Matchup: Hodors Be Trippin' vs The Manning-Faced God's Revenge for Ep 10

Hodor's Heroes

Hodors Be Trippin' (peter.a.adelfio)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Insults	Deaths
Tommen Baratheon The King of the Seven Kingdoms after the assassination of his brother, Joffrey Baratheon. He is young and highly impressionable to the various influences in King's Landing that seek to control him.	#26	20	10	0	10
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker. He journeys south to begin his training as a Maester to replace the aging Maester Aemon.	#15	3	0	3	0
Ramsay Bolton The legitimized bastard son of Roose Bolton, now Warden of the North. He is fond of the Bolton tradition of flaying their enemies.	#6	1	0	0	1
Osha A wildling woman who serves the Starks. She splits off from Bran's group and travels with Rickon.	#66	1	0	0	1
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She wields a whip.	#55	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#35	0	0	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#46	0	0	0	0
Izembaro (Robert/Tywin actor) The manager of an acting troupe in Braavos. He plays Robert Baratheon in a play depicting the political events of Westeros.	#75	0	0	0	0
Totals		25	10	3	12

The Manning-Faced God's Revenge (shancox92)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#4	627	598	9	6	5	0	9
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#24	18	5	3	0	0	10	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#17	6	0	0	6	0	0	0
Three-eyed raven A mysterious man who lives far north of the Wall with the Children of the Forest. He has been guiding Bran's dreams through the form of a three-eyed raven.	#44	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Lem Lemoncloak A leader of a group of outlaws in the Riverlands.	#64	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	#37	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#57	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Salladhor Saan A Pirate Lord from the Lys, a free city of Essos. He is an old friend of Ser Davos Seaworth and fought for Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.	#77	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		653	603	12	12	5	12	9

Kills

9:13 (+5) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel carves the seven-pointed star into Loras Tyrell's forehead after his confessions, as a symbol of Loras' sins and newfound faith in the Seven. (Major Injury of Named Character)

17:14 (+60) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. The High Sparrow, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, and Margaery Tyrell perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

115 more comments - see full thread

Part 2: So here's what we'll do.

Camp A will be a "default", as I think it's the general impression most viewers had on watching the scene, if they didn't dive into the nitty-gritty of scoring criteria. All of the leagues currently on Ruleset 3.1 and 4.0, Cersei will keep all the kill points.

For Camp B, all of the "reasonable split" scores will be added (Lem, Ramsay, Jordaario), under new Rulesets called 3.1b and 4.0b. These are the same as the existing Rulesets, just with these kill points added. Consider this a branch of the rules, enabling Leagues to self-determine which interpretation of the scoring criteria they want to apply.

I'll also be developing a new Ruleset 5.0 for the rewatches and S7 - it'll include the removal of commanded kills and the addition of some new political scoring categories to address some of the events that have felt like they weren't properly credited this season. The exact details need to be fine-tuned (the rewatches will be good practice), but ultimately it should address each of this season's controversial scores in a way that's unambiguous and properly rewarding for the magnitude of the characters' actions on the show.

At the end of this discussion, I personally fell into Camp C ("nothing counts"). However my read on that is that most players, in their gut, wanted the scoring to be Camp A or Camp B, but ended up supporting the strictness of Camp C because the other options create some hard-to-reconcile precedents. As a scorekeeper, there's some wariness that both Ruleset 4.0 and 4.0b will now be slightly broken in a "crap, this is going to be a mess for some future S7 events that I can imagine happening" sense.

The 5.0 revision of the rules should be the answer to that concern - we won't have to worry about these controversial 4.0/4.0b scores establishing bad precedents for future scoring, because we'll be using a completely new Ruleset 5.0 by then. In that sense, both of these bends for Camp A and Camp B might be considered do-right scores for the popular player sentiment on who deserves points, in a way that's safely not precedent-setting for the future Ruleset 5.0.

