Matchup: Khal Me Maybe vs Kanye Westeros for Ep 5

Khal Me Maybe (Nick the Irish)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Special
Meera Reed The eldest child of Howland Reed, bannerman to the Starks. She and Bran have arrived at the cave of the Three-eyed Raven.	#61	14	14	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys controls a vast network of spies. After smuggling Tyrion Lannister to Essos, he reveals himself as a supporter of Daenerys Targaryen's claim to the Iron Throne. In Daenerys' absence, he serves with Tyrion Lannister and presides over the rule of Meereen.	#13	3	0	3
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#29	0	0	0
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#20	0	0	0
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death.	#45	0	0	0
Ramsay Bolton The legitimized bastard son of Roose Bolton, now Warden of the North. He is fond of the Bolton tradition of flaying their enemies.	#4	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#36	0	0	0
Mace Tyrell The head of House Tyrell and Lord of Highgarden. He is the father of Loras and Margaery. While bumbling and appearing incompetent, he heads a powerful House and serves as both Master of Ships and Master of Coin on King Tommen Baratheon's Small Council.	#52	0	0	0
Totals		17	14	3

Kanye Westeros (ljtaban)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Deaths	Special
Hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor. hodor.	#24	110	1	0	10	99
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#9	53	19	9	10	15
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#25	16	10	6	0	0
Three-eyed raven A mysterious man who lives far north of the Wall with the Children of the Forest. He has been guiding Bran's dreams through the form of a three-eyed raven.	#41	10	0	0	10	0
Khal Moro The leader of a new Khalasar of Dothraki.	#40	1	0	0	1	0
Eddard Stark The long-deceased head of House Stark. There are rumors that he may make a reappearance in flashback form for S6.	#57	0	0	0	0	0
Jon Snow The bastard son of Ned Stark, and the current Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After guiding the Wildlings to safety in the aftermath of the Battle of Castle Black and the attack on Hardhome, he was betrayed by a mutiny of the Night's Watch, and left for dead in the snow.	#8	0	0	0	0	0
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#56	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		190	30	15	31	114

Kills

49:20 (+2) Meera Reed:

Meera cuts down the first wight to fall into the cave through the weirwood root system. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

49:26 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer leaps onto the second wight just before it attacks Meera Reed. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

50:33 (+2) Meera Reed:

Meera cuts down a wight as it charges through the cavern tunnels shortly after Bran wargs into Hodor. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

50:53 (+10) Meera Reed:

Meera throws a dragonglass spear at the bearded White Walker, piercing it in the neck and shattering it. (Kill of Named Character)

10 more comments - see full thread

A little worried about entire White Walker armies showing up later on, and each of them counting as +10pts while they're getting shredded up by obsidian spears or dragonfire by the dozen. I think we'll need to go deeper into criteria for boss fight character:

* Only fighter of their type in scene
* Demonstrates superpower/abilities beyond others in scene
* Featured in a commanding role of other fighters
* ?

Some fun reading to get you lost into tvtropes for a couple hours:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MookLieutenant
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NobleTopEnforcer
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mooks -nyan

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2016 May 23 Lem Lemoncake and jedjackoway like this
Well, walking through the fire would count as superpower in his case, I guess. And for the series' sake, I really hope that there won't be any armies of White Walkers soon.. I mean, how many sons could Craster produce? -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 23
Isn't this the same type of White Walker that Jon got boss kill points for downing last season? It's not the Knight King, but it's definitely a higher tier baddy -bookworm13457

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2016 May 24

51:10 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer dives into the crowd of wights as Bran and company make their escape out of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. He lands on one wight but is quickly cut down by the horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I don't think we actually see Summer kill any wights. -tbaum9842

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2016 May 23 nyan and ddenault85 like this
:( :( :( -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23
Shouldn't we get credit for Summer's death too? -jamesrscottjr81

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2016 May 23
Bar is set fairly low for fights with henchmen/redshirts. From the rulebook spec: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes." -nyan

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2016 May 23
Summer's death counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/2461 -nyan

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2016 May 23

51:57 (+10) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walker King cuts down the Three-Eyed Raven after gaining access to his cavern via Bran's unsupervised vision. (Kill of Named Character)

He doesn't get kill points for the people the wights kill? They are under his magical command. -rblaine.morris

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2016 May 23 tbaum9842, rynearson.david, korina.rangel like this
That sounds impossible to score. Although he was on my team this episode so it would be great for me, but if they started counting army kills for the commander it would lead into impossible to count territory pretty fast. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23 shrest18, dopeghoti, nyan like this
Typically for a battle scene, the army's actions are not automatically counted for the commander. Here's the exact criteria from the rulebook: "A commanded kill is counted, if it requires absolutely no skill on the part of the person carrying it out."

