Matchup: Jumping the Stark vs Winter is Coming for Ep 6

Jumping the Stark (christopher.triolo)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#44	29	24	0	0	0	5
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#8	12	0	9	3	0	0
Tyrion Lannister Quick to wit and even quicker to the drink, Tyrion is the youngest of three Lannister children. After being exiled by his sister Cersei, he has joined with Daenerys Targaryen, serving as her Hand of the Queen and most trusted adviser.	#5	8	0	0	3	5	0
Qyburn The new Master of Whispers in King's Landing, loyally serving Queen Cersei Lannister. A disgraced former Maester, he engages in many scientific experiments in his dungeon lab	#20	0	0	0	0	0	0
Salladhor Saan A Pirate Lord from the Lys, a free city of Essos. He is an old friend of Ser Davos Seaworth and fought for Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.	#68	0	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#32	0	0	0	0	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#29	0	0	0	0	0	0
Qhono A Dothraki bloodrider, he swears allegiance to Daenerys after she burns all of the other Khals alive in Dosh Khaleen.	#65	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#17	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#56	0	0	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#41	0	0	0	0	0	0
Melessa Tarly Samwell Tarly's mother.	#53	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		49	24	9	6	5	5

Winter is Coming (eddy771)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#2	623	604	9	3	7
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#11	16	10	6	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and has sailed to Oldtown with Samwell as he begins his Maester's training.	#38	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She's into whips.	#35	0	0	0	0	0
Aeron Greyjoy An uncle of Theon Greyjoy, who serves as a priest to the Drowned God.	#50	0	0	0	0	0
Hot Pie An orphan from King's Landing. He works at the Inn at the Crossroads as a baker.	#71	0	0	0	0	0
Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.	#47	0	0	0	0	0
Frances (Qyburn's dwarf underling) A member of Varys' old spy network in King's Landing, now working for Qyburn.	#62	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#26	0	0	0	0	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#14	0	0	0	0	0
Yezzan zo Qaggaz (slave trader) A slave trader from Yunkai. He briefly owns Jorah Mormont, who he brings to the fighting pits of Meereen, and is present during the slavers' attack on Meereen. He is the only slave master spared by Daenerys, who sends him to Astapor with a message for those who would oppose the Mother of Dragons.	#59	0	0	0	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#23	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		639	614	15	3	7

Kills

51:38 (+604) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and her three dragons ride in to save the day for Jon Snow, Jorah, Tormund, the Hound, and Beric, laying waste to a massive number of wights with their dragonfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

7 more comments - see full thread

There is already a 100 point cap for raw scoring, and for the perspective of a head to head match, dany totaly deserve to win her match for a specific episode where she uses her dragons so 200 or 600 points doesn't make a difference, that's why she is ranked #1 for the draft. Go check the post about dany in episode 4 for more info. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech likes this
I agree with tommy James. There is not point limit on raw scoring. Danerys got 604 points for the dang dragons. The leader of our league is 800+ points ahead of 2nd -playabills

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2017 Aug 24
For this season it'll stay where it is, out of consistency/fairness. But as we approach the endgame of the show, where we may be getting a dragon-roasting every episode or in the majority of episodes, it does become more of a balance issue.

Some of it may take care of itself, as the dragons are now split off to competing allegiances (Viserion for the Night King, and other characters can steal the dragon points if they become a rider). But at most we still end up with 3 characters dominating the field. The dragons themselves could also be made individually draftable.

For Roto this problem takes care of itself - you can spend your likely first round pick on a dragon character, who might instantly put you top 3 in the Kills category, but will give you nothing else but that stat (a common tradeoff, and typically an inefficient one). For the other leagues, perhaps we may consider some alternative drafting options that will make them cost a fairer value (allow draft pick trading, or implement auction/salary cap leagues). Or perhaps a league may selectively ban certain characters from the draft list, or choose their own league-specific nerfs (e.g. all points from this OP character list will be halved or even 1/10th'd). Part of the problem is that people have an assessment that the dragons are somewhere between mildly to extremely OP, and it's hard to come up with a way to compensate for that without pinning the value, so for the site I think everyone will be more satisfied if the leagues/players have the options to set that nerfing value for themselves.

