Matchup: Impin' Ain't Easy vs Drinking and Lust for Ep 3

I drink and I know things

Impin' Ain't Easy (tylershields716)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#2	15	3	6	6
Davos Seaworth Formerly Hand of the King to Stannis Baratheon, Davos now advises Jon Snow. He is often at odds with the Red Priestess Melisandre.	#15	6	0	3	3
Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#31	0	0	0	0
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own. After her uncle Euron Greyjoy seizes control of the Iron Islands, she flees with Theon and her loyal troops to ally with Daenerys Targaryen, whose dragons and armies sail west to retake Westeros.	#18	0	0	0	0
Tyene Sand The youngest of Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She uses daggers and poisons as her weapons.	#43	0	0	0	0
Meera Reed The eldest child of Howland Reed, bannerman to the Starks. She assists Bran in his journeys north of the Wall and is the only other surviving member of his party.	#34	0	0	0	0
Totals		21	3	9	9

Drinking and Lust (daniel.e.gallagher1)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#3	76	5	15	3	10	40	3
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#35	19	5	0	9	5	0	0
Syrio Forel Arya's swordfighting teacher. He is a master swordfighter, and a former First Sword of Braavos. His whereabouts are unknown after he helps Arya escape capture by Lannister soldiers.	#46	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#19	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#14	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#30	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		95	10	15	12	15	40	3

Kills

0:00 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei plants a kiss on Tyene Sand, poisoning her with the Long Farewell - the same poison used by Ellaria Sand to kill Myrcella Baratheon. (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

22 more comments - see full thread

Who seems satisfied??? This is baffling to me. You're awarding death points for someone who may not be dead. What happens if Tyene is still alive next episode and does something? No death points without confirmed death. -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 3 righteous likes this
@alicehanners there are no death points yet. these are major injury points for the poison which will be upgraded to 10 total for kill points if the poison kills her (to prevent a 5+10 double dip for Cersei) and then 5 to Tyene when she dies -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3 nyan likes this
Doesn't make sense to give death points for this, but it's certainly major injury. -righteous

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2017 Aug 8

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

Political Wins

22:34 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

Euron Greyjoy presents his gift to Cersei - the captured Ellaria and Tyene Sand. (New Follower/Prisoner)

23:28 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei accepts Euron Greyjoy's proposal of an alliance, appointing him at the head of her navy. (New Follower/Prisoner)

30:40 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei casually reveals her night of incest with Jaime in her chambers as she opens the door for one of her handmaidens.

Jaime: "What are you doing? No one can see us like this."
Cersei: "I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, I'll do as I please." (Executive Decision)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

I'm not sure that this really qualifies as a "major decision"? Since we know the handmaiden is is not going to do anything. But it is Cersei flexing her political muscle to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Interprered this as two things. First was her decision that she is longer hiding their incest
Second that between her and Jaime she is the one wearing the proverbial pants. Also because this is within a sex scene if it does receive points it should get the 2x multiplier. I can see both sides of this argument however. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 1
It doesn't seem very 'executive' at this point. -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1
I agree that this does deserved points for an Executive Decision, her openly revealing her incestual relationship is a Major Decision. However Cersie definitely should not be getting 2X multiplier for non-sexual acts. She already is probably going to be the highest scoring character in the game and if shes going to be more open about her relationship with Jamie she definitely cannot be getting 2X for everything she does.

I think we need clarification on the Cersie's special. The rule currently reads: "2x multiplier for sex scenes involving incest" although I believe it has the same meaning, I think it should be refined to read "2x multiplier for sexual ACTS involving incest". -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise thats a good clarification, I'll change the text. The intention was definitely for the sex act, not everything happening in the scenes -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

33:09 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei convinces the Iron Bank against investing in Daenerys Targaryen, and to give her an extension on her loan instead: "From what I gather, she considers herself more of a revolutionary than a monarch. In your experience, how do bankers usually fare with revolutionaries? The Lannisters owe the Iron Bank quite a lot of money, but Lannisters always pay their debts. Do former slaves or Dothraki or dragons?"

Tycho Nestoris: "Your father's daughter, indeed." (Convincing Argument)

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

9:39 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Missandei: "You stand in the presence of Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, rightful heir to the Iron Throne, rightful Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Mother of Dragons, the Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, the Breaker of Chains."
Davos: "This is Jon Snow." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

28:34 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Ellaria Sand: "Your daughter will die here in this cell, and you will be here watching when she does. You'll be here the rest of your days. If you refuse to eat, we'll force food down your throat. You will live to watch your daughter rot. To watch that beautiful face collapse - to bone and dust. All the while contemplating the choices you've made.

Make sure the guards change the torches every few hours. I don't want her to miss a thing." (Threat)

7 more comments - see full thread

@ssleppy Cersei acquires the prisoner points here: http://fantasora.com/event/3296 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 ssleppy likes this
I thought it wasn't considered a threat if they do the thing they are threatening? -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 3
I don't recall anything against carrying out the threat, just that the action itself shouldn't purely make the threat threatening, it should be the line having interesting wording. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

28:15 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei downs a shot of Long Farewell antidote after poisoning Tyene Sand with a kiss. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

31:24 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks while discussing the Iron Throne's debt payments with Tycho Nestoris, a representative of the Iron Bank. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

30:30 (+40) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei throws off the bed sheets to reveal herself in the morning after a night with Jaime. (Act of Intercourse)

My math on this is 40 because of the 2x special multiplier. Thoughts? -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and colin.heinke like this
Should be 40, and Jaime's should be 20. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan, paolarodelas, taylorreneegoodrich like this
Yep, forgot to apply the multiplier, thanks guys! Damn, this ratchets their scores up really high, though to be fair this is the first nude sex scene I can recall from Cersei in a long while (ever?) -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 taylorreneegoodrich likes this

Special

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

4:24 (+3) Davos Seaworth:

Tyrion Lannister greets Ser Davos on his arrival to Dragonstone: "Ah, the Onion Knight" (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

31:03 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out a glass of wine for her Braavosi visitor, Tycho Nestoris of the Iron Bank. (Special)

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