Matchup: Dothraki Dragons vs Nuova canta lega for Ep 5

Dothraki Dragons (smithycurt)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths
Leaf A member of the Children of the Forest. She leads Bran and his companions to cave of the Three-eyed Raven.	#58	110	97	3	0	10
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#50	16	10	6	0	0
Euron Greyjoy An uncle to Theon Greyjoy, Euron is an infamous pirate who has terrorized seas all around the world. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#39	15	0	6	9	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. Sansa has spent many of her past years as prisoner to the Lannisters and more recently, House Bolton, the new Warden of the North. Currently she is married to Ramsay, the heir of House Bolton, who keeps her imprisoned in Winterfell and tortures her sadistically. During the Bolton battle against Stannis Baratheon's forces, Sansa escapes over the Winterfell walls with the help of Theon Greyjoy, and the two make their way as far from the Boltons as possible. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#7	9	0	3	6	0
Daenerys Targaryen The last royal member of the Targaryen dynasty, Daenerys and her three dragons have carved out a revolutionary empire in the east, liberating several slave cities and acquiring an army of Unsullied warriors. Her recent rule over the slave city of Meereen has been met with strife, however, and she currently finds herself lost with her largest dragon, Drogon, in Dothraki territory.	#2	6	0	6	0	0
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own.	#47	6	0	6	0	0
Jaqen H'ghar The leader of the Faceless Men of Braavos, and a skilled assassin. He trains Arya to become an assassin in the House of Black and White.	#26	3	0	0	3	0
The Waif A disciple in the House of Black & White. Her real identity is unknown, as she is one of the many identities used by the Faceless Men in their work.	#63	2	2	0	0	0
Trystane Martell Prince Doran Martell's son, and heir to Dorne. He is betrothed to Myrcella Baratheon, and accompanies her back to King's Landing to serve on the Small Council.	#34	1	0	0	0	1
Tyene Sand The youngest of Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She uses daggers and poisons as her weapons.	#42	0	0	0	0	0
Margaery Tyrell The wife of King Tommen Baratheon and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Her increasing influence over the young king have put at her odds against his mother, Cersei Lannister.	#18	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#31	0	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover.	#23	0	0	0	0	0
Jon Snow The bastard son of Ned Stark, and the current Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After guiding the Wildlings to safety in the aftermath of the Battle of Castle Black and the attack on Hardhome, he was betrayed by a mutiny of the Night's Watch, and left for dead in the snow.	#10	0	0	0	0	0
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#55	0	0	0	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker. He journeys south to begin his training as a Maester to replace the aging Maester Aemon.	#15	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		168	109	30	18	11

Nuova canta lega (dante.arrigoni)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#12	53	19	9	0	10	15
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys controls a vast network of spies. After smuggling Tyrion Lannister to Essos, he reveals himself as a supporter of Daenerys Targaryen's claim to the Iron Throne. In Daenerys' absence, he serves with Tyrion Lannister and presides over the rule of Meereen.	#20	3	0	0	0	0	3
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. A sworn sword to the late Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#13	3	0	0	3	0	0
Olly An orphan boy of the Night's Watch, and a squire for Lord Commander Jon Snow. He is part of the mutiny that betrays Jon and leaves him for dead.	#52	1	0	0	0	1	0
Alliser Thorne A former master-of-arms and acting Commander of the Night's Watch, Thorne narrowly lost the Lord Commander choosing to Jon Snow in S5. He later led a mutiny of disgruntled Night's Watch members against Jon Snow, stabbing and leaving him for dead.	#28	1	0	0	0	1	0
Doran Martell The head of House Martell of Dorne, and elder brother of Prince Oberyn Martell.	#29	1	0	0	0	1	0
Areo Hotah The personal bodyguard for Doran Martell.	#45	1	0	0	0	1	0
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#21	0	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She wields a whip.	#44	0	0	0	0	0	0
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#61	0	0	0	0	0	0
Grand Maester Pycelle The Grand Maester of the Seven Kingdoms. Pycelle is highly educated and serves as an advisor to the King.	#60	0	0	0	0	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#37	0	0	0	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#4	0	0	0	0	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#36	0	0	0	0	0	0
Olyvar A former prostitute, Olyvar now manages Littlefinger's brothels while he is away in the Eyrie. He plays a key role in the Sparrows' indictment and imprisonment of Loras Tyrell.	#53	0	0	0	0	0	0
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and recently returns from a mission to Dorne to rescue his daughter/niece, Myrcella Baratheon.	#5	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		63	19	9	3	14	18

