Matchup: The Pillar And The Stones vs Valar Morghulis for Ep 4

Getting Jon Snow some Greyscale armor

The Pillar And The Stones (dopeghoti)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#2	6	3	3
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and has sailed to Oldtown with Samwell as he begins his Maester's training.	#26	0	0	0
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment and subsequent infection with the fatal greyscale disease. As Daenerys leaves for Westeros, he wanders Essos in search of a cure.	#10	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#23	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#31	0	0	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#7	0	0	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys now pulls the political strings for Daenerys Targaryen, arranging alliances with the Westerosi Houses Tyrell and Martell. He controls a vast network of spies.	#18	0	0	0
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own. After her uncle Euron Greyjoy seizes control of the Iron Islands, she flees with Theon and her loyal troops to ally with Daenerys Targaryen, whose dragons and armies sail west to retake Westeros.	#15	0	0	0
Totals		6	3	3

Valar Morghulis (hollywangerin)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#3	243	234	6	3
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#6	12	0	9	3
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#27	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#11	0	0	0	0
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#22	0	0	0	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#14	0	0	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#19	0	0	0	0
Qyburn The new Master of Whispers in King's Landing, loyally serving Queen Cersei Lannister. A disgraced former Maester, he engages in many scientific experiments in his dungeon lab	#30	0	0	0	0
Totals		255	234	15	6

Kills

40:10 (+66) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys, riding on Drogon's back, breaks the line of Lannister soldiers with a breath of fire. "Dracarys." (Kill of Unnamed Character)

33 soldiers killed in the opening salvo:

25 visible on the Lannnister line - http://imgur.com/0qEMB2F
8 visible fleeing behind the line - http://imgur.com/1xqyL2U

Full screencap log of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi

The scoring methodology is similar to ones previous used for mass-kill scenes like the Battle of Blackwater, and the Sept of Baelor explosion, and Drogon's previous fights. All visible bodies that are dying or dead from the particular kill method are counted up (not too much debate this episode, since there were no other fire-wielders). However no further assumptions or speculations are made that a larger group must've died.

For instance in this event, the two shots cover all the visible soldiers - while one may reasonably assume that there are more burned soldiers along the line that are not visible behind the fireball, we can't see them and therefore they won't contribute to the kill count. -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 righteous, jake.kmiech, Lem Lemoncake, jgiuliano like this
Shouldn't Drogon get these points, not Daenerys? She was just riding him. :) -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
Yeah, just read Daenerys' game breaking rules. No point playing this unless you have her so... -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
People keep saying this ^ but I am literally 7th in my league rn even with Dany. Like all y'all need to chill -e.a.givney

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2017 Aug 10 Lem Lemoncake, alicehanners, jedjackoway, Laxis, 2 others like this

41:43 (+68) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and Drogon make a strafing run on the Lannister caravan, torching 34 soldiers and a dozen loot wagons in the process. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

34 soldiers in this overhead strafing run:

8 unsuspecting soldiers fighting off the Dothraki screamers - http://imgur.com/GDoImMo
5 in first overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/gddiaYS
3 in second overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/6CsF3JL
2 in third overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/0cPmxxT
5 in fourth overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/wRELUKt
5 in fifth overhead sequence, second breath - http://imgur.com/b5iMLBe
2 in sixth overhead sequence, second breath - http://imgur.com/lSZiCfZ
4 in landscape shot, third breath - http://imgur.com/JkZrF5H
alternate angle showing no collateral off-road damage in landscape shot -
http://imgur.com/2rXABWj

Full screencap of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 righteous, Lem Lemoncake, jgiuliano like this
Why is Daenerys getting points for another named characters kills? Drogon deserves these points, not his passenger.

And this even nails my point: "Full screencap of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan " It isn't Daenerys killing these characters, its DROGON. He's an intelligent being in the storyline. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
All the dragons actions are attributed to Dany. clearly says it in her special. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 10 kimberly.ramia likes this
Doesn't make the fact that she just got four seasons worth of points in one episode any less gamebreaking. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
Bruh Arya got 108 in one episode lol -e.a.givney

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2017 Aug 10 kimberly.ramia likes this

42:39 (+36) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and Drogon begin a second strafing run after a volley of arrows from Jaime Lannister's archers fail to have any effect. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

18 killed in the second strafing run:

7 in the strafing shot http://imgur.com/llrvfXd
4 running away and getting scorched - http://imgur.com/UIMLpnN
1 soldier engulfed in fire - http://imgur.com/rsbOE7S
3 burning bodies - http://imgur.com/dAdovFb
3 more burning bodies - http://imgur.com/kzeKDwy

