anything i can change it later

You Win or You Die

32.5 roto pts (#8)
Z-Score: -1.036 (percentile: 15.01%)
Weeks at #1: 0
Categories won:
Best Week: Episode 3: The Queen's Justice (+3.5 roto points)
Team MVP: Jon Snow (picked #1, 165 points, 79.33% of team total)

Roster Stats

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#1	165	89	36	15	0	10	0	15
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#16	29	10	0	9	5	0	5	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#32	14	0	6	3	0	0	5	0
Aeron Greyjoy An uncle of Theon Greyjoy, who serves as a priest to the Drowned God.	#49	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Denys Mallister A member of the Night's Watch and commander of the Shadow Tower, located the west end of the Wall. He was a candidate to be elected for Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, though Jon Snow ultimately won the election.	#48	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#33	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ornela (Dothraki Widow from Lhazareen) A young Dothraki widow from Dosh Khaleen. She follows Daenerys Targaryen after she defeats the other Khals by burning them alive inside the Temple of Dosh Khaleen.	#64	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#17	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		208	99	42	27	5	10	10	15

Roster

charId	Character	Special
39	Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	* +1 each time he unintentionally drops Longclaw * +1 point each time he is called a bastard in his presence * Ghost's actions contribute to his points.
59	Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	+1 point every time she interlocks arms with someone while walking.
28	Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	* Scores for any kills of non-combatants * Scores for each sentence spoken * Interacting with bowls
221	Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.
27	Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	+1 point for failed attempts at basic tasks. +1 point for surprising people with how good he is at a task
193	Denys Mallister A member of the Night's Watch and commander of the Shadow Tower, located the west end of the Wall. He was a candidate to be elected for Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, though Jon Snow ultimately won the election.
233	Aeron Greyjoy An uncle of Theon Greyjoy, who serves as a priest to the Drowned God.
255	Ornela (Dothraki Widow from Lhazareen) A young Dothraki widow from Dosh Khaleen. She follows Daenerys Targaryen after she defeats the other Khals by burning them alive inside the Temple of Dosh Khaleen.

Kills

Episode 2: Stormborn

43:40 (+1) Jon Snow:

Jon chokes a creeping Littlefinger against a wall in the Crypts of Winterfell. "Talk to my sister, and I'll kill you myself." (Minor Injury of Named Character)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

Episode 5: Eastwatch

12:57 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime confirms the death of Olenna Tyrell from the poisoned wine she takes after the Tyrell defeat at Highgarden. "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died." (Kill of Named Character (finished off from previously fatal injury))

9 more comments - see full thread

thanks! -Laxis

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2017 Aug 25
did you find anything? it would make a few points differences for our roto standings (my team probably won't come close to victory anyway, but other teams would lose points in relation too) -Laxis

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2017 Aug 28
Hey @Laxis, really sorry but don't think I'll be able to get to it this week - still on a hectic travel schedule and barely have enough hours of internet access to do the scoring. It's on my list, but may come the week after. Sorry =[ -nyan

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2017 Aug 29

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

33:06 (+10) Jon Snow:

After dodging a blow, Jon slices through the White Walker leading the scouting party with Longclaw, shattering it to pieces. (Kill of Named Character)

33:07 (+14) Jon Snow:

7 of the wights in the scouting party disintegrate after Jon kills the White Walker leading them.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

15 more comments - see full thread

It feels incredibly unfair to not count the deaths as kills. Those 7 Wights died as a result of a combat situation, the kills need to be attributed. The surrender analogy does not work, in a normal situation the surrendering soldiers would be taken captive because they are alive and still functioning. In this scenario the wights couldn't be captured because they were destroyed due to Jon's actions, the wight they DID capture can more accurately be seen as a surrender. If anything, this resembles an execution of prisoners, where Jon passed the judgement and swung the sword.

Also I agree that it is unfair to remove the points after a week, where no new arguments were brought up to strengthen the case for removal. -brandonthebigB

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2017 Aug 28 hindsight44 likes this
When soldiers surrender you have gained an asset or at the very least levrage. There is a specific advantage to gaining surrendered soldiers that is not at play here. They were once functional wights that would kill any living thing and now theyre nothing. The rules state that kills are counted regardless of reason. Jon Snows actions directly led those 7 wights dying........again -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 28
Yeah the delay in scoring update is my bad, I've ended up on another spotty-internet week during travel for this one and wasn't able to do these earlier. The summer run for S7 has really caused some conflicts with travel, I'll have to figure out the S8 schedule much better.

I think you guys are right from a scorekeeping purity standpoint. The wights went from soldiers to being dead because of this action, to call it a surrender can work as a stretch but yes, it is a stretch we'd be making to find a way to discount the points. I started thinking about parallel examples, with a very basic kill switch action that causes large numbers of deaths. You might say Bronn igniting the Blackwater Bay wildfire, or a hypothetical Qyburn's little bird igniting the wildfire underneath the Sept of Baelor, and I think most players would readily accept those as valid scores.

