Matchup: The Sound of One Hand Clapping vs Darkstar is Azor Ahai for Ep 10

Braavosi Winter (Public #303)

The Sound of One Hand Clapping (rs.nibbles)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
High Sparrow The leader of the Sparrows, a religious movement within the Faith of the Seven. After being appointed as High Septon by Cersei Lannister, he has lead a sweeping inquiry to root out moral corruption in King's Landing, imprisoning Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister.	#19	21	5	6	0	10	0
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#42	19	10	9	0	0	0
Margaery Tyrell The wife of King Tommen Baratheon and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Her increasing influence over the young king have put at her odds against his mother, Cersei Lannister.	#18	10	0	0	0	10	0
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and recently returns from a mission to Dorne to rescue his daughter/niece, Myrcella Baratheon.	#6	6	0	0	3	0	3
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. Sansa has spent many of her past years as prisoner to the Lannisters and more recently, House Bolton, the new Warden of the North. Currently she is married to Ramsay, the heir of House Bolton, who keeps her imprisoned in Winterfell and tortures her sadistically. During the Bolton battle against Stannis Baratheon's forces, Sansa escapes over the Winterfell walls with the help of Theon Greyjoy, and the two make their way as far from the Boltons as possible. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#7	6	0	3	3	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, bannermen to the Lannisters. He defeated Prince Oberyn Martell in a trial by combat for Tyrion Lannister's role in King Joffrey's death, although he was gravely injured in the fight. He appears to have recovered (in some form) under Grand Maester Qyburn's care, and returns to serve as a member of the Kingsguard.	#31	5	5	0	0	0	0
Trystane Martell Prince Doran Martell's son, and heir to Dorne. He is betrothed to Myrcella Baratheon, and accompanies her back to King's Landing to serve on the Small Council.	#30	1	0	0	0	1	0
Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun A Wildling Giant, who fought in the Battle of Hardhome and was one of the few to escape.	#43	1	0	0	0	1	0
Totals		69	20	18	6	22	3

Darkstar is Azor Ahai (jayjohnsonlive)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#3	627	598	9	6	5	0	9
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He recently accompanied Jaime Lannister on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Dorne to rescue the Princeess Myrcella Baratheon.	#22	14	0	0	9	5	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker. He journeys south to begin his training as a Maester to replace the aging Maester Aemon.	#15	3	0	0	3	0	0	0
Rickon Stark The youngest of the Stark children. He splits off from Bran and travels with Osha to the Last Hearth, seat of House Umber.	#46	2	0	0	0	0	2	0
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own.	#34	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Formerly the Master of Coin, Littlefinger is a conniving political mastermind and serves as Warden of the East after his behind-the-scenes assassination of Lisa Tully.	#10	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Euron Greyjoy An uncle to Theon Greyjoy, Euron is an infamous pirate who has terrorized seas all around the world. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#39	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#27	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		646	598	9	18	10	2	9

Kills

9:05 (+5) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow orders the seven-pointed star to be carved into Loras Tyrell's forehead after his confessions, as a symbol of his sins and newfound faith in the Seven.
Margaery Tyrell: "You mutilated him. You gave me your word." (Major Injury of Named Character)

How is this a kill? -tylermanhart

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2016 Jun 28
Shouldn't Lancel or the Sparrow cutting get the points? -tylermanhart

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2016 Jun 28
That requires some skill -tylermanhart

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2016 Jun 28
These are major injury points, since the disfigurement is permanent. Lancel gets credit for the same (right below this one). Lancel's is the direct action, and the High Sparrow is the commanded one (since Lancel is a prisoner and willingly submits, it's regarded as "unskilled"). -nyan

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2016 Jun 28

13:02 (+10) Qyburn:

After luring Pycelle to his laboratory, Qyburn's Little Birds converge and stab the Grand Maester to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Kill of Named Character)

Pycelle fights back and the little birds overwhelm him. Does this qualify as unskilled? -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28
I was thinking about this too. I think this is one of the few cases of the "executing a prisoner" scenario where the prisoner wasn't completely tied up and helpless, even if he was old, decrepit, and unarmed. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm good with it either way. Sadly, killing Pycelle probably falls beneath the floor of what qualifies as "skill" -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28 jedjackoway likes this
And really, by the time Qyburn lured him to the basement laboratory, the deed was done. No way was Pycelle was making it back up those stairs. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28

17:14 (+60) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. The High Sparrow, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, and Margaery Tyrell perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

115 more comments - see full thread

Part 2: So here's what we'll do.