Doing the point cap thing, or coming up with an arbitrary fractional kill is my least preferred option, mostly from a stat-keeping purity standpoint. -nyan

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, alex.pi, Lem Lemoncake, hkeseyan like this

53:35 (+10) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King launches a perfect javelin toss, striking Viserion right in the neck and bringing him crashing straight down into the icy lake. (Kill of Named Character)

11 more comments - see full thread

I think everyone is missing the point here about the dragon kill. This is fantasy Game of Thrones, we are never going to accurately score each character for how much impact they truly have on the show. 1) because this is fantasy and we have to have rigid rules to score points for events instead of retroactively assigning point values to things and 2) because impact is subjective and we will never fully agree on who has more impact

The thing everyone who is complaining about points that characters deserve for certain events is sorely missing is that in fantasy we need to settle on points awarded for certain events and then the players play the game around that. Everyone knew ahead of time that killing a dragon would be 10 points. Everyone knew that drinking wine is 5 points and full frontal nudity is 20. Everyone knew that killing 5 random characters is the same as killing 1 named character no matter how tough or important they are. Playing fantasy Game of Thrones is a skill in and of itself, and whoever pays the most attention to those specific rules should be rewarded. If you drafted the Night King because you thought he is ultimately more powerful than someone like Jaime who has one hand, you made a terrible mistake by overlooking the fact that Jaime can drink, have sex, say good lines, rack up specials, have more screen time, while the Night King rarely does killing with his own hands, doesn't talk, have sex, or drink.

It is Nathan's job as the runner of this site to ensure that 1) the game is competitive and fair within its intended scope and 2) points are being counted for what they were implied to be counted for when people drafted their characters. You can say killing a dragon is more of a power than Sam reading 4 books but the fact remains that drafting the Night King with the hopes that a dragon kill would win your season was a bad fantasy move. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, emilien.raggi, emilyjmahar, WampaLord, 2 others like this
Where our discussions about points should happen is in events where there is ambiguity or a dispute in whether or not something satisfies a condition for awarding points on an event. No one is denying a dragon was killed. You could've looked back and did your research and seen that killing giants and white walkers were the same number of points. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 24 jedjackoway, jake.kmiech, emilien.raggi like this
What hkeseyan said <3 and I'd like to add that exactely this, for me personally at least, is what brings the fun into this: the seeming arbitrariness. That Doran Martell can have his one episode in which he does a few steps on his own to prove a point then die and score hugely for that single episode but never before or after. This is also one of the reasons why I now prefer H2H to Roto. I have Dany in my team and obviously have the by far highest overall scoring. Still, I don't lead my H2H league, because I lost the pre-dragonsofmassdestruction-episodes :> -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 25

57:29 (+14) Benjen Stark:

Benjen knocks out 5 wights with his flaming flail and his horse runs over 2 more while he rides in to the ice lake battlefield to rescue Jon Snow. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

57:36 (+6) Benjen Stark:

After emerging from the cloud of smoke, 3 wights are knocked down at the end of Benjen's run as he approaches Jon Snow across the icy shore. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Benjen is swinging his flail preceding this, but it's all in a hazy cloud of smoke/mist and you can't make out any wights or bodies getting killed until the end. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23
What about the "clunk" sound you hear when he hits them in the head? -jimmy.tague

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2017 Aug 23 nyan, jake.kmiech, Lem Lemoncake like this
That could be good enough evidence, 1 kill per unseen "clunk" -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 bookworm13457 and power.suit like this
This may be my favorite ruling of the season -bookworm13457

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2017 Aug 23 jake.kmiech likes this

58:22 (+4) Benjen Stark:

A horseless Benjen manages to knock out two more wights with his flaming flail before succumbing to the wight horde. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

23:27 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rejects Tyrion's proposal that she name an heir.

Tyrion Lannister: "But there are other ways of choosing a successor. The Night's Watch has one method. The Ironborn, for all their many flaws, have another-"
Daenerys: "We will discuss the succession after I wear the crown." (Executive Decision)

44:01 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa commands Brienne of Tarth to journey south to King's Landing for the meeting convened to present the White Walker threat, leaving Sansa alone in Winterfell despite her protests.

