Matchup: The Usurpers vs Where the Wildlings Are for Ep 10

The Usurpers (drico2424)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#2	627	598	9	6	5	0	9
Walder Frey The elderly Lord of the Twins and now Lord of Riverrun after his betrayal of Robb Stark and the Northern forces.	#38	26	0	6	0	10	10	0
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#50	19	10	9	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, bannermen to the Lannisters. He defeated Prince Oberyn Martell in a trial by combat for Tyrion Lannister's role in King Joffrey's death, although he was gravely injured in the fight. He appears to have recovered (in some form) under Grand Maester Qyburn's care, and returns to serve as a member of the Kingsguard.	#34	5	5	0	0	0	0	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys controls a vast network of spies. After smuggling Tyrion Lannister to Essos, he reveals himself as a supporter of Daenerys Targaryen's claim to the Iron Throne. In Daenerys' absence, he serves with Tyrion Lannister and presides over the rule of Meereen.	#18	3	0	3	0	0	0	0
Benjen Stark First Ranger of the Night's Watch - in S1 he disappeared on a ranging north of the Wall and his whereabouts since then are unknown.	-	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Brynden Tully (Blackfish) Known as the Blackfish, Brynden is the uncle of Catelyn Stark and Edmure Tully. He escaped the events of the Red Wedding, but his whereabouts are unknown.	-	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Davos Seaworth Ser Davos is a knight serving Stannis Baratheon, and one of his most trusted advisors. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#15	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		682	613	27	6	15	12	9

Where the Wildlings Are (jasonl55551)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Free-spirited and rebellious, Arya escaped the war-ravaged Westeros and currently resides in Braavos, where she trains under the face-changing assassin Jaqen H'ghar in the House of Black and White.	#7	30	30	0	0	0	0
Tommen Baratheon The King of the Seven Kingdoms after the assassination of his brother, Joffrey Baratheon. He is young and highly impressionable to the various influences in King's Landing that seek to control him.	#23	20	10	0	0	0	10
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover.	#26	8	0	3	0	5	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. Sansa has spent many of her past years as prisoner to the Lannisters and more recently, House Bolton, the new Warden of the North. Currently she is married to Ramsay, the heir of House Bolton, who keeps her imprisoned in Winterfell and tortures her sadistically. During the Bolton battle against Stannis Baratheon's forces, Sansa escapes over the Winterfell walls with the help of Theon Greyjoy, and the two make their way as far from the Boltons as possible. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#10	6	0	3	3	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#42	6	0	0	6	0	0
Rickon Stark The youngest of the Stark children. He splits off from Bran and travels with Osha to the Last Hearth, seat of House Umber.	#58	2	0	0	0	0	2
Trystane Martell Prince Doran Martell's son, and heir to Dorne. He is betrothed to Myrcella Baratheon, and accompanies her back to King's Landing to serve on the Small Council.	#39	1	0	0	0	0	1
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although Petyr Baelish serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#55	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		73	40	6	9	5	13

Kills

13:02 (+10) Qyburn:

After luring Pycelle to his laboratory, Qyburn's Little Birds converge and stab the Grand Maester to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Kill of Named Character)

Pycelle fights back and the little birds overwhelm him. Does this qualify as unskilled? -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28
I was thinking about this too. I think this is one of the few cases of the "executing a prisoner" scenario where the prisoner wasn't completely tied up and helpless, even if he was old, decrepit, and unarmed. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm good with it either way. Sadly, killing Pycelle probably falls beneath the floor of what qualifies as "skill" -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28 jedjackoway likes this
And really, by the time Qyburn lured him to the basement laboratory, the deed was done. No way was Pycelle was making it back up those stairs. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28

17:14 (+60) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. The High Sparrow, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, and Margaery Tyrell perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

115 more comments - see full thread

Part 2: So here's what we'll do.

