The Manning-Faced God's Revenge

Hodor's Heroes

Owner: shancox92

2-8, 51 roto pts (#5)
Z-Score: 0.201 (percentile: 57.97%)
Weeks at #1: 0
Categories won: Kills (603)
Best Week: Episode 10: The Winds of Winter (+13.5 roto points)
Team MVP: Cersei Lannister (picked #4, 665 points, 88.9% of team total)
Longest winstreak: W-1

Roster Stats

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#4	665	598	15	9	15	10	0	18
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#17	24	0	0	24	0	0	0	0
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#24	18	5	3	0	0	0	10	0
Three-eyed raven A mysterious man who lives far north of the Wall with the Children of the Forest. He has been guiding Bran's dreams through the form of a three-eyed raven.	#44	15	0	0	0	0	0	15	0
Lem Lemoncloak A leader of a group of outlaws in the Riverlands.	#64	12	0	0	0	0	0	12	0
Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#57	8	0	0	3	5	0	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	#37	6	0	0	6	0	0	0	0
Salladhor Saan A Pirate Lord from the Lys, a free city of Essos. He is an old friend of Ser Davos Seaworth and fought for Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.	#77	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		748	603	18	42	20	10	37	18

Roster

charId	Character	Special
18	Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	* +1 special point every time she pours wine or requests a glass be poured * +1 point when someone (excl. Jaime) references incest with Jaime or her childrens' bastardy directly to her * 2x multiplier for sex acts involving incest (first cousin or closer)
59	Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	+1 point every time she interlocks arms with someone while walking.
26	Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	+1 politics point when he publicly outs a named character for their sins
68	Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	+1 each time she talks about something new she has learned
134	Three-eyed raven A mysterious man who lives far north of the Wall with the Children of the Forest. He has been guiding Bran's dreams through the form of a three-eyed raven.	+1 for forcibly pulling someone in or out of a vision [Ruleset 4.0+]
102	Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	+1 point every time he revives someone. +1 when shown igniting his flaming sword
246	Lem Lemoncloak A leader of a group of outlaws in the Riverlands.	[Possible special to be determined after character appears]
55	Salladhor Saan A Pirate Lord from the Lys, a free city of Essos. He is an old friend of Ser Davos Seaworth and fought for Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.

Kills

Episode 10: The Winds of Winter

9:13 (+5) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel carves the seven-pointed star into Loras Tyrell's forehead after his confessions, as a symbol of Loras' sins and newfound faith in the Seven. (Major Injury of Named Character)

17:14 (+60) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. The High Sparrow, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, and Margaery Tyrell perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

115 more comments - see full thread

Part 2: So here's what we'll do.

Camp A will be a "default", as I think it's the general impression most viewers had on watching the scene, if they didn't dive into the nitty-gritty of scoring criteria. All of the leagues currently on Ruleset 3.1 and 4.0, Cersei will keep all the kill points.

For Camp B, all of the "reasonable split" scores will be added (Lem, Ramsay, Jordaario), under new Rulesets called 3.1b and 4.0b. These are the same as the existing Rulesets, just with these kill points added. Consider this a branch of the rules, enabling Leagues to self-determine which interpretation of the scoring criteria they want to apply.

I'll also be developing a new Ruleset 5.0 for the rewatches and S7 - it'll include the removal of commanded kills and the addition of some new political scoring categories to address some of the events that have felt like they weren't properly credited this season. The exact details need to be fine-tuned (the rewatches will be good practice), but ultimately it should address each of this season's controversial scores in a way that's unambiguous and properly rewarding for the magnitude of the characters' actions on the show.

At the end of this discussion, I personally fell into Camp C ("nothing counts"). However my read on that is that most players, in their gut, wanted the scoring to be Camp A or Camp B, but ended up supporting the strictness of Camp C because the other options create some hard-to-reconcile precedents. As a scorekeeper, there's some wariness that both Ruleset 4.0 and 4.0b will now be slightly broken in a "crap, this is going to be a mess for some future S7 events that I can imagine happening" sense.

The 5.0 revision of the rules should be the answer to that concern - we won't have to worry about these controversial 4.0/4.0b scores establishing bad precedents for future scoring, because we'll be using a completely new Ruleset 5.0 by then. In that sense, both of these bends for Camp A and Camp B might be considered do-right scores for the popular player sentiment on who deserves points, in a way that's safely not precedent-setting for the future Ruleset 5.0.

@jedjackoway and @bookworm13457 were the two main commenters that seemed to subscribe to Camp C without a personal leaning towards A or B. Hopefully your concerns were precedent-based like mine, and using A or B will be acceptable for your S6 scores (if not, I can always add in 3.1c/4.0c rulesets as well).

So in summary, this gives all leagues a Ruleset choice that fits with their preferred scoring style, and gives us a path forward to avoid this controversy in the future.

