Matchup: Cersei Must Die vs Jared's team for Ep 4

Cersei Must Die (tara.legaski)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths
Ramsay Bolton The legitimized bastard son of Roose Bolton, now Warden of the North. He is fond of the Bolton tradition of flaying their enemies.	#10	18	10	0	3	0	5	0
Osha A wildling woman who serves the Starks. She splits off from Bran's group and travels with Rickon.	#63	18	0	0	3	0	5	10
Tormund Giantsbane A leader of the Wildlings, and formerly a trusted lieutenant and second-in-command to Mance Rayder, the King Beyond the Wall. Although they have met in battle more than once, he bears a grudging respect for Jon Snow.	#34	5	0	0	0	5	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#3	3	0	3	0	0	0	0
Trystane Martell Prince Doran Martell's son, and heir to Dorne. He is betrothed to Myrcella Baratheon, and accompanies her back to King's Landing to serve on the Small Council.	#46	1	0	0	0	0	0	1
Olly An orphan boy of the Night's Watch, and a squire for Lord Commander Jon Snow. He is part of the mutiny that betrays Jon and leaves him for dead.	#58	1	0	0	0	0	0	1
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He recently accompanied Jaime Lannister on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Dorne to rescue the Princeess Myrcella Baratheon.	#15	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Leaf A member of the Children of the Forest. She leads Bran and his companions to cave of the Three-eyed Raven.	#70	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#51	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Margaery Tyrell The wife of King Tommen Baratheon and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Her increasing influence over the young king have put at her odds against his mother, Cersei Lannister.	#27	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#39	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#22	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		46	10	3	6	5	10	12

Jared's team (jaredjb2)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Sex	Deaths	Special
Daenerys Targaryen The last royal member of the Targaryen dynasty, Daenerys and her three dragons have carved out a revolutionary empire in the east, liberating several slave cities and acquiring an army of Unsullied warriors. Her recent rule over the slave city of Meereen has been met with strife, however, and she currently finds herself lost with her largest dragon, Drogon, in Dothraki territory.	#2	87	54	15	3	15	0	0
Khal Forzo A Dothraki Khal	#71	13	0	0	3	0	10	0
Khal Rhalko A Dothraki Khal	#26	10	0	0	0	0	10	0
Grand Maester Pycelle The Grand Maester of the Seven Kingdoms. Pycelle is highly educated and serves as an advisor to the King.	#50	6	0	0	0	0	0	6
Loras Tyrell The heir to Highgarden and regarded as one of the most skilled knights in Westeros. He is the brother of Margaery Tyrell. He is currently imprisoned by the High Sparrow for his alleged homosexual affairs with Olyvar, the brothel owner.	#47	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. His journeys north of the Wall have recently led him to the cave of the Three-eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.	#14	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, bannermen to the Lannisters. He defeated Prince Oberyn Martell in a trial by combat for Tyrion Lannister's role in King Joffrey's death, although he was gravely injured in the fight. He appears to have recovered (in some form) under Grand Maester Qyburn's care, and returns to serve as a member of the Kingsguard.	#11	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and now sails with him to Oldtown as Sam begins his Maester's training.	#35	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Mace Tyrell The head of House Tyrell and Lord of Highgarden. He is the father of Loras and Margaery. While bumbling and appearing incompetent, he heads a powerful House and serves as both Master of Ships and Master of Coin on King Tommen Baratheon's Small Council.	#38	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#23	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Qhono A Dothraki bloodrider	#62	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Child of the Forest Another Child of the Forest who is encountered far beyond the Wall.	#59	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		116	54	15	6	15	20	6

Kills

46:20 (+10) Ramsay Bolton:

Ramsay exposes his knowledge of Osha's loyalty to the Starks, stabbing her through the throat before she can assassinate him. (Kill of Named Character)

55:17 (+10) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys shoves the last torchstand at Khal Moro, burning him alive inside the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen. (Kill of Named Character)

56:01 (+20) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys burns down the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen, with Khal Rhalko and Khal Forzo inside of it. (Kill of Named Character)

9 more comments - see full thread

Rhalko is named by Khal Moro, "You'd rather be sold into slaver? Or maybe you'd like to show Rhalko here what you taste like?".

Forzo was not, but existed as a draftable character based on casting rumors, so he's included.