Giving it some further thought, I did have that same first impression of "cheapness" as most of the others who initially commented. I think that comes from having such a directly comparable set of kills in the exact same scene - the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, et. al. are busy hacking away at the wights for their measly 1-2 kills each, and then Jon swoops in with an easy 7-kill swing. But it can be fine that some kills are cheaper than others, and while a jackpot scenario may exist in the future with whoever takes down the Night King, it's a much more equitable free-for-all for any character to achieve, unlike say Daenerys' dragon roastings.

Perhaps with better per-league tools, we can again have multiple rulesets for S8 that could include or exclude the wight-follower kills.

Anyhow for this one, I'll go back to the original decision which is to count the 7 as kills. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, emilien.raggi like this

47:17 (+34) Jon Snow:

Jon cuts down 17 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group, up until Daenerys and her dragons arrive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

52:39 (+20) Jon Snow:

Jon realizes he is currently only 4th place on the Kills leaderboard, and climbs back down off of Drogon to score 10 more wight kills in garbage time, as all the others wisely get onboard. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:34 (+8) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow cuts down four wights after witnessing Viseron's death, before realizing that trying to cut his way to the Night King for a 1v1 was a terrible idea and that he should really get back to the dragon evac. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

23:04 (+2) Jon Snow:

At the audience in King's Landing, Jon demonstrates the two ways of defeating the Army of the Dead, burning the wight's severed hand, and then finishing off the dismembered wight with a dragonglass dagger. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Dang, I thought Qyburn was going to come away with a new specimen for his experiments here. Would've been cool to see a franken-wight in S8. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 Lem Lemoncake and emilydcampa like this
I noticed the "Captured Wight" was added as a draftable character. Would that not make him more significant / a named character? -kimbo

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jedjackoway, jake.kmiech like this
I think we'll keep the criteria for "boss fight", which is the character being featured in a battle scene being a badass and/or owning the other extras. Not every draftable character will qualify to be a named/boss fight kill, we had this earlier with a few speculative draftable characters that ended up having extremely minor roles. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29

Political Wins

Episode 1: Dragonstone

12:31 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon refuses to strip the Umbers and Karstarks of their castles for Smalljon and Harald's treasonous siding with Ramsay Bolton, despite the objections from Sansa and the other Northern lords.

"...I will not punish a son for his father's sins, and I will not take a family home away from a family it has belonged to for centuries.
That is my decision, and my decision is final." (Executive Decision)

13:14 (+6) Jon Snow:

Jon receives pledges of loyalty from Ned Umber and Alys Karstark, the new heads of their respective houses after Smalljon Umber and Harald Karstark died in the Battle of Winterfell. (New Follower/Prisoner)

Episode 2: Stormborn

39:03 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow decides that he must go to Dragonstone to meet with Daenerys, despite objections from Sansa and nearly all the Northern lords. "Daenerys is a Queen. Only a King could convince her to help us. It has to be me." (Executive Decision)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly becomes Warden of the South, having accepted Jaime's previous offer to rebel against the Tyrells as he rides with the Lannister army in the attack on Highgarden. (New Title)

Assumptions made from his dialogue with Jaime in the last episode - did we even get to see Randyll Tarly this episode? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
He was at the head of the army along with Jamie and Bronn and Dickon -tommyjames81

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and playabills like this
Here's a screencap, it's Randyll, Dickon and Bronn riding in formation at the beginning of the scene when they approach Highgarden: http://i.imgur.com/GzujWNO.jpg -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
They found the blandest, goofiest actor to replace old Dickon with. Kind of sad. -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1
He's just a big oaf now -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly betrays the Tyrells, to whom he is a sworn bannerman, siding with Lannisters and marching with their army in in the attack on Highgarden. (Act of Betrayal)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

23:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon reveals the ancient petroglyphs carved into the obsidian cave at Dragonstone, showing the Children of the Forest and the First Men fighting together against the White Walkers.

"There is something else I want to show you, Your Grace. The children of the forest made these. ... A very long time ago. They were right here, standing where we're standing. Before there were Targaryens or Starks or Lannisters. ... They were here together, the children and the First Men.
... They fought together against their common enemy. Despite their differences, despite their suspicions. Together. We need to do the same if we're going to survive. Because the enemy is real. It's always been real." (Secret Discovery)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

0:00 (+3) Jon Snow:

Gendry enthusiastically pledges to follow Jon Snow beyond the Wall to take on the White Walkers. (New Follower/Prisoner)

26:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Over Davos' and Daenerys' protests, Jon decides that he'll personally lead the expedition north of the Wall to capture a wight.

