Matchup: Blood and wine vs Krul runnings for Ep 10

Blood and wine (fingers7393)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#61	19	10	9	0	0	0
Daenerys Targaryen The last royal member of the Targaryen dynasty, Daenerys and her three dragons have carved out a revolutionary empire in the east, liberating several slave cities and acquiring an army of Unsullied warriors. Her recent rule over the slave city of Meereen has been met with strife, however, and she currently finds herself lost with her largest dragon, Drogon, in Dothraki territory.	#4	14	0	6	3	5	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys controls a vast network of spies. After smuggling Tyrion Lannister to Essos, he reveals himself as a supporter of Daenerys Targaryen's claim to the Iron Throne. In Daenerys' absence, he serves with Tyrion Lannister and presides over the rule of Meereen.	#20	3	0	3	0	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker. He journeys south to begin his training as a Maester to replace the aging Maester Aemon.	#13	3	0	0	3	0	0
Olly An orphan boy of the Night's Watch, and a squire for Lord Commander Jon Snow. He is part of the mutiny that betrays Jon and leaves him for dead.	#52	1	0	0	0	0	1
Hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor hodor Hodor. hodor.	#29	1	0	0	0	0	1
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She wields a whip.	#45	0	0	0	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#36	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		41	10	18	6	5	2

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#2	627	598	9	6	5	0	9
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He recently accompanied Jaime Lannister on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Dorne to rescue the Princeess Myrcella Baratheon.	#15	14	0	0	9	5	0	0
Margaery Tyrell The wife of King Tommen Baratheon and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Her increasing influence over the young king have put at her odds against his mother, Cersei Lannister.	#18	10	0	0	0	0	10	0
Rickon Stark The youngest of the Stark children. He splits off from Bran and travels with Osha to the Last Hearth, seat of House Umber.	#50	2	0	0	0	0	2	0
Trystane Martell Prince Doran Martell's son, and heir to Dorne. He is betrothed to Myrcella Baratheon, and accompanies her back to King's Landing to serve on the Small Council.	#34	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Areo Hotah The personal bodyguard for Doran Martell.	#47	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
The Waif A disciple in the House of Black & White. Her real identity is unknown, as she is one of the many identities used by the Faceless Men in their work.	#63	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#31	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		656	598	9	15	10	15	9

After luring Pycelle to his laboratory, Qyburn's Little Birds converge and stab the Grand Maester to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Kill of Named Character)

Pycelle fights back and the little birds overwhelm him. Does this qualify as unskilled? -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28
I was thinking about this too. I think this is one of the few cases of the "executing a prisoner" scenario where the prisoner wasn't completely tied up and helpless, even if he was old, decrepit, and unarmed. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm good with it either way. Sadly, killing Pycelle probably falls beneath the floor of what qualifies as "skill" -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28 jedjackoway likes this
And really, by the time Qyburn lured him to the basement laboratory, the deed was done. No way was Pycelle was making it back up those stairs. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28

17:14 (+60) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. The High Sparrow, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, and Margaery Tyrell perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

115 more comments - see full thread

Part 2: So here's what we'll do.

Camp A will be a "default", as I think it's the general impression most viewers had on watching the scene, if they didn't dive into the nitty-gritty of scoring criteria. All of the leagues currently on Ruleset 3.1 and 4.0, Cersei will keep all the kill points.

For Camp B, all of the "reasonable split" scores will be added (Lem, Ramsay, Jordaario), under new Rulesets called 3.1b and 4.0b. These are the same as the existing Rulesets, just with these kill points added. Consider this a branch of the rules, enabling Leagues to self-determine which interpretation of the scoring criteria they want to apply.

I'll also be developing a new Ruleset 5.0 for the rewatches and S7 - it'll include the removal of commanded kills and the addition of some new political scoring categories to address some of the events that have felt like they weren't properly credited this season. The exact details need to be fine-tuned (the rewatches will be good practice), but ultimately it should address each of this season's controversial scores in a way that's unambiguous and properly rewarding for the magnitude of the characters' actions on the show.

At the end of this discussion, I personally fell into Camp C ("nothing counts"). However my read on that is that most players, in their gut, wanted the scoring to be Camp A or Camp B, but ended up supporting the strictness of Camp C because the other options create some hard-to-reconcile precedents. As a scorekeeper, there's some wariness that both Ruleset 4.0 and 4.0b will now be slightly broken in a "crap, this is going to be a mess for some future S7 events that I can imagine happening" sense.

The 5.0 revision of the rules should be the answer to that concern - we won't have to worry about these controversial 4.0/4.0b scores establishing bad precedents for future scoring, because we'll be using a completely new Ruleset 5.0 by then. In that sense, both of these bends for Camp A and Camp B might be considered do-right scores for the popular player sentiment on who deserves points, in a way that's safely not precedent-setting for the future Ruleset 5.0.

@jedjackoway and @bookworm13457 were the two main commenters that seemed to subscribe to Camp C without a personal leaning towards A or B. Hopefully your concerns were precedent-based like mine, and using A or B will be acceptable for your S6 scores (if not, I can always add in 3.1c/4.0c rulesets as well).

