Matchup: Showing you the Moon Door vs Cersei Must Die for Ep 10

Jared's season 6 league

Showing you the Moon Door (jcampbell150)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths	Special
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Free-spirited and rebellious, Arya escaped the war-ravaged Westeros and currently resides in Braavos, where she trains under the face-changing assassin Jaqen H'ghar in the House of Black and White.	#6	30	30	0	0	0	0	0
Jon Snow The bastard son of Ned Stark, and the current Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After guiding the Wildlings to safety in the aftermath of the Battle of Castle Black and the attack on Hardhome, he was betrayed by a mutiny of the Night's Watch, and left for dead in the snow.	#7	30	0	21	3	0	0	6
Qyburn A disgraced former Maester, who was banished from the order for engaging in forbidden experiments. He is recruited by Cersei to assist in various medical facilities, and now serves as Master of Whispers in King's Landing.	#67	19	10	9	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover.	#31	8	0	3	0	5	0	0
Khal Moro The leader of a new Khalasar of Dothraki.	#42	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Aeron Greyjoy An uncle of Theon Greyjoy, who serves as a priest to the Drowned God.	#55	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tyene Sand The youngest of Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She uses daggers and poisons as her weapons.	#43	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Jaqen H'ghar The leader of the Faceless Men of Braavos, and a skilled assassin. He trains Arya to become an assassin in the House of Black and White.	#30	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#19	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death.	#54	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
High Priestess of the Dosh Khaleen A priestess who leads the Dosh Khaleen, the widows of slain khals who preside over the holy city of Vaes Dothrak.	#66	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. A sworn sword to the late Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#18	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		88	40	33	3	5	1	6

Cersei Must Die (tara.legaski)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Deaths	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms and mother to King Tommen. Afflicted by a rare water allergy.	#3	627	598	9	6	5	0	9
Lancel Lannister A cousin to the Lannister children. In a past life he was a stuttering servant to King Robert Baratheon and secret consort to his cousin Queen Cersei Lannister. Lancel now serves as a leading member of the Sparrows, a dangerously militant religious group whose power over King's Landing is growing.	#39	18	5	3	0	0	10	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He recently accompanied Jaime Lannister on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Dorne to rescue the Princeess Myrcella Baratheon.	#15	14	0	0	9	5	0	0
Margaery Tyrell The wife of King Tommen Baratheon and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Her increasing influence over the young king have put at her odds against his mother, Cersei Lannister.	#27	10	0	0	0	0	10	0
Osha A wildling woman who serves the Starks. She splits off from Bran's group and travels with Rickon.	#63	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Ramsay Bolton The legitimized bastard son of Roose Bolton, now Warden of the North. He is fond of the Bolton tradition of flaying their enemies.	#10	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Leaf A member of the Children of the Forest. She leads Bran and his companions to cave of the Three-eyed Raven.	#70	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Olly An orphan boy of the Night's Watch, and a squire for Lord Commander Jon Snow. He is part of the mutiny that betrays Jon and leaves him for dead.	#58	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
Trystane Martell Prince Doran Martell's son, and heir to Dorne. He is betrothed to Myrcella Baratheon, and accompanies her back to King's Landing to serve on the Small Council.	#46	1	0	0	0	0	1	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#22	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tormund Giantsbane A leader of the Wildlings, and formerly a trusted lieutenant and second-in-command to Mance Rayder, the King Beyond the Wall. Although they have met in battle more than once, he bears a grudging respect for Jon Snow.	#34	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#51	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		674	603	12	15	10	25	9

Kills

9:13 (+5) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel carves the seven-pointed star into Loras Tyrell's forehead after his confessions, as a symbol of Loras' sins and newfound faith in the Seven. (Major Injury of Named Character)

13:02 (+10) Qyburn:

After luring Pycelle to his laboratory, Qyburn's Little Birds converge and stab the Grand Maester to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Kill of Named Character)