Davos Seaworth: "You can't lead a raid beyond the Wall. You're not in the Night's Watch anymore, you're King in the North."
Jon: "I'm the only one here who's fought them. I'm the only one here who knows them."
Daenerys: "I haven't given you permission to leave."
Jon: "With respect, Your Grace, I don't need your permission. I am a King." (Executive Decision)

57:14 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon silences the squabbling in the Eastwatch cells and recruits the prisoners into his expedition.

Jon: "He's right. We're all on the same side."
Gendry: "How can we be?"
Jon: "We're all breathing." (Convincing Argument)

Definitely deserves some points, but maybe this should be under convincing argument -kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 16 hkeseyan and nyan like this
If he weren't the one in charge making the decision, and that line swayed the decision-maker, it'd be a convincing argument. IMO, this is the right category for this. Whether his decision was convincing or not we shall see. -dopeghoti

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2017 Aug 17
More of a semantics issue, but I switched this from Executive to Convince. I took this more of a line to Gendry who doesn't work with the Brotherhood - it's not a command that Gendry fall in line but attempting to convince Gendry that his beef doesn't matter as the White Walkers are the true enemy. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

33:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow and his crew successfully ambush the White Walker scouting party, killing the leader and capturing the live wight they were looking for. (Victorious Battle)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

26:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

In what is universally regarded as a terrible idea by all sides, Jon single-handedly dissolves the Lannister-Targaryen truce in the name of honor and hopefully getting into Daenerys' pants later.

Cersei: "In return, the King in the North will extend this truce. He will remain in the North where he belongs. He will not take up arms against the Lannisters. He will not choose sides. ... I know Ned Stark's son will be true to his word."
Jon Snow: "I am true to my word. Or I try to be. That is why I cannot give you what you ask. I cannot serve two queens. And I have already pledged myself to Queen Daenerys of House Targaryen." (Executive Decision)

45:47 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon convinces Daenerys to sail with him to the North, rather than flying on her own.

"It's your decision, Your Grace. But if we're going to be allies in this war, it's important for the Northerners to see us as allies. If we sail to White Harbor together, I think it sends a better message." (Convincing Argument)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

Episode 1: Dragonstone

14:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Sansa Stark: "They respect you, they really do, but you have to- Why are you laughing?"
Jon Snow: "What did father used to say? Everything before the word 'but' is horse shit." (Witty Insult)

submitted by andrei.sias (approved!)

Episode 2: Stormborn

0:00 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

"I'm a Tarly. That name means something. We're not oathbreakers. We're not schemers. We don't stab our rivals in the back or cut their throats at weddings." (Witty Insult)

submitted by peggypcwu (approved!)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

16:04 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon and Daenerys discuss her dragons.

Daenerys: "They're beautiful, aren't they?"
Jon: "It wasn't the word I was thinking of, but... but, yes, they are. Gorgeous beasts." (Funny Line)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

4:16 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tormund Giantsbane: "I can breathe again. Down south the air smells like pigshit."
Jon Snow: "You've never been down south."
Tormund: "I've been to Winterfell."
Jon: "That's the North." (Funny Line)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

61:12 (+10) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow's ignites his latent Targaryen instincts to incest with his aunt Daenerys aboard her ship as they sail for White Harbor. (Act of Intercourse)

Deaths

Episode 5: Eastwatch

10:54 (+5) Randyll Tarly:

After refusing to bend the knee, Randyll is burned to ashes by Drogon's dragonfire alongside his son Dickon.

Daenerys: "Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Death)

12:57 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime confirms the death of Olenna Tyrell from the poisoned wine she takes after the Tyrell defeat at Highgarden. "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died." (Death)

Special

Episode 2: Stormborn

10:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Sansa reading Tyrion's letter to Jon Snow: "All dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes." (Special)

Sure Tyrion alludes to Jon Snow being a bastard by calling himself a bastard, but he doesn't outright call Jon Snow a bastard. Does Jon get points every time he's called by his last name "Snow" which alludes to the fact that hes a bastard? -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24
He gets points for the word bastard only. The words are on paper but Sansa says them out loud anyway. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24
fair enough -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

32:38 (+3) Jon Snow:

Missandei: "Forgive me, but may I ask a question? ... Your name is Jon Snow, but your father's name is Ned Stark?"
Jon Snow: "I'm a bastard. My mother and father weren't married." (Special)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

54:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow drops Longclaw on the frozen ice sheet after he is tackled under water by the wights during the dragon evacuation. (Special)

The Feels

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

20:20 (+0) Podrick Payne:

While watching on as the living Stark children together in the courtyard of Winterfell:

Podrick: "Catelyn Stark would be proud. You've kept your vow."
Brienne: "I did next to nothing."
Podrick: "You're too hard on yourself, My Lady."
Brienne: "I'm not- ...thank you, Podrick." (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

15:08 (+0) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

©
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