Matchup: Lyanna Mormont is tired of your shit vs Khaleesi Me, Now You Don't for Ep 6

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Lyanna Mormont is tired of your shit (delta.childers.smith)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#5	95	86	3	3	3
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#8	12	0	9	3	0
Tyene Sand The youngest of Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She uses daggers and poisons as her weapons.	#44	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#29	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She's into whips.	#41	0	0	0	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#32	0	0	0	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#20	0	0	0	0	0
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and past, and has the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. After having encountered the Three-Eyed Raven and the Night King in the far north, he now flees back south to the Wall.	#17	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		107	86	12	6	3

Khaleesi Me, Now You Don't (edmonsonat)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#2	623	604	9	3	7
Tormund Giantsbane Formerly a lieutenant of Mance Rayder, the King beyond the Wall, Tormund is now the de facto leader of the Wildlings and a reasoned voice in rallying them behind the cause of Jon Snow.	#23	68	50	0	18	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#11	0	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover, but has been left behind in Meereen to govern the city.	#35	0	0	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#14	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#26	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#38	0	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#47	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		691	654	9	21	7

Kills

33:06 (+10) Jon Snow:

After dodging a blow, Jon slices through the White Walker leading the scouting party with Longclaw, shattering it to pieces. (Kill of Named Character)

33:07 (+14) Jon Snow:

7 of the wights in the scouting party disintegrate after Jon kills the White Walker leading them.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

15 more comments - see full thread

It feels incredibly unfair to not count the deaths as kills. Those 7 Wights died as a result of a combat situation, the kills need to be attributed. The surrender analogy does not work, in a normal situation the surrendering soldiers would be taken captive because they are alive and still functioning. In this scenario the wights couldn't be captured because they were destroyed due to Jon's actions, the wight they DID capture can more accurately be seen as a surrender. If anything, this resembles an execution of prisoners, where Jon passed the judgement and swung the sword.

Also I agree that it is unfair to remove the points after a week, where no new arguments were brought up to strengthen the case for removal. -brandonthebigB

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2017 Aug 28 hindsight44 likes this
When soldiers surrender you have gained an asset or at the very least levrage. There is a specific advantage to gaining surrendered soldiers that is not at play here. They were once functional wights that would kill any living thing and now theyre nothing. The rules state that kills are counted regardless of reason. Jon Snows actions directly led those 7 wights dying........again -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 28
Yeah the delay in scoring update is my bad, I've ended up on another spotty-internet week during travel for this one and wasn't able to do these earlier. The summer run for S7 has really caused some conflicts with travel, I'll have to figure out the S8 schedule much better.

I think you guys are right from a scorekeeping purity standpoint. The wights went from soldiers to being dead because of this action, to call it a surrender can work as a stretch but yes, it is a stretch we'd be making to find a way to discount the points. I started thinking about parallel examples, with a very basic kill switch action that causes large numbers of deaths. You might say Bronn igniting the Blackwater Bay wildfire, or a hypothetical Qyburn's little bird igniting the wildfire underneath the Sept of Baelor, and I think most players would readily accept those as valid scores.

Giving it some further thought, I did have that same first impression of "cheapness" as most of the others who initially commented. I think that comes from having such a directly comparable set of kills in the exact same scene - the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, et. al. are busy hacking away at the wights for their measly 1-2 kills each, and then Jon swoops in with an easy 7-kill swing. But it can be fine that some kills are cheaper than others, and while a jackpot scenario may exist in the future with whoever takes down the Night King, it's a much more equitable free-for-all for any character to achieve, unlike say Daenerys' dragon roastings.

Perhaps with better per-league tools, we can again have multiple rulesets for S8 that could include or exclude the wight-follower kills.

Anyhow for this one, I'll go back to the original decision which is to count the 7 as kills. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, emilien.raggi like this

47:17 (+34) Jon Snow:

Jon cuts down 17 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group, up until Daenerys and her dragons arrive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

48:28 (+50) Tormund Giantsbane:

Tormund kills 25 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

51:38 (+604) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and her three dragons ride in to save the day for Jon Snow, Jorah, Tormund, the Hound, and Beric, laying waste to a massive number of wights with their dragonfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

7 more comments - see full thread

There is already a 100 point cap for raw scoring, and for the perspective of a head to head match, dany totaly deserve to win her match for a specific episode where she uses her dragons so 200 or 600 points doesn't make a difference, that's why she is ranked #1 for the draft. Go check the post about dany in episode 4 for more info. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech likes this
I agree with tommy James. There is not point limit on raw scoring. Danerys got 604 points for the dang dragons. The leader of our league is 800+ points ahead of 2nd -playabills

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2017 Aug 24
For this season it'll stay where it is, out of consistency/fairness. But as we approach the endgame of the show, where we may be getting a dragon-roasting every episode or in the majority of episodes, it does become more of a balance issue.

Some of it may take care of itself, as the dragons are now split off to competing allegiances (Viserion for the Night King, and other characters can steal the dragon points if they become a rider). But at most we still end up with 3 characters dominating the field. The dragons themselves could also be made individually draftable.

For Roto this problem takes care of itself - you can spend your likely first round pick on a dragon character, who might instantly put you top 3 in the Kills category, but will give you nothing else but that stat (a common tradeoff, and typically an inefficient one). For the other leagues, perhaps we may consider some alternative drafting options that will make them cost a fairer value (allow draft pick trading, or implement auction/salary cap leagues). Or perhaps a league may selectively ban certain characters from the draft list, or choose their own league-specific nerfs (e.g. all points from this OP character list will be halved or even 1/10th'd). Part of the problem is that people have an assessment that the dragons are somewhere between mildly to extremely OP, and it's hard to come up with a way to compensate for that without pinning the value, so for the site I think everyone will be more satisfied if the leagues/players have the options to set that nerfing value for themselves.

