Matchup: A team has no name vs Team Stark for Ep 5

A team has no name (reardo2)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#18	12	3	6	3
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#7	3	3	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover, but has been left behind in Meereen to govern the city.	#30	0	0	0	0
Qyburn The new Master of Whispers in King's Landing, loyally serving Queen Cersei Lannister. A disgraced former Maester, he engages in many scientific experiments in his dungeon lab	#19	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#42	0	0	0	0
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although he is easily manipualted by Lord Petyr Baelish, who serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#43	0	0	0	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#6	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#31	0	0	0	0
Totals		15	6	6	3

Team Stark (nathanjsmith1991)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#16	18	3	15	0
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#4	6	6	0	0
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment and subsequent infection with the fatal greyscale disease. As Daenerys leaves for Westeros, he wanders Essos in search of a cure.	#21	6	0	0	6
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#9	0	0	0	0
Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.	#45	0	0	0	0
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#33	0	0	0	0
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#40	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#28	0	0	0	0
Totals		30	9	15	6

Political Wins

32:25 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is taken by Bronn to the dungeons beneath the Red Keep, where he finds his fugitive brother Tyrion who has arranged a meeting with him there. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

Dang, I am kind of regretting losing the "willfully told" provision. It was working as a decent catch-all to exclude a lot of stuff like this that does technically fit but we sort of know it is not a powerful secret that goes anywhere. Anyhow for consistency's sake I'll add it in, I feel like I want to do more thinking about Secrets next season. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 Lem Lemoncake likes this
damned if you do, damned if you don't -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
I think you should add the caveat that being willfully told a secret only counts if the only people who know the secret are the person telling the secret in the person being told secret. That still allows for secret discovery when it's not willingly told, but that puts an end to potential secret chains. What happens if Cersei told someone that Olenna killed Joffrey? What happens if that person tells them? Where does it end? -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15 nyan likes this
*and the person, not in the person -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

41:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting, Cersei agrees to the truce with Daenerys while they await for Jon to return with proof of the White Walker situation.

Cersei: "I've come to believe that an accommodation with the Dragon Queen could be in our immediate interest. She has the numbers. If we want to beat her, we have to be clever. We have to fight her like Father would have." (Deals Brokered)

48:41 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals several books and records from the restricted area of the library and abandons the Citadel with Gilly and little Sam.

Gilly: "Are you sure you want to do this? You always wanted to be a Maester."
Samwell: "I'm tired of reading about the achievements of better men." (Act of Betrayal)

53:29 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya breaks into Littlefinger's chambers and discovers the hidden raven letter, a note from Sansa Stark while she was held captive in King's Landing, asking Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee. (Secret Discovery)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

47:05 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Gilly: "Guess how many windows are in the Great Sept of Baelor.
Sam: "None anymore." (Funny Line)

47:58 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam goes on a rant to Gilly about the order of Maesters: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Special

17:18 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Qhono?: "This man says he is your friend, Khaleesi."
Daenerys: "He is my friend." (Special)

17:42 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Upon his return to Dragonstone, Jorah is introduced to the new Daario: "Jon Snow, this is Ser Jorah Mormont, an old friend." (Special)

46:49 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam reads from a book as he transcribes it onto a fresh set of paper, before handing it over to Baby Sam. (Special)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

The Feels

45:28 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

Tyrion and Jorah share a brief reunion before Jorah sails off to the Wall on Jon's expedition to kidnap a wight..

Tyrion: "This is the coin the slaver gave me when I suggested he free us and pay us, remember?"
Jorah: "It was supposed to last us the rest of our lives."
Tyrion: "Take it with you. But bring it back. Our Queen needs you." (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

Daenerys says her goodbyes to Jorah once again, as she takes his hands into hers.

Daenerys: "We should be better at saying farewell by now."
Jorah: "Your Grace, I-" (stunned speechless by actual physical contact) (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

9 more comments - see full thread

There's a few good articles and reddit threads about this but yeah I feel the same. I think running out of the pre-written book material, and deciding to just run with the 7 episodes of concrete content they had rather than flesh things out, has hurt them. On one hand, Benioff and Weiss were never going to be able to write out the same level of plot intricacies that GRRM would, and the attempts we've seen have been god awful (everything about Dorne, and I'd argue the treatment of Euron). But there are a lot of competent writers out there from other shows, I feel like they had the budget to create something here. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this
Theres no way the creators can say there wasnt enough material to make three more episodes. In e5 Gendry comes back, Jorah comes back, Bran sends a raven to dragon stone and they all end up at fucking eastwatch together. Not to mention cutting off a conversation half way through between Tyrion and Jaime that could have been a great fucking scene. Seriously missed opportunity. Also The brotherhood just magically going from the riverlands to eastwatch with no scenes in between. Im gonna beyond pissed if the writers dont take advantage of The Hound and Tormund being together.Also Dorne is a great example, usually the show is really good at atleast representing who the characters are if they cant fit in the plot points. But they just glossed over Doran and made him look like a pussy and Areo Hotah didnt kill one fucking person. The board probably got together and realized they would make the same revenue by making either 7 or 10 episodes. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 18 nyan and hkeseyan like this
Yeah there was a ton more for Jaime-Tyrion! This was their first meeting since S4! All the pent up resentment, Jaime discovering that Tyrion wasn't behind Joffrey after all, Tyrion thinking he'd almost lose his brother for that stupid charge against the dragon! And instead after 10s Jaime just interrupts his brother so they can move on to talking about what Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Cersei want to do. grrr -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

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