Camp A will be a "default", as I think it's the general impression most viewers had on watching the scene, if they didn't dive into the nitty-gritty of scoring criteria. All of the leagues currently on Ruleset 3.1 and 4.0, Cersei will keep all the kill points.

For Camp B, all of the "reasonable split" scores will be added (Lem, Ramsay, Jordaario), under new Rulesets called 3.1b and 4.0b. These are the same as the existing Rulesets, just with these kill points added. Consider this a branch of the rules, enabling Leagues to self-determine which interpretation of the scoring criteria they want to apply.

I'll also be developing a new Ruleset 5.0 for the rewatches and S7 - it'll include the removal of commanded kills and the addition of some new political scoring categories to address some of the events that have felt like they weren't properly credited this season. The exact details need to be fine-tuned (the rewatches will be good practice), but ultimately it should address each of this season's controversial scores in a way that's unambiguous and properly rewarding for the magnitude of the characters' actions on the show.

At the end of this discussion, I personally fell into Camp C ("nothing counts"). However my read on that is that most players, in their gut, wanted the scoring to be Camp A or Camp B, but ended up supporting the strictness of Camp C because the other options create some hard-to-reconcile precedents. As a scorekeeper, there's some wariness that both Ruleset 4.0 and 4.0b will now be slightly broken in a "crap, this is going to be a mess for some future S7 events that I can imagine happening" sense.

The 5.0 revision of the rules should be the answer to that concern - we won't have to worry about these controversial 4.0/4.0b scores establishing bad precedents for future scoring, because we'll be using a completely new Ruleset 5.0 by then. In that sense, both of these bends for Camp A and Camp B might be considered do-right scores for the popular player sentiment on who deserves points, in a way that's safely not precedent-setting for the future Ruleset 5.0.

@jedjackoway and @bookworm13457 were the two main commenters that seemed to subscribe to Camp C without a personal leaning towards A or B. Hopefully your concerns were precedent-based like mine, and using A or B will be acceptable for your S6 scores (if not, I can always add in 3.1c/4.0c rulesets as well).

So in summary, this gives all leagues a Ruleset choice that fits with their preferred scoring style, and gives us a path forward to avoid this controversy in the future.

Hopefully this is a happy resolution for everyone playing this season. I'm off to count up some villagers and arrowed corpses. -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 bookworm13457, twalters, righteous like this
Thanks for all of your hard work @Nyan. I do not envy your task of counting the soldiers kill in the Battle of the Bastards. Looking forward to 1-2 more seasons of this! -bookworm13457

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2016 Jul 1 nyan, righteous, twalters, jedjackoway, 2 others like this
The above changes are now live! Check your league settings for the Ruleset 3.1b scoring option. (ended up skipping on 4.0b as it turns out hardly any leagues are on it - of the active commenters, only @Lem Lemoncake used it).

If you happen to be in a Public League and would like switch it do a different ruleset, just let me know directly on FB/email - I'll switch these with preference going to the desired Ruleset of players who have been active in the scoring discussions.

For those curious, here's are those 3.1b events (screenshots of the villagers count and every. freaking. arrow. death.):

Ramsay volleys (36 soldiers and horseys): http://fantasora.com/event/2927
Lem Lemoncloak's kill commands (32 villagers): http://fantasora.com/event/3056
Gatins 1/7th share of 32 villager kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3062
Qyburn 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3067
Cersei 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3066 -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 rajatnigam, bookworm13457, righteous, twalters like this

17:15 (+452) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. Along with the High Sparrow, Small Council, and the Tyrell royal family, 226 other members of the audience perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I finally counted them all. Here's the wide shot! https://imgur.com/ft412aT -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm keeping my arguments in the other thread for simplicity's sake. But why is this not going to Qyburn as well? -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
There's no confirmation that Qyburn did this however we do know that Cersei did. -klov3r

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2016 Jun 28
Just saw the "inside episodes 9&10" on HBO and they stated they used 287 extras for the scene. -alexander.hilton91

