Matchup: devil.Trigger vs Where are my dragons?! for Ep 6

devil.Trigger (indrasishbose)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Deaths
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Free-spirited and rebellious, Arya escaped the war-ravaged Westeros and currently resides in Braavos, where she trains under the face-changing assassin Jaqen H'ghar in the House of Black and White.	#5	6	6	0
Roose Bolton Lord of House Bolton, and Warden of the North after his betrayal of Robb Stark at the Red Wedding. He is the father of Ramsay Bolton, who is his legitimized bastard son.	#12	1	0	1
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#28	0	0	0
Tyene Sand The youngest of Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She uses daggers and poisons as her weapons.	#44	0	0	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#53	0	0	0
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#60	0	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#37	0	0	0
Tommen Baratheon The King of the Seven Kingdoms after the assassination of his brother, Joffrey Baratheon. He is young and highly impressionable to the various influences in King's Landing that seek to control him.	#21	0	0	0
Totals		7	6	1

Where are my dragons?! (zwalex68)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Sex	Deaths	Special
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and recently returns from a mission to Dorne to rescue his daughter/niece, Myrcella Baratheon.	#4	32	10	6	6	10	0	0
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#20	15	0	15	0	0	0	0
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#13	4	0	0	0	0	1	3
Alliser Thorne A former master-of-arms and acting Commander of the Night's Watch, Thorne narrowly lost the Lord Commander choosing to Jon Snow in S5. He later led a mutiny of disgruntled Night's Watch members against Jon Snow, stabbing and leaving him for dead.	#29	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Rickon Stark The youngest of the Stark children. He splits off from Bran and travels with Osha to the Last Hearth, seat of House Umber.	#52	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#45	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#36	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
High Septon of the Faith (S3) The High Septon is formerly the leader of the Faith of the Seven. He was disgraced after the arrival of the Sparrows, and his position was stripped by Cersei and given to the High Sparrow.	#61	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		53	10	21	6	10	3	3

Kills

2:50 (+10) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime slays the Mad King Aerys II during one of Bran's flashback visions. (Kill of Named Character)

8 more comments - see full thread

I guess we did count Ned killing Arthur Dayne in the other flashback right? Even though that had been discussed before in the series, points weren't awarded because we never saw it until the flashback. I even drafted a character who I think will die in a flashback later this season, so I don't know why I initially had a problem with it. More kills! More points! -wpearsal

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2016 Jun 1
Everything during Bran's flashbacks have counted (Ned's Tower of Joy scene, mainly). Everything happening in flashbacks will count, as long as it's new material (e.g. flashback to Ned's execution doesn't count, since we already saw it in S1). -nyan

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2016 Jun 1 kailin, sanford, emilien.raggi, moonbaseu92 like this
I have to contest Jamie's intercourse points. Does a kissing scene now count as intercourse? Just wondering if we are now simply assuming something happens even if we don't see it on screen... -Tose

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2016 Jun 3

Political Wins

2:50 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime stabs the Mad King Aerys II in the back during one of Bran's flashback visions. (Act of Betrayal)

10:24 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow convinces King Tommen to allow Margaery to proceed with her Walk of Atonement.
Tommen: "Is there no other way? ... It just seems very dangerous."
High Sparrow: "She'll be protected the entire way. The Faith Militant are very stern with those who overstep their bounds." (Convincing Argument)

30:28 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow announces Margaery's crimes to the masses gathered at the Sept of Baelor. "Rich or poor, noble or common, if we sin, we must atone. Margaery of House Tyrell came to us a sinner. She stood before the gods in the holy sept and lied. She turned a blind eye to her brother's sins. She disgraced her house, her King, and herself." (Politics Special)

8 more comments - see full thread

What about everytime he deescalates a confrontation? He's done that basically every episode. -julian.aronowitz

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2016 Jun 1
Proposition for new Sparrow special, using others who have multiple triggers as a template:
+1 each time the High Sparrow publicly outs a draftable character's sins or crimes
+1 each time he deescalates an impending violent conflict
+1 each time he makes specific reference to his past as a cobbler, or his current barefootedness. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 1 as38, julian.aronowitz, Ser Vincent, nyan like this
I think it's definitely good to count this even if he has already publicly outed Margaery as a sinner. It's exactely this obnoxious way of using every situation to make every last person aware of the sinner that is his speciality. It's like Daenerys repeating her titles over and over again and I'm sure there are more examples.
I assume the repetition came up here because of the question if kills that have already been shown should count if they reappear in Bran's visions? There I would disagree, but to me these are two entirely different things. It might help to step out of the scoring framework for an instant and think about how you experience these different acts while watching the episodes (without having the fantasy league in mind :D).