Pycelle fights back and the little birds overwhelm him. Does this qualify as unskilled? -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28
I was thinking about this too. I think this is one of the few cases of the "executing a prisoner" scenario where the prisoner wasn't completely tied up and helpless, even if he was old, decrepit, and unarmed. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm good with it either way. Sadly, killing Pycelle probably falls beneath the floor of what qualifies as "skill" -bookworm13457

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2016 Jun 28 jedjackoway likes this
And really, by the time Qyburn lured him to the basement laboratory, the deed was done. No way was Pycelle was making it back up those stairs. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28

17:14 (+60) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. The High Sparrow, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, and Margaery Tyrell perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

115 more comments - see full thread

Part 2: So here's what we'll do.

Camp A will be a "default", as I think it's the general impression most viewers had on watching the scene, if they didn't dive into the nitty-gritty of scoring criteria. All of the leagues currently on Ruleset 3.1 and 4.0, Cersei will keep all the kill points.

For Camp B, all of the "reasonable split" scores will be added (Lem, Ramsay, Jordaario), under new Rulesets called 3.1b and 4.0b. These are the same as the existing Rulesets, just with these kill points added. Consider this a branch of the rules, enabling Leagues to self-determine which interpretation of the scoring criteria they want to apply.

I'll also be developing a new Ruleset 5.0 for the rewatches and S7 - it'll include the removal of commanded kills and the addition of some new political scoring categories to address some of the events that have felt like they weren't properly credited this season. The exact details need to be fine-tuned (the rewatches will be good practice), but ultimately it should address each of this season's controversial scores in a way that's unambiguous and properly rewarding for the magnitude of the characters' actions on the show.

At the end of this discussion, I personally fell into Camp C ("nothing counts"). However my read on that is that most players, in their gut, wanted the scoring to be Camp A or Camp B, but ended up supporting the strictness of Camp C because the other options create some hard-to-reconcile precedents. As a scorekeeper, there's some wariness that both Ruleset 4.0 and 4.0b will now be slightly broken in a "crap, this is going to be a mess for some future S7 events that I can imagine happening" sense.

The 5.0 revision of the rules should be the answer to that concern - we won't have to worry about these controversial 4.0/4.0b scores establishing bad precedents for future scoring, because we'll be using a completely new Ruleset 5.0 by then. In that sense, both of these bends for Camp A and Camp B might be considered do-right scores for the popular player sentiment on who deserves points, in a way that's safely not precedent-setting for the future Ruleset 5.0.

@jedjackoway and @bookworm13457 were the two main commenters that seemed to subscribe to Camp C without a personal leaning towards A or B. Hopefully your concerns were precedent-based like mine, and using A or B will be acceptable for your S6 scores (if not, I can always add in 3.1c/4.0c rulesets as well).

So in summary, this gives all leagues a Ruleset choice that fits with their preferred scoring style, and gives us a path forward to avoid this controversy in the future.

Hopefully this is a happy resolution for everyone playing this season. I'm off to count up some villagers and arrowed corpses. -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 bookworm13457, twalters, righteous like this
Thanks for all of your hard work @Nyan. I do not envy your task of counting the soldiers kill in the Battle of the Bastards. Looking forward to 1-2 more seasons of this! -bookworm13457

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2016 Jul 1 nyan, righteous, twalters, jedjackoway, 2 others like this
The above changes are now live! Check your league settings for the Ruleset 3.1b scoring option. (ended up skipping on 4.0b as it turns out hardly any leagues are on it - of the active commenters, only @Lem Lemoncake used it).

If you happen to be in a Public League and would like switch it do a different ruleset, just let me know directly on FB/email - I'll switch these with preference going to the desired Ruleset of players who have been active in the scoring discussions.