Doing the point cap thing, or coming up with an arbitrary fractional kill is my least preferred option, mostly from a stat-keeping purity standpoint. -nyan

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, alex.pi, Lem Lemoncake, hkeseyan like this

52:39 (+20) Jon Snow:

Jon realizes he is currently only 4th place on the Kills leaderboard, and climbs back down off of Drogon to score 10 more wight kills in garbage time, as all the others wisely get onboard. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:34 (+8) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow cuts down four wights after witnessing Viseron's death, before realizing that trying to cut his way to the Night King for a 1v1 was a terrible idea and that he should really get back to the dragon evac. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

23:27 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rejects Tyrion's proposal that she name an heir.

Tyrion Lannister: "But there are other ways of choosing a successor. The Night's Watch has one method. The Ironborn, for all their many flaws, have another-"
Daenerys: "We will discuss the succession after I wear the crown." (Executive Decision)

33:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow and his crew successfully ambush the White Walker scouting party, killing the leader and capturing the live wight they were looking for. (Victorious Battle)

44:01 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa commands Brienne of Tarth to journey south to King's Landing for the meeting convened to present the White Walker threat, leaving Sansa alone in Winterfell despite her protests.

Brienne: I sworn an oath to protect you and your sister. If I abandon you-"
Sansa: "The trip to King's Landing is long, Lady Brienne, and you won't be travelling on summer roads. The sooner you leave, the better your chances of making it on time." (Executive Decision)

45:10 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys ignores Tyrion's pleas, flying off with her three dragons to rescue Jon Snow and his expedition to capture a wight. "I'm not doing nothing again." (Executive Decision)

61:27 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa goes snooping into Arya's room in an attempt to recover the copy of the raven letter. (Act of Betrayal)

61:57 (+3) Sansa Stark:

While snooping through her room, Sansa discover's Arya's stash of faces. (Secret Discovery)

67:27 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After she rescues Jon Snow's expedition from the Army of the Dead and pledges to fight the war, Jon swallows his pride and agrees to bend the knee.

"Alright, not Dany. How about 'My Queen'? I'd bend the knee, but..." (New Follower/Prisoner)

kiss already ffs -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 23 nyan likes this
? they're both getting a new negative special for warm barfy moments ?_? -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 Lem Lemoncake and hkeseyan like this
Haha, I'd rather they marry already. Give them negative special points for each time we're waiting for one of them to make the first move and it's not happening.
When Jon said "my queen", I first thought it was meant as a proposal, same as with the cavepainting scene - but they keep disappointing me ;( -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 23

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:16 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tormund Giantsbane: "I can breathe again. Down south the air smells like pigshit."
Jon Snow: "You've never been down south."
Tormund: "I've been to Winterfell."
Jon: "That's the North." (Funny Line)

4:25 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Gendry: "How do you live up here? How d'you keep your balls from freezing off?"
Tormund: "You've got to keep moving, that's the secret. Walking's good, fighting's better, fucking's best."
Jon Snow: "There's not a living woman within 100 miles of here."
Tormund, eyeing Gendry: "We have to make do with what we've got." (Funny Line)

5:06 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Jon Snow: "She will only fight beside us if I bend the knee."
Tormund: "You spent too much time with the Free Folk. Now you don't like kneeling." (Witty Insult)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

15:18 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Tormund: "Were your born mean, or you just hate Wildlings?"
Sandor Clegane: "I could not give two shits about Wildlings. Gingers, I hate."
Tormund: "Gingers are beautiful. Kissed by fire." (Funny Line)

15:41 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Sandor Clegane: "You want to suck my dick, is that it?"
Tormund: "Dick?"
Sandor: "Cock."
Tormund: "Ah, dick. I like it." (Funny Line)

16:18 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Sandor Clegane: "You're with Brienne of fucking Tarth?"
Tormund: "Well, not with her yet. But I see the way she looks at me."
Sandor: "How does she look at you? Like she wants to carve you up and eat your liver?"
Tormund: "You do know her." (Funny Line)

16:29 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Tormund: "I want to make babies with her - think of them. Great big monsters. They'd conquer the world." (Funny Line)

submitted by Laxis (approved!)

23:47 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Tyrion Lannister: "I'm trying to serve you by planning for the long term."
Daenerys: "Perhaps if you'd planned for the short term, we wouldn't have lost Dorne and Highgarden." (Witty Insult)

29:15 (+3) Sansa Stark:

on the Northern lords: "Yes, they turned their backs on Jon when it was time to retake Winterfell, and then they named him their King, and now they're ready to turn their backs on him again. How far would you trust men like that? They're all bloody wind vanes." (Witty Insult)

Deaths

54:12 (+5) Daenerys Targaryen:

Viserion slumps into the icy depths of the lake after having been fatally struck by an ice javelin from the Night King. (Death)

69:10 (+2) Daenerys Targaryen:

Viseron's body is dragged back out from under the ice lake by a chain gang of wights. (Dead Body Appearance)

Special

54:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow drops Longclaw on the frozen ice sheet after he is tackled under water by the wights during the dragon evacuation. (Special)

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