Kills

7:56 (+2) The Waif:

A weaponless Waif still manages to knock out Arya with a 4-stroke uppercut combo. "You'll never be one of us, Lady Stark." (Minor Injury of Named Character)

point for insult too? -benjaminblais

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2016 May 23
A man would certainly hope that a girl wouldn't see "Lady Stark" as an insult. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 23 Lem Lemoncake and nsimmonds like this
Definitely an insult if a girl is supposed to be no one -elise.gwen.morgan

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2016 May 23 jedjackoway and nsimmonds like this
I vote insult! -skywalkerdude

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2016 May 24 jmgol06 likes this
Everyone knows its bad form to add insult to injury! -drbowersox

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2016 May 31
If a girl had had good form, she might have not dropped her quarterstaff. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 31 nyan likes this

17:03 (+5) Leaf:

In a vision of the very distant past, Leaf plunges a shard dragonglass through the chest of a man tied to a Weirwood tree, creating one of the first White Walkers. (Major Injury of Named Character)

47:51 (+4) Leaf:

Leaf throws the first magical hand grenade, destroying two wights. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

49:26 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer leaps onto the second wight just before it attacks Meera Reed. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

49:37 (+2) Leaf:

Leaf stabs the upside down spidey-wight through the eye. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

51:10 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer dives into the crowd of wights as Bran and company make their escape out of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. He lands on one wight but is quickly cut down by the horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I don't think we actually see Summer kill any wights. -tbaum9842

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2016 May 23 nyan and ddenault85 like this
:( :( :( -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23
Shouldn't we get credit for Summer's death too? -jamesrscottjr81

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2016 May 23
Bar is set fairly low for fights with henchmen/redshirts. From the rulebook spec: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes." -nyan

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2016 May 23
Summer's death counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/2461 -nyan

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2016 May 23

51:57 (+10) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walker King cuts down the Three-Eyed Raven after gaining access to his cavern via Bran's unsupervised vision. (Kill of Named Character)

He doesn't get kill points for the people the wights kill? They are under his magical command. -rblaine.morris

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2016 May 23 tbaum9842, rynearson.david, korina.rangel like this
That sounds impossible to score. Although he was on my team this episode so it would be great for me, but if they started counting army kills for the commander it would lead into impossible to count territory pretty fast. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23 shrest18, dopeghoti, nyan like this
Typically for a battle scene, the army's actions are not automatically counted for the commander. Here's the exact criteria from the rulebook: "A commanded kill is counted, if it requires absolutely no skill on the part of the person carrying it out."

This brings up an interesting point because the WW King "commands" the wights much more directly than any human commands an army. But I think it still falls into the category of the wights acting of their own zombie-mentality accord.

Note that WW King does get credit for winning the battle in general: http://fantasora.com/event/2492 -nyan

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2016 May 23
Do we really already know how the WW King commands the wights or do we all just assume that from theories and lore? :D I noticed that I kind of mixed it all up in my head and can't really tell apart anymore what was in the series, what's in the books and what I have from the tinfoiliest theories out there :p -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 23
But he was clearly fully in control of them at hard home otherwise they wouldn't have stopped fighting and would have kept chasing after the boats instead of just standing there. He did all of this by silently walking out on a dock and raising his arms -rblaine.morris

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2016 May 24 Lem Lemoncake likes this

52:46 (+76) Leaf:

Leaf sacrifices herself to detonate the magical hand grenade, engulfing a large horde of wights in the cavern tunnels and giving Meera, Hodor, and Bran more time to escape. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

11 more comments - see full thread

I just did a rewatch and paused it at this part to try to count, and at least on my computer screen I couldn't do it. It was just a mass of zombies that all flowed together. Definitely seemed more than thirty from what I could count, but it's hard to say how many she actually took out. Maybe someone with higher resolution can see better. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 24
Yea I really like the idea of letting characters like drogon just getting insane kil counts, Im actaully really looking forward to it lol. -cmwalken15

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2016 May 24 taylorreneegoodrich likes this
Alrighty.. here was my attempt at counting them. Rewatching the scene in motion (vs. still), you can get a sense of the motion of bobbing heads/limbs and sort of differentiate each one. Here's the best attempt I could muster, which tallied up to 38 distinguishable, on-screen wights: http://imgur.com/EFuhhWS -nyan

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2016 May 24

52:46 (+10) Leaf:

Leaf sacrifices detonates the magical hand grenade in the narrow cavern tunnel, engulfing herself with a large horde of wights and allowing Meera, Hodor, and Bran more time to escape. (Kill of Named Character)

53:44 (+5) Bran Stark:

Bran mentally debilitates a young Wylas by warging into him, offering him a glimpse of his future demise at the Door. (Major Injury of Named Character)

55:15 (+10) Bran Stark:

While warged in, Bran forces Hodor to hold the Door against the horde of wights as he and Meera make their escape, sacrificing him in the process. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

@Lem Bran only half-consciously controlling the Hodors sounds like a good argument for excluding it as a betrayal. It's ambiguous even to what extent Bran is aware of how he is controlling things (both in past vision and real world), and thus it's hard to say he betrayed anyone in his subconscious (intent should matter for betrayals, else klutzy chars like Podrick would be "betraying" friends with their screwups all the time). -nyan

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2016 May 26
Really good perspectives you both brought up about the kills. I think bookworm is right that we should try to exclude intent - can of worms as you say, and accidental kills should definitely be possible.

Thinking through this, it does feel like there should be some criteria that allows for putting someone into a situation where they'll definitely be killed. Scar flinging Mufasa down to the stampeding buffalo in Long King comes to mind - no control over the actual killers there, but the death doesn't happen without Scar's direct action. From a pedantic perspective this could apply to Balon's death as well - even if it's the ocean that drowned him, it was Euron's throw that put him into that situation (and scorekeeping is all about pedantry =P).

I think we can expand on kills commanded here and ultimately include those under a subset of "inevitable death situation" rules:
I. The killer forces the victim into the situation against their will
II. The situation leads to *inevitable* death
II.I. The entity or force that directly kills the victim needs no skill or decision-making to make the kill, aside from following the commands of the killer.
III. The directly killer still gets rewarded duplicate kill points, if applicable.

What that means for the scenarios we've talked about:
1. Executions like Ned's and Fat Walda's (previously covered by Commanded Kills) are included, since the victims are imprisoned (forced into situation), and could do nothing to avoid death (inevitable). This should be the same whether it was a human killer (Ilyn Payne), controlled animals (Ramsay's hounds), as neither needed skill or decision-making (aside from following commands).

2. Scar throwing Mufasa into a canyon of stampeding buffalo is also included. Even without directly controlling the physical killers, the inevitability and lack of skill/decision-making is the same. Imagine if Ramsay throws Fat Walda into a pit of snakes instead.

3. Pushing the victim into a sword held by someone else would be a more nuanced case. As mentioned above, we don't want to get into judging the intent of the indirect killer here:

3a. The victim is shoved toward the sword-holder, who happens to have his sword positioned in a way that impales the victim. Included for the person-pusher, as no skill/decision or even actions were taken by the sword-holder. This would be the same as if the sword-holder was instead a jagged rock.

3b. The victim is shoved in the direction of the sword-holder, who must aim and position his weapon precisely to impale the victim. This would be excluded for the person-pusher, as it required skill/decision-making on the part of the sword-holder.

