Matchup: Prodigal Snew vs Joffrey was an Inside Job for Ep 2

Prodigal Snew (judi.smolker)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Special
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#19	22	5	6	0	5	6
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#7	11	0	3	3	5	0
Davos Seaworth Formerly Hand of the King to Stannis Baratheon, Davos now advises Jon Snow. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#18	6	0	3	3	0	0
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#6	3	0	0	3	0	0
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#30	3	0	0	3	0	0
Jaqen H'ghar The leader of the Faceless Men of Braavos, and a skilled assassin. He trains Arya to become an assassin in the House of Black and White, although she later leaves his training to return to Westeros.	#43	0	0	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover, but has been left behind in Meereen to govern the city.	#31	0	0	0	0	0	0
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although he is easily manipualted by Lord Petyr Baelish, who serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#42	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		45	5	12	12	10	6

Joffrey was an Inside Job (righteous)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Wine	Special
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#29	11	0	3	5	3
Qyburn The new Master of Whispers in King's Landing, loyally serving Queen Cersei Lannister. A disgraced former Maester, he engages in many scientific experiments in his dungeon lab	#20	3	0	0	0	3
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#5	3	3	0	0	0
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#44	0	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#41	0	0	0	0	0
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and past, and has the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. After having encountered the Three-Eyed Raven and the Night King in the far north, he now flees back south to the Wall.	#8	0	0	0	0	0
Tormund Giantsbane Formerly a lieutenant of Mance Rayder, the King beyond the Wall, Tormund is now the de facto leader of the Wildlings and a reasoned voice in rallying them behind the cause of Jon Snow.	#17	0	0	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#32	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		17	3	3	5	6

Kills

33:54 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell plies off the infected Greyscale tissue from Jorah's chest, with all the gentleness of a spoon digging through hot pie. (Major Injury of Named Character)

28 more comments - see full thread

You referenced Tyrion's scar which is tiny compared to that of a burn victim. So even if we made the criteria: Tyrion's scar or larger, I think we would still see quite a few injuries that might have otherwise been considered minor now being considered major.

Also real life burn victims don't have access to the medical ointments that Samwell is applying to Jorah, for all we know Jorah could come out of this looking like nothing happened. And I can assure you if that's the case I will definitely be arguing for these points to be removed retroactively. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
Is anyone else having trouble with trades mine won't allow accept ion, rejection, or counter
-talindsey

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2017 Jul 28
@ssantise admittedly they've minimized Tyrion's scar in subsequent seasons. If you recall back to S2 they made a big thing about having bandaged up his entire face and was worried that Shae wouldn't love him anymore. I do think that if Tyrion recovers from the battle, has a cosmetic scar but they don't really make a big thing about it, it wouldn't be a major injury. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya encounters Nymeria in the forest, where she leads her own pack of wolves. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

submitted by ssantise (approved!)

7 more comments - see full thread

Except the wolves left her... -craigdietz20

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2017 Jul 26
Technically, it's Nymeria's army of wolves, not Arya, as evidenced by Nymeria not choosing to go with her. -WampaLord

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2017 Jul 26
No one is saying that the wolves are Arya's. The wolves are Nymeria's army. Due to Arya's special she gets points whenever Nymeria gets points, regardless where Nymeria is or what she's doing. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 26 alicehanners and nyan like this

0:00 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Davos suggests that Daenerys's dragons will be a powerful asset against the fight against the wights, and suggests allying with her, despite Sansa's protests. Ultimately, Jon decides to personally travel to Dragonstone to meet with Daenerys, citing Davos' arguments in his appeal to the Northern Lords.

"What breathes fire?" ... "But if the army of the dead makes it past the wall, do we have enough men to fight them?"

(Convincing Argument)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

30:55 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell sneaks into Jorah's room to try an experimental Greyscale treatment on him, despite Archmaester Ebrose's forbidding him to do so. (Executive Decision)

12 more comments - see full thread

a key component of an executive decision is that the decision is made to someone who you have power over. it cant be 'Executive' without that power dynamic. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24 nyan likes this
'Naughty' points? -xdwxrd

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise I would not necessarily hold that followers and decisions are intertwined. Samwell is not directly a follower of the Archmaester, however the Archmaester is still making Citadel-wide rules for all Maesters (and Maesters-in-training), which Samwell must obey as part of the order. Just like a student is not necesarily a follower of a principal, but the principal can still make school-wide decisions that affect all the students. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

38:07 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell's letter is the final straw that convinces Jon Snow to ally with Daenerys Targaryen.

"This message was sent to me by Samwell Tarly. He was my brother at the Night's Watch. A man I trust as much as anyone in this world. He's discovered proof that Dragonstone sits on a mountain of dragonglass." (Convincing Argument)

14 more comments - see full thread

I don't like the idea of tweaking the rulebook constantly so that everyone can get as many points of possible. I think its important to have a concrete set of rules that we can all rely on. I agree that there must be room for changes as the show evolves but I feel there should be a bit more formality around making substantial changes to the rulebook. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
@hindsight44 one definition of the word argument is a two-way debate that involves dialogue. but a "convincing argument" is just a one-way statement. if people exchange convincing arguments, that entire dialogue can be considered an argument. if an attorney presents an argument at a case, they are the only ones speaking, until the other side present their argument(s). if someone writes a critical essay (or like in this case, a letter), they are making a single argument to persuade the reader of something. these are all one-way arguments -hkeseyan

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise and @hkeseyan, basically you are both on the sides that I'm trying to balance when refining the scorekeeping. As @ssantise says, for consistency and fairness, the rules shouldn't change drastically. And definitely not for reasons like "we want there to be as many scores as possible". But as @hkeseyan and I'm sure lots of people realized, there are lots of areas to improve on the scoring rules, and that's especially true since the original rules were just what I could think of on my own when I started the game - each year lots of players are bringing in new ideas and are continually making the game better, and we still haven't quite reached the point where everything if fully stabilized.

