Matchup: Casterly Dragon vs Gendry's row squad for Ep 6

Casterly Dragon (autouser)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths	Special
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and recently returns from a mission to Dorne to rescue his daughter/niece, Myrcella Baratheon.	#5	32	10	6	6	0	10	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#44	26	0	9	12	5	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#4	16	0	3	0	0	10	0	3
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Free-spirited and rebellious, Arya escaped the war-ravaged Westeros and currently resides in Braavos, where she trains under the face-changing assassin Jaqen H'ghar in the House of Black and White.	#12	6	0	6	0	0	0	0	0
Alliser Thorne A former master-of-arms and acting Commander of the Night's Watch, Thorne narrowly lost the Lord Commander choosing to Jon Snow in S5. He later led a mutiny of disgruntled Night's Watch members against Jon Snow, stabbing and leaving him for dead.	#29	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0
Doran Martell The head of House Martell of Dorne, and elder brother of Prince Oberyn Martell.	#36	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0
Hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor. hodor.	#37	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0
Khal Moro The leader of a new Khalasar of Dothraki.	#45	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0
Osha A wildling woman who serves the Starks. She splits off from Bran's group and travels with Rickon.	#61	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0
Roose Bolton Lord of House Bolton, and Warden of the North after his betrayal of Robb Stark at the Red Wedding. He is the father of Ramsay Bolton, who is his legitimized bastard son.	#20	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Formerly the Master of Coin, Littlefinger is a conniving political mastermind and serves as Warden of the East after his behind-the-scenes assassination of Lisa Tully.	#13	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#52	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. A sworn sword to the late Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#21	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#28	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She wields a whip.	#53	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Olyvar A former prostitute, Olyvar now manages Littlefinger's brothels while he is away in the Eyrie. He plays a key role in the Sparrows' indictment and imprisonment of Loras Tyrell.	#60	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		86	10	24	18	5	20	6	3

Gendry's row squad (martineza417)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Deaths
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#14	15	15	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker. He journeys south to begin his training as a Maester to replace the aging Maester Aemon.	#27	9	6	3	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	#46	3	0	3	0
Daenerys Targaryen The last royal member of the Targaryen dynasty, Daenerys and her three dragons have carved out a revolutionary empire in the east, liberating several slave cities and acquiring an army of Unsullied warriors. Her recent rule over the slave city of Meereen has been met with strife, however, and she currently finds herself lost with her largest dragon, Drogon, in Dothraki territory.	#3	3	3	0	0
Olly An orphan boy of the Night's Watch, and a squire for Lord Commander Jon Snow. He is part of the mutiny that betrays Jon and leaves him for dead.	#59	1	0	0	1
Rickon Stark The youngest of the Stark children. He splits off from Bran and travels with Osha to the Last Hearth, seat of House Umber.	#43	1	0	0	1
Areo Hotah The personal bodyguard for Doran Martell.	#54	1	0	0	1
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own.	#38	0	0	0	0
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#62	0	0	0	0
Euron Greyjoy An uncle to Theon Greyjoy, Euron is an infamous pirate who has terrorized seas all around the world. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#30	0	0	0	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He recently accompanied Jaime Lannister on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Dorne to rescue the Princeess Myrcella Baratheon.	#11	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#35	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover.	#19	0	0	0	0
Tormund Giantsbane A leader of the Wildlings, and formerly a trusted lieutenant and second-in-command to Mance Rayder, the King Beyond the Wall. Although they have met in battle more than once, he bears a grudging respect for Jon Snow.	#22	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, bannermen to the Lannisters. He defeated Prince Oberyn Martell in a trial by combat for Tyrion Lannister's role in King Joffrey's death, although he was gravely injured in the fight. He appears to have recovered (in some form) under Grand Maester Qyburn's care, and returns to serve as a member of the Kingsguard.	#51	0	0	0	0
Jon Snow The bastard son of Ned Stark, and the current Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After guiding the Wildlings to safety in the aftermath of the Battle of Castle Black and the attack on Hardhome, he was betrayed by a mutiny of the Night's Watch, and left for dead in the snow.	#6	0	0	0	0
Totals		33	24	6	3

Kills

2:50 (+10) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime slays the Mad King Aerys II during one of Bran's flashback visions. (Kill of Named Character)

8 more comments - see full thread

I guess we did count Ned killing Arthur Dayne in the other flashback right? Even though that had been discussed before in the series, points weren't awarded because we never saw it until the flashback. I even drafted a character who I think will die in a flashback later this season, so I don't know why I initially had a problem with it. More kills! More points! -wpearsal

