Matchup: Straight outta Fleebottom vs Stannis2016 - Make Westeros Great Again for Ep 5

The Nights Watch

Straight outta Fleebottom (matthew.potts93)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Deaths
Euron Greyjoy An uncle to Theon Greyjoy, Euron is an infamous pirate who has terrorized seas all around the world. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#40	15	6	9	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. A sworn sword to the late Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#9	3	0	3	0
Balon Greyjoy The head of House Greyjoy and Lord of the Iron Islands. He is the father of Theon, who was given up as a ward to the Starks after Balon's failed rebellion against the Iron Throne.	#33	1	0	0	1
Kevan Lannister The younger brother of the late Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock. Often underestimated as his brother's inferior, Kevan is one of the few in King's Landing who is not afraid to stand up against Cersei Lannister's schemes. With Cersei's imprisonment, he has returned to serve as Hand of the King to the young King Tommen Baratheon.	#45	0	0	0	0
Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun A Wildling Giant, who fought in the Battle of Hardhome and was one of the few to escape.	#21	0	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#4	0	0	0	0
Tormund Giantsbane A leader of the Wildlings, and formerly a trusted lieutenant and second-in-command to Mance Rayder, the King Beyond the Wall. Although they have met in battle more than once, he bears a grudging respect for Jon Snow.	#16	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover.	#28	0	0	0	0
Totals		19	6	12	1

Stannis2016 - Make Westeros Great Again (stuartporter9482)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Deaths	Special
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#17	53	19	9	10	15
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#44	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, bannermen to the Lannisters. He defeated Prince Oberyn Martell in a trial by combat for Tyrion Lannister's role in King Joffrey's death, although he was gravely injured in the fight. He appears to have recovered (in some form) under Grand Maester Qyburn's care, and returns to serve as a member of the Kingsguard.	#8	0	0	0	0	0
Margaery Tyrell The wife of King Tommen Baratheon and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Her increasing influence over the young king have put at her odds against his mother, Cersei Lannister.	#32	0	0	0	0	0
Davos Seaworth Ser Davos is a knight serving Stannis Baratheon, and one of his most trusted advisors. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#5	0	0	0	0	0
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#29	0	0	0	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#41	0	0	0	0	0
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#20	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		53	19	9	10	15

Kills

49:26 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer leaps onto the second wight just before it attacks Meera Reed. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

51:10 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer dives into the crowd of wights as Bran and company make their escape out of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. He lands on one wight but is quickly cut down by the horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I don't think we actually see Summer kill any wights. -tbaum9842

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2016 May 23 nyan and ddenault85 like this
:( :( :( -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23
Shouldn't we get credit for Summer's death too? -jamesrscottjr81

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2016 May 23
Bar is set fairly low for fights with henchmen/redshirts. From the rulebook spec: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes." -nyan

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2016 May 23
Summer's death counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/2461 -nyan

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2016 May 23

53:44 (+5) Bran Stark:

Bran mentally debilitates a young Wylas by warging into him, offering him a glimpse of his future demise at the Door. (Major Injury of Named Character)

55:15 (+10) Bran Stark:

While warged in, Bran forces Hodor to hold the Door against the horde of wights as he and Meera make their escape, sacrificing him in the process. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

@Lem Bran only half-consciously controlling the Hodors sounds like a good argument for excluding it as a betrayal. It's ambiguous even to what extent Bran is aware of how he is controlling things (both in past vision and real world), and thus it's hard to say he betrayed anyone in his subconscious (intent should matter for betrayals, else klutzy chars like Podrick would be "betraying" friends with their screwups all the time). -nyan

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2016 May 26
Really good perspectives you both brought up about the kills. I think bookworm is right that we should try to exclude intent - can of worms as you say, and accidental kills should definitely be possible.

Thinking through this, it does feel like there should be some criteria that allows for putting someone into a situation where they'll definitely be killed. Scar flinging Mufasa down to the stampeding buffalo in Long King comes to mind - no control over the actual killers there, but the death doesn't happen without Scar's direct action. From a pedantic perspective this could apply to Balon's death as well - even if it's the ocean that drowned him, it was Euron's throw that put him into that situation (and scorekeeping is all about pedantry =P).

I think we can expand on kills commanded here and ultimately include those under a subset of "inevitable death situation" rules:
I. The killer forces the victim into the situation against their will
II. The situation leads to *inevitable* death
II.I. The entity or force that directly kills the victim needs no skill or decision-making to make the kill, aside from following the commands of the killer.
III. The directly killer still gets rewarded duplicate kill points, if applicable.

