Matchup: Drinking and Lust vs Hold The Door for Ep 5

I drink and I know things

Drinking and Lust (daniel.e.gallagher1)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#19	18	0	3	15	0
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#3	15	0	12	3	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#35	10	5	0	0	5
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#14	0	0	0	0	0
Syrio Forel Arya's swordfighting teacher. He is a master swordfighter, and a former First Sword of Braavos. His whereabouts are unknown after he helps Arya escape capture by Lannister soldiers.	#46	0	0	0	0	0
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#30	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		43	5	15	18	5

Hold The Door (craig.michael.barnes)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Wine	Special
Tyrion Lannister Quick to wit and even quicker to the drink, Tyrion is the youngest of three Lannister children. After being exiled by his sister Cersei, he has joined with Daenerys Targaryen, serving as her Hand of the Queen and most trusted adviser.	#5	34	6	15	10	3
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#12	12	12	0	0	0
Jaqen H'ghar The leader of the Faceless Men of Braavos, and a skilled assassin. He trains Arya to become an assassin in the House of Black and White, although she later leaves his training to return to Westeros.	#28	0	0	0	0	0
Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.	#37	0	0	0	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#21	0	0	0	0	0
Ed Sheeran	#44	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		46	18	15	10	3

Kills

12:57 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime confirms the death of Olenna Tyrell from the poisoned wine she takes after the Tyrell defeat at Highgarden. "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died." (Kill of Named Character (finished off from previously fatal injury))

9 more comments - see full thread

thanks! -Laxis

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2017 Aug 25
did you find anything? it would make a few points differences for our roto standings (my team probably won't come close to victory anyway, but other teams would lose points in relation too) -Laxis

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2017 Aug 28
Hey @Laxis, really sorry but don't think I'll be able to get to it this week - still on a hectic travel schedule and barely have enough hours of internet access to do the scoring. It's on my list, but may come the week after. Sorry =[ -nyan

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2017 Aug 29

Political Wins

11:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

With the delivery of the Tyrell gold and a repayment of debts to the Iron Bank, Cersei secures a new loan: "We have the Tyrell gold, we have the Iron Bank behind us. We can buy mercenaries." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

12:57 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime explains to Cersei that it was Olenna Tyrell who had assassinated Joffrey, not Tyrion.

Jaime: "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died."
Cersei: "And this was before or after she drank the poison you so kindly provided her?"
Jaime: "After."
Cersei: "And you believed her?"
Jaime: "If you were Olenna, would you rather have seen your granddaughter married to Joffrey or Tommen? Which one would Margaery have been better able to control? Which one would have made Olenna the true ruler of the Seven Kingdoms? She was telling the truth." (Secret Discovery)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei rejects Jaime's plea to find a peaceful solution out of the conflict with Daenerys.

Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

same idiocy by me, Overrulibg decision. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
same principle as her oberruling jaime with Euron -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Did any decision come out of this? I'm not sure that Jaime had a proposal or that Cersei had an order at the end of the day. It was sort of an expression of sentiments, Jaime saying they can't win against dragons and Cersei saying they'll still fight on and find a way. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
Overuling doesnt mean mean you need to order anything. Her decision was to stay the course against a third parties disaproval. In a court of law a judge uses overrule so the subject can stay the course and not accept whatever arguement the lawyer is trying to present. Cersei didnt give an order or change anything at all when she Overuled Jaimes advice to meet with Euron, she simply stayed the course after overuling her generals advice. Also this was clearly not a simple tit for tat conversation, Jaime says at the beginning of the episode he has to tell Cersei how bad this is. As general of her army in his next scene he specifcally went to her to try and convince her that this is a war that they will lose. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Yeah I think that works as a light decision. Jaime didn't have a concrete solution but he was sort of proposing that they start looking for alternate, peaceful solutions and that was rejected pretty strongly. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

25:34 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

After the latest rejected plea by Jon Snow to get Daenerys to assist in the war with the White Walkers, Tyrion convinces the team on a different course to try to unite all three monarchs together:

Jon Snow: "We'll fight with the men we have. Unless you'll join us."
Daenerys: "And give the country to Cersei? As soon as I march away, she marches in."
Tyrion: "Perhaps not. Cersei thinks the Army of the Dead is nothing but a story made up by wet nurses to frighten children. What if we prove her wrong?
Jon: "I don't think she'll come see the dead at my invitation."
Tyrion: "So bring the dead to her." (Convincing Argument)

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

41:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei reveals that she is already aware of Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting.