Qhono was not actually in the tent, he's visible as one of the Dothraki in the crowd approaching the burning Temple (around 59:23 on the hbogo stream). -nyan

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2016 May 16 alandennis88 likes this
Will clarify the new precedent in rulebook. The "named" character definition will be bent a little to include:
* all draftable characters
* "boss fight" characters, to borrow from video game terminology (pending)

For more discussion on the new "Kills of Named Character" criteria, check out the proposal at: http://fantasora.com/event/2394 -nyan

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2016 May 16 alandennis88 likes this
Maybe it would be clearer if you simply changed it to "Kills of Draftable Characters/Bosses" :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 16

56:01 (+24) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys burns down the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen, with twelve unnamed Khals and their bloodriders inside of it, in addition to Khal Moro, Rhalko, and Forzo. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

27:30 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys convinces her rescuers on a new escape plan
Daenerys: "We will *never* get out of Vaes Dothrak alive."
Jorah: "All we can do is try."
Daenerys: "No. We can do more than that. And you're going to help me." (Convincing Argument)

39:52 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Despite their initial protests, Cersei convinces the Hand of the King Kevan Lannister and Olenna Tyrell to go with her plan to march the Tyrell army into King's Landing to arrest the High Sparrow and rescue Queen Margaery.
Kevan Lannister: "We'll have civil war. Many will die."
Olenna Tyrell: "Many will die no matter what we do. Better them than us." (Convincing Argument)

No Jaime points for this? I took it as he convinces Kevan. "We're you commanded not to stand down?", "Do you think Tommen will complain when he has his wife back by his side? " etc -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 16 thederekwilson, coconnor723, mariahwestfall3 like this
Yeah, this was clearly a tag team effort. -nsimmonds

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2016 May 16 nyan likes this
Jaime's points have been proposed here: http://fantasora.com/event/2388 -nyan

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2016 May 16

56:22 (+9) Daenerys Targaryen:

The Dothraki of Vaes Dothrak arrive at the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen and bow down to Daenerys as their new ruler, after she kills off all of the Khals by burning them alive in the Temple. Among them are Khal Moro's bloodrider Qhono, the High Priestess of the Dosh Khaleen, and the Lhazareen Khal widow. (New Follower/Prisoner)

56:28 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys claims dominion over Vaes Dothrak as the inhabits of the city bow down to her, after her burning of the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen and all of the ruling Khals inside of it. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

43:47 (+3) Osha:

Ramsay: "Do you know who I am?"
Osha: "A lord."
Ramsay: "Yes. A lord. You've seen my banners?"
Osha: "The flayed man."
Ramsay: "Does that worry you at all?"
Osha: "You eat them after?"
Ramsay: "No."
Osha: "Then I've seen worse." (Witty Insult)

submitted by cjcookart (approved!)

48:47 (+3) Ramsay Bolton:

Ramsay sends a letter to Jon Snow, demanding Sansa back:

"Keep her from me and I will ride north and slaughter every wildling man, woman, and babe living under your protection. You will watch as I skin them living. You will watch as my soldiers take turns raping your sister. You will watch as my dogs devour your wild little brother. Then I will spoon your eyes from their sockets and let my dogs do the rest. Come and see." (Threat)

submitted by elise.gwen.morgan (approved!)

11 more comments - see full thread

The letter should definitely count. But it should count once, since that Khal threatening Dany to suffer various rapes counts once as well. -Lem Lemoncake

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2016 May 16 as38 likes this
I don't know, Ramsay definitely threatened each character uniquely. Khal Moro was threatening the same person with the same act, but multiple times. I don't think that's equivalent. -theripleymanor

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2016 May 17
It seems like it could be summed up as ultimately a threat to Jon. "You will watch as... [terrible stuff happens to Sansa]. You will watch as... [terrible stuff happens to Rickon]. Then I will spoon your eyes from their sockets..." The threat is the emotional torture that he will put Jon through after he's defeated. -nyan

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2016 May 17

51:41 (+3) Khal Forzo:

Kahl Rhalko: "I'd like to know what a Khaleesi tastes like."
Khal Forzo: "Good. You can suck my dick" (Witty Insult)

53:14 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

to the Dothraki Khals: "And here, now, what great matters do the Great Khals discuss? Which little villages you'll raid, how many girls you'll get to fuck, how many horses you'll demand in tribute. You are small men. None of you are fit to lead the Dothraki." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

48:01 (+5) Tormund Giantsbane:

Tormund drinks from his mug as Jon Snow unrolls the letter from Ramsay Bolton. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

45:54 (+5) Osha:

Osha gets her hands in Ramsay's pants. "Same thing men always want. And when they really want it, they give it a bath first." (Act of Intercourse)

submitted by cjcookart (approved!)

