Matchup: The Usurpers vs The Sand Snakes for Ep 5

The Usurpers (drico2424)

Character	Drafted	Total	Deaths	Special
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys controls a vast network of spies. After smuggling Tyrion Lannister to Essos, he reveals himself as a supporter of Daenerys Targaryen's claim to the Iron Throne. In Daenerys' absence, he serves with Tyrion Lannister and presides over the rule of Meereen.	#18	3	0	3
Khal Moro The leader of a new Khalasar of Dothraki.	#47	1	1	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#31	0	0	0
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#50	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, bannermen to the Lannisters. He defeated Prince Oberyn Martell in a trial by combat for Tyrion Lannister's role in King Joffrey's death, although he was gravely injured in the fight. He appears to have recovered (in some form) under Grand Maester Qyburn's care, and returns to serve as a member of the Kingsguard.	#34	0	0	0
Davos Seaworth Ser Davos is a knight serving Stannis Baratheon, and one of his most trusted advisors. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#15	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#2	0	0	0
Smalljon Umber The son of Greatjon Umber, heir to House Umber and bannerman to the Starks.	-	0	0	0
Totals		4	1	3

The Sand Snakes (m.gucwa4)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Deaths	Special
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#12	53	19	9	10	15
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death.	#44	0	0	0	0	0
Mace Tyrell The head of House Tyrell and Lord of Highgarden. He is the father of Loras and Margaery. While bumbling and appearing incompetent, he heads a powerful House and serves as both Master of Ships and Master of Coin on King Tommen Baratheon's Small Council.	#53	0	0	0	0	0
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#28	0	0	0	0	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He recently accompanied Jaime Lannister on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Dorne to rescue the Princeess Myrcella Baratheon.	#21	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#37	0	0	0	0	0
Olyvar A former prostitute, Olyvar now manages Littlefinger's brothels while he is away in the Eyrie. He plays a key role in the Sparrows' indictment and imprisonment of Loras Tyrell.	#60	0	0	0	0	0
Ramsay Bolton The legitimized bastard son of Roose Bolton, now Warden of the North. He is fond of the Bolton tradition of flaying their enemies.	#5	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		53	19	9	10	15

Kills

49:26 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer leaps onto the second wight just before it attacks Meera Reed. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

51:10 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer dives into the crowd of wights as Bran and company make their escape out of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. He lands on one wight but is quickly cut down by the horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I don't think we actually see Summer kill any wights. -tbaum9842

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2016 May 23 nyan and ddenault85 like this
:( :( :( -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23
Shouldn't we get credit for Summer's death too? -jamesrscottjr81

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2016 May 23
Bar is set fairly low for fights with henchmen/redshirts. From the rulebook spec: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes." -nyan

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2016 May 23
Summer's death counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/2461 -nyan

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2016 May 23

53:44 (+5) Bran Stark:

Bran mentally debilitates a young Wylas by warging into him, offering him a glimpse of his future demise at the Door. (Major Injury of Named Character)

55:15 (+10) Bran Stark:

While warged in, Bran forces Hodor to hold the Door against the horde of wights as he and Meera make their escape, sacrificing him in the process. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

@Lem Bran only half-consciously controlling the Hodors sounds like a good argument for excluding it as a betrayal. It's ambiguous even to what extent Bran is aware of how he is controlling things (both in past vision and real world), and thus it's hard to say he betrayed anyone in his subconscious (intent should matter for betrayals, else klutzy chars like Podrick would be "betraying" friends with their screwups all the time). -nyan

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2016 May 26
Really good perspectives you both brought up about the kills. I think bookworm is right that we should try to exclude intent - can of worms as you say, and accidental kills should definitely be possible.

Thinking through this, it does feel like there should be some criteria that allows for putting someone into a situation where they'll definitely be killed. Scar flinging Mufasa down to the stampeding buffalo in Long King comes to mind - no control over the actual killers there, but the death doesn't happen without Scar's direct action. From a pedantic perspective this could apply to Balon's death as well - even if it's the ocean that drowned him, it was Euron's throw that put him into that situation (and scorekeeping is all about pedantry =P).