Cersei: "Are you going to punish him?"
Jaime: "Tyrion?"
Cersei: "Bronn. He betrayed you. He set up a meeting without your knowledge or consent. Do you think anything of importance happens in this city without me knowing?" (Secret Discovery)

41:13 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

After Tyrion and Jaime's secret meeting, Cersei agrees to the truce with Daenerys while they await for Jon to return with proof of the White Walker situation.

Cersei: "I've come to believe that an accommodation with the Dragon Queen could be in our immediate interest. She has the numbers. If we want to beat her, we have to be clever. We have to fight her like Father would have." (Deals Brokered)

51:24 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger acquires the only copy of a raven letter written by Sansa while she was in King's Landing, when she was compelled by Cersei to ask Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Secret Discovery)

Ehhh. :| Secret? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 16
He already knew about this, how else would he ask for that specific letter? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 16
It does fall a little bit between Secret and acquiring a valuable item, like a weapon. He knows of the existence of the letter, but now he wields that information on concrete form which he can use to blackmail Sansa, influence the Northern lords, or sow the seeds of doubt to Arya. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
it's not a secret but it is a Secret Discovery... the letter was clearly not known to exist among others in Winterfell. -pacelli929

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2017 Aug 17 nyan likes this
Yeah, it's not a secret discovery for 'this' character though. He's not discovering anything, why is he getting points for it. -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 17
I could change it to "loot" which was a new subcategory added in another discussion about Cersei/Tycho acquiring the Tyrell gold and securing a new Iron Bank loan. I think people could agree it is like a New Weapon, but an informational one rather than a physical one? In any case the scores are the same. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 jedjackoway likes this

51:24 (+6) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger has been using Maester Wolkan to dig through the Winterfell archives, portraying it as a command by Sansa Stark.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Act of Betrayal)

53:54 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger snoops from the shadows, having observed Arya Stark tracking him and breaking into his room. (Secret Discovery)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime Lannister: "[Olenna's] dead, like her son, her grandchildren, her whole house. And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Witty Insult)

24:16 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "Who's that (raven letter) for?"
Varys: "Jon Snow."
Tyrion: "Did you read it?"
Varys: "It's a sealed scroll for the King in the North."
...
Tyrion: "What's it say?" (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

32:52 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Jaime: "I once told Bronn that if I ever saw you again, I'd cut you in half."
Tyrion: "...it'll take you a while with a sparring sword." (Funny Line)

39:11 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

First Gold Cloak: "That dwarf..."
Second Gold Cloak: "Where'd you get that scar?"
Tyrion: "Fish hook. Some men you just can't teach." (Funny Line)

39:40 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Davos introduces Tyrion to Gendry, who has just smashed in the heads of two investigating Gold Cloaks.

Davos: "This is Gendry."
Tyrion: "He'll do." (Funny Line)

44:55 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

to Jorah Mormont: "You may not believe it, but I've missed you, Mormont. Nobody glowers quite like you. Not even Grey Worm." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

23:03 (+5) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion drinks while discussing the burning of the Tarlys with Varys. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

24:11 (+5) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion drinks from the refill after Varys finishes off the cup of wine he was originally drinking. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Deaths

12:57 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime confirms the death of Olenna Tyrell from the poisoned wine she takes after the Tyrell defeat at Highgarden. "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died." (Death)

Special

45:27 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion hands the sentimental slaver's coin to Jorah, reminiscing briefly on their slave days in Meereen before Mormont leaves for Eastwatch. (Special)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

The Feels

45:28 (+0) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion and Jorah share a brief reunion before Jorah sails off to the Wall on Jon's expedition to kidnap a wight..

Tyrion: "This is the coin the slaver gave me when I suggested he free us and pay us, remember?"
Jorah: "It was supposed to last us the rest of our lives."
Tyrion: "Take it with you. But bring it back. Our Queen needs you." (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

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