Matchup: Wine Time with Cersei vs Team Stark for Ep 3

Wine Time with Cersei (melodyaross)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Euron Greyjoy The new King of the Iron Islands, after killing his brother Balon Greyjoy. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#10	30	9	12	9
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#3	15	3	6	6
Archmaester Ebrose Archmaester at the Citadel in Oldtown, where new Maesters are trained.	#46	12	0	0	12
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#27	6	6	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#39	3	3	0	0
Tormund Giantsbane Formerly a lieutenant of Mance Rayder, the King beyond the Wall, Tormund is now the de facto leader of the Wildlings and a reasoned voice in rallying them behind the cause of Jon Snow.	#15	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#34	0	0	0	0
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own. After her uncle Euron Greyjoy seizes control of the Iron Islands, she flees with Theon and her loyal troops to ally with Daenerys Targaryen, whose dragons and armies sail west to retake Westeros.	#22	0	0	0	0
Totals		66	21	18	27

Team Stark (nathanjsmith1991)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Wine	Sex	Special
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#4	52	0	21	5	20	6
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#28	30	24	6	0	0	0
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#40	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#16	0	0	0	0	0	0
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment and subsequent infection with the fatal greyscale disease. As Daenerys leaves for Westeros, he wanders Essos in search of a cure.	#21	0	0	0	0	0	0
Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.	#45	0	0	0	0	0	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#9	0	0	0	0	0	0
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#33	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		82	24	27	5	20	6

Kills

53:50 (+2) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm slits the throat of a Lannister guard, after sneaking past the walls of Casterly Rock via the sewer tunnels. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

It is a little difficult to differentiate Grey Worm from the rest of the Unsullied, but he has a badge with three dragons on the clavicle of his armor which seems to be unique to him, which was used to identify him in the battle scenes: http://imgur.com/a/BGogM

This first kill is the only ambiguous one as the clavicle piece is not visible, but it seems to credibly be him based on the parts of face that are visible. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
The shield kills that are being counting aren't confirmed kills. Minor injuries at best. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
which is 8 of his point this episode. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
In the rulebook for Kills.IV we have a rule for: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes."

It's just a lot easier to count, else there are a lot of nitpicky debates that some strike is on a non-fatal region, or the shield bash didn't look strong enough, etc. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

54:22 (+8) Grey Worm :

Leading the Unsullied, Grey Worm stabs two Lannister soldiers while charging the stairs, and smashes two more with his shield. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:29 (+14) Grey Worm :

At the top of the stairs, Grey Worm kills 7 Lannister soldiers, throwing his spear to impale the last one against a door. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After seizing Highgarden, the defeated Olenna Tyrell sits in her prisoner as a prisoner of Jaime Lannister. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

With his succesful destruction of Yara Greyjoy's fleet and the "gift" of the captured Ellaria and Tyene Sand, Euron wins over Cersei and convinces her to ally with his Ironborn and accept his marriage proposal. (Convincing Argument)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Original submission by @hkeseyan:

Euron has convinced Cersei to accept his hand in marriage. Cersei: ""You shall have what your heart desires"

Cersei has apparently accepted Euron's proposal for his hand in marriage from back in episode 1. Scoring for this event was delayed until we see confirmation that Cersei agrees to the deal, which we receive in this episode. Cersei has given Euron her word that he will receive his reward, in front of Jaime Lannister and the court, as we see Jaime uncomfortably react to her words. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2
I think it's fine that Cersei still says, "...after the war is won". Like Robert's order to send assassins for Daenerys, it's fine if the order is not carried out to completion, just that the course of action was decided upon. In addition, he does still convince Cersei to ally with the Ironborn and name him head of the Royal Navy. Although that's kind of trivial because it's basically all Ironborn ships at this point. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

23:28 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Cersei accepts Euron Greyjoy's proposal of an alliance, appointing him as the head of the navy of the Seven Kindgoms. (New Title)

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

51:27 (+3) Missandei:

Missandei convinces Daenerys against flying out herself to hunt down Euron Greyjoy's Iron Fleet.

