Matchup: Sergeant Hodor's Lonely Hearts Club Band vs Jared's team for Ep 6

Sergeant Hodor's Lonely Hearts Club Band (applecorped)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and recently returns from a mission to Dorne to rescue his daughter/niece, Myrcella Baratheon.	#4	32	10	6	6	0	10	0
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#21	15	0	15	0	0	0	0
Walder Frey The elderly Lord of the Twins and now Lord of Riverrun after his betrayal of Robb Stark and the Northern forces.	#45	14	0	3	6	5	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker. He journeys south to begin his training as a Maester to replace the aging Maester Aemon.	#9	9	0	6	3	0	0	0
Doran Martell The head of House Martell of Dorne, and elder brother of Prince Oberyn Martell.	#40	1	0	0	0	0	0	1
Areo Hotah The personal bodyguard for Doran Martell.	#57	1	0	0	0	0	0	1
Euron Greyjoy An uncle to Theon Greyjoy, Euron is an infamous pirate who has terrorized seas all around the world. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#52	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Davos Seaworth Ser Davos is a knight serving Stannis Baratheon, and one of his most trusted advisors. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#33	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
High Septon of the Faith (S3) The High Septon is formerly the leader of the Faith of the Seven. He was disgraced after the arrival of the Sparrows, and his position was stripped by Cersei and given to the High Sparrow.	#69	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tommen Baratheon The King of the Seven Kingdoms after the assassination of his brother, Joffrey Baratheon. He is young and highly impressionable to the various influences in King's Landing that seek to control him.	#28	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment. He returned to her service during a revolt in the fighting pits of Meereen, and now travels with Daario Naharis to rescue Daenerys, who has disappeared along with one of her dragons, Drogon.	#16	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#64	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		72	10	30	15	5	10	2

Jared's team (jaredjb2)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#14	4	0	0	1	3
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	#35	3	0	3	0	0
Daenerys Targaryen The last royal member of the Targaryen dynasty, Daenerys and her three dragons have carved out a revolutionary empire in the east, liberating several slave cities and acquiring an army of Unsullied warriors. Her recent rule over the slave city of Meereen has been met with strife, however, and she currently finds herself lost with her largest dragon, Drogon, in Dothraki territory.	#2	3	3	0	0	0
Khal Forzo A Dothraki Khal	#71	1	0	0	1	0
Khal Rhalko A Dothraki Khal	#26	1	0	0	1	0
Child of the Forest Another Child of the Forest who is encountered far beyond the Wall.	#59	1	0	0	1	0
Mace Tyrell The head of House Tyrell and Lord of Highgarden. He is the father of Loras and Margaery. While bumbling and appearing incompetent, he heads a powerful House and serves as both Master of Ships and Master of Coin on King Tommen Baratheon's Small Council.	#38	0	0	0	0	0
Grand Maester Pycelle The Grand Maester of the Seven Kingdoms. Pycelle is highly educated and serves as an advisor to the King.	#50	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, bannermen to the Lannisters. He defeated Prince Oberyn Martell in a trial by combat for Tyrion Lannister's role in King Joffrey's death, although he was gravely injured in the fight. He appears to have recovered (in some form) under Grand Maester Qyburn's care, and returns to serve as a member of the Kingsguard.	#11	0	0	0	0	0
Qhono A Dothraki bloodrider	#62	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#23	0	0	0	0	0
Loras Tyrell The heir to Highgarden and regarded as one of the most skilled knights in Westeros. He is the brother of Margaery Tyrell. He is currently imprisoned by the High Sparrow for his alleged homosexual affairs with Olyvar, the brothel owner.	#47	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		13	3	3	4	3

Kills

2:50 (+10) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime slays the Mad King Aerys II during one of Bran's flashback visions. (Kill of Named Character)

8 more comments - see full thread

I guess we did count Ned killing Arthur Dayne in the other flashback right? Even though that had been discussed before in the series, points weren't awarded because we never saw it until the flashback. I even drafted a character who I think will die in a flashback later this season, so I don't know why I initially had a problem with it. More kills! More points! -wpearsal

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2016 Jun 1
Everything during Bran's flashbacks have counted (Ned's Tower of Joy scene, mainly). Everything happening in flashbacks will count, as long as it's new material (e.g. flashback to Ned's execution doesn't count, since we already saw it in S1). -nyan

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2016 Jun 1 kailin, sanford, emilien.raggi, moonbaseu92 like this
I have to contest Jamie's intercourse points. Does a kissing scene now count as intercourse? Just wondering if we are now simply assuming something happens even if we don't see it on screen... -Tose

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2016 Jun 3

Political Wins

2:50 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime stabs the Mad King Aerys II in the back during one of Bran's flashback visions. (Act of Betrayal)

10:24 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow convinces King Tommen to allow Margaery to proceed with her Walk of Atonement.
Tommen: "Is there no other way? ... It just seems very dangerous."
High Sparrow: "She'll be protected the entire way. The Faith Militant are very stern with those who overstep their bounds." (Convincing Argument)