For those curious, here's are those 3.1b events (screenshots of the villagers count and every. freaking. arrow. death.):

Ramsay volleys (36 soldiers and horseys): http://fantasora.com/event/2927
Lem Lemoncloak's kill commands (32 villagers): http://fantasora.com/event/3056
Gatins 1/7th share of 32 villager kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3062
Qyburn 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3067
Cersei 50% wildfire kills: http://fantasora.com/event/3066 -nyan

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2016 Jul 1 rajatnigam, bookworm13457, righteous, twalters like this

17:15 (+452) Cersei Lannister:

A candle burns down to ignite the cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor, creating a massive detonation that obliterates the Sept and the audience awaiting Cersei's Trial by Seven. Along with the High Sparrow, Small Council, and the Tyrell royal family, 226 other members of the audience perish as the wildfire explosion erupts through the floor of the Sept. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

I finally counted them all. Here's the wide shot! https://imgur.com/ft412aT -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
I'm keeping my arguments in the other thread for simplicity's sake. But why is this not going to Qyburn as well? -alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
There's no confirmation that Qyburn did this however we do know that Cersei did. -klov3r

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2016 Jun 28
Just saw the "inside episodes 9&10" on HBO and they stated they used 287 extras for the scene. -alexander.hilton91

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2016 Jun 29 nyan and bookworm13457 like this
Stephanie on the FB page brought this up as well - I think we'll keep the criteria as just the on-screen body count, as it's easily scorable and we won't always have this kind of behind-the-scenes info available. -nyan

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2016 Jun 29

17:30 (+4) Cersei Lannister:

Two King's Landing pedestrians are consumed in the Sept of Baelor wildfire explosion. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:31 (+76) Cersei Lannister:

38 pedestrians in the square outside the Sept of Baelor are overrun as the explosion of wildfire spills outward onto the streets of King's Landing. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

17:36 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

A King's Landing pedestrian is crushed by a bell jettisoned from the explosion at the Sept of Baelor. Two other pedestrians are also destroyed as the alley becomes engulfed in wildfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

48:52 (+20) Arya Stark:

Arya serves Walder Frey pies stuffed with meat from his own sons, Black Walder and Lothar Frey.

Walder Frey: "Where are my damn moron sons? Black Walder and Lothar promised to be here by midday."
Arya: "But they're already here, my Lord... Here, my Lord... They weren't easy to carve." (Kill of Named Character)

49:06 (+10) Arya Stark:

After serving him a meat pie cooked from his own sons, Arya slits the throat of Walder Frey. "My name is Arya Stark. I want you to know that. The last thing you're ever going to see is a Stark smiling down at you as you die." (Kill of Named Character)

Political Wins

13:02 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn lures Grand Maester Pycelle to his laboratory on false pretenses, and then sends his little birds to stab him to death. "This pains me, my lord. Whatever your faults, you do not deserve to die alone in such a cold, dark place. But sometimes before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

17:02 (+3) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel follows one of Qyburn's little birds to the King's Landing underground. There he is stabbed, but crawls to discover the hidden cache of wildfire buried beneath the Sept of Baelor. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Seems like the little birds quite deliberately led Lancel there to show him, disqualifying it from the secret discovery. -nyan

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2016 Jun 27 dopeghoti likes this
I think the little birds brought him down there to stab him, not necessarily to show him. They stabbed him in the hall, and then he somehow stumbled upon the cache of wildfire, and tried to blow it out. So I feel they are independent events. -skywalkerdude

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2016 Jun 27 nyan, righteous, alicehanners like this
I didn't think they led him their deliberately. Why would they do that? Led or not led, still discovered a 'secret', yah. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 righteous likes this
REgardless of the scoring, can I say that I thought that was tacky and terrible television. That Lancel would swerve from his mission to get Cersei because, what, he saw a little kid? Are there no little kids in KL? Then, he gets stabbed and suddenly loses use of both of his legs? Did the kid stab him in the spine and paralyze him? wat
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 nyan and righteous like this
Read this somewhere and this makes the most sense to me:

The little bird was spying on the trial and was running away to give information to Cersei about what had happened. He happened to be followed by Lancel, so the little bird hid, stabbed Lancel when he had the chance, and then took off. I think it should count as a secret discovery -wynnch