Tyrion: "You'd be flying around the open seas alone for who knows how long."
Daenerys: "I wouldn't be alone. I would have Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal. What can anyone do to them?"
Missandei: "They can still do something to you. It only takes one arrow." (Convincing Argument)

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Victorious Battle)

Greywoem may have won the battle, but isn't it Danaerys who actually wins the castle? -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Did he win the castle? Or did Euron trap him in the castle? -Th3 JaBBeRWoCK

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2017 Aug 1
I think we'll count it even as a temporary or pyrrhic victory. As for Dany, in general it feels like this is a point for the general who leads the battle, but it can transfer to Daenerys once she gets her boots on the ground, or if we get a line from Grey Worm like "the castle is yours, your Grace." -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
-Elon

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2017 Aug 2
Battle of the Bastards did result in Battle Victory points for Ramsay (http://fantasora.com/event/2892). In the rulebook it states that large battles can be divided up and have multiple victory points awarded for each segment. Think of it like an Assault map for a game like Battlefield or TF2, there are intermediate points for each objective taken. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

55:21 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

As the Unsullied are busy attacking Casterly Rock, Euron's Iron Fleet ambushes their ships, destroying the Unsullied navy and cutting off any sea-based escape route in the process.

Jaime Lannister to Olenna Tyrell: "They won't be able to hold it (Casterly Rock). Euron Greyjoy's navy burned their ships, we emptied the larders before we left. Eventually, they'll be forced to abandon their position and march all the way across Westeros." (Victorious Battle)

7 more comments - see full thread

Jaime's dialogue seems to confirm it is Euron leading them, and there aren't any other Ironborn fleets led by anyone else at the moment. Giving Dany points here would be like giving Cersei credit for everything Euron and Jaime do.

I do think Tyrion is deserving of something for the plan, but he wasn't there to execute it and I'm not sure what the scoring category would be like. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
We should assume Euron's ship Silence being prominently shown (as it has in every episode this season) means Euron is present, unless explicitly seen under the command of someone else. Just like the rule change with Dany's dragons.

As for Tyrion - he was only sort-of successful. His plan worked in terms of obtaining the castle, but it failed horribly in terms of making progress towards winning the war. I don't think you can expect Dany would be too happy with Tyrion's plan. Jaime sure was happy about it, though. His strategy likely doomed Dany's most trusted army. Grey Worm still gets points for winning the physical battle and actually capturing the castle, but Tyrion as a war strategist did not have a victory here. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake, nyan, alexanderdropkin like this
Good argument about the Silence - didn't notice or think of that :) -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime's offer to Randyll Tarly to rebel against the Tyrells appears to have been accepted, as the Tarly's ride with the Lannister army on the assault on Highgarden. (Convincing Argument)

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Randyll Tarly allies with the Lannisters, taking Jaime Lannister's offer to become Warden of the South and marching with the Lannister army against the Tyrells. (New Follower/Prisoner)

See - if Jaime recruiting a new follower for Cersei counts for her, and Euron's fleet's points are his, shouldn't any of Dany's forces' points count for her as well? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
Or: This should probably bis Jaime's points :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
This one is a bit nebulous. Tarly has no interaction with Cersei and is arguably a lieutenant to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Agree, here I think Jaime should get the point not Cercei, we clearly see him with bronn following the "leader" jaime for this battle.
And I don't think Dany should get the points for her forces -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1 alexanderdropkin and playabills like this

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly becomes Warden of the South, having accepted Jaime's previous offer to rebel against the Tyrells as he rides with the Lannister army in the attack on Highgarden. (New Title)

Assumptions made from his dialogue with Jaime in the last episode - did we even get to see Randyll Tarly this episode? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
He was at the head of the army along with Jamie and Bronn and Dickon -tommyjames81

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and playabills like this
Here's a screencap, it's Randyll, Dickon and Bronn riding in formation at the beginning of the scene when they approach Highgarden: http://i.imgur.com/GzujWNO.jpg -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
They found the blandest, goofiest actor to replace old Dickon with. Kind of sad. -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1
He's just a big oaf now -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly betrays the Tyrells, to whom he is a sworn bannerman, siding with Lannisters and marching with their army in in the attack on Highgarden. (Act of Betrayal)

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Victorious Battle)

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

58:31 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is in possession of the Valyrian steel sword, Widow's Wail. "How will you do it? With that sword? That was Joffrey's sword, wasn't it? Not that he ever used it. What did he call it?" Jaime: "Widow's Wail." (New Weapon)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

In her dying moments, Olenna Tyrell reveals to Jaime that she was Joffrey's killer.

