Matchup: Varys My Dragons? vs Jon McBroodsters for Ep 6

Tywin, Lose, or Draw!

Varys My Dragons? (annebowersox)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths
Tormund Giantsbane Formerly a lieutenant of Mance Rayder, the King beyond the Wall, Tormund is now the de facto leader of the Wildlings and a reasoned voice in rallying them behind the cause of Jon Snow.	#21	68	50	0	18	0
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#35	29	24	0	0	5
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#8	15	0	3	12	0
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#7	0	0	0	0	0
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#22	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She's into whips.	#36	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		112	74	3	30	5

Jon McBroodsters (katrujillo21)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#5	95	86	3	3	3
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment and subsequent infection with the fatal greyscale disease. As Daenerys leaves for Westeros, he wanders Essos in search of a cure.	#24	67	64	3	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#19	0	0	0	0	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#10	0	0	0	0	0
Meera Reed The eldest child of Howland Reed, bannerman to the Starks. She assists Bran in his journeys north of the Wall and is the only other surviving member of his party.	#33	0	0	0	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and has sailed to Oldtown with Samwell as he begins his Maester's training.	#38	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		162	150	6	3	3

Kills

26:47 (+10) Jorah Mormont:

As the wight bear mauls a helpless Thoros, Jorah runs in to stab it with his dragonglass dagger, killing the bear and saving Thoros. (Kill of Named Character)

32:57 (+2) Jorah Mormont:

Jorah slices across a wight during the attack on the White Walker scouting party. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

33:06 (+10) Jon Snow:

After dodging a blow, Jon slices through the White Walker leading the scouting party with Longclaw, shattering it to pieces. (Kill of Named Character)

33:07 (+14) Jon Snow:

7 of the wights in the scouting party disintegrate after Jon kills the White Walker leading them.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

15 more comments - see full thread

It feels incredibly unfair to not count the deaths as kills. Those 7 Wights died as a result of a combat situation, the kills need to be attributed. The surrender analogy does not work, in a normal situation the surrendering soldiers would be taken captive because they are alive and still functioning. In this scenario the wights couldn't be captured because they were destroyed due to Jon's actions, the wight they DID capture can more accurately be seen as a surrender. If anything, this resembles an execution of prisoners, where Jon passed the judgement and swung the sword.

Also I agree that it is unfair to remove the points after a week, where no new arguments were brought up to strengthen the case for removal. -brandonthebigB

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2017 Aug 28 hindsight44 likes this
When soldiers surrender you have gained an asset or at the very least levrage. There is a specific advantage to gaining surrendered soldiers that is not at play here. They were once functional wights that would kill any living thing and now theyre nothing. The rules state that kills are counted regardless of reason. Jon Snows actions directly led those 7 wights dying........again -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 28
Yeah the delay in scoring update is my bad, I've ended up on another spotty-internet week during travel for this one and wasn't able to do these earlier. The summer run for S7 has really caused some conflicts with travel, I'll have to figure out the S8 schedule much better.

I think you guys are right from a scorekeeping purity standpoint. The wights went from soldiers to being dead because of this action, to call it a surrender can work as a stretch but yes, it is a stretch we'd be making to find a way to discount the points. I started thinking about parallel examples, with a very basic kill switch action that causes large numbers of deaths. You might say Bronn igniting the Blackwater Bay wildfire, or a hypothetical Qyburn's little bird igniting the wildfire underneath the Sept of Baelor, and I think most players would readily accept those as valid scores.

Giving it some further thought, I did have that same first impression of "cheapness" as most of the others who initially commented. I think that comes from having such a directly comparable set of kills in the exact same scene - the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, et. al. are busy hacking away at the wights for their measly 1-2 kills each, and then Jon swoops in with an easy 7-kill swing. But it can be fine that some kills are cheaper than others, and while a jackpot scenario may exist in the future with whoever takes down the Night King, it's a much more equitable free-for-all for any character to achieve, unlike say Daenerys' dragon roastings.

Perhaps with better per-league tools, we can again have multiple rulesets for S8 that could include or exclude the wight-follower kills.

Anyhow for this one, I'll go back to the original decision which is to count the 7 as kills. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, emilien.raggi like this

47:17 (+34) Jon Snow:

Jon cuts down 17 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group, up until Daenerys and her dragons arrive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

47:20 (+52) Jorah Mormont:

Jorah cuts down 26 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

48:28 (+50) Tormund Giantsbane:

Tormund kills 25 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

52:39 (+20) Jon Snow:

Jon realizes he is currently only 4th place on the Kills leaderboard, and climbs back down off of Drogon to score 10 more wight kills in garbage time, as all the others wisely get onboard. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:34 (+8) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow cuts down four wights after witnessing Viseron's death, before realizing that trying to cut his way to the Night King for a 1v1 was a terrible idea and that he should really get back to the dragon evac. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

