Matchup: Something Clever About GoT vs Gendry's Never Ending Boat Ride for Ep 5

Title required, pants optional

Something Clever About GoT (rrasmussen4)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Special
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#1	35	20	12	0	0	3
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys now pulls the political strings for Daenerys Targaryen, arranging alliances with the Westerosi Houses Tyrell and Martell. He controls a vast network of spies.	#16	11	0	0	6	5	0
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#8	6	0	6	0	0	0
Archmaester Ebrose Archmaester at the Citadel in Oldtown, where new Maesters are trained.	-	3	0	3	0	0	0
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#25	0	0	0	0	0	0
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	-	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#32	0	0	0	0	0	0
Harrag (actor: Brendan Cowell)	-	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		55	20	21	6	5	3

Gendry's Never Ending Boat Ride (carolinecay25)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#22	18	3	15	0
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#3	15	12	3	0
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment and subsequent infection with the fatal greyscale disease. As Daenerys leaves for Westeros, he wanders Essos in search of a cure.	#14	6	0	0	6
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#6	3	3	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#27	0	0	0	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#11	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#30	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#19	0	0	0	0
Totals		42	18	18	6

Kills

10:41 (+20) Daenerys Targaryen:

After they refuse to bend the knee, Daenerys has Randyll and Dickon Tarly executed by dragonfire.

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Kill of Named Character)

The most amazing part of this is that Daenerys doesn't chortle while saying "Dickon Tarly". The composure of a true and rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 alicehanners, vjdev2015, Lem Lemoncake, WampaLord like this
They chose to die rather than bend the knee, not sure I agree with giving her kill credit -nickcota

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2017 Aug 15
These are the points that come direct from Drogon burning them (which are given to Daenerys due to her special). In keeping with the direct kills only change, Daenerys would not be getting any points simply for ordering the kill. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15

Political Wins

7:15 (+6) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rounds up the Lannister prisoners in the aftermath of the battle, which include Randyll and Dickon Tarly. (New Follower/Prisoner)

She does say that she isn't putting people in chains, does this count? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
They all bent the knee theyre followers not prisoners -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
They're prisoners of war for the few hours post-battle. She decides she doesn't want to keep them around as prisoners, but the fact that she can make that decision about their fates shows that they are her prisoners I think. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech likes this
How does that then work with Jon and Davos? They're being held against their will, but she also says clearly that they are not her prisoners ("not yet"). -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
It seems pretty easy to just ask the question in a pragmatic way - do the characters have any freedom of movement or action, or are they compelled to stay in the custody of another character? The Tarlys are clearly in Daenerys' custody, Jon/Davos were definitely floating close to it in the initial meeting (since they had their weapons and boat taken away too). -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech and amaltazyan like this

9:32 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rejects Tyrion's pleas for mercy or alternative punishments for the Lannister army, choosing to burn those who will not bend.

"I meant what I said. I'm not here to put them in chains. If that becomes an option many will take it. I gave them a choice. They made it." (Executive Decision)

11:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

With the delivery of the Tyrell gold and a repayment of debts to the Iron Bank, Cersei secures a new loan: "We have the Tyrell gold, we have the Iron Bank behind us. We can buy mercenaries." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

12:57 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime explains to Cersei that it was Olenna Tyrell who had assassinated Joffrey, not Tyrion.

Jaime: "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died."
Cersei: "And this was before or after she drank the poison you so kindly provided her?"
Jaime: "After."
Cersei: "And you believed her?"
Jaime: "If you were Olenna, would you rather have seen your granddaughter married to Joffrey or Tommen? Which one would Margaery have been better able to control? Which one would have made Olenna the true ruler of the Seven Kingdoms? She was telling the truth." (Secret Discovery)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei rejects Jaime's plea to find a peaceful solution out of the conflict with Daenerys.

Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

same idiocy by me, Overrulibg decision. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
same principle as her oberruling jaime with Euron -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Did any decision come out of this? I'm not sure that Jaime had a proposal or that Cersei had an order at the end of the day. It was sort of an expression of sentiments, Jaime saying they can't win against dragons and Cersei saying they'll still fight on and find a way. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
Overuling doesnt mean mean you need to order anything. Her decision was to stay the course against a third parties disaproval. In a court of law a judge uses overrule so the subject can stay the course and not accept whatever arguement the lawyer is trying to present. Cersei didnt give an order or change anything at all when she Overuled Jaimes advice to meet with Euron, she simply stayed the course after overuling her generals advice. Also this was clearly not a simple tit for tat conversation, Jaime says at the beginning of the episode he has to tell Cersei how bad this is. As general of her army in his next scene he specifcally went to her to try and convince her that this is a war that they will lose. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Yeah I think that works as a light decision. Jaime didn't have a concrete solution but he was sort of proposing that they start looking for alternate, peaceful solutions and that was rejected pretty strongly. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

18:06 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After getting that infection checked out at the Maester Clinic, Daenerys happily accepts Jorah Mormont back into service as her First Sword of the Friendzone.

Jorah: "I return to your service, my Queen, if you'll have me." (New Follower/Prisoner)

22:09 (+3) Archmaester Ebrose:

Archmaester Ebrose rejects Sam's pleas to immediately alert the realm about the impending White Walker invasion as the Council of Maesters discusses a letter sent by Maester Wolkan of Winterfell about the army of the dead.

Samwell Tarly: "Archmaester, please. It's real. I've seen it."
Ebrose: "We will write to Maester Wolkan at Winterfell for clarification. I promise you we will get to the truth of it one way or another."
Sam: "Archmaester, please-"
Ebrose: "That will be all, Tarly." (Executive Decision)

submitted by Ser Vincent (approved!)

