Matchup: What do we say to auto-draft? Not today....not today vs The Whitewalking Dead for Ep 5

Arya Not Entertained

What do we say to auto-draft? Not today....not today (nathanmcguire13)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Deaths	Special
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#15	53	19	9	10	15
Three-eyed raven A mysterious man who lives far north of the Wall with the Children of the Forest. He has been guiding Bran's dreams through the form of a three-eyed raven.	#18	10	0	0	10	0
Daenerys Targaryen The last royal member of the Targaryen dynasty, Daenerys and her three dragons have carved out a revolutionary empire in the east, liberating several slave cities and acquiring an army of Unsullied warriors. Her recent rule over the slave city of Meereen has been met with strife, however, and she currently finds herself lost with her largest dragon, Drogon, in Dothraki territory.	#2	6	0	6	0	0
Brynden Tully (Blackfish) Known as the Blackfish, Brynden is the uncle of Catelyn Stark and Edmure Tully. He escaped the events of the Red Wedding, but his whereabouts are unknown.	#34	3	0	3	0	0
Balon Greyjoy The head of House Greyjoy and Lord of the Iron Islands. He is the father of Theon, who was given up as a ward to the Starks after Balon's failed rebellion against the Iron Throne.	#31	1	0	0	1	0
Smalljon Umber The son of Greatjon Umber, heir to House Umber and bannerman to the Starks.	-	0	0	0	0	0
Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#50	0	0	0	0	0
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#47	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		73	19	18	21	15

The Whitewalking Dead (rdbralow)

Character	Drafted	Total	Deaths	Special
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon has been broken through torture by the hands of Ramsay Bolton, but has escaped Winterfell along with Sansa Stark during the chaos of the Battle of Winterfell.	#21	3	0	3
Olly An orphan boy of the Night's Watch, and a squire for Lord Commander Jon Snow. He is part of the mutiny that betrays Jon and leaves him for dead.	#60	1	1	0
Alliser Thorne A former master-of-arms and acting Commander of the Night's Watch, Thorne narrowly lost the Lord Commander choosing to Jon Snow in S5. He later led a mutiny of disgruntled Night's Watch members against Jon Snow, stabbing and leaving him for dead.	#37	1	1	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#44	0	0	0
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#28	0	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	#53	0	0	0
Margaery Tyrell The wife of King Tommen Baratheon and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Her increasing influence over the young king have put at her odds against his mother, Cersei Lannister.	#12	0	0	0
Ramsay Bolton The legitimized bastard son of Roose Bolton, now Warden of the North. He is fond of the Bolton tradition of flaying their enemies.	#5	0	0	0
Totals		5	2	3

Kills

49:26 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer leaps onto the second wight just before it attacks Meera Reed. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

51:10 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer dives into the crowd of wights as Bran and company make their escape out of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. He lands on one wight but is quickly cut down by the horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I don't think we actually see Summer kill any wights. -tbaum9842

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2016 May 23 nyan and ddenault85 like this
:( :( :( -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23
Shouldn't we get credit for Summer's death too? -jamesrscottjr81

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2016 May 23
Bar is set fairly low for fights with henchmen/redshirts. From the rulebook spec: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes." -nyan

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2016 May 23
Summer's death counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/2461 -nyan

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2016 May 23

53:44 (+5) Bran Stark:

Bran mentally debilitates a young Wylas by warging into him, offering him a glimpse of his future demise at the Door. (Major Injury of Named Character)

55:15 (+10) Bran Stark:

While warged in, Bran forces Hodor to hold the Door against the horde of wights as he and Meera make their escape, sacrificing him in the process. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

@Lem Bran only half-consciously controlling the Hodors sounds like a good argument for excluding it as a betrayal. It's ambiguous even to what extent Bran is aware of how he is controlling things (both in past vision and real world), and thus it's hard to say he betrayed anyone in his subconscious (intent should matter for betrayals, else klutzy chars like Podrick would be "betraying" friends with their screwups all the time). -nyan

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2016 May 26
Really good perspectives you both brought up about the kills. I think bookworm is right that we should try to exclude intent - can of worms as you say, and accidental kills should definitely be possible.

Thinking through this, it does feel like there should be some criteria that allows for putting someone into a situation where they'll definitely be killed. Scar flinging Mufasa down to the stampeding buffalo in Long King comes to mind - no control over the actual killers there, but the death doesn't happen without Scar's direct action. From a pedantic perspective this could apply to Balon's death as well - even if it's the ocean that drowned him, it was Euron's throw that put him into that situation (and scorekeeping is all about pedantry =P).