4. Most "noble suicides" are excluded by criteria I, because the victim willingly put themselves in it (still counted if they are physically killed by their own action, like Leaf's hand grenade).

5. In all above scenarios, the direct killer (Ilyn, Ramsay's hound, sword-holder) still gets credit. -nyan

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2016 May 26 dopeghoti likes this
I think that's definitely a fair way to approach it -bookworm13457

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2016 May 26

Political Wins

6:05 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa learns of the re-emergence of the Blackfish and the Tully army. "Your great-uncle, Brynden the Blackfish, has gathered what remains of the Tully forces and retaken Riverrun. (Secret Discovery)

17:13 (+3) Leaf:

Leaf kills a man with a shard of dragonglass and creates a new White Walker to aid the Children of the Forset in the war against the First Men. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by Lem Lemoncake (approved!)

Yeah that didn't go great for her haha -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 24
I think we're missing evidence that the new WW creature was obedient in any way - we just see the blue eyes and then cut to the next scene. -nyan

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2016 May 24
Well.. as she tells it, they created allies for the war against the First Men. When a House declares support for a lord or the crown or is subjugated/forced to do so, they are counted as New Followers as well, even if they betray their vow later on, right? -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 24
Mostly speculation for now, but I feel an Engineer-Alien (Xenomorph) vibe going on. They created a virus as a last resort, only to find out they couldn't control it. That said, this could count under the "new baby/giving life" criteria we set in place for Jon Snow. I brought up Frankenstein and his monster there, which would be very apt. -nyan

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2016 May 24
Yeah.. we don't really know what happened, I guess I just assumed that they worked together at first and that the White Walkers went rogue some time later in the 4000 years that passed between the arrival of the First Men and the Long Night. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 24

17:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origins of the White Walkers - created by the Children of the Forest - during a warg visit to the past.
Bran: "It was you. You made the White Walkers."
Leaf: "We were at war. We were being slaughtered. Our sacred trees cut down. We needed to defend ourselves." (Secret Discovery)

21:17 (+3) Yara Greyjoy:

Yara exposes Euron Greyjoy's assassination of her father Balon during the Kingsmoot, though he quickly counters it.
Yara: "Now I know what my first act as queen will be. To execute the man who killed my father."
Euron: "I did. I killed him. Threw him right over a rope bridge and watched him fall. He was leading us nowhere and we would still be heading there if it weren't for me. No one loved him. No one wanted to follow him ... I apologize to you all for not killing him years ago." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by cmwalken15 (approved!)

23:15 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Euron wins over the Ironborn caucus, despite Yara Greyjoy's early superdelegate boost from Theon. "I wasn't born to be king. I paid the iron price. And here I stand." (Convincing Argument)

24:55 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Euron survives a near-drowning baptism by the Drowned God, and is crowned with a bundle of sticks as the new King of the Iron Islands. (New Title)

26:26 (+3) Yara Greyjoy:

Yara refuses to go out quietly after losing the Kingsmoot election to Euron Greyjoy - during his coronation ceremony she makes her escape and steals off with the best ships of the Iron Fleet. (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by taylorreneegoodrich (approved!)

29:47 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys overrules Jorah's decision to leave her: "Do not walk away from your Queen, Jorah the Andal. You have not been dismissed. You swore to obey my commands for the rest of your life. Well, I command you to find the cure wherever it is in this world. I command you to heal yourself and then return to me." (Executive Decision)

32:04 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

High Priestess Kinvara signs on to Team Daenerys as the Lord of HYPE.

