Matchup: Dany's got 99 problems and Jorah aint one vs Lady MelisAndrews for Ep 5

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Dany's got 99 problems and Jorah aint one (brookebenninger)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
Child of the Forest Another Child of the Forest who is encountered far beyond the Wall.	#67	26	16	0	0	10	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. Sansa has spent many of her past years as prisoner to the Lannisters and more recently, House Bolton, the new Warden of the North. Currently she is married to Ramsay, the heir of House Bolton, who keeps her imprisoned in Winterfell and tortures her sadistically. During the Bolton battle against Stannis Baratheon's forces, Sansa escapes over the Winterfell walls with the help of Theon Greyjoy, and the two make their way as far from the Boltons as possible. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#7	9	0	3	6	0	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys controls a vast network of spies. After smuggling Tyrion Lannister to Essos, he reveals himself as a supporter of Daenerys Targaryen's claim to the Iron Throne. In Daenerys' absence, he serves with Tyrion Lannister and presides over the rule of Meereen.	#19	3	0	0	0	0	3
Osha A wildling woman who serves the Starks. She splits off from Bran's group and travels with Rickon.	#54	1	0	0	0	1	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He recently accompanied Jaime Lannister on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Dorne to rescue the Princeess Myrcella Baratheon.	#18	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#55	0	0	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#42	0	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#30	0	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#31	0	0	0	0	0	0
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Free-spirited and rebellious, Arya escaped the war-ravaged Westeros and currently resides in Braavos, where she trains under the face-changing assassin Jaqen H'ghar in the House of Black and White.	#6	0	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She wields a whip.	#43	0	0	0	0	0	0
Lem Lemoncloak A leader of a group of outlaws in the Riverlands.	#66	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		39	16	3	6	11	3

Lady MelisAndrews (andrewsbryant2)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Deaths	Special
Leaf A member of the Children of the Forest. She leads Bran and his companions to cave of the Three-eyed Raven.	#58	110	97	3	10	0
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#10	53	19	9	10	15
The Waif A disciple in the House of Black & White. Her real identity is unknown, as she is one of the many identities used by the Faceless Men in their work.	#63	2	2	0	0	0
Alliser Thorne A former master-of-arms and acting Commander of the Night's Watch, Thorne narrowly lost the Lord Commander choosing to Jon Snow in S5. He later led a mutiny of disgruntled Night's Watch members against Jon Snow, stabbing and leaving him for dead.	#27	1	0	0	1	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#34	0	0	0	0	0
Loras Tyrell The heir to Highgarden and regarded as one of the most skilled knights in Westeros. He is the brother of Margaery Tyrell. He is currently imprisoned by the High Sparrow for his alleged homosexual affairs with Olyvar, the brothel owner.	#46	0	0	0	0	0
Mace Tyrell The head of House Tyrell and Lord of Highgarden. He is the father of Loras and Margaery. While bumbling and appearing incompetent, he heads a powerful House and serves as both Master of Ships and Master of Coin on King Tommen Baratheon's Small Council.	#51	0	0	0	0	0
Melessa Tarly Samwell's mother.	#70	0	0	0	0	0
Jon Snow The bastard son of Ned Stark, and the current Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After guiding the Wildlings to safety in the aftermath of the Battle of Castle Black and the attack on Hardhome, he was betrayed by a mutiny of the Night's Watch, and left for dead in the snow.	#15	0	0	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#3	0	0	0	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	#39	0	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover.	#22	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		166	118	12	21	15

Kills

7:56 (+2) The Waif:

A weaponless Waif still manages to knock out Arya with a 4-stroke uppercut combo. "You'll never be one of us, Lady Stark." (Minor Injury of Named Character)

point for insult too? -benjaminblais

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2016 May 23
A man would certainly hope that a girl wouldn't see "Lady Stark" as an insult. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 23 Lem Lemoncake and nsimmonds like this
Definitely an insult if a girl is supposed to be no one -elise.gwen.morgan

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2016 May 23 jedjackoway and nsimmonds like this
I vote insult! -skywalkerdude

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2016 May 24 jmgol06 likes this
Everyone knows its bad form to add insult to injury! -drbowersox

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2016 May 31
If a girl had had good form, she might have not dropped her quarterstaff. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 31 nyan likes this

17:03 (+5) Leaf:

In a vision of the very distant past, Leaf plunges a shard dragonglass through the chest of a man tied to a Weirwood tree, creating one of the first White Walkers. (Major Injury of Named Character)

47:51 (+4) Leaf:

Leaf throws the first magical hand grenade, destroying two wights. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

47:55 (+8) Child of the Forest:

The bow-wielding Child of the Forest kills 4 wights with the magic hand grenades as the White Walkers and their horde march onto the entrance of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

