Matchup: Casterly Dragon vs Demon Monkey Crew for Ep 5

Casterly Dragon (autouser)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Insults	Deaths	Special
Hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor. hodor.	#37	110	1	0	10	99
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. A sworn sword to the late Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#21	3	0	3	0	0
Alliser Thorne A former master-of-arms and acting Commander of the Night's Watch, Thorne narrowly lost the Lord Commander choosing to Jon Snow in S5. He later led a mutiny of disgruntled Night's Watch members against Jon Snow, stabbing and leaving him for dead.	#29	1	0	0	1	0
Roose Bolton Lord of House Bolton, and Warden of the North after his betrayal of Robb Stark at the Red Wedding. He is the father of Ramsay Bolton, who is his legitimized bastard son.	#20	1	0	0	1	0
Khal Moro The leader of a new Khalasar of Dothraki.	#45	1	0	0	1	0
Osha A wildling woman who serves the Starks. She splits off from Bran's group and travels with Rickon.	#61	1	0	0	1	0
Doran Martell The head of House Martell of Dorne, and elder brother of Prince Oberyn Martell.	#36	1	0	0	1	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#4	0	0	0	0	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Formerly the Master of Coin, Littlefinger is a conniving political mastermind and serves as Warden of the East after his behind-the-scenes assassination of Lisa Tully.	#13	0	0	0	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#44	0	0	0	0	0
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Free-spirited and rebellious, Arya escaped the war-ravaged Westeros and currently resides in Braavos, where she trains under the face-changing assassin Jaqen H'ghar in the House of Black and White.	#12	0	0	0	0	0
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and recently returns from a mission to Dorne to rescue his daughter/niece, Myrcella Baratheon.	#5	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She wields a whip.	#53	0	0	0	0	0
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#28	0	0	0	0	0
Olyvar A former prostitute, Olyvar now manages Littlefinger's brothels while he is away in the Eyrie. He plays a key role in the Sparrows' indictment and imprisonment of Loras Tyrell.	#60	0	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#52	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		118	1	3	15	99

Demon Monkey Crew (jammo444)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#1	53	19	9	0	10	15
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#16	16	10	6	0	0	0
Three-eyed raven A mysterious man who lives far north of the Wall with the Children of the Forest. He has been guiding Bran's dreams through the form of a three-eyed raven.	#64	10	0	0	0	10	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. Sansa has spent many of her past years as prisoner to the Lannisters and more recently, House Bolton, the new Warden of the North. Currently she is married to Ramsay, the heir of House Bolton, who keeps her imprisoned in Winterfell and tortures her sadistically. During the Bolton battle against Stannis Baratheon's forces, Sansa escapes over the Winterfell walls with the help of Theon Greyjoy, and the two make their way as far from the Boltons as possible. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#8	9	0	3	6	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon has been broken through torture by the hands of Ramsay Bolton, but has escaped Winterfell along with Sansa Stark during the chaos of the Battle of Winterfell.	#25	3	0	0	0	0	3
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment. He returned to her service during a revolt in the fighting pits of Meereen, and now travels with Daario Naharis to rescue Daenerys, who has disappeared along with one of her dragons, Drogon.	#9	3	0	0	0	0	3
Trystane Martell Prince Doran Martell's son, and heir to Dorne. He is betrothed to Myrcella Baratheon, and accompanies her back to King's Landing to serve on the Small Council.	#41	1	0	0	0	1	0
Walder Frey The elderly Lord of the Twins and now Lord of Riverrun after his betrayal of Robb Stark and the Northern forces.	#40	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tyene Sand The youngest of Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She uses daggers and poisons as her weapons.	#49	0	0	0	0	0	0
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#24	0	0	0	0	0	0
Davos Seaworth Ser Davos is a knight serving Stannis Baratheon, and one of his most trusted advisors. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#17	0	0	0	0	0	0
Mace Tyrell The head of House Tyrell and Lord of Highgarden. He is the father of Loras and Margaery. While bumbling and appearing incompetent, he heads a powerful House and serves as both Master of Ships and Master of Coin on King Tommen Baratheon's Small Council.	#57	0	0	0	0	0	0
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although Petyr Baelish serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#56	0	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#33	0	0	0	0	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna is the grandmother of Margaery and Loras. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#32	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death.	#48	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		95	29	18	6	21	21