23:27 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals his father's Valyrian steel sword, Heartsbane, from above the family mantlepiece.
Gilly: "Sam. That's your father's sword."
Sam: "It's my family's sword."
Gilly: "Sam. Won't he come for it?"
Sam: "He can bloody well try." (New Weapon)

23:30 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

On his last night in Horn Hill, Samwell steals his father's Valyrian steel sword, Heartsbane, from above the family mantlepiece.
Gilly: "Sam. That's your father's sword."
Sam: "It's my family's sword."
Gilly: "Sam. Won't he come for it?"
Sam: "He can bloody well try." (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by emilien.raggi (approved!)

Well, he actually changed his allegiance when entering the Night's Watch but the theft should still be considered some kind of betrayal, as Lord Randyll goes on about how Sam has no right to Heartsbane during the family reunion dinner. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1
Actually, he rather clarifies that Sam _does_ have a right to it, but that intends to defy that right. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 2
True! Still, I feel this should somehow be counted as an act of betrayal.
Although, diving a little deeper into Westerosi inheritance customs: That Sam cannot inherit anything, be it Randyll's title, the castle, the weapon or anything else, has become self-evident for every Westerosi, the moment Sam joined the Night's Watch. This is an essential part of NW membership. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 2
But well.. the lore/background shouldn't have such an importance. What counts is the depicition of events in the series, I'd say. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 2
just because Sam doesn't have a right to the sword doesn't mean its not a betrayal. It is his family, allegiance has nothing to do with inheritance. -cmwalken15

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2016 Jun 2
he gave up his family name though when he took the black -as38

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2016 Jun 2

30:28 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow announces Margaery's crimes to the masses gathered at the Sept of Baelor. "Rich or poor, noble or common, if we sin, we must atone. Margaery of House Tyrell came to us a sinner. She stood before the gods in the holy sept and lied. She turned a blind eye to her brother's sins. She disgraced her house, her King, and herself." (Politics Special)

8 more comments - see full thread

What about everytime he deescalates a confrontation? He's done that basically every episode. -julian.aronowitz

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2016 Jun 1
Proposition for new Sparrow special, using others who have multiple triggers as a template:
+1 each time the High Sparrow publicly outs a draftable character's sins or crimes
+1 each time he deescalates an impending violent conflict
+1 each time he makes specific reference to his past as a cobbler, or his current barefootedness. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 1 as38, julian.aronowitz, Ser Vincent, nyan like this
I think it's definitely good to count this even if he has already publicly outed Margaery as a sinner. It's exactely this obnoxious way of using every situation to make every last person aware of the sinner that is his speciality. It's like Daenerys repeating her titles over and over again and I'm sure there are more examples.
I assume the repetition came up here because of the question if kills that have already been shown should count if they reappear in Bran's visions? There I would disagree, but to me these are two entirely different things. It might help to step out of the scoring framework for an instant and think about how you experience these different acts while watching the episodes (without having the fantasy league in mind :D).

Maybe, it might also help to think in terms of plot and story. A kill happens once in the story, but the plot may deliver information about that at another time within the narrative - or even multiple times. The High Sparrow's multiple announcements do actually happen that often. Furthermore, it's not about revealing a secret, it's the act of denouncing he likes so much :)

At least that's my understanding of the way this game works, hah. Correct me if I'm wrong :o -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1

36:49 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow picks up an ownership stake in King's Landing after announcing a joint venture with Tommen Baratheon to make the Seven Kingdoms great again.
High Sparrow: "Together we announce a new age of harmony. A holy alliance between the Crown and the Faith."
Tommen: "The Crown and the Faith are the twin pillars upon which the world rests. Together we will restore the Seven Kingdoms to glory." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

submitted by as38 (approved!)

Definitely a huge coup for him this episode. Aside from getting Margaery/Tommen on his side, it was hard to pinpoint something concrete for this new "holy alliance", e.g. did he get promoted to a Pope Sparrow, or is he now effectively in control of King's Landing as you say (technically it should still be Tommen). -nyan

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2016 Jun 1
i think it is both tommen and the high sparrow in control of kings landing, the crown and the faith, tommen didnt lose kings landing he merely entered a joint venture with the high sparrow for shared control -as38

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2016 Jun 1 nyan likes this
Tommen didn't lose titular control over King's Landing (and indeed the Seven Kingdoms), but the High Sparrow is certainly going to take advantage of Tommen coming under his metaphorical wing. So to speak. Definitely a gain for the High Sparrow, but not a loss for Tommen per se. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 1 as38 likes this

36:52 (+6) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow announces the latest high-profile devotees to sign onto Team Sparrow, in a joint press conference with Tommen Baratheon and Margaery Tyrell.