I think we can expand on kills commanded here and ultimately include those under a subset of "inevitable death situation" rules:
I. The killer forces the victim into the situation against their will
II. The situation leads to *inevitable* death
II.I. The entity or force that directly kills the victim needs no skill or decision-making to make the kill, aside from following the commands of the killer.
III. The directly killer still gets rewarded duplicate kill points, if applicable.

What that means for the scenarios we've talked about:
1. Executions like Ned's and Fat Walda's (previously covered by Commanded Kills) are included, since the victims are imprisoned (forced into situation), and could do nothing to avoid death (inevitable). This should be the same whether it was a human killer (Ilyn Payne), controlled animals (Ramsay's hounds), as neither needed skill or decision-making (aside from following commands).

2. Scar throwing Mufasa into a canyon of stampeding buffalo is also included. Even without directly controlling the physical killers, the inevitability and lack of skill/decision-making is the same. Imagine if Ramsay throws Fat Walda into a pit of snakes instead.

3. Pushing the victim into a sword held by someone else would be a more nuanced case. As mentioned above, we don't want to get into judging the intent of the indirect killer here:

3a. The victim is shoved toward the sword-holder, who happens to have his sword positioned in a way that impales the victim. Included for the person-pusher, as no skill/decision or even actions were taken by the sword-holder. This would be the same as if the sword-holder was instead a jagged rock.

3b. The victim is shoved in the direction of the sword-holder, who must aim and position his weapon precisely to impale the victim. This would be excluded for the person-pusher, as it required skill/decision-making on the part of the sword-holder.

4. Most "noble suicides" are excluded by criteria I, because the victim willingly put themselves in it (still counted if they are physically killed by their own action, like Leaf's hand grenade).

5. In all above scenarios, the direct killer (Ilyn, Ramsay's hound, sword-holder) still gets credit. -nyan

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2016 May 26 dopeghoti likes this
I think that's definitely a fair way to approach it -bookworm13457

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2016 May 26

Political Wins

17:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origins of the White Walkers - created by the Children of the Forest - during a warg visit to the past.
Bran: "It was you. You made the White Walkers."
Leaf: "We were at war. We were being slaughtered. Our sacred trees cut down. We needed to defend ourselves." (Secret Discovery)

45:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran's status as the Three Eyed Raven is confirmed by Benjen: "You are the Three-Eyed Raven now." (New Title)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origin of Hodor's name and condition during a visit to Winterfell's past where he wargs into a young Wylas and gives him a vision of his ultimate demise years in the future at the Door. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

Deaths

51:13 (+10) Bran Stark:

Summer is cut down by a horde of wights in the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern as Bran, Meera, and Hodor make their escape. (Death)

+1 for Khal Moro

Special

16:02 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into the weirwood.net with the Three-Eyed Raven to revisit a scene with the Children of the Forest at the Weirwood tree. (Special)

34:36 (+3) Varys:

High Priestess Kinvara talks to Varys about his castration.
"If not for your... mutilation at the hand of a second-rate sorcerer, you wouldn't be here. Helping the Lord's Chosen bring his light into the world... Do you remember what you heard that night when the sorcerer tossed your parts in the fire?" (Special)

submitted by emilien.raggi (approved!)

36:51 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into weirwood.net while the Three-Eyed Raven is asleep, jumping into a vision of a frozen wasteland surrounded by wights and the White Walkers. (Special)

47:25 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran has a vision of the day his young father departed Winterfell for the Vale. (Special)

50:27 (+3) Bran Stark:

While embedded in a vision of Winterfell's past, Bran subconsciously wargs into Hodor in the present time so that they can escape from the White Walker horde approaching the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Special)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

While visiting a flashback in Winterfell's past, Bran wargs into a young Wylas, giving him a vision of his present day demise while holding the Door to allow Bran and Meera time to escape the White Walker horde. (Special)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

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