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2016 Jun 1
Everything during Bran's flashbacks have counted (Ned's Tower of Joy scene, mainly). Everything happening in flashbacks will count, as long as it's new material (e.g. flashback to Ned's execution doesn't count, since we already saw it in S1). -nyan

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2016 Jun 1 kailin, sanford, emilien.raggi, moonbaseu92 like this
I have to contest Jamie's intercourse points. Does a kissing scene now count as intercourse? Just wondering if we are now simply assuming something happens even if we don't see it on screen... -Tose

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2016 Jun 3

Political Wins

2:50 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime stabs the Mad King Aerys II in the back during one of Bran's flashback visions. (Act of Betrayal)

10:24 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow convinces King Tommen to allow Margaery to proceed with her Walk of Atonement.
Tommen: "Is there no other way? ... It just seems very dangerous."
High Sparrow: "She'll be protected the entire way. The Faith Militant are very stern with those who overstep their bounds." (Convincing Argument)

18:25 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll discovers Gilly's true origins as a Wildling from north of the Wall.
Randyll: "Your way *down* to Castle Black? Where did he kill a White Walker? Where are you from? How'd you come to meet my son?"
Gilly: "The Night's Watch came to our keep."
Randyll: "Where?"
Gilly: "North of the Wall."
Randyll: "North of the Wall? You're a Wildling." (Secret Discovery)

20:47 (+6) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll takes in Gilly and Little Sam: "Your mother's a fine woman. You're not worthy of her. To please her, I'll take the Wildling in. She can work in the kitchens. The bastard will be raised here." (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by goodjujumagic (approved!)

8 more comments - see full thread

That is the loosest definition of the word "follower" -alexanderdropkin

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2016 Jun 4
> They never served him

It's a good point and we may want to also tighten up the criteria on when someone enters official follower/prisoner status. Should we have seen Gilly actually work in the kitchens once? -nyan

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2016 Jun 4
I think she would actually have to become his follower. A good 10 seconds of screen time (between Randyll deciding and Sam deciding against it) shouldn't count. But also I don't think working in the kitchens at Hornhill is good enough. Who was she actually serving? The head of the kitchen? Melissa Tarly? It could've been any of the Tarlys. I think it needs to be a clear follower/servant/prisoner relationship -alexanderdropkin

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2016 Jun 4 dopeghoti likes this

23:27 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals his father's Valyrian steel sword, Heartsbane, from above the family mantlepiece.
Gilly: "Sam. That's your father's sword."
Sam: "It's my family's sword."
Gilly: "Sam. Won't he come for it?"
Sam: "He can bloody well try." (New Weapon)

23:30 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

On his last night in Horn Hill, Samwell steals his father's Valyrian steel sword, Heartsbane, from above the family mantlepiece.
Gilly: "Sam. That's your father's sword."
Sam: "It's my family's sword."
Gilly: "Sam. Won't he come for it?"
Sam: "He can bloody well try." (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by emilien.raggi (approved!)

Well, he actually changed his allegiance when entering the Night's Watch but the theft should still be considered some kind of betrayal, as Lord Randyll goes on about how Sam has no right to Heartsbane during the family reunion dinner. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1
Actually, he rather clarifies that Sam _does_ have a right to it, but that intends to defy that right. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 2
True! Still, I feel this should somehow be counted as an act of betrayal.
Although, diving a little deeper into Westerosi inheritance customs: That Sam cannot inherit anything, be it Randyll's title, the castle, the weapon or anything else, has become self-evident for every Westerosi, the moment Sam joined the Night's Watch. This is an essential part of NW membership. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 2
But well.. the lore/background shouldn't have such an importance. What counts is the depicition of events in the series, I'd say. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 2
just because Sam doesn't have a right to the sword doesn't mean its not a betrayal. It is his family, allegiance has nothing to do with inheritance. -cmwalken15

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2016 Jun 2
he gave up his family name though when he took the black -as38

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2016 Jun 2

30:28 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow announces Margaery's crimes to the masses gathered at the Sept of Baelor. "Rich or poor, noble or common, if we sin, we must atone. Margaery of House Tyrell came to us a sinner. She stood before the gods in the holy sept and lied. She turned a blind eye to her brother's sins. She disgraced her house, her King, and herself." (Politics Special)