This brings up an interesting point because the WW King "commands" the wights much more directly than any human commands an army. But I think it still falls into the category of the wights acting of their own zombie-mentality accord.

Note that WW King does get credit for winning the battle in general: http://fantasora.com/event/2492 -nyan

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2016 May 23
Do we really already know how the WW King commands the wights or do we all just assume that from theories and lore? :D I noticed that I kind of mixed it all up in my head and can't really tell apart anymore what was in the series, what's in the books and what I have from the tinfoiliest theories out there :p -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 23
But he was clearly fully in control of them at hard home otherwise they wouldn't have stopped fighting and would have kept chasing after the boats instead of just standing there. He did all of this by silently walking out on a dock and raising his arms -rblaine.morris

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2016 May 24 Lem Lemoncake likes this

53:21 (+1) Hodor:

Hodor shuts the door on the horde of wights, severing the hand of one who just managed to slip its arm past the door. (Major Injury of Unnamed Character)

53:44 (+5) Bran Stark:

Bran mentally debilitates a young Wylas by warging into him, offering him a glimpse of his future demise at the Door. (Major Injury of Named Character)

55:15 (+10) Bran Stark:

While warged in, Bran forces Hodor to hold the Door against the horde of wights as he and Meera make their escape, sacrificing him in the process. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

@Lem Bran only half-consciously controlling the Hodors sounds like a good argument for excluding it as a betrayal. It's ambiguous even to what extent Bran is aware of how he is controlling things (both in past vision and real world), and thus it's hard to say he betrayed anyone in his subconscious (intent should matter for betrayals, else klutzy chars like Podrick would be "betraying" friends with their screwups all the time). -nyan

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2016 May 26
Really good perspectives you both brought up about the kills. I think bookworm is right that we should try to exclude intent - can of worms as you say, and accidental kills should definitely be possible.

Thinking through this, it does feel like there should be some criteria that allows for putting someone into a situation where they'll definitely be killed. Scar flinging Mufasa down to the stampeding buffalo in Long King comes to mind - no control over the actual killers there, but the death doesn't happen without Scar's direct action. From a pedantic perspective this could apply to Balon's death as well - even if it's the ocean that drowned him, it was Euron's throw that put him into that situation (and scorekeeping is all about pedantry =P).

I think we can expand on kills commanded here and ultimately include those under a subset of "inevitable death situation" rules:
I. The killer forces the victim into the situation against their will
II. The situation leads to *inevitable* death
II.I. The entity or force that directly kills the victim needs no skill or decision-making to make the kill, aside from following the commands of the killer.
III. The directly killer still gets rewarded duplicate kill points, if applicable.

What that means for the scenarios we've talked about:
1. Executions like Ned's and Fat Walda's (previously covered by Commanded Kills) are included, since the victims are imprisoned (forced into situation), and could do nothing to avoid death (inevitable). This should be the same whether it was a human killer (Ilyn Payne), controlled animals (Ramsay's hounds), as neither needed skill or decision-making (aside from following commands).

2. Scar throwing Mufasa into a canyon of stampeding buffalo is also included. Even without directly controlling the physical killers, the inevitability and lack of skill/decision-making is the same. Imagine if Ramsay throws Fat Walda into a pit of snakes instead.

3. Pushing the victim into a sword held by someone else would be a more nuanced case. As mentioned above, we don't want to get into judging the intent of the indirect killer here:

3a. The victim is shoved toward the sword-holder, who happens to have his sword positioned in a way that impales the victim. Included for the person-pusher, as no skill/decision or even actions were taken by the sword-holder. This would be the same as if the sword-holder was instead a jagged rock.

3b. The victim is shoved in the direction of the sword-holder, who must aim and position his weapon precisely to impale the victim. This would be excluded for the person-pusher, as it required skill/decision-making on the part of the sword-holder.

4. Most "noble suicides" are excluded by criteria I, because the victim willingly put themselves in it (still counted if they are physically killed by their own action, like Leaf's hand grenade).

