Matchup: The Night is Long and Full of Monsters vs Khaleesi Me, Now You Don't for Ep 3

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The Night is Long and Full of Monsters (kfarrier08)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Tyrion Lannister Quick to wit and even quicker to the drink, Tyrion is the youngest of three Lannister children. After being exiled by his sister Cersei, he has joined with Daenerys Targaryen, serving as her Hand of the Queen and most trusted adviser.	#3	21	6	15	0
Davos Seaworth Formerly Hand of the King to Stannis Baratheon, Davos now advises Jon Snow. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#10	6	0	3	3
Lyanna Mormont The spunky young head of House Mormont.	#34	0	0	0	0
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#39	0	0	0	0
Gendry A bastard son of Robert Baratheon, although this fact is not widely known (even to Gendry himself). After being captured by Melisandre, he is freed by Ser Davos and escaped Dragonstone by rowboat. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but he will likely emerge at some point with the swolest arms Westeros has ever seen.	#22	0	0	0	0
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although he is easily manipualted by Lord Petyr Baelish, who serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#46	0	0	0	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#15	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#27	0	0	0	0
Totals		27	6	18	3

Khaleesi Me, Now You Don't (edmonsonat)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#26	30	24	6	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#11	19	5	0	9	5
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#14	3	0	3	0	0
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#2	3	0	0	3	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#38	0	0	0	0	0
Tormund Giantsbane Formerly a lieutenant of Mance Rayder, the King beyond the Wall, Tormund is now the de facto leader of the Wildlings and a reasoned voice in rallying them behind the cause of Jon Snow.	#23	0	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#47	0	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover, but has been left behind in Meereen to govern the city.	#35	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		55	29	9	12	5

Kills

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

53:50 (+2) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm slits the throat of a Lannister guard, after sneaking past the walls of Casterly Rock via the sewer tunnels. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

It is a little difficult to differentiate Grey Worm from the rest of the Unsullied, but he has a badge with three dragons on the clavicle of his armor which seems to be unique to him, which was used to identify him in the battle scenes: http://imgur.com/a/BGogM

This first kill is the only ambiguous one as the clavicle piece is not visible, but it seems to credibly be him based on the parts of face that are visible. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
The shield kills that are being counting aren't confirmed kills. Minor injuries at best. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
which is 8 of his point this episode. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
In the rulebook for Kills.IV we have a rule for: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes."

It's just a lot easier to count, else there are a lot of nitpicky debates that some strike is on a non-fatal region, or the shield bash didn't look strong enough, etc. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

54:22 (+8) Grey Worm :

Leading the Unsullied, Grey Worm stabs two Lannister soldiers while charging the stairs, and smashes two more with his shield. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:29 (+14) Grey Worm :

At the top of the stairs, Grey Worm kills 7 Lannister soldiers, throwing his spear to impale the last one against a door. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

36:48 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

After Jon Snow resigns himself to giving up on an alliance with Daenerys and returning to the North empty-handed, Tyrion convinces him to stay and find a compromise deal, leading him to ask for the dragonglass.

Tyrion: "After a single meeting, it's not a reasonable thing to ask. So, do you have anything reasonable to ask?"
Jon: "What do you mean?"
Tyrion: "Maybe you are a Northern fool. I'm asking if there's something I can do to help you." (Convincing Argument)

38:53 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion convinces Daenerys to give Jon Snow the dragonglass as a gesture of good faith with the North. "Let him mine the Dragonglass. If he's wrong, it's worthless. You didn't even know it was here. It's nothing to you. Give him something by giving him nothing. Take a step toward a more productive relationship with a possible ally." (Convincing Argument)

51:27 (+3) Missandei:

Missandei convinces Daenerys against flying out herself to hunt down Euron Greyjoy's Iron Fleet.

Tyrion: "You'd be flying around the open seas alone for who knows how long."
Daenerys: "I wouldn't be alone. I would have Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal. What can anyone do to them?"
Missandei: "They can still do something to you. It only takes one arrow." (Convincing Argument)

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Victorious Battle)

Greywoem may have won the battle, but isn't it Danaerys who actually wins the castle? -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Did he win the castle? Or did Euron trap him in the castle? -Th3 JaBBeRWoCK

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2017 Aug 1
I think we'll count it even as a temporary or pyrrhic victory. As for Dany, in general it feels like this is a point for the general who leads the battle, but it can transfer to Daenerys once she gets her boots on the ground, or if we get a line from Grey Worm like "the castle is yours, your Grace." -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
-Elon

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2017 Aug 2
Battle of the Bastards did result in Battle Victory points for Ramsay (http://fantasora.com/event/2892). In the rulebook it states that large battles can be divided up and have multiple victory points awarded for each segment. Think of it like an Assault map for a game like Battlefield or TF2, there are intermediate points for each objective taken. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

calling back to Bronn's quote about the Eyrie: "Give me ten good men, and I'll impregnate the bitch" (Funny Line)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

9:39 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Missandei: "You stand in the presence of Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, rightful heir to the Iron Throne, rightful Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Mother of Dragons, the Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, the Breaker of Chains."
Davos: "This is Jon Snow." (Funny Line)

34:07 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

to Jon Snow: "I came down here to brood over my failure to predict the Greyjoy attack. You're making it difficult. You look a lot better brooding than I do. You make me feel like I'm failing at brooding over failing." (Funny Line)

35:40 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

"People's minds aren't made for problems that large. White Walkers, the Night King, Army of the Dead. It's almost a relief to confront a comfortable, familiar monster like my sister." (Witty Insult)

37:50 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "Apparently, it can be turned into weapons that kill white walkers and their foot soldiers. Or stop them. Destroy them. Unsure about the nomenclature." (Funny Line)

38:14 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?"
Tyrion: "I would never do that."
To you.
The reason I believe Jon Snow is because he's here. (Funny Line)

I kind of thought Daenerys deserved some credit here for calling Tyrion out, but not exactly sure how to score it. Thoughts? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 taylorreneegoodrich likes this
Seems to be closest to a witty insult, but it's not really an insult. Maybe the secret discovery of Tyrion's imposture? He has been doing this for like ever and gotten through with it for most of the time. Dany seems to be the first person to see right through him, even if in a somewhat benevolent way :) -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
its comical... most of tyrion's lines are but the entire scene is just funny I think both Dany and tyrion should split points on this. -csepulveda2885

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione likes this
I thought that this was a Dany funny line for that last bit she had. -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 hkeseyan and Lem Lemoncake like this

38:14 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys catches Tyrion in one of his signature made-up proverbs and calls him out:

Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?" (Funny Line)

submitted by jedjackoway (approved!)

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Special

4:24 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Tyrion Lannister greets Ser Davos on his arrival to Dragonstone: "Ah, the Onion Knight" (Special)

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