8 more comments - see full thread

What about everytime he deescalates a confrontation? He's done that basically every episode. -julian.aronowitz

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2016 Jun 1
Proposition for new Sparrow special, using others who have multiple triggers as a template:
+1 each time the High Sparrow publicly outs a draftable character's sins or crimes
+1 each time he deescalates an impending violent conflict
+1 each time he makes specific reference to his past as a cobbler, or his current barefootedness. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 1 as38, julian.aronowitz, Ser Vincent, nyan like this
I think it's definitely good to count this even if he has already publicly outed Margaery as a sinner. It's exactely this obnoxious way of using every situation to make every last person aware of the sinner that is his speciality. It's like Daenerys repeating her titles over and over again and I'm sure there are more examples.
I assume the repetition came up here because of the question if kills that have already been shown should count if they reappear in Bran's visions? There I would disagree, but to me these are two entirely different things. It might help to step out of the scoring framework for an instant and think about how you experience these different acts while watching the episodes (without having the fantasy league in mind :D).

Maybe, it might also help to think in terms of plot and story. A kill happens once in the story, but the plot may deliver information about that at another time within the narrative - or even multiple times. The High Sparrow's multiple announcements do actually happen that often. Furthermore, it's not about revealing a secret, it's the act of denouncing he likes so much :)

At least that's my understanding of the way this game works, hah. Correct me if I'm wrong :o -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1

30:46 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya betrays Bianca, who had entrusted her murder plot of Lady Crane to the Faceless Men. "Careful that one... she wants you dead." (Act of Betrayal)

31:15 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya reclaims Needle, which she had buried into the docks of Braavos. (New Weapon)

36:49 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow picks up an ownership stake in King's Landing after announcing a joint venture with Tommen Baratheon to make the Seven Kingdoms great again.
High Sparrow: "Together we announce a new age of harmony. A holy alliance between the Crown and the Faith."
Tommen: "The Crown and the Faith are the twin pillars upon which the world rests. Together we will restore the Seven Kingdoms to glory." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

submitted by as38 (approved!)

Definitely a huge coup for him this episode. Aside from getting Margaery/Tommen on his side, it was hard to pinpoint something concrete for this new "holy alliance", e.g. did he get promoted to a Pope Sparrow, or is he now effectively in control of King's Landing as you say (technically it should still be Tommen). -nyan

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2016 Jun 1
i think it is both tommen and the high sparrow in control of kings landing, the crown and the faith, tommen didnt lose kings landing he merely entered a joint venture with the high sparrow for shared control -as38

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2016 Jun 1 nyan likes this
Tommen didn't lose titular control over King's Landing (and indeed the Seven Kingdoms), but the High Sparrow is certainly going to take advantage of Tommen coming under his metaphorical wing. So to speak. Definitely a gain for the High Sparrow, but not a loss for Tommen per se. -dopeghoti

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2016 Jun 1 as38 likes this

36:52 (+6) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow announces the latest high-profile devotees to sign onto Team Sparrow, in a joint press conference with Tommen Baratheon and Margaery Tyrell.

"Queen Margaery has already atoned for her sins by bringing another into the true light of the Seven. Together we announce a new age of harmony. A holy alliance between the Crown and the Faith." (New Follower/Prisoner)

41:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Despite being demoted out of the Kingsguard, Jaime is assigned a new role as head of the Lannister armies sent to deal with the Blackfish in the Riverlands. "I'm being sent to deal with the Blackfish. Apparently Walder Frey can't manage it on his own because he's 400 years old. Sent me with an army to the Riverlands and a siege that could last months." (New Title)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

42:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei convinces Jaime to accept Tommen's assignment to lead the Lannister army to assist Walder Frey in taking back Riverrun.

"Stand at the head of our army where you belong, where Father wanted you. Show our men where their loyalties belong. Show them what Lannisters are, what we do to our enemies. And take that stupid little castle back because it's ours and because you can." (Convincing Argument)

48:41 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After burning down the Vaes Dothrak gym, Daenerys earns the appropriate badge to regain control over Drogon, riding him in dramatic fashion over her crowd of Dothraki followers. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by Lem Lemoncake (approved!)