Camp A will be a "default", as I think it's the general impression most viewers had on watching the scene, if they didn't dive into the nitty-gritty of scoring criteria. All of the leagues currently on Ruleset 3.1 and 4.0, Cersei will keep all the kill points.

For Camp B, all of the "reasonable split" scores will be added (Lem, Ramsay, Jordaario), under new Rulesets called 3.1b and 4.0b. These are the same as the existing Rulesets, just with these kill points added. Consider this a branch of the rules, enabling Leagues to self-determine which interpretation of the scoring criteria they want to apply.

I'll also be developing a new Ruleset 5.0 for the rewatches and S7 - it'll include the removal of commanded kills and the addition of some new political scoring categories to address some of the events that have felt like they weren't properly credited this season. The exact details need to be fine-tuned (the rewatches will be good practice), but ultimately it should address each of this season's controversial scores in a way that's unambiguous and properly rewarding for the magnitude of the characters' actions on the show.

At the end of this discussion, I personally fell into Camp C ("nothing counts"). However my read on that is that most players, in their gut, wanted the scoring to be Camp A or Camp B, but ended up supporting the strictness of Camp C because the other options create some hard-to-reconcile precedents. As a scorekeeper, there's some wariness that both Ruleset 4.0 and 4.0b will now be slightly broken in a "crap, this is going to be a mess for some future S7 events that I can imagine happening" sense.

The 5.0 revision of the rules should be the answer to that concern - we won't have to worry about these controversial 4.0/4.0b scores establishing bad precedents for future scoring, because we'll be using a completely new Ruleset 5.0 by then. In that sense, both of these bends for Camp A and Camp B might be considered do-right scores for the popular player sentiment on who deserves points, in a way that's safely not precedent-setting for the future Ruleset 5.0.

@jedjackoway and @bookworm13457 were the two main commenters that seemed to subscribe to Camp C without a personal leaning towards A or B. Hopefully your concerns were precedent-based like mine, and using A or B will be acceptable for your S6 scores (if not, I can always add in 3.1c/4.0c rulesets as well).

So in summary, this gives all leagues a Ruleset choice that fits with their preferred scoring style, and gives us a path forward to avoid this controversy in the future.

Hopefully this is a happy resolution for everyone playing this season. I'm off to count up some villagers and arrowed corpses. -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 bookworm13457, twalters, righteous like this
Thanks for all of your hard work @Nyan. I do not envy your task of counting the soldiers kill in the Battle of the Bastards. Looking forward to 1-2 more seasons of this! -bookworm13457

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2016 Jul 1 nyan, righteous, twalters, jedjackoway, 2 others like this
The above changes are now live! Check your league settings for the Ruleset 3.1b scoring option. (ended up skipping on 4.0b as it turns out hardly any leagues are on it - of the active commenters, only @Lem Lemoncake used it).

If you happen to be in a Public League and would like switch it do a different ruleset, just let me know directly on FB/email - I'll switch these with preference going to the desired Ruleset of players who have been active in the scoring discussions.

For those curious, here's are those 3.1b events (screenshots of the villagers count and every. freaking. arrow. death.):

Ramsay volleys (36 soldiers and horseys): http://fantasora.com/event/2927
Lem Lemoncloak's kill commands (32 villagers): http://fantasora.com/event/3056
Gatins 1/7th share of 32 villager kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3062
Qyburn 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3067
Cersei 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3066 -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 rajatnigam, bookworm13457, righteous, twalters like this

17:15 (+452) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. Along with the High Sparrow, Small Council, and the Tyrell royal family, 226 other members of the audience perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I finally counted them all. Here's the wide shot! https://imgur.com/ft412aT -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm keeping my arguments in the other thread for simplicity's sake. But why is this not going to Qyburn as well? -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
There's no confirmation that Qyburn did this however we do know that Cersei did. -klov3r

