Matchup: EUUUUROOOONNNN JENNNKINNNNSSSSS vs The Manning Faced God for Ep 3

M.V.TREE

EUUUUROOOONNNN JENNNKINNNNSSSSS (creamerica)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Special
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#6	52	21	0	5	20	6
Euron Greyjoy The new King of the Iron Islands, after killing his brother Balon Greyjoy. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#19	30	9	12	0	0	9
Davos Seaworth Formerly Hand of the King to Stannis Baratheon, Davos now advises Jon Snow. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#18	6	0	3	0	0	3
Tormund Giantsbane Formerly a lieutenant of Mance Rayder, the King beyond the Wall, Tormund is now the de facto leader of the Wildlings and a reasoned voice in rallying them behind the cause of Jon Snow.	#30	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#7	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		88	30	15	5	20	18

The Manning Faced God (cgrnbrg)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Special
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#21	19	5	0	9	5	0
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#4	15	0	3	6	0	6
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#28	3	0	0	0	0	3
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#9	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#16	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		37	5	3	15	5	9

Kills

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After seizing Highgarden, the defeated Olenna Tyrell sits in her prisoner as a prisoner of Jaime Lannister. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

With his succesful destruction of Yara Greyjoy's fleet and the "gift" of the captured Ellaria and Tyene Sand, Euron wins over Cersei and convinces her to ally with his Ironborn and accept his marriage proposal. (Convincing Argument)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Original submission by @hkeseyan:

Euron has convinced Cersei to accept his hand in marriage. Cersei: ""You shall have what your heart desires"

Cersei has apparently accepted Euron's proposal for his hand in marriage from back in episode 1. Scoring for this event was delayed until we see confirmation that Cersei agrees to the deal, which we receive in this episode. Cersei has given Euron her word that he will receive his reward, in front of Jaime Lannister and the court, as we see Jaime uncomfortably react to her words. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2
I think it's fine that Cersei still says, "...after the war is won". Like Robert's order to send assassins for Daenerys, it's fine if the order is not carried out to completion, just that the course of action was decided upon. In addition, he does still convince Cersei to ally with the Ironborn and name him head of the Royal Navy. Although that's kind of trivial because it's basically all Ironborn ships at this point. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

23:28 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Cersei accepts Euron Greyjoy's proposal of an alliance, appointing him as the head of the navy of the Seven Kindgoms. (New Title)

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

55:21 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

As the Unsullied are busy attacking Casterly Rock, Euron's Iron Fleet ambushes their ships, destroying the Unsullied navy and cutting off any sea-based escape route in the process.

Jaime Lannister to Olenna Tyrell: "They won't be able to hold it (Casterly Rock). Euron Greyjoy's navy burned their ships, we emptied the larders before we left. Eventually, they'll be forced to abandon their position and march all the way across Westeros." (Victorious Battle)

7 more comments - see full thread

Jaime's dialogue seems to confirm it is Euron leading them, and there aren't any other Ironborn fleets led by anyone else at the moment. Giving Dany points here would be like giving Cersei credit for everything Euron and Jaime do.

I do think Tyrion is deserving of something for the plan, but he wasn't there to execute it and I'm not sure what the scoring category would be like. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
We should assume Euron's ship Silence being prominently shown (as it has in every episode this season) means Euron is present, unless explicitly seen under the command of someone else. Just like the rule change with Dany's dragons.

As for Tyrion - he was only sort-of successful. His plan worked in terms of obtaining the castle, but it failed horribly in terms of making progress towards winning the war. I don't think you can expect Dany would be too happy with Tyrion's plan. Jaime sure was happy about it, though. His strategy likely doomed Dany's most trusted army. Grey Worm still gets points for winning the physical battle and actually capturing the castle, but Tyrion as a war strategist did not have a victory here. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake, nyan, alexanderdropkin like this
Good argument about the Silence - didn't notice or think of that :) -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime's offer to Randyll Tarly to rebel against the Tyrells appears to have been accepted, as the Tarly's ride with the Lannister army on the assault on Highgarden. (Convincing Argument)

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Randyll Tarly allies with the Lannisters, taking Jaime Lannister's offer to become Warden of the South and marching with the Lannister army against the Tyrells. (New Follower/Prisoner)

See - if Jaime recruiting a new follower for Cersei counts for her, and Euron's fleet's points are his, shouldn't any of Dany's forces' points count for her as well? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
Or: This should probably bis Jaime's points :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
This one is a bit nebulous. Tarly has no interaction with Cersei and is arguably a lieutenant to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Agree, here I think Jaime should get the point not Cercei, we clearly see him with bronn following the "leader" jaime for this battle.
And I don't think Dany should get the points for her forces -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1 alexanderdropkin and playabills like this

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Victorious Battle)

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

58:31 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is in possession of the Valyrian steel sword, Widow's Wail. "How will you do it? With that sword? That was Joffrey's sword, wasn't it? Not that he ever used it. What did he call it?" Jaime: "Widow's Wail." (New Weapon)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

In her dying moments, Olenna Tyrell reveals to Jaime that she was Joffrey's killer.