Kills

49:26 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer leaps onto the second wight just before it attacks Meera Reed. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

51:10 (+2) Bran Stark:

Summer dives into the crowd of wights as Bran and company make their escape out of the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern. He lands on one wight but is quickly cut down by the horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I don't think we actually see Summer kill any wights. -tbaum9842

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2016 May 23 nyan and ddenault85 like this
:( :( :( -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23
Shouldn't we get credit for Summer's death too? -jamesrscottjr81

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2016 May 23
Bar is set fairly low for fights with henchmen/redshirts. From the rulebook spec: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes." -nyan

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2016 May 23
Summer's death counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/2461 -nyan

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2016 May 23

51:57 (+10) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walker King cuts down the Three-Eyed Raven after gaining access to his cavern via Bran's unsupervised vision. (Kill of Named Character)

He doesn't get kill points for the people the wights kill? They are under his magical command. -rblaine.morris

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2016 May 23 tbaum9842, rynearson.david, korina.rangel like this
That sounds impossible to score. Although he was on my team this episode so it would be great for me, but if they started counting army kills for the commander it would lead into impossible to count territory pretty fast. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 23 shrest18, dopeghoti, nyan like this
Typically for a battle scene, the army's actions are not automatically counted for the commander. Here's the exact criteria from the rulebook: "A commanded kill is counted, if it requires absolutely no skill on the part of the person carrying it out."

This brings up an interesting point because the WW King "commands" the wights much more directly than any human commands an army. But I think it still falls into the category of the wights acting of their own zombie-mentality accord.

Note that WW King does get credit for winning the battle in general: http://fantasora.com/event/2492 -nyan

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2016 May 23
Do we really already know how the WW King commands the wights or do we all just assume that from theories and lore? :D I noticed that I kind of mixed it all up in my head and can't really tell apart anymore what was in the series, what's in the books and what I have from the tinfoiliest theories out there :p -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 23
But he was clearly fully in control of them at hard home otherwise they wouldn't have stopped fighting and would have kept chasing after the boats instead of just standing there. He did all of this by silently walking out on a dock and raising his arms -rblaine.morris

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2016 May 24 Lem Lemoncake likes this

53:21 (+1) Hodor:

Hodor shuts the door on the horde of wights, severing the hand of one who just managed to slip its arm past the door. (Major Injury of Unnamed Character)

53:44 (+5) Bran Stark:

Bran mentally debilitates a young Wylas by warging into him, offering him a glimpse of his future demise at the Door. (Major Injury of Named Character)

55:15 (+10) Bran Stark:

While warged in, Bran forces Hodor to hold the Door against the horde of wights as he and Meera make their escape, sacrificing him in the process. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

@Lem Bran only half-consciously controlling the Hodors sounds like a good argument for excluding it as a betrayal. It's ambiguous even to what extent Bran is aware of how he is controlling things (both in past vision and real world), and thus it's hard to say he betrayed anyone in his subconscious (intent should matter for betrayals, else klutzy chars like Podrick would be "betraying" friends with their screwups all the time). -nyan

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2016 May 26
Really good perspectives you both brought up about the kills. I think bookworm is right that we should try to exclude intent - can of worms as you say, and accidental kills should definitely be possible.

Thinking through this, it does feel like there should be some criteria that allows for putting someone into a situation where they'll definitely be killed. Scar flinging Mufasa down to the stampeding buffalo in Long King comes to mind - no control over the actual killers there, but the death doesn't happen without Scar's direct action. From a pedantic perspective this could apply to Balon's death as well - even if it's the ocean that drowned him, it was Euron's throw that put him into that situation (and scorekeeping is all about pedantry =P).

