Matchup: Toywin Lannister vs You Know Nothing Jon (Targaryen) Snow for Ep 2

Toywin Lannister (daniel.toy)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who broke their contract and now sides with Daenerys.	#34	11	11	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen.	#2	9	0	3	3	3
Leaf A member of the Children of the Forest. She leads Bran and his companions to cave of the Three-eyed Raven.	#50	0	0	0	0	0
Osha A wildling woman who serves the Starks. She splits off from Bran's group and travels with Rickon.	#63	0	0	0	0	0
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, she is a close advisor to Stannis.	#15	0	0	0	0	0
Grand Maester Pycelle The Grand Maester of the Seven Kingdoms. Pycelle is highly educated and serves as an advisor to the King.	#47	0	0	0	0	0
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys' most trusted advisors, but was banished when his time serving as a spy for Robert Baratheon was revealed to her.	#18	0	0	0	0	0
Tommen Baratheon The new King of the Seven Kingdoms.	#31	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		20	11	3	3	3

You Know Nothing Jon (Targaryen) Snow (tjwillauer)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths
Jon Snow The bastard son of Ned Stark, and a member of the Night's Watch. He helped lead the defense of Castle Black against the Wildling siege.	#3	19	9	0	10	0
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes.	#30	6	0	6	0	0
Barristan Selmy The former Lord Commander of the Kingsguard of Robert and Joffrey Baratheon. After being dismissed by King Joffrey, he joins Daenerys to serve as her advisor and Queensguard.	#35	3	3	0	0	0
Mance Rayder A former member of the Night's Watch, Mance leads a united Wildling army as the King Beyond the Wall. Following the Battle at Castle Black however, his forces were defeated and he was captured by Stannis Baratheon.	#19	1	0	0	0	1
Rickon Stark The youngest of the Stark children. He splits off from Bran and travels with Osha to the Last Hearth, seat of House Umber.	#62	0	0	0	0	0
Hizdahr zo Loraq A son of one of the Meereenese slave masters - he appears in Daenerys' court to ask for his fathers body, after Daenerys crucifies all of the slavers in Meereen.	#51	0	0	0	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is currently a captive of Ramsay Bolton.	#14	0	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett A member of the Night's Watch. Edd commanded some of the forces on the Wall in the Battle at Castle Black.	#46	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		29	12	6	10	1

Kills

23:36 (+1) Daario Naharis :

Daario stabs a member of the Sons of the Harpy, who was concealed behind the wall of a hideout. (Major Injury of Unnamed Character)

51:07 (+10) Daario Naharis :

Daario beheads Mossador with his arakh in a public execution. Mossador was sentenced to death on Daenerys' orders, after he murdered the captive Son of the Harpy. (Kill of Named Character)

7 more comments - see full thread

If you have a low scoring team week in and week out, I don't think you should be able to move up in the rankings, right? You should have to have players that score points to move up. Roto scoring will keep it closer than raw scoring because the total points you can get for each category is limited by how many teams are in your league, but you still have to have points to move up in the standings. You're best bet might be head-to-head scoring if you want something to matter from week to week, but that also has its limitations because some characters can disappear for several episodes (i.e. Roose, Theon, and Ramsay so far) -wpearsal

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2015 Apr 21 moonbaseu92 and nyan like this
wpearsal, it wouldn't be about moving up in the rankings if you have a low-scoring team. It would mean moving up in the rankings--just a BIT--if your team is the ONLY one scoring. Imagine if your team sucks through episodes 1-5 and then in episode 6, you score 5x what anyone else does in every category. Yet it barely makes a dent in raw stats and doesn't affect you at all in roto. I'm not saying you should win, but "winning" an episode should matter. -alicehanners

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2015 Apr 23
Clarifying a bit on Roto scoring - Roto Points *always* represent the current state for the season so far, NOT the current episode. So huge performances *will* be able to dramatically shift the standings, similar to normal Direct Points (but unlike the H2H leagues).

So alicehanners in your scenario:
TeamsA/B/C (3 teams) all score 3-5 kills per episode, from Episodes 1-8.
TeamD scores 1 kill per episode from E1-8, and is last place in the category so far.

At the end of E8, TeamA/B/C will have 4, 3, and 2 Roto pts for Kills. TeamD will have 1 Roto pt.

Then TeamD has a HUGE Episode 9 where they score 100+ Kills, enough to put them in 1st place overall for the season. They will jump 3 spots in the category ranking, and at the end of E9 TeamD has 4 Roto pts for Kills, A/B/C have 3, 2, and 1 pts.

Say E10 is a quiet episode and everyone has 1-2 kills, not enough to change the standings. In that case, TeamD remains in the lead for Kills, and ends the season with 4 Roto pts and wins the league (if Kills are the only category).