"Queen Margaery has already atoned for her sins by bringing another into the true light of the Seven. Together we announce a new age of harmony. A holy alliance between the Crown and the Faith." (New Follower/Prisoner)

41:15 (+3) Walder Frey:

Walder overrules his sons, Lothar and Black Walder, ordering them to take back Riverrun despite their strategic doubts. (Executive Decision)

41:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Despite being demoted out of the Kingsguard, Jaime is assigned a new role as head of the Lannister armies sent to deal with the Blackfish in the Riverlands. "I'm being sent to deal with the Blackfish. Apparently Walder Frey can't manage it on his own because he's 400 years old. Sent me with an army to the Riverlands and a siege that could last months." (New Title)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

48:41 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After burning down the Vaes Dothrak gym, Daenerys earns the appropriate badge to regain control over Drogon, riding him in dramatic fashion over her crowd of Dothraki followers. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by Lem Lemoncake (approved!)

9 more comments - see full thread

Anyway, the scene was kinda poorly scripted; but just the point of flying in there on a fucking huge dragon and shouting epic shit at people with blades in their hands was such an incredibly badass move that she definitely needed to get points for it, no matter what :D I know it's rather impossible to score, but Dany's special should be "performing acts of exceptional badassery/awesomeness" -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1
Love this description! -dneanover

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2016 Jun 1 nyan likes this
Judging from his facial expression, this probably wasn't exactely the same thing Daaribro had in mind when talking about "riding the dragon" a few episodes ago :o -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1 nyan likes this

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

6:29 (+3) Gilly:

to Sam: "You're nervous. You're a nervous talker. [prolonged silence] ... That's not any better being a nervous mute." (Witty Insult)

7:24 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam: "I told them I met you in the North."
Gilly: "Did you tell them how far north?"
Sam: "Well, it wasn't a very large piece of parchment..." (Funny Line)

35:18 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

to High Sparrow: "You've already insulted one great house. It won't happen twice. Every last sparrow will die before Margaery Tyrell walks down that street." (Threat)

39:10 (+3) Walder Frey:

to his sons: "You've lost it? ... It's a castle, not a bloody sheep. Presumably you still know where it is." (Witty Insult)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

40:23 (+3) Walder Frey:

"All across the Riverlands right down to King's Landing, they're laughing at us. I hear it in my sleep! I'm not dead yet, unfortunately for you. And I'll not leave this world until they all choke on that laughter." (Threat)

41:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

"I'm being sent to deal with the Blackfish. Apparently Walder Frey can't manage it on his own because he's 400 years old." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

40:10 (+5) Walder Frey:

Walder Frey takes a sip of wine while listening to excuses from his useless sons, Lothar and Black Walder. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

Acts of Intercourse

43:08 (+10) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime and Cersei get it on after hot and heavy dirty talk about the power of House Lannister and destroying their enemies. "They've made us both stronger, all of them. They have no idea how strong we are. No idea what we're going to do to them. We've always been together. We'll always be together." (Act of Intercourse)

10 more comments - see full thread

Hopefully this will become clearer when I can make a detailed breakdown for each scoring event. The sex category gets 1 pt EACH for: sex itself (incl. implied), each boob, butts, frontal nudity. So that is why Daenerys temple-burning scene gets points for the nudity, even though no sex happened: http://fantasora.com/event/2356

Earlier this season we defined direct contact with reproductive organs as the threshold for explicit sex: http://fantasora.com/event/2401

For implicit sex, we've never defined really defined it, so that's what this discussion is about.

Here's an idea that we could add for Ruleset 4.0: we can further break up scoring and add an additional point for on-screen gettin' it in. So this and other implied scenes would only count 1pt, Osha's would only be 1pt, Sam's "Oh.. oh.. oh my" with Gilly would get 2 pts - 1 for sex and 1 for penetration. -nyan

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2016 Jun 2 Ser Vincent likes this
I agree that there should be a sub-point system of "intercourse". Because if we are now simply assuming that the twins engaged in intercourse off camera, we are opening up the point system to a number of assumed acts of whatever (intercourse related, kill related, wine related). For example, we didn't see Sam drink any wine during the dinning scene. But isn't it safe to say that he probably drank wine prior or during the course of his meal? -Tose

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2016 Jun 3
The criteria for each category is different, and there is some balance in mind when deciding how strict they are. "Cups on the table" would be a close equivalent to "making out in a private room", but as @Tose says we would start giving away way too many wine points (these wine points would also feel "cheap" compared to characters who are doing actual on-screen drinking). For sex, the easier implied criteria has been fine since explicit sex scenes are fairly rare on the show. -nyan

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2016 Jun 3 Laxis likes this

Deaths

+1 for Bran Stark, +1 for Doran Martell, +1 for Areo Hotah, +1 for Khal Rhalko, +1 for Khal Forzo, +1 for Child of the Forest

Special

2:20 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran progresses through a series of flashback visions as Meera drags him throw the snow. (Special)

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