Matchup: Hodor! Hodor! vs BornToBeWildling for Ep 6

Hodor! Hodor! (katherinedreyer20)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#4	95	86	3	3	3
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She's into whips.	#40	0	0	0	0	0
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#33	0	0	0	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#28	0	0	0	0	0
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#45	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#9	0	0	0	0	0
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own. After her uncle Euron Greyjoy seizes control of the Iron Islands, she flees with Theon and her loyal troops to ally with Daenerys Targaryen, whose dragons and armies sail west to retake Westeros.	#21	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#16	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		95	86	3	3	3

BornToBeWildling (sshevlin21)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Special
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#34	82	70	3	9
Ornela (Dothraki Widow from Lhazareen) A young Dothraki widow from Dosh Khaleen. She follows Daenerys Targaryen after she defeats the other Khals by burning them alive inside the Temple of Dosh Khaleen.	#46	0	0	0	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#10	0	0	0	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys now pulls the political strings for Daenerys Targaryen, arranging alliances with the Westerosi Houses Tyrell and Martell. He controls a vast network of spies.	#27	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#39	0	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#15	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#22	0	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#3	0	0	0	0
Totals		82	70	3	9

Kills

26:02 (+5) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric smacks his flaming sword onto the wight bear, setting it on fire. (Major Injury of Named Character)

Ah, named character "The Wight Bear" -derekjjjj

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2017 Aug 23 theripleymanor likes this
His name was Jeremy and he was a good bear. -theripleymanor

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, nyan, hkeseyan, emilien.raggi, 2 others like this
To clarify, this is following along from the "boss fight" criteria that upgrades the status of these characters even if they have no name.

But I like Jeremy, I may add him into the draftables for future rewatch seasons. -nyan

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, emilien.raggi, Lem Lemoncake like this

27:36 (+1) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric applies his flaming sword to cauterize the chest wounds suffered by Thoros at the paws of the wight bear. (Minor Injury of Named Character)

32:56 (+2) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric slices through a wight during the ambush on the White Walker scouting party. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

33:06 (+10) Jon Snow:

After dodging a blow, Jon slices through the White Walker leading the scouting party with Longclaw, shattering it to pieces. (Kill of Named Character)

33:07 (+14) Jon Snow:

7 of the wights in the scouting party disintegrate after Jon kills the White Walker leading them.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

15 more comments - see full thread

It feels incredibly unfair to not count the deaths as kills. Those 7 Wights died as a result of a combat situation, the kills need to be attributed. The surrender analogy does not work, in a normal situation the surrendering soldiers would be taken captive because they are alive and still functioning. In this scenario the wights couldn't be captured because they were destroyed due to Jon's actions, the wight they DID capture can more accurately be seen as a surrender. If anything, this resembles an execution of prisoners, where Jon passed the judgement and swung the sword.

Also I agree that it is unfair to remove the points after a week, where no new arguments were brought up to strengthen the case for removal. -brandonthebigB

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2017 Aug 28 hindsight44 likes this
When soldiers surrender you have gained an asset or at the very least levrage. There is a specific advantage to gaining surrendered soldiers that is not at play here. They were once functional wights that would kill any living thing and now theyre nothing. The rules state that kills are counted regardless of reason. Jon Snows actions directly led those 7 wights dying........again -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 28
Yeah the delay in scoring update is my bad, I've ended up on another spotty-internet week during travel for this one and wasn't able to do these earlier. The summer run for S7 has really caused some conflicts with travel, I'll have to figure out the S8 schedule much better.

I think you guys are right from a scorekeeping purity standpoint. The wights went from soldiers to being dead because of this action, to call it a surrender can work as a stretch but yes, it is a stretch we'd be making to find a way to discount the points. I started thinking about parallel examples, with a very basic kill switch action that causes large numbers of deaths. You might say Bronn igniting the Blackwater Bay wildfire, or a hypothetical Qyburn's little bird igniting the wildfire underneath the Sept of Baelor, and I think most players would readily accept those as valid scores.