I think we can expand on kills commanded here and ultimately include those under a subset of "inevitable death situation" rules:
I. The killer forces the victim into the situation against their will
II. The situation leads to *inevitable* death
II.I. The entity or force that directly kills the victim needs no skill or decision-making to make the kill, aside from following the commands of the killer.
III. The directly killer still gets rewarded duplicate kill points, if applicable.

What that means for the scenarios we've talked about:
1. Executions like Ned's and Fat Walda's (previously covered by Commanded Kills) are included, since the victims are imprisoned (forced into situation), and could do nothing to avoid death (inevitable). This should be the same whether it was a human killer (Ilyn Payne), controlled animals (Ramsay's hounds), as neither needed skill or decision-making (aside from following commands).

2. Scar throwing Mufasa into a canyon of stampeding buffalo is also included. Even without directly controlling the physical killers, the inevitability and lack of skill/decision-making is the same. Imagine if Ramsay throws Fat Walda into a pit of snakes instead.

3. Pushing the victim into a sword held by someone else would be a more nuanced case. As mentioned above, we don't want to get into judging the intent of the indirect killer here:

3a. The victim is shoved toward the sword-holder, who happens to have his sword positioned in a way that impales the victim. Included for the person-pusher, as no skill/decision or even actions were taken by the sword-holder. This would be the same as if the sword-holder was instead a jagged rock.

3b. The victim is shoved in the direction of the sword-holder, who must aim and position his weapon precisely to impale the victim. This would be excluded for the person-pusher, as it required skill/decision-making on the part of the sword-holder.

4. Most "noble suicides" are excluded by criteria I, because the victim willingly put themselves in it (still counted if they are physically killed by their own action, like Leaf's hand grenade).

5. In all above scenarios, the direct killer (Ilyn, Ramsay's hound, sword-holder) still gets credit. -nyan

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2016 May 26 dopeghoti likes this
I think that's definitely a fair way to approach it -bookworm13457

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2016 May 26

Political Wins

6:04 (+3) Brynden Tully (Blackfish):

Word of the Blackfish's exploits reaches Sansa via Littlefinger: "Your great uncle, Brynden the Blackfish, has gathered what remains of the Tully forces and retaken Riverrun." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

17:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origins of the White Walkers - created by the Children of the Forest - during a warg visit to the past.
Bran: "It was you. You made the White Walkers."
Leaf: "We were at war. We were being slaughtered. Our sacred trees cut down. We needed to defend ourselves." (Secret Discovery)

29:47 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys overrules Jorah's decision to leave her: "Do not walk away from your Queen, Jorah the Andal. You have not been dismissed. You swore to obey my commands for the rest of your life. Well, I command you to find the cure wherever it is in this world. I command you to heal yourself and then return to me." (Executive Decision)

32:04 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

High Priestess Kinvara signs on to Team Daenerys as the Lord of HYPE.

"You don't need to persuade me. I came to help. Daenerys Stormborn is the one who was promised. From the fire she was reborn to remake the world ... I will summon my most eloquent priests. They will spread the word. Daenerys has been sent to lead the people against the darkness in this war and in the great war still to come." (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

45:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran's status as the Three Eyed Raven is confirmed by Benjen: "You are the Three-Eyed Raven now." (New Title)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origin of Hodor's name and condition during a visit to Winterfell's past where he wargs into a young Wylas and gives him a vision of his ultimate demise years in the future at the Door. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

Deaths

51:13 (+10) Bran Stark:

Summer is cut down by a horde of wights in the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern as Bran, Meera, and Hodor make their escape. (Death)

51:57 (+10) Three-eyed raven:

The Three-Eyed Raven is cut down by the White Walker King after the White Walkers and their wights invade his cavern. "The time has come. Leave me." (Death)

+1 for Alliser Thorne, +1 for Balon Greyjoy, +1 for Olly

Special

16:02 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into the weirwood.net with the Three-Eyed Raven to revisit a scene with the Children of the Forest at the Weirwood tree. (Special)

19:44 (+3) Theon Greyjoy:

Theon elects to stump for his sister Yara, after other some of the other Ironborn nominate him to inherit the Salt Throne. "I am Theon Greyjoy, last living son of Balon Greyjoy ... and she is your rightful ruler." (Special)

36:51 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into weirwood.net while the Three-Eyed Raven is asleep, jumping into a vision of a frozen wasteland surrounded by wights and the White Walkers. (Special)

47:25 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran has a vision of the day his young father departed Winterfell for the Vale. (Special)

50:27 (+3) Bran Stark:

While embedded in a vision of Winterfell's past, Bran subconsciously wargs into Hodor in the present time so that they can escape from the White Walker horde approaching the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Special)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

While visiting a flashback in Winterfell's past, Bran wargs into a young Wylas, giving him a vision of his present day demise while holding the Door to allow Bran and Meera time to escape the White Walker horde. (Special)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

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