Event: Samwell Tarly - Secret Discovery (Political Wins)

29:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam discovers an experimental treatment for Greyscale in a study of rare diseases by Archmaester Pylos. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (rejected)

Archmaester Marwyn makes it clear that this treatment of Greyscale is no secret but that its too dangerous to perform the procedure. Just because Samwell didn't know about the procedure does not make it a secret otherwise every new piece of information he learns from the library would be considered learning a secret -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24 nyan and alicehanners like this
I also dont think this is a secret and sets a dangerous precedent for what a constitutes a secret.This information Sam is getting from the Maesters Section isnt necessarily all secrets. Its not a secret section of the library its just a place trainees cant enter, theres no evidence that there are great secrets in the books. Or that every piece of information in these books are secret. If anything we should disect each piece of info for its merit as a secret.

Marwyn isnt even angry when Sam cites information from the book in the Measters section. He just simply gives sam more information on the topic willingly to inform him more. If this was a secret why is an Archmaester giving even more information about the secret? Also just because a disease is rare it doesnt mean its cure is a secret. The bubonic plague would be considered a rare disease in todays world but is easily cured with penecilin. Theres no evidence to show that curing greyscale is a secret. Its just so dangerous its frowned upon.

Also last episode with the dragonglass cave. Sam is told this already by Stannis in passing willingly. Stannis at that time is Lord of Dragonstone so if anyone is guarding this secret its him and he doesnt guard it. The Lords of Dragonstone before Stannis were Targs and Sam admits the Targs didnt even know what dragon glass was properly used for. Theres no evidence that anyone tried to hide this fact, if anything it shows the people who historically owned this cave had no real use for it or an incentive to keep it hidden. Also i know show is different than books but in the books no one tries to hide this fact either.

In conclusion i think sam should have his points revoked for both of these events. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24
When Stannis tells Shireen the story of healing her he said he called in every Maester, Apothecary and healer to cure her, showing that m there are more than just Maester(apothecaries and healers) also knew the cure to greyscale -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24
I think it's a secret in the sense that it is so rarely known that there is ANY kind of cure, dangerous or otherwise, that even Sam, one of the smartest people on the show, had no idea it existed until he read the book. I would say it isn't only a secret, it's a well guarded secret. Everyone who does not have specialized training, or "clearance" as it were, has no idea that any cure for grayscale exists, dangerous or otherwise. It's basically like he is training to be a CIA agent and so learning national secrets, it definitely is not information available to the general public, it's classified, secret, etc. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2017 Jul 24
It's a secret to Sam. A secret isn't something that nobody knows, it's something that somebody was not meant to know. If Sam is a trainee, and trainees aren't allowed in the section that holds that information, then Sam has discovered that secret. Just because the Archmaester is kind enough and understanding enough to continue a conversation with Sam about something Sam clearly already knows about, that doesn't mean it's not a secret that Sam has discovered. I presume the other Maesters would not have been so kind to respond to Sam the same way. That stems from Sam's relationship with him and is definitely a political skill. -hkeseyan

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2017 Jul 24
As for the dragonglass, that is being treated as a discovered secret by everyone in the show, including by Jon, who is in the presence of Davos, who was on Dragonstone with Stannis. Therefore we should treat it as a discovery as well. If Davos didn't speak up this whole time as Jon's chief advisor while Jon is clearly searching for more dragonglass, we have to assume that the sheer amount of dragonglass on Dragonstone was a mystery. -hkeseyan

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2017 Jul 24
Good points here by everyone. There's a grey area, it's information that the Archmaester hides by omission (and then forbids), and it's new and useful to Samwell. At the same time it's true that this slips into Sam getting secrets for everything new he learns and that's not quite the intention of the category. Generally I'm swayed by the latter arguments and Sam's specials are there for his learning. I'll move this into the submissions section. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24
Due to the precedent of this submission can we get his points taken off for last week as well? -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24
Imo the dragonglass is much more of a "secret", the world and Masters are unaware of its importance, even if they are aware of it as trivia. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24
I think the fact Stannis already willingly told him this. The Targs used them for decoration( wouldnt do that if you were trying to keep a secret). Theres no real evidence of anyone ever trying to guard this information(we agree that just because its in a maester section that doesnt automatically make it a secret). This does not constitute a secret based on the rulebook.

That being said we have both made our points and feel free to score this as you please. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24 alicehanners and nyan like this
Also the Maesters may be unaware of its importance but Sam knew of its importance before he got to the Citadel. The secret in question is whether or not the cave in Dragonstone is a secret -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24

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