"I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes bloodred, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me ... You see, I had never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Per the previous discussion about Edd, we were considering elimination of the "willingly told" criteria and instead allowing scores if they are the only person to know the secret outside of the secret holder: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

This one seems to fit a similar criteria to Edd's discovery of Bran. Though it could be argued the identity of Joffrey's killer is irrelevant at this point? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I think that even if it is "willingly told", it is an important discovery for Jaime and only a few people know (maybe dead? Margeary <3). So the question is more about, Is this really a secret important for the plot and the story. But for Jaime it is. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1
It is definitely a secret discovery. And especially for Jaime it is crucial information because now his beloved brother who he freed and so forth is not guilty of the one crime that Jaime may not have ever been able to forgive him. Plus: Now Cersei's main legitimization for wanting Tyrion dead has to switch from regicide/nephicide to treason or whatever they call it :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and emilien.raggi like this
Ooh @Lem very good points about the implications to Tyrion! -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I personally like the "willingly told" criteria of the rule. A huge part of everything we see on screen is a secret in one way or another to other character's in the show. Without the "willingly told" clause this rule could start to run away with points. For example every named character in winterfell would have just gotten points for finding out that Bran is still alive, do we really want 10+ characters getting points for finding out a secret each episode? -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise that was the initial reason for the "willingly told" criteria, definitely something like Bran coming to Winterfell is now just new information, not a valuable secret. The new idea is the criteria that someone is the first/only person to know of a secret, since that gives them exclusive power to act on that information. That would seem to fit Jaime's situation (he could exonerate Sansa and Tyrion with this info). -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Yara, mocking Theon's reaction during their battle on her ship: "*Ohhh noooo!* What a twat." (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "There's nothing like it is there, the love of the people ... but I suppose you wouldn't know". (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

9:39 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Missandei: "You stand in the presence of Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, rightful heir to the Iron Throne, rightful Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Mother of Dragons, the Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, the Breaker of Chains."
Davos: "This is Jon Snow." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

23:55 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Jaime Lannister: "...if you turn on us, they'll cheer to have your severed head mounted on a spike."
Euron: "Or yours. They just like severed heads, really." (Threat)

24:08 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Funny Line)

submitted by jbornstein89 (approved!)

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

29:27 (+5) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime takes a drink in Cersei's chambers as we all try to collectively erase the imagery of Euron sticking Cersei with the pointy end. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

30:10 (+20) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime gets his trousers dropped as Cersei is feeling extra thirsty after another exhilarating session of dungeon torturing her enemies. (Act of Intercourse)

14 more comments - see full thread

@hindsight44 I made a clarification here after @ssantise brought it up, the intention was to double the acts but not everything related to the scene: http://fantasora.com/event/3308

The scoring should be about what the viewers see. So they get credit for the on-screen butts and nudity. Presumably every sex scene (even the PG ones), all the characters see all the parts so the scoring wouldn't really work that way. We also previously defined that you need to touch one of these parts to count as sex, so just seeing each other wouldn't count. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
what's the verdict on this? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3
Let's go with just a double of all the sex points (the nudity and the act), so the points remain as they are currently. It's quite powerful, but so far this is the first and only instance in 7 seasons that we got incest-related nudity out of either character. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

Special

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

4:24 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Tyrion Lannister greets Ser Davos on his arrival to Dragonstone: "Ah, the Onion Knight" (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

20:58 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Yara: "Look at them, cheering for a Greyjoy. I have to be honest, this is making me hard." (Special)

22:57 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Cersei: "You've proven yourself the greatest captain of the Fourteen Seas." (Special)

24:08 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

24:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Euron asks Jaime for advice on pleasing Cersei: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

50:08 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Archmaester Ebrose: "It's a meticulous, difficult procedure. Many Maesters whose chains are heavy with healing links have attempted it and failed. Yet you succeeded. How?"
Sam: "I read the books and followed the instructions." (Special)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Olenna Tyrell: "I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes blood red, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father." (Special)

Would this also be a secret discovery? -easson27

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2017 Aug 1
There's a provision that the secret can't be "willingly told" by the secret holder, but we just had a lengthy debate that points towards removing that criteria: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

With the new criteria used for Edd, it possibly counts - Jaime is the only person who knows at this point and is in a position to disseminate that information. I've created it as a submission here: http://fantasora.com/event/3344 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
Didn't you already give him points for this earlier in the thread?? -benmfink414

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2017 Aug 4

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