So for "it barely makes a dent in raw stats and doesn't affect you at all in roto", I think the opposite is actually true. A big episode can mean a huge standings shift in Roto and Normal Direct-scoring leagues. H2H is where it would be impossible to make a big standings shift (a win is still just 1 win, regardless of whether you win 18-15 or 88-15). -nyan

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2015 Apr 23 moonbaseu92 likes this

Political Wins

25:41 (+3) Barristan Selmy:

Barristan convinces Daenerys to give the Son of the Harpy a fair trial instead of executing him immediately. "Your Grace... I served in [Mad King Aerys'] Kingsguard. I was at his side from the first. Your enemies did not lie." (Politics - uncategorized)

31:17 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei stacks the Small Council in her favor, appointing the loyal Mace Tyrell as Master of Coin and Qyburn as Master of Whisperers, over the protests of Grand Maester Pycelle and Kevan Lannister.
Grand Maester Pycelle: "Your Grace... him? This- this man (Qyburn)? This... embarrassment to the Citadel? ... what qualifications can he possibly have for this post?"
Cersei: "The qualification of loyalty, Grand Maester. That's far more than the eunuch ever had." (Politics - uncategorized)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

43:38 (+3) Jon Snow:

By the margin of a single vote, Jon Snow is reluctantly elected as the 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. (Politics - uncategorized)

Should Jon get point from all the new "Followers" he now has as Lord Commander, at least for Named Night's Watch men who are "friendly" (not Slynt, maybe Thorne)? -moonbaseu92

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2015 Apr 21 coconnor723 likes this
I don't think people get points for followers. Else Dany would have billions of points, Stannis a buttload, Tommen a ton, Doran a bunch, etc. -alicehanners

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2015 Apr 24
Has there been a vote on this? I think the two explicit followers rule should count! -coconnor723

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2015 Apr 27

43:41 (+6) Jon Snow:

Samwell Tarly and Maester Aemon cast their votes for Jon Snow in the Night's Watch election. Jon edges past Ser Alliser Thorne in the election and becomes their Lord Commander. (Politics - uncategorized)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Brought up by @moonbaseu92: "Should Jon get point from all the new "Followers" he now has as Lord Commander, at least for Named Night's Watch men who are "friendly" (not Slynt, maybe Thorne)?" -nyan

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2015 Apr 23
It's an excellent point, but a bit tricky to figure out where to limit the scope. I'd like to figure out the line and record this as a new precedent in the Rulebook.

The problem with awarding automatic followers when someone gains a new title is that it potentially has a limitless range. For example, when Tommen becomes King, did that automatically make *every* Lannister/Tyrell character in the Seven Kingdoms his follower?

I think a reasonable rule would be to require an explicit pledge or act of loyalty by the follower. So in Joffrey's case, he'd get the standard point just for receiving the title of King, but no automatic points for any of the hundreds of named subjects. However if a scene shows a character coming to King's Landing to pledge a *new* oath of fealty to King Joffrey (like he requested of Robb), that'd count as a follower.

Applied to this election, I think normally there'd be no new followers for Jon, even from those who enthusiastically support him like Samwell (same as how Tommen doesn't automatically get every Lannister/Tyrell as a follower). *However*, the Night's Watch is unique in that they carry out a democratic process, giving every member the agency to choose who they want to declare (vote) for. In this case, the votes casted are an explicit act for "I will follow Jon Snow if he wins the election", so the votes by Samwell and Maester Aemon are counted as new followers.

What does everyone else think of establishing this as the scoring rule for followers? -nyan

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2015 Apr 23
Sounds good to me. The more points scored the better and it helps improve some characters that might not score as much. As you said, it just needs to be more black and white for the scorekeepers. -wpearsal

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2015 Apr 23

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

16:01 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime: "I'm going to make this better.
Cersei: "You've never made anything better." (Witty Insult)

submitted by kas113 (approved!)

20:22 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

to Areo Hotah: "Remove yourself from my path or I'll take that long axe and I'll shove it up your..." (Threat)

21:50 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

Doran: "...but we do not mutilate little girls for vengeance. Not here. Not while I rule."
Ellaria: "And how long will that be?" (Threat)

Areo Hotah's testing the blade with his finger doesn't count as a threat towards Ellaria because he didn't do it for her to see? -Lem Lemoncake

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2015 Apr 21 Reaper likes this
Generally only threatening lines are scored, not actions. Else every fighting scene with a threatening glare would get points as well. -nyan

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2015 Apr 23 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Good point :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2015 Apr 23

Glasses of Wine Consumed

39:23 (+5) Jon Snow:

Jon drinks in the hall at Castle Black, as the election for Lord Commander of the Night's Watch begins. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

42:44 (+5) Jon Snow:

Jon drinks another cup while members of the Night's Watch cast their votes for Lord Commander. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

+1 for Mance Rayder

Special

15:28 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime talks to Cersei about Myrcella. "The world can't know she's our daughter." (Special)

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