For this convincing argument case, I think @hkeseyan gets at a better spirit of the rules for scoring, which isn't strictly about the decision by a character being reversed, but simply a character effectively convincing another to go with their plan of action (but with some real effort needed to convince, not simply "Hey man you wanna kill some Lannisters? Sure let's do it.").

In hindsight it was a mistake on my part to word it concretely around a decision being already made - I had been thinking too narrowly about examples like Robert and his Small Council, and it doesn't cover things like a brooding, indecisive Jon even though that was the intention.

So given that, I'll change that rulebook line to the following:

A character can be "convinced" only after they had initially decided in the opposite decision, or shown some resistance or indecision to the arguments.

Definitely it's not taken lightly and I understand each of these changes affects the scoring expectations negatively. For the most part I hope all of these tweaks are getting closer in line with the spirit of what deserves scoring. And I believe, is not inconsistent with what we've scored before (if anyone is finding examples of rejected scores because a character was simply indecisive vs. fully decided in the opposite direction, let me know. But otherwise I think this is the first time it's come up.) -nyan

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2017 Jul 31 ssantise likes this

41:39 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa is given command of Winterfell as Jon travels to meet with Daenerys Targaryen. "You are my sister. You're the only Stark in Winterfell. Until I return, the North is yours." (New Title)

7 more comments - see full thread

its not a promotion if when jon comes back she is going to be right back where she was before, if hypothetically jon was to die on his way to dragonstone then yes sansa should be rewarded the points but since it is known that jon remains the king in the north upon his return then sansa shouldnt be rewarded points for being a stand-in. -as38

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2017 Jul 24
Edd Tolett got points last year as Interim LC. Sansa is Interim Warden of the North. Also these positions do exist in government. If the president is incapactated the Vice President takes over till the president can resume his office.

Sansa has no idea she is Jons 'vice' warden (she asks him angrily WHO will rule while hes gone because even she doesnt know.) So when Jon promotes her its new to her as well. Until this point Jon had not assigned a person to rule in the times when he couldnt. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24
Interim or acting titles will count. It's definitely new power for Sansa. Possibly this is better scored as "New Castle", as she's been given command of Winterfell? -nyan

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2017 Jul 24

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Arya Stark:

Hot Pie: "You've been making pies?"
Arya: "One or two." (in reference to her Frey pies) (Funny Line)

submitted by ssantise (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Davos' comments on the letter from Tyrion: "Sounds like a charmer. Casual mention of a Dothraki horde, a legion of Unsullied, and 3 dragons - a bit less charming." (Funny Line)

submitted by pacelli929 (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

"I'm a Tarly. That name means something. We're not oathbreakers. We're not schemers. We don't stab our rivals in the back or cut their throats at weddings." (Witty Insult)

submitted by peggypcwu (approved!)

13:42 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Randyll Tarly: "Ser Jaime, I believe you know my son."
Jaime: "Rickon, isn't it?"
Dickon: "Dickon."
Jaime: "That's it." (walks past Dickon to speak with Randyll) (Funny Line)

49:42 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

to Theon, as she gets between Yara's legs: "Why are you standing all the way over there then? The foreign invasion is underway." (Funny Line)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

31:39 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell takes a hearty swig of the rum he gives to Jorah, before attempting the Greyscale surgery. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

35:49 (+5) Arya Stark:

Arya goes for the ale after Hot Pie probes further into what she's been up to. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

48:30 (+5) Ellaria Sand:

Ellaria tries out the beverages stocked by the Greyjoy fleet. "How can you drink this piss? When we reach Sunspear I'll treat you to a Dornish Red, the best in the world." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

after this doesn't she also request for Theon to pour her more? doesn't that count as another wine point? -ssleppy

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2017 Jul 24
Just Kidding! I was linking that thought to the special for Cercei requesting a glass be poured. Disregard!! -ssleppy

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2017 Jul 24
Anyone getting a refill counts as a new glass (if they consume any after the top-off), AFAIK. -dopeghoti

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2017 Jul 24
Ellaria gets distracted after getting her refill and never even drinks it. Another L for Theon. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24

Special

19:17 (+3) Qyburn:

Qyburn presents a high-powered dragon-killing ballista to Cersei. "Apparently, one of Daenerys' dragons was wounded by spears in the fighting pits of Meereen. If they can be wounded, they can be killed." (Special)

20:18 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

to Tyrion: "My greatest regret is that Oberyn died fighting for you." (Special)

29:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell mentions that he has potentially found a treatment option for Jorah Mormont's greyscale in a book. "I found the procedure in a study of rare diseases by Archmaester Pylos". (Special)

31:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell opens up Archmaester Pylos' tome on Rare Diseases, which contains the instructions for the Greyscale treatment he is to perform on Jorah. (Special)

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