So in summary, this gives all leagues a Ruleset choice that fits with their preferred scoring style, and gives us a path forward to avoid this controversy in the future.

Hopefully this is a happy resolution for everyone playing this season. I'm off to count up some villagers and arrowed corpses. -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 bookworm13457, twalters, righteous like this
Thanks for all of your hard work @Nyan. I do not envy your task of counting the soldiers kill in the Battle of the Bastards. Looking forward to 1-2 more seasons of this! -bookworm13457

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2016 Jul 1 nyan, righteous, twalters, jedjackoway, 2 others like this
The above changes are now live! Check your league settings for the Ruleset 3.1b scoring option. (ended up skipping on 4.0b as it turns out hardly any leagues are on it - of the active commenters, only @Lem Lemoncake used it).

If you happen to be in a Public League and would like switch it do a different ruleset, just let me know directly on FB/email - I'll switch these with preference going to the desired Ruleset of players who have been active in the scoring discussions.

For those curious, here's are those 3.1b events (screenshots of the villagers count and every. freaking. arrow. death.):

Ramsay volleys (36 soldiers and horseys): http://fantasora.com/event/2927
Lem Lemoncloak's kill commands (32 villagers): http://fantasora.com/event/3056
Gatins 1/7th share of 32 villager kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3062
Qyburn 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3067
Cersei 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3066 -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 rajatnigam, bookworm13457, righteous, twalters like this

17:15 (+452) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. Along with the High Sparrow, Small Council, and the Tyrell royal family, 226 other members of the audience perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I finally counted them all. Here's the wide shot! https://imgur.com/ft412aT -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm keeping my arguments in the other thread for simplicity's sake. But why is this not going to Qyburn as well? -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
There's no confirmation that Qyburn did this however we do know that Cersei did. -klov3r

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2016 Jun 28
Just saw the "inside episodes 9&10" on HBO and they stated they used 287 extras for the scene. -alexander.hilton91

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2016 Jun 29 nyan and bookworm13457 like this
Stephanie on the FB page brought this up as well - I think we'll keep the criteria as just the on-screen body count, as it's easily scorable and we won't always have this kind of behind-the-scenes info available. -nyan

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2016 Jun 29

17:30 (+4) Cersei Lannister:

Two King's Landing pedestrians are consumed in the Sept of Baelor wildfire explosion. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:31 (+76) Cersei Lannister:

38 pedestrians in the square outside the Sept of Baelor are overrun as the explosion of wildfire spills outward onto the streets of King's Landing. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:36 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

A King's Landing pedestrian is crushed by a bell jettisoned from the explosion at the Sept of Baelor. Two other pedestrians are also destroyed as the alley becomes engulfed in wildfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

13:02 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn lures Grand Maester Pycelle to his laboratory on false pretenses, and then sends his little birds to stab him to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

17:14 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn's "More. Much more." report to Cersei in S6E8 is revealed to be his discovery of the barrels of wildfire buried beneath King's Landing, as Lancel Lannister discovers a cache set to trigger an explosion during the Trial by Seven at the Sept of Baelor. (Secret Discovery)

17:18 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei destroys the Sept of Baelor in an explosion of wildfire, killing most of the Tyrell royal family and the King's Small Council. (Act of Betrayal)

Eh, really? She all but declared herself accountable to no one when talking to Grandma Tyrell.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
One of the conditions of her release from imprisonment was that she would stand trial later. Though she swore that she would she decided to skip her court date to watch some fireworks. -jimwangerin

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2016 Jun 28
It seemed like Cersei and the Small Council had reached a sort of detente when we last left off, after they agreed on Jaime's plan to march the Tyrell army in. Maybe they didn't trust her 100%, but certainly none of them expected she would outright murder them. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin likes this

18:22 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes Septa Unella prisoner, tying her down to a table as she tortures her. "Confess. It felt good. Beating me, starving me, frightening me, humiliating me. You didn't do it because you cared about my atonement. You did it because it felt good. ... I killed your High Sparrow, and all his little sparrows ... because it felt good to watch them burn. It felt good to imagine their shock and their pain. No thought has ever given me greater joy." (New Follower/Prisoner)

43:11 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys convinces Daario to accept his assignment to stay behind in Meereen as its ruler.
Daario: "You'll get that throne you want so badly, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness. I pity the lords of Westeros. They have no idea what's coming for them." (Convincing Argument)

46:12 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

As they begin plans to sail to Westeros, Tyrion Lannister professes his belief in Daenerys and pledges his services to her.

Tyrion Lannister: "For what it's worth, I've been a cynic for as long as I can remember. Everyone's always asking me to believe in things - family, gods, kings, myself. It was often tempting until I saw where belief got people. So I said no, thank you to belief. And yet here I am. I believe in you. It's embarrassing, really. I'd swear you my sword, but I don't actually own a sword."
Daenerys: "It's your counsel I need."
Tyrion: "It's yours. Now and always." (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by mg.flanigan11 (approved!)