32:25 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is taken by Bronn to the dungeons beneath the Red Keep, where he finds his fugitive brother Tyrion who has arranged a meeting with him there. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

Dang, I am kind of regretting losing the "willfully told" provision. It was working as a decent catch-all to exclude a lot of stuff like this that does technically fit but we sort of know it is not a powerful secret that goes anywhere. Anyhow for consistency's sake I'll add it in, I feel like I want to do more thinking about Secrets next season. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 Lem Lemoncake likes this
damned if you do, damned if you don't -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
I think you should add the caveat that being willfully told a secret only counts if the only people who know the secret are the person telling the secret in the person being told secret. That still allows for secret discovery when it's not willingly told, but that puts an end to potential secret chains. What happens if Cersei told someone that Olenna killed Joffrey? What happens if that person tells them? Where does it end? -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15 nyan likes this
*and the person, not in the person -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

41:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei reveals that she is already aware of Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting.

Cersei: "Are you going to punish him?"
Jaime: "Tyrion?"
Cersei: "Bronn. He betrayed you. He set up a meeting without your knowledge or consent. Do you think anything of importance happens in this city without me knowing?" (Secret Discovery)

41:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting, Cersei agrees to the truce with Daenerys while they await for Jon to return with proof of the White Walker situation.

Cersei: "I've come to believe that an accommodation with the Dragon Queen could be in our immediate interest. She has the numbers. If we want to beat her, we have to be clever. We have to fight her like Father would have." (Deals Brokered)

53:29 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya breaks into Littlefinger's chambers and discovers the hidden raven letter, a note from Sansa Stark while she was held captive in King's Landing, asking Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee. (Secret Discovery)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime Lannister: "[Olenna's] dead, like her son, her grandchildren, her whole house. And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Witty Insult)

23:05 (+3) Varys:

Tyrion: "She gave Tarly a choice, a man who had taken up arms against her. What else could she do?"
Varys: "Not burn him alive alongside his son?" (Funny Line)

24:16 (+3) Varys:

Tyrion: "Who's that (raven letter) for?"
Varys: "Jon Snow."
Tyrion: "Did you read it?"
Varys: "It's a sealed scroll for the King in the North."
...
Tyrion: "What's it say?"
Varys: "Nothing good." (Funny Line)

7 more comments - see full thread

Tyrion only imo. Tyrion calls out Varys after Varys already tried to be deceptive, he does all the legwork here -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 16
id say both, its entirely possible for a joke to need two people to make it work. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 17
Added in a score for Tyrion's response here: http://fantasora.com/event/3608

I'll say Varys' follow-up is good enough to count, even if Tyrion's was the climax of the punchline. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

23:32 (+5) Varys:

Varys takes Tyrion wine cup and downs it while recollecting his days as the Mad Kind Aerys' adviser.

"I found the traitors, but I wasn't the one burning them alive. I was only a purveyor of information. It's what I told myself when I watched them beg for mercy - I'm not the one doing it. When the pitch of their screams rose higher - I'm not the one doing it. When their hair caught fire and the smell of their burning flesh filled the throne room - I'm not the one doing it." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Special

10:24 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Special)

17:18 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Qhono?: "This man says he is your friend, Khaleesi."
Daenerys: "He is my friend." (Special)

17:42 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Upon his return to Dragonstone, Jorah is introduced to the new Daario: "Jon Snow, this is Ser Jorah Mormont, an old friend." (Special)

The Feels

15:08 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:28 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

Tyrion and Jorah share a brief reunion before Jorah sails off to the Wall on Jon's expedition to kidnap a wight..

Tyrion: "This is the coin the slaver gave me when I suggested he free us and pay us, remember?"
Jorah: "It was supposed to last us the rest of our lives."
Tyrion: "Take it with you. But bring it back. Our Queen needs you." (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys says her goodbyes to Jorah once again, as she takes his hands into hers.

Daenerys: "We should be better at saying farewell by now."
Jorah: "Your Grace, I-" (stunned speechless by actual physical contact) (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

9 more comments - see full thread

There's a few good articles and reddit threads about this but yeah I feel the same. I think running out of the pre-written book material, and deciding to just run with the 7 episodes of concrete content they had rather than flesh things out, has hurt them. On one hand, Benioff and Weiss were never going to be able to write out the same level of plot intricacies that GRRM would, and the attempts we've seen have been god awful (everything about Dorne, and I'd argue the treatment of Euron). But there are a lot of competent writers out there from other shows, I feel like they had the budget to create something here. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this
Theres no way the creators can say there wasnt enough material to make three more episodes. In e5 Gendry comes back, Jorah comes back, Bran sends a raven to dragon stone and they all end up at fucking eastwatch together. Not to mention cutting off a conversation half way through between Tyrion and Jaime that could have been a great fucking scene. Seriously missed opportunity. Also The brotherhood just magically going from the riverlands to eastwatch with no scenes in between. Im gonna beyond pissed if the writers dont take advantage of The Hound and Tormund being together.Also Dorne is a great example, usually the show is really good at atleast representing who the characters are if they cant fit in the plot points. But they just glossed over Doran and made him look like a pussy and Areo Hotah didnt kill one fucking person. The board probably got together and realized they would make the same revenue by making either 7 or 10 episodes. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 18 nyan and hkeseyan like this
Yeah there was a ton more for Jaime-Tyrion! This was their first meeting since S4! All the pent up resentment, Jaime discovering that Tyrion wasn't behind Joffrey after all, Tyrion thinking he'd almost lose his brother for that stupid charge against the dragon! And instead after 10s Jaime just interrupts his brother so they can move on to talking about what Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Cersei want to do. grrr -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

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