Giving it some further thought, I did have that same first impression of "cheapness" as most of the others who initially commented. I think that comes from having such a directly comparable set of kills in the exact same scene - the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, et. al. are busy hacking away at the wights for their measly 1-2 kills each, and then Jon swoops in with an easy 7-kill swing. But it can be fine that some kills are cheaper than others, and while a jackpot scenario may exist in the future with whoever takes down the Night King, it's a much more equitable free-for-all for any character to achieve, unlike say Daenerys' dragon roastings.

Perhaps with better per-league tools, we can again have multiple rulesets for S8 that could include or exclude the wight-follower kills.

Anyhow for this one, I'll go back to the original decision which is to count the 7 as kills. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, emilien.raggi like this

47:17 (+34) Jon Snow:

Jon cuts down 17 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group, up until Daenerys and her dragons arrive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

47:29 (+62) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric cuts down 31 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

52:39 (+20) Jon Snow:

Jon realizes he is currently only 4th place on the Kills leaderboard, and climbs back down off of Drogon to score 10 more wight kills in garbage time, as all the others wisely get onboard. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:34 (+8) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow cuts down four wights after witnessing Viseron's death, before realizing that trying to cut his way to the Night King for a 1v1 was a terrible idea and that he should really get back to the dragon evac. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

33:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow and his crew successfully ambush the White Walker scouting party, killing the leader and capturing the live wight they were looking for. (Victorious Battle)

39:38 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric says a brief prayer for Thoros after they discover him perished in the night. "Lord of Light, show us the way. Come to us in our darkness and lead your servant into the light ... Lord of Light, come to us in our darkness. For the night is dark and full of terrors." (House Words)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Same argument as for jon, did you already scored this for melissandre or another priestess (or even beric before? I don't recall if he already said that in previous seasons) ? -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 23
This was added as House Words for "religious leaders", from the rulebook:

> Religious leaders (not basic worshippers) also have "dual citizenship", gaining points for their common religious phrases.

I think it could be argued Beric is not technically a priest, however he's the most ardent Lord of Light fanatic we have going now. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 emilien.raggi and jedjackoway like this
Okay I agree then, it makes sense :) -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 24

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:16 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tormund Giantsbane: "I can breathe again. Down south the air smells like pigshit."
Jon Snow: "You've never been down south."
Tormund: "I've been to Winterfell."
Jon: "That's the North." (Funny Line)

Special

25:49 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric lights his sword on fire as the wight bear descends on the party. (Special)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

It was badass, but I assume they're gonna do it in every fight, which would include some automatism as well? I liked the part where Beric lit up his sword to burn out Thoros' wound - if I understood that correctly :D So maybe a special would be points for every time lighting up a sword for non-fighting purposes. However, I have no idea if this will ever happen again.
Generally, the swordsonfire are fooken awesome, so I'd be fine with them getting points for it, even if it means to automatic extra points for every fight. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 22
I was thinking the ignition scenes where they are shown lighting it up, but not just for the flaming sword being already on. -nyan

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2017 Aug 22 Lem Lemoncake likes this
I like that special as well. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 22
When he burnt Thoros' wound, it was already on fire from the fight with the bear -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 22
I forgot I had already given Beric one for everytime he fights with the flaming sword. I'm going to just change it to the ignition - it's a cooler moment than just seeing him in the background with the sword, and the points should be the same (he had 1 fight scene without showing the ignition, but also ignited it once to burn Thoros' body which wasn't a fight). -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 jake.kmiech and emilien.raggi like this

40:06 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric lights up his flaming sword to cremate the remains of Thoros of Myr. (Special)

47:04 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric lights up his firesaber as the wight army approaches over the re-frozen ice. (Special)

54:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow drops Longclaw on the frozen ice sheet after he is tackled under water by the wights during the dragon evacuation. (Special)

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