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2016 Jun 29

17:14 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn's "More. Much more." report to Cersei in S6E8 is revealed to be his discovery of the barrels of wildfire buried beneath King's Landing, as Lancel Lannister discovers a cache set to trigger an explosion during the Trial by Seven at the Sept of Baelor. (Secret Discovery)

17:18 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei destroys the Sept of Baelor in an explosion of wildfire, killing most of the Tyrell royal family and the King's Small Council. (Act of Betrayal)

Eh, really? She all but declared herself accountable to no one when talking to Grandma Tyrell.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28
One of the conditions of her release from imprisonment was that she would stand trial later. Though she swore that she would she decided to skip her court date to watch some fireworks. -jimwangerin

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2016 Jun 28
It seemed like Cersei and the Small Council had reached a sort of detente when we last left off, after they agreed on Jaime's plan to march the Tyrell army in. Maybe they didn't trust her 100%, but certainly none of them expected she would outright murder them. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin likes this

18:22 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes Septa Unella prisoner, tying her down to a table as she tortures her. "Confess. It felt good. Beating me, starving me, frightening me, humiliating me. You didn't do it because you cared about my atonement. You did it because it felt good. ... I killed your High Sparrow, and all his little sparrows ... because it felt good to watch them burn. It felt good to imagine their shock and their pain. No thought has ever given me greater joy." (New Follower/Prisoner)

35:33 (+3) Jon Snow:

After Davos reveals that Melisandre had burned Princess Shireen at the stake and asks permission to execute her, Jon Snow elects the middle route and excommunicates her from the North. "Ride south today. If you return to the North, I'll have you hanged as a murderer." (Executive Decision)

43:11 (+3) Daario Naharis :

Daario reluctantly accepts his assignment to be left behind in Essos as ruler of Meereen.
Daario: "You'll get that throne you want so badly, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness. I pity the lords of Westeros. They have no idea what's coming for them." (New Title)

59:43 (+9) Jon Snow:

The Northern Lords Madnerly, Glover, Cerwyn declare their allegiance for Jon Snow as the King in the North.

Lord Wyman Manderly: "Lady Mormont speaks harshly, and truly ... I didn't think we'd find another king in my lifetime. I didn't commit my men to your cause, 'cause I didn't want more Manderly's dying for nothing. But I was wrong. Jon Snow avenged the Red Wedding. He is the White Wolf. The King in the North."

Lord Robett Glover: "I did not fight beside you on the field and I will regret that until my dying day. A man can only admit when he was wrong and ask forgiveness ... There will be more fights to come. House Glover will stand behind House Stark as we have for a thousand years. And I will stand behind Jon Snow. The King in the North!" (New Follower/Prisoner)

61:13 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon gains the allegiance of Lord Yohn Royce of the Vale, as he and the Northern lords declare Jon as King in the North. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Lord Royce is in the hall and can be seen drawing his sword along with the others. He doesn't have his own speech moment like the other Northern lords, and it's odd to imagine he would just drop his allegiance to Robin Arryn like that, which makes the score somewhat debatable. -nyan

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2016 Jun 28
Dunno how it works, but LF did mention the vale is now sworn to Stark? -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28
Yeah, Baelish does say "I've declared for House Stark, for all to hear." So, I think Jon should definitely get points for his new followers from the Vale -cfitzgerald

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2016 Jun 28

61:17 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth rises with the other Northern lords in declaring their allegiance to Jon Snow as the King in the North. (New Follower/Prisoner)

61:25 (+3) Jon Snow:

After Lyanna Mormont's rousing speech, the Northern lords declare for Jon Snow as the new King in the North.