Brienne: I sworn an oath to protect you and your sister. If I abandon you-"
Sansa: "The trip to King's Landing is long, Lady Brienne, and you won't be travelling on summer roads. The sooner you leave, the better your chances of making it on time." (Executive Decision)

45:10 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys ignores Tyrion's pleas, flying off with her three dragons to rescue Jon Snow and his expedition to capture a wight. "I'm not doing nothing again." (Executive Decision)

55:20 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King's Army of the Dead overwhelm Jon Snow's party, forcing them to evacuate by dragon and taking down one of Daenerys Targaryen's dragons, Viserion, in the process. (Victorious Battle)

61:27 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa goes snooping into Arya's room in an attempt to recover the copy of the raven letter. (Act of Betrayal)

61:57 (+3) Sansa Stark:

While snooping through her room, Sansa discover's Arya's stash of faces. (Secret Discovery)

67:27 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After she rescues Jon Snow's expedition from the Army of the Dead and pledges to fight the war, Jon swallows his pride and agrees to bend the knee.

"Alright, not Dany. How about 'My Queen'? I'd bend the knee, but..." (New Follower/Prisoner)

kiss already ffs -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 23 nyan likes this
? they're both getting a new negative special for warm barfy moments ?_? -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 Lem Lemoncake and hkeseyan like this
Haha, I'd rather they marry already. Give them negative special points for each time we're waiting for one of them to make the first move and it's not happening.
When Jon said "my queen", I first thought it was meant as a proposal, same as with the cavepainting scene - but they keep disappointing me ;( -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 23

70:13 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

After having Viseron's body salvaged from the icy lake, the Night King reanimates the dragon as a wight. (New Follower/Prisoner)

Yeaah Dany will lose Viserion and the Night King will gain a Special for all of wight-Viserion's actions. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 bookworm13457, jedjackoway, ehbud25, vjdev2015, 3 others like this
Does this include the dead body reappearing bonus? -jake.kmiech

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2017 Aug 23
Hmmmm good question. My feeling is that wight-Viserion will not count as a "dead body appearance", it potentially disrupts that category too much? -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 jake.kmiech and emilien.raggi like this
In the appearance at the end of the episode, Viserion was dead so it could be an appearance.... now it is awake/undead, so from now on no dead body appearances? Just like Jon, Beric, Mountain, Benjen -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 23 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, vjdev2015, nyan, 2 others like this
Makes sense to me. The dead points go to Dany, then, as it wasn't under the Night King's spell yet. If it dies again, the points should go to the Night King, though -jake.kmiech

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2017 Aug 23 vjdev2015, emilien.raggi, nyan, kimbo like this
Yeah, I agree with hkeseyan and jake.kmiech -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 23

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

19:43 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Daenerys: "Jon Snow is not in love with me."
Tyrion: "Oh, my mistake. I suppose he stares at you longingly because he's hopeful for a successful military alliance." (Funny Line)

23:47 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Tyrion Lannister: "I'm trying to serve you by planning for the long term."
Daenerys: "Perhaps if you'd planned for the short term, we wouldn't have lost Dorne and Highgarden." (Witty Insult)

29:15 (+3) Sansa Stark:

on the Northern lords: "Yes, they turned their backs on Jon when it was time to retake Winterfell, and then they named him their King, and now they're ready to turn their backs on him again. How far would you trust men like that? They're all bloody wind vanes." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

20:15 (+5) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion drinks while talking with Daenerys in Dragonstone. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

54:12 (+5) Daenerys Targaryen:

Viserion slumps into the icy depths of the lake after having been fatally struck by an ice javelin from the Night King. (Death)

58:28 (+5) Benjen Stark:

Uncle "there's no time" Benjen succumbs to the horde of wights a full 52 seconds after sending Jon away with his horse. (Death)

69:10 (+2) Daenerys Targaryen:

Viseron's body is dragged back out from under the ice lake by a chain gang of wights. (Dead Body Appearance)

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