I don't know about this, because he was already a follower, starting last season. This is like saying Davos is officially following Jon Snow, when he's been following him for seasons -skywalkerdude

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2016 Jun 27 righteous and jedjackoway like this
Agreed. Tyrion definitely gets points for a new title, but I don't think Daenerys should get points because Tyrion is not a new follower. -nick.embrey

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2016 Jun 27
But he made a vow this episode to her. -mg.flanigan11

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2016 Jun 27 nyan likes this
I guess it depends on when a follower is added? Not sure of the ruling if, say, a follower left then came back like maybe Jorah? Would it count twice? Also, if the follower is only counted once ever, I suppose a submission could be made at this point that Daenerys should gain the sand snakes and Olenna since Varys appears at the end in their discussion, surely this is meant to be her landing zone - Dorne. -mg.flanigan11

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2016 Jun 27
I feel like it should come down to whether or not Tyrion has been scored as Dany's follower yet, either this season or last. -jedjackoway

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin likes this
On the parallel to Davos, I've actually added his Jon Snow follower points here: http://fantasora.com/event/3026. It's a very similar situation in that the characters clearly became a follower at some point, but in a very gradual process. I'm not sure how to score these aside from waiting for a semi-official kind of moment.

Looking through, I actually can't find a Daenerys score for Tyrion as a follower in S5. It's possible this was an oversight, but unless someone can pinpoint a more official declaration of allegiance for Tyrion before this, this seems like the moment for him. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28 xdwxrd, alicehanners, mg.flanigan11, alexanderdropkin, 2 others like this

63:11 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn: "I now proclaim Cersei of the House Lannister, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms. Long may she reign." (New Title)

63:33 (+3) Qyburn:

At Cersei Lannister's coronation to the Iron Throne, Qyburn wears the pin to signify his new title as Hand of the Queen. (New Title)

submitted by twalters (approved!)

66:01 (+3) Varys:

Varys returns from his diplomatic mission to Dorne, apparently successful at recruiting House Tyrell and the Sand Snakes to support Daenerys and lend her use of their navies. (Convincing Argument)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "She doesn't want me, she wants your golden fingers up her twat." (Funny Line)

submitted by axhandle (approved!)

21:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Septa Unella: "This is Ser Gregor Clegane. He's quiet, too. Your Gods have forsaken you. This is your god now."
(Threat)

Is this really a threat, she's kinda just telling her whats up, not threatening something will happen if something else happens. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 alicehanners likes this
Just 'cause it's flowery doesn't make this a good threat.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin and jedjackoway like this
If I was strapped to a board, and Cersei introduced her giant of a bodyguard to me as my "new god", I'd feel pretty threatened. -marcelcdn

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2016 Jun 28 nyan, bookworm13457, wynnch, kayeexau like this
I feel threatened by a lot of things all the time. Doesn't mean they threatened me. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 29

21:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

as she locks Septa Unella in with Gregor Clegane: "Shame. Shame. Shame." (Witty Insult)

23:47 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime, after a Frey serving girl gives him the eye: "You don't even have to do anything, do you?" (Funny Line)

24:07 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime Lannister: "Those two have their eyes on you."
Bronn: "They have their eyes on *you*, cunt."
Jaime: "Not my type."
Bronn: "Not blonde enough?" (Witty Insult)

29:43 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Citadel receptionist: "This is irregular."
Samwell: "Yes, well... I suppose that... life is irregular." (Funny Line)

45:19 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys: "Do you know what frightens me? I said farewell to a man who loves me. A man I thought I cared for. And I felt nothing. Just impatient to get on with it."
Tyrion: "He wasn't the first to love you and he won't be the last."
Daenerys: "Well, you have completely failed to console me." (Funny Line)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

17:51 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks as she watches the wildfire explosion engulf the Sept of Baelor from the safety of her chambers in the Red Keep. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

23:54 (+5) Bronn:

Bronn drinks at the Frey-Lannister feast celebrating the retaking of Riverrun. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

40:23 (+5) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys drinks a glass of wine as Daario enters her chambers. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

17:27 (+10) Margaery Tyrell:

Margaery Tyrell is engulfed as the wildfire explosion rips through the Sept of Baelor, destroying the entire section of King's Landing and killing all those inside. (Death)

+1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Rickon Stark, +1 for Hodor, +1 for Olly, +1 for Trystane Martell, +1 for Areo Hotah, +1 for The Waif

Special

10:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours herself a glass of wine while observing the events at the Sept of Baelor from afar. (Special)

18:15 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out her glass of wine over Septa Unella's face as she is bound to a table. "Confess." (Special)

18:32 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

After emptying her glass, Cersei returns to pour out an entire pitcher of wine over Septa Unella's face as she tortures her. (Special)

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2025 Nathan Yan

Release 1.8.7 | Legalese

Matchup: Blood and wine vs Krul runnings for Ep 10

Hodor Incest (Public #317)

Blood and wine (fingers7393)

Krul runnings (benfletcher26)