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2016 Jun 29 nyan and bookworm13457 like this
Stephanie on the FB page brought this up as well - I think we'll keep the criteria as just the on-screen body count, as it's easily scorable and we won't always have this kind of behind-the-scenes info available. -nyan

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2016 Jun 29

17:30 (+4) Cersei Lannister:

Two King's Landing pedestrians are consumed in the Sept of Baelor wildfire explosion. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:31 (+76) Cersei Lannister:

38 pedestrians in the square outside the Sept of Baelor are overrun as the explosion of wildfire spills outward onto the streets of King's Landing. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:36 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

A King's Landing pedestrian is crushed by a bell jettisoned from the explosion at the Sept of Baelor. Two other pedestrians are also destroyed as the alley becomes engulfed in wildfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

22:00 (+5) Gregor Clegane (The Mountain):

Septa Unella screams in agony as Cersei leaves Gregor Clegane to slowly torture her.
Cersei: "Now? Today? You're not going to die today. You're not going to die for quite a while." (Major Injury of Named Character)

22:19 (+10) Tommen Baratheon:

After witnessing the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor, Tommen removes his crown and leaps from the balcony to his death. (Kill of Named Character)

48:52 (+20) Arya Stark:

Arya serves Walder Frey pies stuffed with meat from his own sons, Black Walder and Lothar Frey.

Walder Frey: "Where are my damn moron sons? Black Walder and Lothar promised to be here by midday."
Arya: "But they're already here, my Lord... Here, my Lord... They weren't easy to carve." (Kill of Named Character)

49:06 (+10) Arya Stark:

After serving him a meat pie cooked from his own sons, Arya slits the throat of Walder Frey. "My name is Arya Stark. I want you to know that. The last thing you're ever going to see is a Stark smiling down at you as you die." (Kill of Named Character)

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Littlefinger pledges his support of House Stark to Sansa Stark. "News of this battle will spread quickly through the Seven Kingdoms. I've declared for House Stark for all to hear." (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by xdwxrd (approved!)

13:02 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn lures Grand Maester Pycelle to his laboratory on false pretenses, and then sends his little birds to stab him to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

17:14 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn's "More. Much more." report to Cersei in S6E8 is revealed to be his discovery of the barrels of wildfire buried beneath King's Landing, as Lancel Lannister discovers a cache set to trigger an explosion during the Trial by Seven at the Sept of Baelor. (Secret Discovery)

17:18 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei destroys the Sept of Baelor in an explosion of wildfire, killing most of the Tyrell royal family and the King's Small Council. (Act of Betrayal)

Eh, really? She all but declared herself accountable to no one when talking to Grandma Tyrell.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
One of the conditions of her release from imprisonment was that she would stand trial later. Though she swore that she would she decided to skip her court date to watch some fireworks. -jimwangerin

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2016 Jun 28
It seemed like Cersei and the Small Council had reached a sort of detente when we last left off, after they agreed on Jaime's plan to march the Tyrell army in. Maybe they didn't trust her 100%, but certainly none of them expected she would outright murder them. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin likes this

18:22 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes Septa Unella prisoner, tying her down to a table as she tortures her. "Confess. It felt good. Beating me, starving me, frightening me, humiliating me. You didn't do it because you cared about my atonement. You did it because it felt good. ... I killed your High Sparrow, and all his little sparrows ... because it felt good to watch them burn. It felt good to imagine their shock and their pain. No thought has ever given me greater joy." (New Follower/Prisoner)

22:30 (+3) Walder Frey:

Ownership of Riverrun transfers back to Walder Frey after the Lannister army helps to retake it from the Blackfish.
Walder Frey: "Riverrun belonged to House Tully for a thousand years. Now it's mine. What do you call that? Victory." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

24:44 (+3) Walder Frey:

Walder Frey re-claims Edmure Tully as his prisoner. "Edmure is back in a cell. Can't go killing my son by law. It wouldn't be right. Give the family a bad name." (New Follower/Prisoner)

43:11 (+3) Daario Naharis :

Daario reluctantly accepts his assignment to be left behind in Essos as ruler of Meereen.
Daario: "You'll get that throne you want so badly, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness. I pity the lords of Westeros. They have no idea what's coming for them." (New Title)

63:11 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn: "I now proclaim Cersei of the House Lannister, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms. Long may she reign." (New Title)

63:33 (+3) Qyburn:

At Cersei Lannister's coronation to the Iron Throne, Qyburn wears the pin to signify his new title as Hand of the Queen. (New Title)

submitted by twalters (approved!)

66:01 (+3) Varys:

Varys returns from his diplomatic mission to Dorne, apparently successful at recruiting House Tyrell and the Sand Snakes to support Daenerys and lend her use of their navies. (Convincing Argument)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

21:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Septa Unella: "This is Ser Gregor Clegane. He's quiet, too. Your Gods have forsaken you. This is your god now."
(Threat)

Is this really a threat, she's kinda just telling her whats up, not threatening something will happen if something else happens. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 alicehanners likes this
Just 'cause it's flowery doesn't make this a good threat.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin and jedjackoway like this
If I was strapped to a board, and Cersei introduced her giant of a bodyguard to me as my "new god", I'd feel pretty threatened. -marcelcdn

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2016 Jun 28 nyan, bookworm13457, wynnch, kayeexau like this
I feel threatened by a lot of things all the time. Doesn't mean they threatened me. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 29

21:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

as she locks Septa Unella in with Gregor Clegane: "Shame. Shame. Shame." (Witty Insult)

39:13 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

"Obara. You look like an angry little boy. Don't presume to tell me what I need." (Witty Insult)

39:22 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

"Do shut up, dear. *turns to Tyene Sand* Anything from you? *Tyene begins to speak* No? Good. Let the grown women speak." (Witty Insult)

51:28 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Petyr Baelish: "Every time I'm faced with a decision, I close my eyes and see the same picture. Whenever I consider an action, I ask myself will this action help to make this picture a reality? ... A picture of me on the Iron Throne... and you by my side."
Sansa: "It's a pretty picture." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

17:51 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks as she watches the wildfire explosion engulf the Sept of Baelor from the safety of her chambers in the Red Keep. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

24:53 (+5) Walder Frey:

Walder drinks from his cup after sitting down to chat with Jaime during the Frey-Lannister feast to celebrate the retaking of Riverrun. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

43:32 (+5) Daario Naharis :

Daario takes a drink after accepting his assignment to stay behind in Meereen. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

47:33 (+5) Walder Frey:

Walder drinks from his chalice while waiting for his sons to arrive for lunch. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

22:19 (+10) Tommen Baratheon:

After witnessing the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor, Tommen removes his crown and leaps from the balcony to his death. (Death)

26:42 (+0) Tommen Baratheon:

Tommen's shrouded body is presented to Cersei. "He should be with his grandfather, his brother, his sister. Burn him and bury his ashes where the Sept once stood." (Dead Body Appearance)

49:35 (+10) Walder Frey:

After being served a meat pie baked from his own sons, Walder Frey has his throat slit by Arya Stark in the very same room where he orchestrated the betrayal of Robb and Catelyn Stark. "My name is Arya Stark. I want you to know that. The last thing you're ever going to see is a Stark smiling down at you as you die." (Death)

+1 for Benjen Stark, +1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Brynden Tully (Blackfish), +1 for Trystane Martell

Special

10:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours herself a glass of wine while observing the events at the Sept of Baelor from afar. (Special)

18:15 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out her glass of wine over Septa Unella's face as she is bound to a table. "Confess." (Special)

18:32 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

After emptying her glass, Cersei returns to pour out an entire pitcher of wine over Septa Unella's face as she tortures her. (Special)

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