5. In all above scenarios, the direct killer (Ilyn, Ramsay's hound, sword-holder) still gets credit. -nyan

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2016 May 26 dopeghoti likes this
I think that's definitely a fair way to approach it -bookworm13457

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2016 May 26

Political Wins

17:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origins of the White Walkers - created by the Children of the Forest - during a warg visit to the past.
Bran: "It was you. You made the White Walkers."
Leaf: "We were at war. We were being slaughtered. Our sacred trees cut down. We needed to defend ourselves." (Secret Discovery)

39:04 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walker King discovers the location of Bran and the Three-Eyed Raven after Bran's unsupervised usage of the Weirwood Palantir. (Secret Discovery)

45:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran's status as the Three Eyed Raven is confirmed by Benjen: "You are the Three-Eyed Raven now." (New Title)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

51:57 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walkers defeat the magical defenses of the Children of the Forest, slaughtering Leaf and her companions and killing the Three-Eyed Raven with their horde of wights. (Victorious Battle)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origin of Hodor's name and condition during a visit to Winterfell's past where he wargs into a young Wylas and gives him a vision of his ultimate demise years in the future at the Door. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

Deaths

51:13 (+10) Bran Stark:

Summer is cut down by a horde of wights in the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern as Bran, Meera, and Hodor make their escape. (Death)

51:57 (+10) Three-eyed raven:

The Three-Eyed Raven is cut down by the White Walker King after the White Walkers and their wights invade his cavern. "The time has come. Leave me." (Death)

55:15 (+10) Hodor:

"Hold the door." (Death)

all the tears ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????_???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? -nyan

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2016 May 23
? -britni

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2016 May 23
Poor guy never got that fried egg and blood sausage :( -sanford

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2016 May 23 Lem Lemoncake likes this
He will live on in the memories of every future "hold the door closed to delay a horde" scene forevermore. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 23 nyan, Lem Lemoncake, jedjackoway like this

+1 for Khal Moro

Special

16:02 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into the weirwood.net with the Three-Eyed Raven to revisit a scene with the Children of the Forest at the Weirwood tree. (Special)

34:36 (+3) Varys:

High Priestess Kinvara talks to Varys about his castration.
"If not for your... mutilation at the hand of a second-rate sorcerer, you wouldn't be here. Helping the Lord's Chosen bring his light into the world... Do you remember what you heard that night when the sorcerer tossed your parts in the fire?" (Special)

submitted by emilien.raggi (approved!)

36:51 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into weirwood.net while the Three-Eyed Raven is asleep, jumping into a vision of a frozen wasteland surrounded by wights and the White Walkers. (Special)

39:37 (+3) Hodor:

"Hodor." (Special)

45:45 (+3) Hodor:

"Ho-hodor." (Special)

45:57 (+3) Hodor:

"Hodor." (Special)

46:02 (+3) Hodor:

"...Hodor." (Special)

47:21 (+6) Hodor:

"Hodor. Hodor." (Special)

47:25 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran has a vision of the day his young father departed Winterfell for the Vale. (Special)

47:43 (+6) Hodor:

"Hodor... hodor." (Special)

49:31 (+12) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor... hodor. hodor!" (Special)

49:51 (+6) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor!" (Special)

50:09 (+6) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor." (Special)

50:22 (+18) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor! hodor. hodor! hodor! hodor!" (Special)

50:27 (+3) Bran Stark:

While embedded in a vision of Winterfell's past, Bran subconsciously wargs into Hodor in the present time so that they can escape from the White Walker horde approaching the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Special)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

While visiting a flashback in Winterfell's past, Bran wargs into a young Wylas, giving him a vision of his present day demise while holding the Door to allow Bran and Meera time to escape the White Walker horde. (Special)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

55:07 (+33) Hodor:

"Ho-dor Hooodor [hodedor hodedor] hooodor hooodor hodor. hodor. Hodor. Hodor. Hodor. Hodor. Hodor." (Special)

We ended up counted the distinctly two-syllable "hodors" as Wylas made the gradual transition from "hold the door". The two "hodedors" in the last sequence are not counted. -nyan

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2016 May 23 thederekwilson, james.vonhagel, jedjackoway, dopeghoti, 3 others like this
I was wondering as I watched whether only "hodors" would be counting or of the "hodedoor"s would slip through. That must have been a bear to get a count on. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 23
Appreciate all your hard work, Nathan. -marcelcdn

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2016 May 25 nyan, Er1cThornton, wpearsal like this

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