Hopefully this is a happy resolution for everyone playing this season. I'm off to count up some villagers and arrowed corpses. -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 bookworm13457, twalters, righteous like this
Thanks for all of your hard work @Nyan. I do not envy your task of counting the soldiers kill in the Battle of the Bastards. Looking forward to 1-2 more seasons of this! -bookworm13457

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2016 Jul 1 nyan, righteous, twalters, jedjackoway, 2 others like this
The above changes are now live! Check your league settings for the Ruleset 3.1b scoring option. (ended up skipping on 4.0b as it turns out hardly any leagues are on it - of the active commenters, only @Lem Lemoncake used it).

If you happen to be in a Public League and would like switch it do a different ruleset, just let me know directly on FB/email - I'll switch these with preference going to the desired Ruleset of players who have been active in the scoring discussions.

For those curious, here's are those 3.1b events (screenshots of the villagers count and every. freaking. arrow. death.):

Ramsay volleys (36 soldiers and horseys): http://fantasora.com/event/2927
Lem Lemoncloak's kill commands (32 villagers): http://fantasora.com/event/3056
Gatins 1/7th share of 32 villager kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3062
Qyburn 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3067
Cersei 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3066 -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 rajatnigam, bookworm13457, righteous, twalters like this

17:15 (+452) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. Along with the High Sparrow, Small Council, and the Tyrell royal family, 226 other members of the audience perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I finally counted them all. Here's the wide shot! https://imgur.com/ft412aT -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm keeping my arguments in the other thread for simplicity's sake. But why is this not going to Qyburn as well? -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
There's no confirmation that Qyburn did this however we do know that Cersei did. -klov3r

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2016 Jun 28
Just saw the "inside episodes 9&10" on HBO and they stated they used 287 extras for the scene. -alexander.hilton91

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2016 Jun 29 nyan and bookworm13457 like this
Stephanie on the FB page brought this up as well - I think we'll keep the criteria as just the on-screen body count, as it's easily scorable and we won't always have this kind of behind-the-scenes info available. -nyan

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2016 Jun 29

17:30 (+4) Cersei Lannister:

Two King's Landing pedestrians are consumed in the Sept of Baelor wildfire explosion. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:31 (+76) Cersei Lannister:

38 pedestrians in the square outside the Sept of Baelor are overrun as the explosion of wildfire spills outward onto the streets of King's Landing. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:36 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

A King's Landing pedestrian is crushed by a bell jettisoned from the explosion at the Sept of Baelor. Two other pedestrians are also destroyed as the alley becomes engulfed in wildfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

Episode 4: Book of the Stranger

39:52 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Despite their initial protests, Cersei convinces the Hand of the King Kevan Lannister and Olenna Tyrell to go with her plan to march the Tyrell army into King's Landing to arrest the High Sparrow and rescue Queen Margaery.
Kevan Lannister: "We'll have civil war. Many will die."
Olenna Tyrell: "Many will die no matter what we do. Better them than us." (Convincing Argument)

No Jaime points for this? I took it as he convinces Kevan. "We're you commanded not to stand down?", "Do you think Tommen will complain when he has his wife back by his side? " etc -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 16 thederekwilson, coconnor723, mariahwestfall3 like this
Yeah, this was clearly a tag team effort. -nsimmonds

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2016 May 16 nyan likes this
Jaime's points have been proposed here: http://fantasora.com/event/2388 -nyan

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2016 May 16

Episode 6: Blood of My Blood

42:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei convinces Jaime to accept Tommen's assignment to lead the Lannister army to assist Walder Frey in taking back Riverrun.

"Stand at the head of our army where you belong, where Father wanted you. Show our men where their loyalties belong. Show them what Lannisters are, what we do to our enemies. And take that stupid little castle back because it's ours and because you can." (Convincing Argument)

Episode 10: The Winds of Winter

17:02 (+3) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel follows one of Qyburn's little birds to the King's Landing underground. There he is stabbed, but crawls to discover the hidden cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Seems like the little birds quite deliberately led Lancel there to show him, disqualifying it from the secret discovery. -nyan

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2016 Jun 27 dopeghoti likes this
I think the little birds brought him down there to stab him, not necessarily to show him. They stabbed him in the hall, and then he somehow stumbled upon the cache of wildfire, and tried to blow it out. So I feel they are independent events. -skywalkerdude

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2016 Jun 27 nyan, righteous, alicehanners like this
I didn't think they led him their deliberately. Why would they do that? Led or not led, still discovered a 'secret', yah. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 righteous likes this
REgardless of the scoring, can I say that I thought that was tacky and terrible television. That Lancel would swerve from his mission to get Cersei because, what, he saw a little kid? Are there no little kids in KL? Then, he gets stabbed and suddenly loses use of both of his legs? Did the kid stab him in the spine and paralyze him? wat
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 nyan and righteous like this
Read this somewhere and this makes the most sense to me:

The little bird was spying on the trial and was running away to give information to Cersei about what had happened. He happened to be followed by Lancel, so the little bird hid, stabbed Lancel when he had the chance, and then took off. I think it should count as a secret discovery -wynnch

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2016 Jun 29

17:18 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei destroys the Sept of Baelor in an explosion of wildfire, killing most of the Tyrell royal family and the King's Small Council. (Act of Betrayal)

Eh, really? She all but declared herself accountable to no one when talking to Grandma Tyrell.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
One of the conditions of her release from imprisonment was that she would stand trial later. Though she swore that she would she decided to skip her court date to watch some fireworks. -jimwangerin

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2016 Jun 28
It seemed like Cersei and the Small Council had reached a sort of detente when we last left off, after they agreed on Jaime's plan to march the Tyrell army in. Maybe they didn't trust her 100%, but certainly none of them expected she would outright murder them. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin likes this

18:22 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes Septa Unella prisoner, tying her down to a table as she tortures her. "Confess. It felt good. Beating me, starving me, frightening me, humiliating me. You didn't do it because you cared about my atonement. You did it because it felt good. ... I killed your High Sparrow, and all his little sparrows ... because it felt good to watch them burn. It felt good to imagine their shock and their pain. No thought has ever given me greater joy." (New Follower/Prisoner)

63:11 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn: "I now proclaim Cersei of the House Lannister, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms. Long may she reign." (New Title)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

Episode 3: Oathbreaker

8:26 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly: "Did I ever tell you that I thought the sea was called 'the see' because it was nothing but water as far as the eye could see?"
Sam: "I don't think so." (Funny Line)

submitted by cjcookart (approved!)

32:14 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna: "I was invited, my dear, to help deal with several troublesome issues, such as the Queen's imprisonment."
Cersei: "Thank you for bringing it up. It's well past time we addressed the abuses I endured."
Olenna: "Margaery is the Queen. You are not the Queen, because you're not married to the king. I do appreciate these things can get a bit confusing in your family."
(Witty Insult)

Episode 4: Book of the Stranger

37:52 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Cersei: "You once spoke of your respect for our father because he understood the necessity of working with one's rivals."
Olenna: "My dear, you have been stripped of your dignity and authority, publicly shamed, and confined to the Red Keep. What's left to work with?" (Witty Insult)

Episode 6: Blood of My Blood

6:29 (+3) Gilly:

to Sam: "You're nervous. You're a nervous talker. [prolonged silence] ... That's not any better being a nervous mute." (Witty Insult)

Episode 7: The Broken Man

9:44 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

remaking on Septa Unella: "Does it move or talk?" (Witty Insult)

submitted by ace75318 (approved!)

9:55 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

to Septa Unella: "You're now in your sanctuary now, my dear. All I have to do is whistle and my men will stroll you in here and bash you about until I tell them to stop... *if* I tell them to stop." (Threat)

16:14 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

to Cersei: "I wonder if you're the worst person I've ever met. At a certain age it's hard to recall. But the truly vile do stand out through the years." (Witty Insult)

17:16 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna: "You've lost, Cersei. It's the only joy I could find in all this misery." (Witty Insult)

Episode 8: No One

12:53 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Lancel Lannister: "Order your man (Gregor Clegane) to step aside, or there will be violence."
Cersei: "... I choose violence." (Threat)

This is certainly a threat on Lancel's part as well, is responding to a threat really a threat itself? -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 13 given.brian and jshragie like this
Lancel's line was an ordinary threat, Cersei's was a cold-blooded comeback. -nyan

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2016 Jun 13
Countering a threat with your own threat makes for more threats, as is just and true for Westeros. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 13 Ser Vincent likes this
Oh please, its only a cold-blooded comeback because it's Cersei. Lancel said "call him off or we will have to fight him." And she said "so fight him".

If his isn't a threat, hers definitely isn't. I think you are being way too personally subjective about threats -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 15 jedjackoway likes this
It feels like it hasn't been clear what the insults/threats/funny category is. It is never meant to score literally everything that can be construed as insulting/threatening, but is intended to reward the characters who are charismatic, and deliver the well-worded jabs.