Full screencap log of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 righteous, Lem Lemoncake, jgiuliano like this
I don't think we should count the bodies that are already burning. There's a very good chance these are bodies that were already counted from the initial blast. If we don't see them burnt from a specific blast (and not repeat shots of the same blast - which you did an excellent job of not counting those, by the way), then I don't think we should count them -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 IPKOB, playabills, emilien.raggi, charles.e.r.coutu, 2 others like this
I don't think we should count the bodies that are already burning. There's a very good chance these are bodies that were already counted from the initial blast. If we don't see them burnt from a specific blast (and not repeat shots of the same blast - which you did an excellent job of not counting those, by the way), then I don't think we should count them -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 IPKOB, playabills, emilien.raggi like this
p.s. I'm referring to #79-84 -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8
Why is Daenerys getting points for another named characters kills? Drogon deserves these points, not his passenger. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
Since this one shows up a little earlier in the event log, an extended discussion of the counting methodology for Dany/Drogon's kills can be found here: http://fantasora.com/event/3448 -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

44:07 (+6) Daenerys Targaryen:

As Bronn runs through the chaos of the battlefield, he shoves aside a burning Lannister soldier and encounters two other burning men. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

46:03 (+22) Daenerys Targaryen:

Jaime surveys the losing battle, witnessing a field of Lannister soldiers being burned alive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

3 burning soldiers in the field - http://imgur.com/BPYtj95
3 burning soldiers near water - http://imgur.com/dq6a1yV
5 burning soldiers as one removes his helmet and tries to make it to the water - http://imgur.com/3Ci9J1h

Full screencap log of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 jgiuliano and kimberly.ramia like this
Again, bodies burning without showing the blast = high chance we are double-counting -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 mrudd27, playabills, emilien.raggi, IPKOB, 3 others like this
Why is Daenerys getting points for another named characters kills? Drogon deserves these points, not his passenger. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10

46:31 (+32) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and Drogon go on a third strafing run, flying over the river and targeting Jaime Lannister's position. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

44 more comments - see full thread

Reading over the complaint of the few using direct scoring... I'm not convinced that should be my problem. I need all the points possible if I'm going to win overall, even though I'm in direct H2H. -righteous

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2017 Aug 15
Alright, here is the final resolution on this.

I see the problems caused by Daenerys' mega-event performance for the season-long Direct-Scoring leagues, and it seems unlikely that I'll convince most of these leagues to switch over into a new scoring format. To offer a pragmatic and generic solution specifically for these leagues, I've created a new Ruleset 5.0b, which is the same as Ruleset 5.0 except that it offers a per-episode point cap on character performance. Currently this cap has been hit only twice, with Daenerys getting a -143pt adjustment in E4 and Arya getting a -11 adjustment in E1.

You can preview these new scores on the Episode and League pages by appending the ?rulesetId=11 argument into the url. For example: http://fantasora.com/game/1/season/8/subunit/4?rulesetId=11

League Admins can switch the Ruleset at any time by visiting the Edit League page. I'd discuss this with the other players in your Leagues before unilaterally moving to it, but the choice is there for any League Admins.

In general, the counting methodology and Daenerys' points will remain as-is, which is that a classification of a body as "duplicate" will require some evidence that they are duplicates (unique insignia on the armor, or perhaps pinpointing exact locations). To that end, the arguments made in this thread weren't convincing enough, in light of the multiple Drogon strikes for which the impacts are not shown, and all the wagons being a fairly generic design (so "these two scenes both feature burning soldiers with wagons nearby" is not really credible when wagons were ubiquitous across the battlefield).

Hopefully this provides a clear counting methodology for the future, and provides an adequately balanced solution for the direct-scoring leagues this season. Roto and H2H leagues, as previously discussed, ought to handle the disputed ~30pts swing inherently with their scoring formats. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hindsight44, emilien.raggi, hkeseyan like this
Thank you nyan, this is a great solution -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

49:08 (+4) Daenerys Targaryen:

Drogon gets to roasts two consolation horses after Bronn tackles Jaime Lannnister out of the way from his ill-fated charge at Daenerys. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

13:00 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya convinces the Winterfell guards to allow her into the castle: "I'm getting into this castle one way or another. If I'm not who I say I am, I won't last long. But if I am, and Sansa finds you've turned me away..." (Convincing Argument)

19:51 (+3) Arya Stark:

At the Stark sibling reunion party, Bran regifts Littlefinger's Valyrian steel dagger to Arya.

Arya: "Are you sure? It's Valyrian steel."
Bran: "It's wasted on a cripple." (New Weapon)

23:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon reveals the ancient petroglyphs carved into the obsidian cave at Dragonstone, showing the Children of the Forest and the First Men fighting together against the White Walkers.