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2016 Jun 28
Just saw the "inside episodes 9&10" on HBO and they stated they used 287 extras for the scene. -alexander.hilton91

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2016 Jun 29 nyan and bookworm13457 like this
Stephanie on the FB page brought this up as well - I think we'll keep the criteria as just the on-screen body count, as it's easily scorable and we won't always have this kind of behind-the-scenes info available. -nyan

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2016 Jun 29

17:30 (+4) Cersei Lannister:

Two King's Landing pedestrians are consumed in the Sept of Baelor wildfire explosion. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:31 (+76) Cersei Lannister:

38 pedestrians in the square outside the Sept of Baelor are overrun as the explosion of wildfire spills outward onto the streets of King's Landing. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:36 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

A King's Landing pedestrian is crushed by a bell jettisoned from the explosion at the Sept of Baelor. Two other pedestrians are also destroyed as the alley becomes engulfed in wildfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

22:00 (+5) Gregor Clegane (The Mountain):

Septa Unella screams in agony as Cersei leaves Gregor Clegane to slowly torture her.
Cersei: "Now? Today? You're not going to die today. You're not going to die for quite a while." (Major Injury of Named Character)

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Littlefinger pledges his support of House Stark to Sansa Stark. "News of this battle will spread quickly through the Seven Kingdoms. I've declared for House Stark for all to hear." (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by xdwxrd (approved!)

8:37 (+3) High Sparrow:

Loras renounces his claims to House Tyrell and swears himself to the High Sparrow and the Faith of the Seven.
Loras Tyrell: "I will abandon the Tyrell name and all that goes with it. I will renounce my lordship and my claims on Highgarden. I will never marry and I will never father children."
High Sparrow: "Brother Loras, I ask you to dedicate your life to the Seven Gods. Will you fight to defend your faith against heretics and apostates?"
Loras Tyrell: "I will." (New Follower/Prisoner)

10:04 (+3) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow reneges on his agreement to release Loras Tyrell after his confessions (presumably unharmed).
Margaery Tyrell: "You mutilated him. You gave me your word."
High Sparrow: "And I have kept my word. Once the Queen Mother's trial is concluded, Brother Loras is free to leave." (Act of Betrayal)

13:02 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn lures Grand Maester Pycelle to his laboratory on false pretenses, and then sends his little birds to stab him to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

17:14 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn's "More. Much more." report to Cersei in S6E8 is revealed to be his discovery of the barrels of wildfire buried beneath King's Landing, as Lancel Lannister discovers a cache set to trigger an explosion during the Trial by Seven at the Sept of Baelor. (Secret Discovery)

17:18 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei destroys the Sept of Baelor in an explosion of wildfire, killing most of the Tyrell royal family and the King's Small Council. (Act of Betrayal)

Eh, really? She all but declared herself accountable to no one when talking to Grandma Tyrell.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
One of the conditions of her release from imprisonment was that she would stand trial later. Though she swore that she would she decided to skip her court date to watch some fireworks. -jimwangerin

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2016 Jun 28
It seemed like Cersei and the Small Council had reached a sort of detente when we last left off, after they agreed on Jaime's plan to march the Tyrell army in. Maybe they didn't trust her 100%, but certainly none of them expected she would outright murder them. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin likes this

18:22 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes Septa Unella prisoner, tying her down to a table as she tortures her. "Confess. It felt good. Beating me, starving me, frightening me, humiliating me. You didn't do it because you cared about my atonement. You did it because it felt good. ... I killed your High Sparrow, and all his little sparrows ... because it felt good to watch them burn. It felt good to imagine their shock and their pain. No thought has ever given me greater joy." (New Follower/Prisoner)

63:11 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn: "I now proclaim Cersei of the House Lannister, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms. Long may she reign." (New Title)

63:33 (+3) Qyburn:

At Cersei Lannister's coronation to the Iron Throne, Qyburn wears the pin to signify his new title as Hand of the Queen. (New Title)

submitted by twalters (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "She doesn't want me, she wants your golden fingers up her twat." (Funny Line)

submitted by axhandle (approved!)

21:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Septa Unella: "This is Ser Gregor Clegane. He's quiet, too. Your Gods have forsaken you. This is your god now."
(Threat)

Is this really a threat, she's kinda just telling her whats up, not threatening something will happen if something else happens. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 alicehanners likes this
Just 'cause it's flowery doesn't make this a good threat.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin and jedjackoway like this
If I was strapped to a board, and Cersei introduced her giant of a bodyguard to me as my "new god", I'd feel pretty threatened. -marcelcdn

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2016 Jun 28 nyan, bookworm13457, wynnch, kayeexau like this
I feel threatened by a lot of things all the time. Doesn't mean they threatened me. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 29

21:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

as she locks Septa Unella in with Gregor Clegane: "Shame. Shame. Shame." (Witty Insult)

23:47 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime, after a Frey serving girl gives him the eye: "You don't even have to do anything, do you?" (Funny Line)

24:07 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime Lannister: "Those two have their eyes on you."
Bronn: "They have their eyes on *you*, cunt."
Jaime: "Not my type."
Bronn: "Not blonde enough?" (Witty Insult)

26:10 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Walder Frey: "Fear is a marvelous thing."
Jaime: "They don't fear the Freys, though. They fear the Lannisters. We gave you the Riverlands to hold the Riverlands. If we have to ride north and take them back for you every time you lose them, why do we need you?" (Witty Insult)

submitted by moonbaseu92 (approved!)

Two times I think, one was indirect (asking if he fought any battles himself) and the second time the sarcastic line about what a great conqueror he is. -Laxis

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2016 Jun 28 moonbaseu92 and golub.jake like this
Added the above line. Here are the two other lines from Jaime, but I thought they were a little tame - if anything Walder Frey had the much better response lines to Jaime.

Jaime: "Have you done much fighting yourself ...back in your day?"
Walder: "The purpose of fighting is defeating your enemies, isn't it? I've defeated mine. Riverrun belonged to House Tully for a thousand years. Now it's mine. What do you call that? Victory."
Jaime: "Yes, you're a great conqueror."
Walder: "Go on, mock me, boy. You think I mind? The Tullys mocked me for years. The Starks mocked me. Where are they now? ... Here we are now, two kingslayers. We know what it's like to have them grovel to our faces and snigger behind our backs. We don't mind, do we?" -nyan

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2016 Jun 29

29:43 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Citadel receptionist: "This is irregular."
Samwell: "Yes, well... I suppose that... life is irregular." (Funny Line)

51:28 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Petyr Baelish: "Every time I'm faced with a decision, I close my eyes and see the same picture. Whenever I consider an action, I ask myself will this action help to make this picture a reality? ... A picture of me on the Iron Throne... and you by my side."
Sansa: "It's a pretty picture." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

17:51 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks as she watches the wildfire explosion engulf the Sept of Baelor from the safety of her chambers in the Red Keep. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

23:54 (+5) Bronn:

Bronn drinks at the Frey-Lannister feast celebrating the retaking of Riverrun. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

17:25 (+10) High Sparrow:

The High Sparrow is engulfed as the wildfire explosion rips through the floor of the Sept of Baelor. (Death)

17:27 (+10) Margaery Tyrell:

Margaery Tyrell is engulfed as the wildfire explosion rips through the Sept of Baelor, destroying the entire section of King's Landing and killing all those inside. (Death)

+1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Trystane Martell, +1 for Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun

Special

10:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours herself a glass of wine while observing the events at the Sept of Baelor from afar. (Special)

18:15 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out her glass of wine over Septa Unella's face as she is bound to a table. "Confess." (Special)

18:32 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

After emptying her glass, Cersei returns to pour out an entire pitcher of wine over Septa Unella's face as she tortures her. (Special)

24:08 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Bronn converses with Jaime about the women at the Frey-Lannister feast.
Jaime: "Not my type."
Bronn: "Not blonde enough?" (Special)

©
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2025 Nathan Yan

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