Maybe, it might also help to think in terms of plot and story. A kill happens once in the story, but the plot may deliver information about that at another time within the narrative - or even multiple times. The High Sparrow's multiple announcements do actually happen that often. Furthermore, it's not about revealing a secret, it's the act of denouncing he likes so much :)

At least that's my understanding of the way this game works, hah. Correct me if I'm wrong :o -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1

30:46 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya betrays Bianca, who had entrusted her murder plot of Lady Crane to the Faceless Men. "Careful that one... she wants you dead." (Act of Betrayal)

31:15 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya reclaims Needle, which she had buried into the docks of Braavos. (New Weapon)

36:49 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow picks up an ownership stake in King's Landing after announcing a joint venture with Tommen Baratheon to make the Seven Kingdoms great again.
High Sparrow: "Together we announce a new age of harmony. A holy alliance between the Crown and the Faith."
Tommen: "The Crown and the Faith are the twin pillars upon which the world rests. Together we will restore the Seven Kingdoms to glory." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

submitted by as38 (approved!)

Definitely a huge coup for him this episode. Aside from getting Margaery/Tommen on his side, it was hard to pinpoint something concrete for this new "holy alliance", e.g. did he get promoted to a Pope Sparrow, or is he now effectively in control of King's Landing as you say (technically it should still be Tommen). -nyan

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2016 Jun 1
i think it is both tommen and the high sparrow in control of kings landing, the crown and the faith, tommen didnt lose kings landing he merely entered a joint venture with the high sparrow for shared control -as38

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2016 Jun 1 nyan likes this
Tommen didn't lose titular control over King's Landing (and indeed the Seven Kingdoms), but the High Sparrow is certainly going to take advantage of Tommen coming under his metaphorical wing. So to speak. Definitely a gain for the High Sparrow, but not a loss for Tommen per se. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 1 as38 likes this

36:52 (+6) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow announces the latest high-profile devotees to sign onto Team Sparrow, in a joint press conference with Tommen Baratheon and Margaery Tyrell.

"Queen Margaery has already atoned for her sins by bringing another into the true light of the Seven. Together we announce a new age of harmony. A holy alliance between the Crown and the Faith." (New Follower/Prisoner)

41:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Despite being demoted out of the Kingsguard, Jaime is assigned a new role as head of the Lannister armies sent to deal with the Blackfish in the Riverlands. "I'm being sent to deal with the Blackfish. Apparently Walder Frey can't manage it on his own because he's 400 years old. Sent me with an army to the Riverlands and a siege that could last months." (New Title)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

35:18 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

to High Sparrow: "You've already insulted one great house. It won't happen twice. Every last sparrow will die before Margaery Tyrell walks down that street." (Threat)

41:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

"I'm being sent to deal with the Blackfish. Apparently Walder Frey can't manage it on his own because he's 400 years old." (Witty Insult)

Acts of Intercourse

43:08 (+10) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime and Cersei get it on after hot and heavy dirty talk about the power of House Lannister and destroying their enemies. "They've made us both stronger, all of them. They have no idea how strong we are. No idea what we're going to do to them. We've always been together. We'll always be together." (Act of Intercourse)

10 more comments - see full thread

Hopefully this will become clearer when I can make a detailed breakdown for each scoring event. The sex category gets 1 pt EACH for: sex itself (incl. implied), each boob, butts, frontal nudity. So that is why Daenerys temple-burning scene gets points for the nudity, even though no sex happened: http://fantasora.com/event/2356

Earlier this season we defined direct contact with reproductive organs as the threshold for explicit sex: http://fantasora.com/event/2401

For implicit sex, we've never defined really defined it, so that's what this discussion is about.

Here's an idea that we could add for Ruleset 4.0: we can further break up scoring and add an additional point for on-screen gettin' it in. So this and other implied scenes would only count 1pt, Osha's would only be 1pt, Sam's "Oh.. oh.. oh my" with Gilly would get 2 pts - 1 for sex and 1 for penetration. -nyan

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2016 Jun 2 Ser Vincent likes this
I agree that there should be a sub-point system of "intercourse". Because if we are now simply assuming that the twins engaged in intercourse off camera, we are opening up the point system to a number of assumed acts of whatever (intercourse related, kill related, wine related). For example, we didn't see Sam drink any wine during the dinning scene. But isn't it safe to say that he probably drank wine prior or during the course of his meal? -Tose

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2016 Jun 3
The criteria for each category is different, and there is some balance in mind when deciding how strict they are. "Cups on the table" would be a close equivalent to "making out in a private room", but as @Tose says we would start giving away way too many wine points (these wine points would also feel "cheap" compared to characters who are doing actual on-screen drinking). For sex, the easier implied criteria has been fine since explicit sex scenes are fairly rare on the show. -nyan

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2016 Jun 3 Laxis likes this

Deaths

+1 for Bran Stark, +1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Alliser Thorne, +1 for Roose Bolton

Special

2:20 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran progresses through a series of flashback visions as Meera drags him throw the snow. (Special)

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