@jedjackoway and @bookworm13457 were the two main commenters that seemed to subscribe to Camp C without a personal leaning towards A or B. Hopefully your concerns were precedent-based like mine, and using A or B will be acceptable for your S6 scores (if not, I can always add in 3.1c/4.0c rulesets as well).

So in summary, this gives all leagues a Ruleset choice that fits with their preferred scoring style, and gives us a path forward to avoid this controversy in the future.

Hopefully this is a happy resolution for everyone playing this season. I'm off to count up some villagers and arrowed corpses. -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 bookworm13457, twalters, righteous like this
Thanks for all of your hard work @Nyan. I do not envy your task of counting the soldiers kill in the Battle of the Bastards. Looking forward to 1-2 more seasons of this! -bookworm13457

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2016 Jul 1 nyan, righteous, twalters, jedjackoway, 2 others like this
The above changes are now live! Check your league settings for the Ruleset 3.1b scoring option. (ended up skipping on 4.0b as it turns out hardly any leagues are on it - of the active commenters, only @Lem Lemoncake used it).

If you happen to be in a Public League and would like switch it do a different ruleset, just let me know directly on FB/email - I'll switch these with preference going to the desired Ruleset of players who have been active in the scoring discussions.

For those curious, here's are those 3.1b events (screenshots of the villagers count and every. freaking. arrow. death.):

Ramsay volleys (36 soldiers and horseys): http://fantasora.com/event/2927
Lem Lemoncloak's kill commands (32 villagers): http://fantasora.com/event/3056
Gatins 1/7th share of 32 villager kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3062
Qyburn 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3067
Cersei 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3066 -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 rajatnigam, bookworm13457, righteous, twalters like this

17:15 (+452) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. Along with the High Sparrow, Small Council, and the Tyrell royal family, 226 other members of the audience perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I finally counted them all. Here's the wide shot! https://imgur.com/ft412aT -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm keeping my arguments in the other thread for simplicity's sake. But why is this not going to Qyburn as well? -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
There's no confirmation that Qyburn did this however we do know that Cersei did. -klov3r

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2016 Jun 28
Just saw the "inside episodes 9&10" on HBO and they stated they used 287 extras for the scene. -alexander.hilton91

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2016 Jun 29 nyan and bookworm13457 like this
Stephanie on the FB page brought this up as well - I think we'll keep the criteria as just the on-screen body count, as it's easily scorable and we won't always have this kind of behind-the-scenes info available. -nyan

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2016 Jun 29

17:30 (+4) Cersei Lannister:

Two King's Landing pedestrians are consumed in the Sept of Baelor wildfire explosion. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:31 (+76) Cersei Lannister:

38 pedestrians in the square outside the Sept of Baelor are overrun as the explosion of wildfire spills outward onto the streets of King's Landing. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:36 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

A King's Landing pedestrian is crushed by a bell jettisoned from the explosion at the Sept of Baelor. Two other pedestrians are also destroyed as the alley becomes engulfed in wildfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

22:19 (+10) Tommen Baratheon:

After witnessing the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor, Tommen removes his crown and leaps from the balcony to his death. (Kill of Named Character)

Political Wins

17:02 (+3) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel follows one of Qyburn's little birds to the King's Landing underground. There he is stabbed, but crawls to discover the hidden cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Seems like the little birds quite deliberately led Lancel there to show him, disqualifying it from the secret discovery. -nyan

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2016 Jun 27 dopeghoti likes this
I think the little birds brought him down there to stab him, not necessarily to show him. They stabbed him in the hall, and then he somehow stumbled upon the cache of wildfire, and tried to blow it out. So I feel they are independent events. -skywalkerdude

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2016 Jun 27 nyan, righteous, alicehanners like this
I didn't think they led him their deliberately. Why would they do that? Led or not led, still discovered a 'secret', yah. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 righteous likes this
REgardless of the scoring, can I say that I thought that was tacky and terrible television. That Lancel would swerve from his mission to get Cersei because, what, he saw a little kid? Are there no little kids in KL? Then, he gets stabbed and suddenly loses use of both of his legs? Did the kid stab him in the spine and paralyze him? wat
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 nyan and righteous like this
Read this somewhere and this makes the most sense to me:

The little bird was spying on the trial and was running away to give information to Cersei about what had happened. He happened to be followed by Lancel, so the little bird hid, stabbed Lancel when he had the chance, and then took off. I think it should count as a secret discovery -wynnch

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2016 Jun 29

17:18 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei destroys the Sept of Baelor in an explosion of wildfire, killing most of the Tyrell royal family and the King's Small Council. (Act of Betrayal)

Eh, really? She all but declared herself accountable to no one when talking to Grandma Tyrell.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
One of the conditions of her release from imprisonment was that she would stand trial later. Though she swore that she would she decided to skip her court date to watch some fireworks. -jimwangerin

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2016 Jun 28
It seemed like Cersei and the Small Council had reached a sort of detente when we last left off, after they agreed on Jaime's plan to march the Tyrell army in. Maybe they didn't trust her 100%, but certainly none of them expected she would outright murder them. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin likes this

18:22 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes Septa Unella prisoner, tying her down to a table as she tortures her. "Confess. It felt good. Beating me, starving me, frightening me, humiliating me. You didn't do it because you cared about my atonement. You did it because it felt good. ... I killed your High Sparrow, and all his little sparrows ... because it felt good to watch them burn. It felt good to imagine their shock and their pain. No thought has ever given me greater joy." (New Follower/Prisoner)

63:11 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn: "I now proclaim Cersei of the House Lannister, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms. Long may she reign." (New Title)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

21:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Septa Unella: "This is Ser Gregor Clegane. He's quiet, too. Your Gods have forsaken you. This is your god now."
(Threat)

Is this really a threat, she's kinda just telling her whats up, not threatening something will happen if something else happens. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 alicehanners likes this
Just 'cause it's flowery doesn't make this a good threat.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin and jedjackoway like this
If I was strapped to a board, and Cersei introduced her giant of a bodyguard to me as my "new god", I'd feel pretty threatened. -marcelcdn

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2016 Jun 28 nyan, bookworm13457, wynnch, kayeexau like this
I feel threatened by a lot of things all the time. Doesn't mean they threatened me. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 29

21:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

as she locks Septa Unella in with Gregor Clegane: "Shame. Shame. Shame." (Witty Insult)

29:43 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Citadel receptionist: "This is irregular."
Samwell: "Yes, well... I suppose that... life is irregular." (Funny Line)

39:13 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

"Obara. You look like an angry little boy. Don't presume to tell me what I need." (Witty Insult)

39:22 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

"Do shut up, dear. *turns to Tyene Sand* Anything from you? *Tyene begins to speak* No? Good. Let the grown women speak." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

17:51 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks as she watches the wildfire explosion engulf the Sept of Baelor from the safety of her chambers in the Red Keep. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

17:17 (+10) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel Lannister is lured into the King's Landing underground where he is stabbed by one of Qyburn's little birds. Finding a cache of wildfire, he is too late to stop the candles from burning down and igniting it, engulfing him in the explosion. (Death)

22:19 (+10) Tommen Baratheon:

After witnessing the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor, Tommen removes his crown and leaps from the balcony to his death. (Death)

26:42 (+0) Tommen Baratheon:

Tommen's shrouded body is presented to Cersei. "He should be with his grandfather, his brother, his sister. Burn him and bury his ashes where the Sept once stood." (Dead Body Appearance)

+1 for Osha, +1 for Ramsay Bolton, +1 for Three-eyed raven, +1 for Lem Lemoncloak

Special

10:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours herself a glass of wine while observing the events at the Sept of Baelor from afar. (Special)

18:15 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out her glass of wine over Septa Unella's face as she is bound to a table. "Confess." (Special)

18:32 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

After emptying her glass, Cersei returns to pour out an entire pitcher of wine over Septa Unella's face as she tortures her. (Special)

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