8 more comments - see full thread

We saw that Osha got farther than the slavers, comparing it to other events in this episode, at least. -cjcookart

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2016 May 17
@taylor Theon's torture scene is another good example. We actually never did a rewatch for S3 so it hasn't been scored, but it has similarities to this one, though it ends up a good deal more sexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZLQxu9aHdc

The game and scoring should continue evolving better definitions, so don't automatically take the S2 points as evidence that this should also count for sex. Instead I would use it as a thought experiment - the two situations are very similar, so whichever way I feel about scoring one, should probably apply to the other. If I feel that they should be scored differently, what is the criteria that differentiates them?

I would also say that, while the on-screen intimacy shown here definitely feels more "deserving" than the Slavers' scene, the game still works as long as the rules are clear and consistent, e.g. if we decide on "full penetration" or "skin-on-skin contact of reproductive organs" as criteria. It can end up excluding a few worthy events, but also adds an extra element of detail to be on the lookout for. The intricacies of wine drinking and the refill mechanics are my personal favorite examples of precise scorekeeping that makes for a more fun fantasy-watching experience, compared to a more common-sense approach that eyeballs how many drinks were consumed. -nyan

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2016 May 17 cjcookart likes this
We'll go with "direct contact with reproductive organs", which this will count for. This verbage has been added to the rulebook. -nyan

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2016 May 18 bookworm13457 likes this

45:55 (+5) Ramsay Bolton:

Ramsay gets a handy prelude from Osha, before surprising her with some intense penetration. (Act of Intercourse)

submitted by cjcookart (approved!)

55:58 (+15) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys emerges outside of the burning Temple of the Dosh Khaleen, with her clothes burned away, but unharmed. (Non-sexual Nude Scene)

Guess I was wrong about the actress saying no more nude scenes. Maybe she meant nude scenes where she isn't bathed in fire. -taylorreneegoodrich

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2016 May 16 righteous, nyan, jedjackoway like this
In response to the comment above this:

There is a interview with Emilia Clarke specifically about this scene. She agreed to do a nude scene if it was in private. So they filmed her I believe in Belfast on a "closed set" with only a couple of people. The rest of the scene was filmed in Spain I think and basically they used CGI to make it look like Khaleesi/Emilia was actually there with everyone else. -marksizzle

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2016 May 16 nyan and taylorreneegoodrich like this
We were actually debating at my viewing party if they CGI'ed her body and that's why the nudity was included.

Or maybe she was just trying to throw off Fantasora drafts!! -coconnor723

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2016 May 16 nyan and taylorreneegoodrich like this

Deaths

46:30 (+10) Osha:

Osha bleeds out on the floor of Ramsay Bolton's quarters, after her failed attempt to assassinate him. (Death)

56:01 (+10) Khal Rhalko:

Khal Rhalko perishes after being burned alive by Daenerys Targaryen inside the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen. (Death)

56:01 (+10) Khal Forzo:

Khal Rhalko perishes after being burned alive by Daenerys Targaryen inside the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen. (Death)

+1 for Olly, +1 for Trystane Martell

Special

35:13 (+6) Grand Maester Pycelle:

Pycelle walks two arduous marathons after Cersei shows up and gives him the boot from King Tommen's quarters.
The 400m: 5 steps immediately as Cersei enters the room
The 10k: 23 step traversal to get around the table and out the door. (Special)

Was expecting him to take a pit stop in that open chair out of sheer exhaustion. -coconnor723

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2016 May 16 nyan likes this
I counted more than ten steps. Granted, he did not stop, but should this only count once, or twice? -dopeghoti

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2016 May 16
@dopeghoti it's walks of 5 or more steps, which can be broken up by pauses. He does pause at the very end when he passes Cersei, but we don't see him take another 5 out of that (he just quickly moves out of frame). -nyan

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2016 May 16
He does take 5 visible little steps towards the table after Cersei enters the room ("I am advising the king on our current predicament...") and another 5 steps towards Tommen ("Obviously not, I am here to lend my wisdom and my support") before his long exit. -Ser Vincent

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2016 May 16 nyan likes this
Great catch @Ser Vincent. There's a bit of a half-shuffle cheat for step#1, iffy pause, and then 4 steps after that before the cutaway. Probably doesn't pass muster for an NBA double-dribble violation, but we'll give the lethargic Pycelle the benefit of the doubt: https://gfycat.com/FondLongGenet -nyan

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2016 May 18 Ser Vincent likes this

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