I think we can expand on kills commanded here and ultimately include those under a subset of "inevitable death situation" rules:
I. The killer forces the victim into the situation against their will
II. The situation leads to *inevitable* death
II.I. The entity or force that directly kills the victim needs no skill or decision-making to make the kill, aside from following the commands of the killer.
III. The directly killer still gets rewarded duplicate kill points, if applicable.

What that means for the scenarios we've talked about:
1. Executions like Ned's and Fat Walda's (previously covered by Commanded Kills) are included, since the victims are imprisoned (forced into situation), and could do nothing to avoid death (inevitable). This should be the same whether it was a human killer (Ilyn Payne), controlled animals (Ramsay's hounds), as neither needed skill or decision-making (aside from following commands).

2. Scar throwing Mufasa into a canyon of stampeding buffalo is also included. Even without directly controlling the physical killers, the inevitability and lack of skill/decision-making is the same. Imagine if Ramsay throws Fat Walda into a pit of snakes instead.

3. Pushing the victim into a sword held by someone else would be a more nuanced case. As mentioned above, we don't want to get into judging the intent of the indirect killer here:

3a. The victim is shoved toward the sword-holder, who happens to have his sword positioned in a way that impales the victim. Included for the person-pusher, as no skill/decision or even actions were taken by the sword-holder. This would be the same as if the sword-holder was instead a jagged rock.

3b. The victim is shoved in the direction of the sword-holder, who must aim and position his weapon precisely to impale the victim. This would be excluded for the person-pusher, as it required skill/decision-making on the part of the sword-holder.

4. Most "noble suicides" are excluded by criteria I, because the victim willingly put themselves in it (still counted if they are physically killed by their own action, like Leaf's hand grenade).

5. In all above scenarios, the direct killer (Ilyn, Ramsay's hound, sword-holder) still gets credit. -nyan

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2016 May 26 dopeghoti likes this
I think that's definitely a fair way to approach it -bookworm13457

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2016 May 26

Political Wins

6:05 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa learns of the re-emergence of the Blackfish and the Tully army. "Your great-uncle, Brynden the Blackfish, has gathered what remains of the Tully forces and retaken Riverrun. (Secret Discovery)

17:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origins of the White Walkers - created by the Children of the Forest - during a warg visit to the past.
Bran: "It was you. You made the White Walkers."
Leaf: "We were at war. We were being slaughtered. Our sacred trees cut down. We needed to defend ourselves." (Secret Discovery)

39:04 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walker King discovers the location of Bran and the Three-Eyed Raven after Bran's unsupervised usage of the Weirwood Palantir. (Secret Discovery)

45:24 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran's status as the Three Eyed Raven is confirmed by Benjen: "You are the Three-Eyed Raven now." (New Title)

submitted by alexanderdropkin (approved!)

51:57 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The White Walkers defeat the magical defenses of the Children of the Forest, slaughtering Leaf and her companions and killing the Three-Eyed Raven with their horde of wights. (Victorious Battle)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the origin of Hodor's name and condition during a visit to Winterfell's past where he wargs into a young Wylas and gives him a vision of his ultimate demise years in the future at the Door. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

3:06 (+3) Sansa Stark:

to Littlefinger: "Did you know about Ramsay? If you didn't know you're an idiot. If you did know, you're my enemy." (Witty Insult)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

4:49 (+3) Sansa Stark:

to Littlefinger: "You said you would protect me... I don't believe you anymore... You can't protect me. You won't even be able to protect yourself if I tell Brienne to cut you down." (Threat)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

42:47 (+3) Brienne of Tarth:

Brienne: "I don't like leaving you here alone."
Sansa: "With Jon?"
Brienne: "Not him. He seems trustworthy. A bit... brooding, perhaps. I suppose that's understandable, considering. The others, though. Davos and the Red Woman helped a man murder his own brother with bloodmagic... and that wildling fellow with the beard-" (Funny Line)

Deaths

51:13 (+10) Bran Stark:

Summer is cut down by a horde of wights in the Three-Eyed Raven's cavern as Bran, Meera, and Hodor make their escape. (Death)