9 more comments - see full thread

Anyway, the scene was kinda poorly scripted; but just the point of flying in there on a fucking huge dragon and shouting epic shit at people with blades in their hands was such an incredibly badass move that she definitely needed to get points for it, no matter what :D I know it's rather impossible to score, but Dany's special should be "performing acts of exceptional badassery/awesomeness" -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1
Love this description! -dneanover

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2016 Jun 1 nyan likes this
Judging from his facial expression, this probably wasn't exactely the same thing Daaribro had in mind when talking about "riding the dragon" a few episodes ago :o -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 Jun 1 nyan likes this

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

6:29 (+3) Gilly:

to Sam: "You're nervous. You're a nervous talker. [prolonged silence] ... That's not any better being a nervous mute." (Witty Insult)

7:24 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam: "I told them I met you in the North."
Gilly: "Did you tell them how far north?"
Sam: "Well, it wasn't a very large piece of parchment..." (Funny Line)

16:57 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Melessa Tarly: "Samwell, would you care for more bread?"
Sam: "Oh, yes. Yes, please."
Randyll Tarly: "Not fat enough already?" (Witty Insult)

17:26 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

to Sam: "I thought the Night's Watch might make a man of you. Something resembling a man at least. You managed to stay soft, and fat. Your nose buried in books. Spending your life reading about the achievements of better men." (Witty Insult)

19:52 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

"I took you (Gilly) for a Mole's Town whore when I saw you and I made my peace with that. Who else would have him (Samwell)? But I overestimated him. No, it was a Wildling whore that seduced my son." (Witty Insult)

20:40 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

referring to Gilly: "This you getting back at me, boy? Bringing *that* to my table and making me dine with *it*?" (Witty Insult)

submitted by goodjujumagic (approved!)

35:18 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

to High Sparrow: "You've already insulted one great house. It won't happen twice. Every last sparrow will die before Margaery Tyrell walks down that street." (Threat)

41:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

"I'm being sent to deal with the Blackfish. Apparently Walder Frey can't manage it on his own because he's 400 years old." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

15:46 (+5) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll drinks after toasting to his son Dickon for the 70-yard deer kill from that day's hunt. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

43:08 (+10) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei and Jaime get it on after hot and heavy dirty talk about the power of House Lannister and destroying their enemies. "They've made us both stronger, all of them. They have no idea how strong we are. No idea what we're going to do to them. We've always been together. We'll always be together." (Act of Intercourse)

43:08 (+10) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime and Cersei get it on after hot and heavy dirty talk about the power of House Lannister and destroying their enemies. "They've made us both stronger, all of them. They have no idea how strong we are. No idea what we're going to do to them. We've always been together. We'll always be together." (Act of Intercourse)

10 more comments - see full thread

Hopefully this will become clearer when I can make a detailed breakdown for each scoring event. The sex category gets 1 pt EACH for: sex itself (incl. implied), each boob, butts, frontal nudity. So that is why Daenerys temple-burning scene gets points for the nudity, even though no sex happened: http://fantasora.com/event/2356

Earlier this season we defined direct contact with reproductive organs as the threshold for explicit sex: http://fantasora.com/event/2401

For implicit sex, we've never defined really defined it, so that's what this discussion is about.

Here's an idea that we could add for Ruleset 4.0: we can further break up scoring and add an additional point for on-screen gettin' it in. So this and other implied scenes would only count 1pt, Osha's would only be 1pt, Sam's "Oh.. oh.. oh my" with Gilly would get 2 pts - 1 for sex and 1 for penetration. -nyan

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2016 Jun 2 Ser Vincent likes this
I agree that there should be a sub-point system of "intercourse". Because if we are now simply assuming that the twins engaged in intercourse off camera, we are opening up the point system to a number of assumed acts of whatever (intercourse related, kill related, wine related). For example, we didn't see Sam drink any wine during the dinning scene. But isn't it safe to say that he probably drank wine prior or during the course of his meal? -Tose

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2016 Jun 3
The criteria for each category is different, and there is some balance in mind when deciding how strict they are. "Cups on the table" would be a close equivalent to "making out in a private room", but as @Tose says we would start giving away way too many wine points (these wine points would also feel "cheap" compared to characters who are doing actual on-screen drinking). For sex, the easier implied criteria has been fine since explicit sex scenes are fairly rare on the show. -nyan

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2016 Jun 3 Laxis likes this

Deaths

+1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Hodor, +1 for Osha, +1 for Alliser Thorne, +1 for Roose Bolton, +1 for Olly, +1 for Doran Martell, +1 for Areo Hotah, +1 for Khal Moro

Special

42:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime: "He has our son! He stole our son! He's torn our family apart." (Special)

©
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