57:29 (+14) Benjen Stark:

Benjen knocks out 5 wights with his flaming flail and his horse runs over 2 more while he rides in to the ice lake battlefield to rescue Jon Snow. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

57:36 (+6) Benjen Stark:

After emerging from the cloud of smoke, 3 wights are knocked down at the end of Benjen's run as he approaches Jon Snow across the icy shore. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Benjen is swinging his flail preceding this, but it's all in a hazy cloud of smoke/mist and you can't make out any wights or bodies getting killed until the end. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23
What about the "clunk" sound you hear when he hits them in the head? -jimmy.tague

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2017 Aug 23 nyan, jake.kmiech, Lem Lemoncake like this
That could be good enough evidence, 1 kill per unseen "clunk" -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 bookworm13457 and power.suit like this
This may be my favorite ruling of the season -bookworm13457

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2017 Aug 23 jake.kmiech likes this

58:22 (+4) Benjen Stark:

A horseless Benjen manages to knock out two more wights with his flaming flail before succumbing to the wight horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

33:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow and his crew successfully ambush the White Walker scouting party, killing the leader and capturing the live wight they were looking for. (Victorious Battle)

40:55 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Jorah figures out that the White Walkers have some kind of hive-like control over the wight.

"When you killed the White Walker, almost all the dead that followed it fell. We can go for the Walkers. Maybe we'll stand a chance." (Secret Discovery)

62:12 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya catches Sansa in the act of searching through her room for the copy of the compromising raven letter. "Not what you're looking for?" (Secret Discovery)

Whats the secret here? That Sansa was snooping? -kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 23
Illegal warrantless searches. This is like Snowden exposing Sansa's secret government backdoor into all the supposedly private chambers of Winterfell. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23
But yes, perhaps this is too minor of a secret to count. Doesn't quite have huge political ramifications to know that Sansa is a snooper, although it certainly breaks their trust further. Littlefinger got a similar score last week for catching Arya. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:16 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tormund Giantsbane: "I can breathe again. Down south the air smells like pigshit."
Jon Snow: "You've never been down south."
Tormund: "I've been to Winterfell."
Jon: "That's the North." (Funny Line)

4:25 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Gendry: "How do you live up here? How d'you keep your balls from freezing off?"
Tormund: "You've got to keep moving, that's the secret. Walking's good, fighting's better, fucking's best."
Jon Snow: "There's not a living woman within 100 miles of here."
Tormund, eyeing Gendry: "We have to make do with what we've got." (Funny Line)

5:06 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Jon Snow: "She will only fight beside us if I bend the knee."
Tormund: "You spent too much time with the Free Folk. Now you don't like kneeling." (Witty Insult)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

14:05 (+3) Arya Stark:

to Sansa: "What would little Lyanna Mormont say? She's younger than you were when you wrote this. Are you going to say 'But I was just a child'?" (Threat)

14:20 (+3) Arya Stark:

Sansa Stark: "You're angry. Sometimes anger makes people do unfortunate things."
Arya: "Sometimes fear makes them do unfortunate things. I'll go with anger." (Comeback)

15:18 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Tormund: "Were your born mean, or you just hate Wildlings?"
Sandor Clegane: "I could not give two shits about Wildlings. Gingers, I hate."
Tormund: "Gingers are beautiful. Kissed by fire." (Funny Line)

15:41 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Sandor Clegane: "You want to suck my dick, is that it?"
Tormund: "Dick?"
Sandor: "Cock."
Tormund: "Ah, dick. I like it." (Funny Line)

16:18 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Sandor Clegane: "You're with Brienne of fucking Tarth?"
Tormund: "Well, not with her yet. But I see the way she looks at me."
Sandor: "How does she look at you? Like she wants to carve you up and eat your liver?"
Tormund: "You do know her." (Funny Line)

16:29 (+3) Tormund Giantsbane:

Tormund: "I want to make babies with her - think of them. Great big monsters. They'd conquer the world." (Funny Line)

submitted by Laxis (approved!)

62:16 (+3) Arya Stark:

Sansa Stark: " I have hundreds of men here at Winterfell, all loyal to me."
Arya: "They're not here now." (Threat)

64:41 (+3) Arya Stark:

to Sansa: "Neither of us got to be the other person, did we? The world doesn't just let girls decide what they are going to be. But I can now. With the faces I can choose. I can become someone else. Speak in their voice, live in their skin. I can even become you. I wonder what it would feel like to wear those pretty dresses. To be the Lady of Winterfell. All I'd need to find out is your face." (Threat)

Deaths

58:28 (+5) Benjen Stark:

Uncle "there's no time" Benjen succumbs to the horde of wights a full 52 seconds after sending Jon away with his horse. (Death)

Special

54:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow drops Longclaw on the frozen ice sheet after he is tackled under water by the wights during the dragon evacuation. (Special)

©
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