Think about a rap battle. Literally every single line spoken by either participant is going to be "insulting". But only the best of those lines - insults with wit, cleverness, or highly-relevant comebacks - are the ones that illicit the "ooohs" and "BURNN!!" and "BAH GAWD that man had a FAMILY!" reactions from the audience. Those are the lines this category is trying to reward. -nyan

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2016 Jun 17
I think you can make a case for Cersei's line being below the bar - it's far from the best line in this episode (though I think there are wore ones, personally). But Lancel's line is an absolutely pedestrian threat, wording-wise, and does not fit into the purpose of this category. I cannot imagine a single viewer having a "Goddamnn I can't believe Lancel just said that" reaction to that scene. -nyan

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2016 Jun 17

45:00 (+3) Thoros of Myr:

Sandor Clegane: "They killed a friend of mine."
Thoros: "You've got friends?" (Witty Insult)

Episode 10: The Winds of Winter

21:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Septa Unella: "This is Ser Gregor Clegane. He's quiet, too. Your Gods have forsaken you. This is your god now."
(Threat)

Is this really a threat, she's kinda just telling her whats up, not threatening something will happen if something else happens. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 alicehanners likes this
Just 'cause it's flowery doesn't make this a good threat.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin and jedjackoway like this
If I was strapped to a board, and Cersei introduced her giant of a bodyguard to me as my "new god", I'd feel pretty threatened. -marcelcdn

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2016 Jun 28 nyan, bookworm13457, wynnch, kayeexau like this
I feel threatened by a lot of things all the time. Doesn't mean they threatened me. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 29

21:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

as she locks Septa Unella in with Gregor Clegane: "Shame. Shame. Shame." (Witty Insult)

39:13 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

"Obara. You look like an angry little boy. Don't presume to tell me what I need." (Witty Insult)

39:22 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

"Do shut up, dear. *turns to Tyene Sand* Anything from you? *Tyene begins to speak* No? Good. Let the grown women speak." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

Episode 2: Home

19:25 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes a sip while speaking with her son Tommen. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

submitted by rwrigley86 (approved!)

Episode 8: No One

11:15 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks in her chambers as Qyburn arrives to deliver a request from the Faith Militant. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

47:02 (+5) Thoros of Myr:

Thoros drinks from his wineskin as he walks towards the campfire. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Episode 10: The Winds of Winter

17:51 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks as she watches the wildfire explosion engulf the Sept of Baelor from the safety of her chambers in the Red Keep. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

Episode 6: Blood of My Blood

43:08 (+10) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei and Jaime get it on after hot and heavy dirty talk about the power of House Lannister and destroying their enemies. "They've made us both stronger, all of them. They have no idea how strong we are. No idea what we're going to do to them. We've always been together. We'll always be together." (Act of Intercourse)

Deaths

Episode 5: The Door

51:57 (+10) Three-eyed raven:

The Three-Eyed Raven is cut down by the White Walker King after the White Walkers and their wights invade his cavern. "The time has come. Leave me." (Death)

Episode 6: Blood of My Blood

+1 for Three-eyed raven

Episode 7: The Broken Man

+1 for Three-eyed raven

Episode 8: No One

46:26 (+10) Lem Lemoncloak:

Lem is hanged by the true Brotherhood without Banners, for his crimes in massacring the villagers building Septon Ray's church. (Death)

+1 for Three-eyed raven

Episode 9: Battle of the Bastards

+1 for Three-eyed raven, +1 for Lem Lemoncloak

Episode 10: The Winds of Winter

17:17 (+10) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel Lannister is lured into the King's Landing underground where he is stabbed by one of Qyburn's little birds. Finding a cache of wildfire, he is too late to stop the candles from burning down and igniting it, engulfing him in the explosion. (Death)

+1 for Three-eyed raven, +1 for Lem Lemoncloak

Special

Episode 1: The Red Woman

22:29 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime refers to Myrcella's parentage as Cersei grives: "Listen- listen to me. She was my daughter and I failed her." (Special)

I feel like Jamie should have gotten points for this scene too, they were grieving parents together, clearly referring to their children, and what was taken from them. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 2
@taylorreneegoodrich, this special originated from the earlier seasons when the paternity of Cersei's children was much more of a hushed secret. It's gotten more difficult to score now that Cersei and Jaime talk about it all the time, but in keeping with the original scoring, Cersei/Jaime get a point when it's someone else who talks about their childrens' bastardy *to* them. In this case it was Jaime's line to Cersei, but Cersei didn't respond back with anything about their kids.

the main distinction we went with is -nyan

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2016 May 2
Cersei also had a glass of wine so where are the points for that? -kimbo

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2016 May 2 joe.puglisi, bookworm13457, sofiazbv, Lem Lemoncake like this

Episode 3: Oathbreaker

32:28 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Olenna to Cersei: "Margaery is the Queen. You are not the Queen, because you're not married to the king. I do appreciate these things can get a bit confusing in your family."
(Special)

Episode 6: Blood of My Blood

42:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime: "He has our son! He stole our son! He's torn our family apart." (Special)

Episode 10: The Winds of Winter

10:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours herself a glass of wine while observing the events at the Sept of Baelor from afar. (Special)

18:15 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out her glass of wine over Septa Unella's face as she is bound to a table. "Confess." (Special)

18:32 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

After emptying her glass, Cersei returns to pour out an entire pitcher of wine over Septa Unella's face as she tortures her. (Special)

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