49:26 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer leaps onto the second wight just before it attacks Meera Reed. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

49:37 (+2) Leaf:

Leaf stabs the upside down spidey-wight through the eye. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

49:45 (+8) Child of the Forest:

The bow-wielding Child of the forest kills 4 wights that crawl through the weirwood root system into the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

51:10 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer dives into the crowd of wights as Bran and company make their escape out of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. He lands on one wight but is quickly cut down by the horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I don't think we actually see Summer kill any wights. -tbaum9842

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2016 May 23 nyan and ddenault85 like this
:( :( :( -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23
Shouldn't we get credit for Summer's death too? -jamesrscottjr81

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2016 May 23
Bar is set fairly low for fights with henchmen/redshirts. From the rulebook spec: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes." -nyan

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2016 May 23
Summer's death counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/2461 -nyan

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2016 May 23

52:46 (+76) Leaf:

Leaf sacrifices herself to detonate the magical hand grenade, engulfing a large horde of wights in the cavern tunnels and giving Meera, Hodor, and Bran more time to escape. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

11 more comments - see full thread

I just did a rewatch and paused it at this part to try to count, and at least on my computer screen I couldn't do it. It was just a mass of zombies that all flowed together. Definitely seemed more than thirty from what I could count, but it's hard to say how many she actually took out. Maybe someone with higher resolution can see better. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 24
Yea I really like the idea of letting characters like drogon just getting insane kil counts, Im actaully really looking forward to it lol. -cmwalken15

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2016 May 24 taylorreneegoodrich likes this
Alrighty.. here was my attempt at counting them. Rewatching the scene in motion (vs. still), you can get a sense of the motion of bobbing heads/limbs and sort of differentiate each one. Here's the best attempt I could muster, which tallied up to 38 distinguishable, on-screen wights: http://imgur.com/EFuhhWS -nyan

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2016 May 24

52:46 (+10) Leaf:

Leaf sacrifices detonates the magical hand grenade in the narrow cavern tunnel, engulfing herself with a large horde of wights and allowing Meera, Hodor, and Bran more time to escape. (Kill of Named Character)

53:44 (+5) Bran Stark:

Bran mentally debilitates a young Wylas by warging into him, offering him a glimpse of his future demise at the Door. (Major Injury of Named Character)

55:15 (+10) Bran Stark:

While warged in, Bran forces Hodor to hold the Door against the horde of wights as he and Meera make their escape, sacrificing him in the process. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

@Lem Bran only half-consciously controlling the Hodors sounds like a good argument for excluding it as a betrayal. It's ambiguous even to what extent Bran is aware of how he is controlling things (both in past vision and real world), and thus it's hard to say he betrayed anyone in his subconscious (intent should matter for betrayals, else klutzy chars like Podrick would be "betraying" friends with their screwups all the time). -nyan

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2016 May 26
Really good perspectives you both brought up about the kills. I think bookworm is right that we should try to exclude intent - can of worms as you say, and accidental kills should definitely be possible.

Thinking through this, it does feel like there should be some criteria that allows for putting someone into a situation where they'll definitely be killed. Scar flinging Mufasa down to the stampeding buffalo in Long King comes to mind - no control over the actual killers there, but the death doesn't happen without Scar's direct action. From a pedantic perspective this could apply to Balon's death as well - even if it's the ocean that drowned him, it was Euron's throw that put him into that situation (and scorekeeping is all about pedantry =P).

I think we can expand on kills commanded here and ultimately include those under a subset of "inevitable death situation" rules:
I. The killer forces the victim into the situation against their will
II. The situation leads to *inevitable* death
II.I. The entity or force that directly kills the victim needs no skill or decision-making to make the kill, aside from following the commands of the killer.
III. The directly killer still gets rewarded duplicate kill points, if applicable.

What that means for the scenarios we've talked about:
1. Executions like Ned's and Fat Walda's (previously covered by Commanded Kills) are included, since the victims are imprisoned (forced into situation), and could do nothing to avoid death (inevitable). This should be the same whether it was a human killer (Ilyn Payne), controlled animals (Ramsay's hounds), as neither needed skill or decision-making (aside from following commands).

2. Scar throwing Mufasa into a canyon of stampeding buffalo is also included. Even without directly controlling the physical killers, the inevitability and lack of skill/decision-making is the same. Imagine if Ramsay throws Fat Walda into a pit of snakes instead.

3. Pushing the victim into a sword held by someone else would be a more nuanced case. As mentioned above, we don't want to get into judging the intent of the indirect killer here:

3a. The victim is shoved toward the sword-holder, who happens to have his sword positioned in a way that impales the victim. Included for the person-pusher, as no skill/decision or even actions were taken by the sword-holder. This would be the same as if the sword-holder was instead a jagged rock.