What that means for the scenarios we've talked about:
1. Executions like Ned's and Fat Walda's (previously covered by Commanded Kills) are included, since the victims are imprisoned (forced into situation), and could do nothing to avoid death (inevitable). This should be the same whether it was a human killer (Ilyn Payne), controlled animals (Ramsay's hounds), as neither needed skill or decision-making (aside from following commands).

2. Scar throwing Mufasa into a canyon of stampeding buffalo is also included. Even without directly controlling the physical killers, the inevitability and lack of skill/decision-making is the same. Imagine if Ramsay throws Fat Walda into a pit of snakes instead.

3. Pushing the victim into a sword held by someone else would be a more nuanced case. As mentioned above, we don't want to get into judging the intent of the indirect killer here:

3a. The victim is shoved toward the sword-holder, who happens to have his sword positioned in a way that impales the victim. Included for the person-pusher, as no skill/decision or even actions were taken by the sword-holder. This would be the same as if the sword-holder was instead a jagged rock.

3b. The victim is shoved in the direction of the sword-holder, who must aim and position his weapon precisely to impale the victim. This would be excluded for the person-pusher, as it required skill/decision-making on the part of the sword-holder.

4. Most "noble suicides" are excluded by criteria I, because the victim willingly put themselves in it (still counted if they are physically killed by their own action, like Leaf's hand grenade).

5. In all above scenarios, the direct killer (Ilyn, Ramsay's hound, sword-holder) still gets credit. -nyan

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2016 May 26 dopeghoti likes this
I think that's definitely a fair way to approach it -bookworm13457

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2016 May 26

Political Wins

17:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origins of the White Walkers - created by the Children of the Forest - during a warg visit to the past.
Bran: "It was you. You made the White Walkers."
Leaf: "We were at war. We were being slaughtered. Our sacred trees cut down. We needed to defend ourselves." (Secret Discovery)

23:15 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Euron wins over the Ironborn caucus, despite Yara Greyjoy's early superdelegate boost from Theon. "I wasn't born to be king. I paid the iron price. And here I stand." (Convincing Argument)

24:55 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Euron survives a near-drowning baptism by the Drowned God, and is crowned with a bundle of sticks as the new King of the Iron Islands. (New Title)

45:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran's status as the Three Eyed Raven is confirmed by Benjen: "You are the Three-Eyed Raven now." (New Title)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origin of Hodor's name and condition during a visit to Winterfell's past where he wargs into a young Wylas and gives him a vision of his ultimate demise years in the future at the Door. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

20:40 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

"Little Theon. Heard you managed to fuck things right into the ground. Captured a castle you couldn't keep. Got yourself taken prisoner. Even heard you have no cock. Explains why you think a woman can be king." (Witty Insult)

Surely this is two, one against theon and one against yara -lordsparrington

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2016 May 23 wpearsal, dneanover, paolarodelas, alicehanners like this
I don't see how that's two, he is talking to Theon. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23 nyan likes this
Even if it were directed to both of them, one thing that's insulting to two people is still just one insult. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 23 nyan likes this

21:59 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Theon: "Last I heard, you were gallivanting around the world having a grand old time."
Euron: "Gallivanting? That the sort of thing you start to say once your dick gets chopped off?" (Witty Insult)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

22:58 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

"I'm going to build that fleet, and I'm going to gallivant right over and give it (the Iron Fleet) to Daenarys Targaryen, along with my big cock!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

42:47 (+3) Brienne of Tarth:

Brienne: "I don't like leaving you here alone."
Sansa: "With Jon?"
Brienne: "Not him. He seems trustworthy. A bit... brooding, perhaps. I suppose that's understandable, considering. The others, though. Davos and the Red Woman helped a man murder his own brother with bloodmagic... and that wildling fellow with the beard-" (Funny Line)

Deaths

51:13 (+10) Bran Stark:

Summer is cut down by a horde of wights in the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern as Bran, Meera, and Hodor make their escape. (Death)

+1 for Balon Greyjoy

Special

16:02 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into the weirwood.net with the Three-Eyed Raven to revisit a scene with the Children of the Forest at the Weirwood tree. (Special)

36:51 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into weirwood.net while the Three-Eyed Raven is asleep, jumping into a vision of a frozen wasteland surrounded by wights and the White Walkers. (Special)

47:25 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran has a vision of the day his young father departed Winterfell for the Vale. (Special)

50:27 (+3) Bran Stark:

While embedded in a vision of Winterfell's past, Bran subconsciously wargs into Hodor in the present time so that they can escape from the White Walker horde approaching the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Special)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

While visiting a flashback in Winterfell's past, Bran wargs into a young Wylas, giving him a vision of his present day demise while holding the Door to allow Bran and Meera time to escape the White Walker horde. (Special)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

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