"I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes bloodred, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me ... You see, I had never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Per the previous discussion about Edd, we were considering elimination of the "willingly told" criteria and instead allowing scores if they are the only person to know the secret outside of the secret holder: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

This one seems to fit a similar criteria to Edd's discovery of Bran. Though it could be argued the identity of Joffrey's killer is irrelevant at this point? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I think that even if it is "willingly told", it is an important discovery for Jaime and only a few people know (maybe dead? Margeary <3). So the question is more about, Is this really a secret important for the plot and the story. But for Jaime it is. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1
It is definitely a secret discovery. And especially for Jaime it is crucial information because now his beloved brother who he freed and so forth is not guilty of the one crime that Jaime may not have ever been able to forgive him. Plus: Now Cersei's main legitimization for wanting Tyrion dead has to switch from regicide/nephicide to treason or whatever they call it :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and emilien.raggi like this
Ooh @Lem very good points about the implications to Tyrion! -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I personally like the "willingly told" criteria of the rule. A huge part of everything we see on screen is a secret in one way or another to other character's in the show. Without the "willingly told" clause this rule could start to run away with points. For example every named character in winterfell would have just gotten points for finding out that Bran is still alive, do we really want 10+ characters getting points for finding out a secret each episode? -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise that was the initial reason for the "willingly told" criteria, definitely something like Bran coming to Winterfell is now just new information, not a valuable secret. The new idea is the criteria that someone is the first/only person to know of a secret, since that gives them exclusive power to act on that information. That would seem to fit Jaime's situation (he could exonerate Sansa and Tyrion with this info). -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Yara, mocking Theon's reaction during their battle on her ship: "*Ohhh noooo!* What a twat." (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "There's nothing like it is there, the love of the people ... but I suppose you wouldn't know". (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

23:55 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Jaime Lannister: "...if you turn on us, they'll cheer to have your severed head mounted on a spike."
Euron: "Or yours. They just like severed heads, really." (Threat)

24:08 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Funny Line)

submitted by jbornstein89 (approved!)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

29:27 (+5) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime takes a drink in Cersei's chambers as we all try to collectively erase the imagery of Euron sticking Cersei with the pointy end. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

30:10 (+20) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime gets his trousers dropped as Cersei is feeling extra thirsty after another exhilarating session of dungeon torturing her enemies. (Act of Intercourse)

14 more comments - see full thread

@hindsight44 I made a clarification here after @ssantise brought it up, the intention was to double the acts but not everything related to the scene: http://fantasora.com/event/3308

The scoring should be about what the viewers see. So they get credit for the on-screen butts and nudity. Presumably every sex scene (even the PG ones), all the characters see all the parts so the scoring wouldn't really work that way. We also previously defined that you need to touch one of these parts to count as sex, so just seeing each other wouldn't count. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
what's the verdict on this? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3
Let's go with just a double of all the sex points (the nudity and the act), so the points remain as they are currently. It's quite powerful, but so far this is the first and only instance in 7 seasons that we got incest-related nudity out of either character. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

Special

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

20:58 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Yara: "Look at them, cheering for a Greyjoy. I have to be honest, this is making me hard." (Special)

22:57 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Cersei: "You've proven yourself the greatest captain of the Fourteen Seas." (Special)

24:08 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

24:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Euron asks Jaime for advice on pleasing Cersei: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

49:22 (+12) Archmaester Ebrose:

Archmaester Ebrose: "You treated him?"
Samwell Tarly: "Yes."
Ebrose: "Who told you to treat him?"
Sam: "No one."
Ebrose: "Who forbade you, or anyone, to attempt to treat him?"
Sam: "I seem to remember you."
Ebrose: "But you treated him anyway?"
Sam: "I did, yes." (Special)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

11 more comments - see full thread

what's the point of adding it if it's only 2 points per scene? When he's only in about 1 scene per episode anyway. -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 2
Hodor didn't have a cap. Cercei and Tyrion don't have caps on drink points. I like the idea of his new special. -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 2
So far he's scored 24pts off this Special, which leads the category but I wouldn't consider to be game-breaking. It's definitely a very good special, but still far shy of the uber powerful ones like Hodor's or Doran's. It's similar to Jon's special actually, in that he reliably gets it multiple times an episode (especially back in S1-4). -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 ssleppy and Lem Lemoncake like this

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Olenna Tyrell: "I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes blood red, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father." (Special)

Would this also be a secret discovery? -easson27

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2017 Aug 1
There's a provision that the secret can't be "willingly told" by the secret holder, but we just had a lengthy debate that points towards removing that criteria: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

With the new criteria used for Edd, it possibly counts - Jaime is the only person who knows at this point and is in a position to disseminate that information. I've created it as a submission here: http://fantasora.com/event/3344 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
Didn't you already give him points for this earlier in the thread?? -benmfink414

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2017 Aug 4

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