3b. The victim is shoved in the direction of the sword-holder, who must aim and position his weapon precisely to impale the victim. This would be excluded for the person-pusher, as it required skill/decision-making on the part of the sword-holder.

4. Most "noble suicides" are excluded by criteria I, because the victim willingly put themselves in it (still counted if they are physically killed by their own action, like Leaf's hand grenade).

5. In all above scenarios, the direct killer (Ilyn, Ramsay's hound, sword-holder) still gets credit. -nyan

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2016 May 26 dopeghoti likes this
I think that's definitely a fair way to approach it -bookworm13457

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2016 May 26

Political Wins

6:05 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa learns of the re-emergence of the Blackfish and the Tully army. "Your great-uncle, Brynden the Blackfish, has gathered what remains of the Tully forces and retaken Riverrun. (Secret Discovery)

17:13 (+3) Leaf:

Leaf kills a man with a shard of dragonglass and creates a new White Walker to aid the Children of the Forset in the war against the First Men. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by Lem Lemoncake (approved!)

Yeah that didn't go great for her haha -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 24
I think we're missing evidence that the new WW creature was obedient in any way - we just see the blue eyes and then cut to the next scene. -nyan

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2016 May 24
Well.. as she tells it, they created allies for the war against the First Men. When a House declares support for a lord or the crown or is subjugated/forced to do so, they are counted as New Followers as well, even if they betray their vow later on, right? -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 24
Mostly speculation for now, but I feel an Engineer-Alien (Xenomorph) vibe going on. They created a virus as a last resort, only to find out they couldn't control it. That said, this could count under the "new baby/giving life" criteria we set in place for Jon Snow. I brought up Frankenstein and his monster there, which would be very apt. -nyan

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2016 May 24
Yeah.. we don't really know what happened, I guess I just assumed that they worked together at first and that the White Walkers went rogue some time later in the 4000 years that passed between the arrival of the First Men and the Long Night. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 24

17:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origins of the White Walkers - created by the Children of the Forest - during a warg visit to the past.
Bran: "It was you. You made the White Walkers."
Leaf: "We were at war. We were being slaughtered. Our sacred trees cut down. We needed to defend ourselves." (Secret Discovery)

45:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran's status as the Three Eyed Raven is confirmed by Benjen: "You are the Three-Eyed Raven now." (New Title)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origin of Hodor's name and condition during a visit to Winterfell's past where he wargs into a young Wylas and gives him a vision of his ultimate demise years in the future at the Door. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

3:06 (+3) Sansa Stark:

to Littlefinger: "Did you know about Ramsay? If you didn't know you're an idiot. If you did know, you're my enemy." (Witty Insult)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

4:49 (+3) Sansa Stark:

to Littlefinger: "You said you would protect me... I don't believe you anymore... You can't protect me. You won't even be able to protect yourself if I tell Brienne to cut you down." (Threat)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Deaths

49:59 (+10) Child of the Forest:

The bow-wielding Child of the Forest succumbs to one of the wights invading the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. (Death)

51:13 (+10) Bran Stark:

Summer is cut down by a horde of wights in the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern as Bran, Meera, and Hodor make their escape. (Death)

52:46 (+10) Leaf:

Leaf sacrifices herself to detonate the magical hand grenade in the narrow cavern tunnel, engulfing a large horde of wights and allowing Meera, Hodor, and Bran more time to escape. (Death)

+1 for Osha, +1 for Alliser Thorne

Special

16:02 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into the weirwood.net with the Three-Eyed Raven to revisit a scene with the Children of the Forest at the Weirwood tree. (Special)

34:36 (+3) Varys:

High Priestess Kinvara talks to Varys about his castration.
"If not for your... mutilation at the hand of a second-rate sorcerer, you wouldn't be here. Helping the Lord's Chosen bring his light into the world... Do you remember what you heard that night when the sorcerer tossed your parts in the fire?" (Special)

submitted by emilien.raggi (approved!)

36:51 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into weirwood.net while the Three-Eyed Raven is asleep, jumping into a vision of a frozen wasteland surrounded by wights and the White Walkers. (Special)

47:25 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran has a vision of the day his young father departed Winterfell for the Vale. (Special)

50:27 (+3) Bran Stark:

While embedded in a vision of Winterfell's past, Bran subconsciously wargs into Hodor in the present time so that they can escape from the White Walker horde approaching the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Special)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

While visiting a flashback in Winterfell's past, Bran wargs into a young Wylas, giving him a vision of his present day demise while holding the Door to allow Bran and Meera time to escape the White Walker horde. (Special)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

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