"There is something else I want to show you, Your Grace. The children of the forest made these. ... A very long time ago. They were right here, standing where we're standing. Before there were Targaryens or Starks or Lannisters. ... They were here together, the children and the First Men.
... They fought together against their common enemy. Despite their differences, despite their suspicions. Together. We need to do the same if we're going to survive. Because the enemy is real. It's always been real." (Secret Discovery)

29:38 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya asserts that Brienne's vow means that she serves her as well, compelling her to engage in a sparring match. "You swore to serve both my mother's daughters, didn't you?" (New Follower/Prisoner)

Not quite as formal as bending the knee to Sansa, but a pretty strong assertion and following through on the command for Arya. -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 jake.kmiech likes this
I would like to argue this is not gaining a new follower. Arya already knew Brienne had sworn her sword to her as we knew with the fight for the Hound. After she defeated the Hound Arya had to hide from Brienne because she was do dedicated to serving Arya.

Compare this to when Arya met with Nymeria this season. Nymeria showed zero interest in following Arya and decided to take her own path. Yet Arya still got points for a new army points. Even though Nymeria has shown she considers herself independent. This set the precedent that the follower/ followee relationship is set regardless of the followee wants the help of the follower. In short its not right that Nymeria is follower of Arya even though Nymeria rejected Arya and that Brienne isnt a follower of Arya because Arya rejected her. By the precedent set by the show Brienne has been a follower of Arya since her encounter with the Hound not this episode. If anythinf Arya is now Briennes follower in the sense that Arya wants to learn from Brienne how to fight. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 8
Clarification for Nymeria - it was Nymeria who acquired the "new army" of wolves, however all of these points transferred to Arya only because of her special ability which is that she gets points for anything Nymeria does. If Nymeria and Arya were separately draftable characters, Nymeria would have gotten the new army points and Arya would have gotten zero points for that scene.

If a character rejects a follower/title/castle/etc, it will not count. For example in S7E3 when Bran rejected Sansa naming him Lord of Winterfell. While Brienne made the pledge earlier and tried to assert it in the battle with the Hound, this is the first moment when Arya actually accepts that servitude. -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 jake.kmiech likes this
In S6E5 Dany stops Jorah from leaving and commands him to cure his greyscale. Previous to this point Jorah had been exiled and rejected by Dany. Yet she didnt get any points for new follower. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 8
If/when Jorah gets back to Dany and pledges his services again, she would get him back as a follower. -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 jake.kmiech and Lem Lemoncake like this

40:04 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Ignoring the stern advice of Tyrion and all her other advisors, Daenerys finally puts herself and her dragons into action, riding Drogon into the field of battle to attack the Lannister caravan. (Executive Decision)

49:30 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Although Drogon is injured, Daenerys and her Dothraki horde are successful in attacking the wagon train of Tyrell loot and breaking the Lannister army. (Victorious Battle)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

21:02 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Missandei: "Your Grace, there's still no word from the Unsullied."
Daenerys: "Soon, he (Grey Worm) will come back to you."
Missandei: "He better."
Daenerys: "What happened?"
Missandei: "Many things."
Daenerys: "... many things?" ? (Funny Line)

?? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 8
Wouldn't Missandei get the points instead of Dany? Dany just repeats what Missandei said -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 alicehanners likes this
I would give missandei the points instead of dany, she is the funny one in this conversation -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 8 alicehanners likes this
Yeah it's a bit of a toss up, or perhaps we should double count them for both? For me, if the scene ends on Missandei's line it's not that funny of a dialogue. It's Daenerys' line and then the knowing glances they exchange that make the scene. -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 Lem Lemoncake, jake.kmiech, dopeghoti, jayson.the.pirate like this
I don't even consider this scene as funny as some of the funny lines that were rejected before, particularly last week. If it was up to me I would give no points. I can see however that some people thought it was funny, but definitely not funny to get double counted. There have been a lot wittier back-and-forth exchanges that did not get counted either for double nor even single points. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 alicehanners likes this

29:56 (+3) Arya Stark:

Brienne: "You can't use that, My Lady, it's too small." (referring to Arya's sword, Needle)
Arya: "I won't cut you, don't worry." (Threat)

Special

32:38 (+3) Jon Snow:

Missandei: "Forgive me, but may I ask a question? ... Your name is Jon Snow, but your father's name is Ned Stark?"
Jon Snow: "I'm a bastard. My mother and father weren't married." (Special)

The Feels

20:20 (+0) Podrick Payne:

While watching on as the living Stark children together in the courtyard of Winterfell:

Podrick: "Catelyn Stark would be proud. You've kept your vow."
Brienne: "I did next to nothing."
Podrick: "You're too hard on yourself, My Lady."
Brienne: "I'm not- ...thank you, Podrick." (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

©
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