Event: Jon Snow - Kill of Named Character (Kills)

52:44 (+10) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow gives Mance a mercy kill, shooting an arrow through his heart before he is consumed by a burning pyre. (Kill of Named Character)

Sniped away TWO kill events from Stannis (for ordering the execution) and Melisandre (who physically lit the pyre)! -nyan

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2015 Apr 14
I don't see why Stannis isn't getting credit/partial credit for ordering the Kill? Mance is dead because of Stannis's decision to have him killed.
Thought experiment: If Stannis had ordered death by hanging and the executioner had instead beheaded Mance, would Stannis have not gotten credit then as well? -moonbaseu92

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2015 Apr 14
This is an interesting point - I think your thought experiment definitely hits on a grey area (and I'd love to hear more opinions!).

For this event, I think it's a bit more clear cut - an ordered kill counts if it's given to someone and they can carry out the order without requiring any skill (e.g. Joffrey giving the order to Ilyn Payne). In this case, that order was given to Melisandre to start lighting the fire. Stannis never gave any orders to Jon Snow, who acted of his own accord. -nyan

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2015 Apr 14
It is certainly a grey area. Jon gave Mance the death blow and I think he should probably get full credit for the kill, but had he not given him mercy, Mance still would have died at the hands of Stannis and Melisandre, so I feel like they should be getting some credit for it, or at least Stannis for ordering it. Hard to say. -wpearsal

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2015 Apr 14
I don't know if it makes a difference now 'cause I won my round anyway without the points from Stannis but I think he should probably get some points for it, even if Jon hadn't interfered Mance still would've died. Jon wouldn't have shot Mance if Stannis wasn't burning him. I think Jon should still get points for it but I think Stannis should at least get a couple. -kas113

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2015 Apr 14
To explain more about the philosophy, one of the important parts of the scorekeeping is that it can objectively follow definitions, without requiring judgment calls on the part of some scorekeeper (which can be subjective). In this case, I agree with both of you that Stannis probably "deserves" some credit - without his actions, Mance wouldn't have been put in a position to be killed. But "put in a position to be killed" is a little murky to make a rule for - how do you draw the line? Is it really Melisandre that puts him in that position because she starts the fire burning?

Given that, I think it's better to stick to the scoring definitions, because there's no subjectivity to them. And sometimes it results in a "deserving" character losing points, but that's fantasy sometimes - just like a football RB who hauls his team to the goal line, only for the backup to sub in and score the 1yd touchdown. -nyan

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2015 Apr 14 moonbaseu92 and coconnor723 like this
I agree with Nyan. Riddle me this: If someone (King A) commands his executioner (Brute) to kill the shopgirl (Lass), and Lass flees to Other Country where she is run over by a cart and dies, does King A get the point? Everyone's actions contribute. The point is, Mance was killed by Jon Snow. Jon Snow was NOT commanded to kill him by Stannis. Therefore, it's not a commanded kill. -alicehanners

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2015 Apr 19
That's different because Mance didn't escape from the fire and run away while Jon shot at him to keep him from escaping. He was in the process of dying. Even if Jon hadn't intervened, he still would've been dead. I know Stannis won't get points for that, and I don't care, I'm just saying that I disagree with your example. -kas113

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2015 Apr 21 moonbaseu92 likes this

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