Lyanna Mormont: "But House Mormont remembers. The North remembers. We know no king but the King in the North whose name is Stark. I don't care if he's a bastard. Ned Stark's blood runs through his veins. He's my king from this day until his last day." (New Title)

63:11 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn: "I now proclaim Cersei of the House Lannister, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms. Long may she reign." (New Title)

63:33 (+3) Qyburn:

At Cersei Lannister's coronation to the Iron Throne, Qyburn wears the pin to signify his new title as Hand of the Queen. (New Title)

submitted by twalters (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "She doesn't want me, she wants your golden fingers up her twat." (Funny Line)

submitted by axhandle (approved!)

21:10 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Septa Unella: "This is Ser Gregor Clegane. He's quiet, too. Your Gods have forsaken you. This is your god now."
(Threat)

Is this really a threat, she's kinda just telling her whats up, not threatening something will happen if something else happens. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 28 alicehanners likes this
Just 'cause it's flowery doesn't make this a good threat.
-alicehanners

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin and jedjackoway like this
If I was strapped to a board, and Cersei introduced her giant of a bodyguard to me as my "new god", I'd feel pretty threatened. -marcelcdn

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2016 Jun 28 nyan, bookworm13457, wynnch, kayeexau like this
I feel threatened by a lot of things all the time. Doesn't mean they threatened me. -xdwxrd

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2016 Jun 29

21:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

as she locks Septa Unella in with Gregor Clegane: "Shame. Shame. Shame." (Witty Insult)

23:47 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime, after a Frey serving girl gives him the eye: "You don't even have to do anything, do you?" (Funny Line)

24:07 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime Lannister: "Those two have their eyes on you."
Bronn: "They have their eyes on *you*, cunt."
Jaime: "Not my type."
Bronn: "Not blonde enough?" (Witty Insult)

38:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Sansa: "A raven came from the Citadel. A white raven. Winter is here."
Jon: "Well, father always promised." (Funny Line)

submitted by cfitzgerald (approved!)

Under which category would this fall though? -Laxis

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2016 Jun 28
A funny line. They both kind of chuckle at it and I know I smiled, so I think it should count -cfitzgerald

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2016 Jun 28
Definitely funny line. In the comedy world this is what's called a "callback" where you reference an earlier joke, in this case the earlier joke was "Winter is Coming." -mg.flanigan11

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2016 Jun 28 alexanderdropkin and nyan like this

Glasses of Wine Consumed

17:51 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks as she watches the wildfire explosion engulf the Sept of Baelor from the safety of her chambers in the Red Keep. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

23:54 (+5) Bronn:

Bronn drinks at the Frey-Lannister feast celebrating the retaking of Riverrun. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

43:32 (+5) Daario Naharis :

Daario takes a drink after accepting his assignment to stay behind in Meereen. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

17:17 (+10) Lancel Lannister:

Lancel Lannister is lured into the King's Landing underground where he is stabbed by one of Qyburn's little birds. Finding a cache of wildfire, he is too late to stop the candles from burning down and igniting it, engulfing him in the explosion. (Death)

17:27 (+10) Margaery Tyrell:

Margaery Tyrell is engulfed as the wildfire explosion rips through the Sept of Baelor, destroying the entire section of King's Landing and killing all those inside. (Death)

+1 for Osha, +1 for Ramsay Bolton, +1 for Olly, +1 for Leaf, +1 for Trystane Martell, +1 for Khal Moro

Special

10:26 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours herself a glass of wine while observing the events at the Sept of Baelor from afar. (Special)

18:15 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out her glass of wine over Septa Unella's face as she is bound to a table. "Confess." (Special)

18:32 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

After emptying her glass, Cersei returns to pour out an entire pitcher of wine over Septa Unella's face as she tortures her. (Special)

52:02 (+3) Jon Snow:

Petyr Baelish: "Who should the North rally behind? A trueborn daughter of Ned and Catelyn Stark born here at Winterfell? Or a motherless bastard born in the south?" (Special)

59:17 (+3) Jon Snow:

Lyanna Mormont: "I don't care if he's a bastard. Ned Stark's blood runs through his veins." (Special)

©
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