51:57 (+10) Three-eyed raven:

The Three-Eyed Raven is cut down by the White Walker King after the White Walkers and their wights invade his cavern. "The time has come. Leave me." (Death)

55:15 (+10) Hodor:

"Hold the door." (Death)

all the tears ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????_???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? -nyan

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2016 May 23
? -britni

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2016 May 23
Poor guy never got that fried egg and blood sausage :( -sanford

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2016 May 23 Lem Lemoncake likes this
He will live on in the memories of every future "hold the door closed to delay a horde" scene forevermore. -dopeghoti

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2016 May 23 nyan, Lem Lemoncake, jedjackoway like this

+1 for Osha, +1 for Alliser Thorne, +1 for Roose Bolton, +1 for Doran Martell, +1 for Trystane Martell, +1 for Khal Moro

Special

16:02 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into the weirwood.net with the Three-Eyed Raven to revisit a scene with the Children of the Forest at the Weirwood tree. (Special)

19:44 (+3) Theon Greyjoy:

Theon elects to stump for his sister Yara, after other some of the other Ironborn nominate him to inherit the Salt Throne. "I am Theon Greyjoy, last living son of Balon Greyjoy ... and she is your rightful ruler." (Special)

28:19 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Jorah admits his love for Daenerys after revealing his fatal greyscale infection. "Tyrion Lannister was right. I love you. I'll always love you. Good-bye, Khaleesi." (Special)

submitted by wsleppy (approved!)

36:51 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran taps into weirwood.net while the Three-Eyed Raven is asleep, jumping into a vision of a frozen wasteland surrounded by wights and the White Walkers. (Special)

39:37 (+3) Hodor:

"Hodor." (Special)

45:45 (+3) Hodor:

"Ho-hodor." (Special)

45:57 (+3) Hodor:

"Hodor." (Special)

46:02 (+3) Hodor:

"...Hodor." (Special)

47:21 (+6) Hodor:

"Hodor. Hodor." (Special)

47:25 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran has a vision of the day his young father departed Winterfell for the Vale. (Special)

47:43 (+6) Hodor:

"Hodor... hodor." (Special)

49:31 (+12) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor... hodor. hodor!" (Special)

49:51 (+6) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor!" (Special)

50:09 (+6) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor." (Special)

50:22 (+18) Hodor:

"hodor. hodor! hodor. hodor! hodor! hodor!" (Special)

50:27 (+3) Bran Stark:

While embedded in a vision of Winterfell's past, Bran subconsciously wargs into Hodor in the present time so that they can escape from the White Walker horde approaching the cavern of the Three-Eyed Raven. (Special)

53:44 (+3) Bran Stark:

While visiting a flashback in Winterfell's past, Bran wargs into a young Wylas, giving him a vision of his present day demise while holding the Door to allow Bran and Meera time to escape the White Walker horde. (Special)

submitted by wpearsal (approved!)

55:07 (+33) Hodor:

"Ho-dor Hooodor [hodedor hodedor] hooodor hooodor hodor. hodor. Hodor. Hodor. Hodor. Hodor. Hodor." (Special)

We ended up counted the distinctly two-syllable "hodors" as Wylas made the gradual transition from "hold the door". The two "hodedors" in the last sequence are not counted. -nyan

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2016 May 23 thederekwilson, james.vonhagel, jedjackoway, dopeghoti, 3 others like this
I was wondering as I watched whether only "hodors" would be counting or of the "hodedoor"s would slip through. That must have been a bear to get a count on. -dopeghoti

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/fantasora.com/public_html/src/Util/TimeUtil.php on line 10
2016 May 23
Appreciate all your hard work, Nathan. -marcelcdn

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/fantasora.com/public_html/src/Util/TimeUtil.php on line 10
2016 May 25 nyan, Er1cThornton, wpearsal like this

©
Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/fantasora.com/public_html/templates/footer.php on line 2
2025 Nathan Yan

Release 1.8.7 | Legalese