"You don't need to persuade me. I came to help. Daenerys Stormborn is the one who was promised. From the fire she was reborn to remake the world ... I will summon my most eloquent priests. They will spread the word. Daenerys has been sent to lead the people against the darkness in this war and in the great war still to come." (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

39:04 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walker King discovers the location of Bran and the Three-Eyed Raven after Bran's unsupervised usage of the Weirwood Palantir. (Secret Discovery)

45:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran's status as the Three Eyed Raven is confirmed by Benjen: "You are the Three-Eyed Raven now." (New Title)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

51:57 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walkers defeat the magical defenses of the Children of the Forest, slaughtering Leaf and her companions and killing the Three-Eyed Raven with their horde of wights. (Victorious Battle)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origin of Hodor's name and condition during a visit to Winterfell's past where he wargs into a young Wylas and gives him a vision of his ultimate demise years in the future at the Door. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

3:06 (+3) Sansa Stark:

to Littlefinger: "Did you know about Ramsay? If you didn't know you're an idiot. If you did know, you're my enemy." (Witty Insult)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

4:49 (+3) Sansa Stark:

to Littlefinger: "You said you would protect me... I don't believe you anymore... You can't protect me. You won't even be able to protect yourself if I tell Brienne to cut you down." (Threat)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

9:46 (+3) Jaqen H'ghar:

to Arya: "A girl has been given a second chance. There will not be a third. One way or another, a face will be added to the hall." (Threat)

20:40 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

"Little Theon. Heard you managed to fuck things right into the ground. Captured a castle you couldn't keep. Got yourself taken prisoner. Even heard you have no cock. Explains why you think a woman can be king." (Witty Insult)

Surely this is two, one against theon and one against yara -lordsparrington

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2016 May 23 wpearsal, dneanover, paolarodelas, alicehanners like this
I don't see how that's two, he is talking to Theon. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23 nyan likes this
Even if it were directed to both of them, one thing that's insulting to two people is still just one insult. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 23 nyan likes this

21:59 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Theon: "Last I heard, you were gallivanting around the world having a grand old time."
Euron: "Gallivanting? That the sort of thing you start to say once your dick gets chopped off?" (Witty Insult)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

22:58 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

"I'm going to build that fleet, and I'm going to gallivant right over and give it (the Iron Fleet) to Daenarys Targaryen, along with my big cock!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

42:47 (+3) Brienne of Tarth:

Brienne: "I don't like leaving you here alone."
Sansa: "With Jon?"
Brienne: "Not him. He seems trustworthy. A bit... brooding, perhaps. I suppose that's understandable, considering. The others, though. Davos and the Red Woman helped a man murder his own brother with bloodmagic... and that wildling fellow with the beard-" (Funny Line)

Deaths

51:13 (+10) Bran Stark:

Summer is cut down by a horde of wights in the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern as Bran, Meera, and Hodor make their escape. (Death)

52:46 (+10) Leaf:

Leaf sacrifices herself to detonate the magical hand grenade in the narrow cavern tunnel, engulfing a large horde of wights and allowing Meera, Hodor, and Bran more time to escape. (Death)

+1 for Alliser Thorne, +1 for Olly, +1 for Doran Martell, +1 for Trystane Martell, +1 for Areo Hotah

Special

16:02 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into the weirwood.net with the Three-Eyed Raven to revisit a scene with the Children of the Forest at the Weirwood tree. (Special)

34:36 (+3) Varys:

High Priestess Kinvara talks to Varys about his castration.
"If not for your... mutilation at the hand of a second-rate sorcerer, you wouldn't be here. Helping the Lord's Chosen bring his light into the world... Do you remember what you heard that night when the sorcerer tossed your parts in the fire?" (Special)

submitted by emilien.raggi (approved!)

36:51 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into weirwood.net while the Three-Eyed Raven is asleep, jumping into a vision of a frozen wasteland surrounded by wights and the White Walkers. (Special)

47:25 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran has a vision of the day his young father departed Winterfell for the Vale. (Special)

50:27 (+3) Bran Stark:

While embedded in a vision of Winterfell's past, Bran subconsciously wargs into Hodor in the present time so that they can escape from the White Walker horde approaching the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Special)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

While visiting a flashback in Winterfell's past, Bran wargs into a young Wylas, giving him a vision of his present day demise while holding the Door to allow Bran and Meera time to escape the White Walker horde. (Special)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

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