Matchup: The Stallion who will mount the league. vs Insane in the Clegane for Ep 3

A Team has No Name

The Stallion who will mount the league. (rblaine.morris)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Wine	Sex	Special
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#7	52	0	21	5	20	6
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#27	30	24	6	0	0	0
Archmaester Ebrose Archmaester at the Citadel in Oldtown, where new Maesters are trained.	#34	12	0	0	0	0	12
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#14	0	0	0	0	0	0
Qhono A Dothraki bloodrider, he swears allegiance to Daenerys after she burns all of the other Khals alive in Dosh Khaleen.	#47	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		94	24	27	5	20	18

Insane in the Clegane (baintonw)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine
Tyrion Lannister Quick to wit and even quicker to the drink, Tyrion is the youngest of three Lannister children. After being exiled by his sister Cersei, he has joined with Daenerys Targaryen, serving as her Hand of the Queen and most trusted adviser.	#6	21	0	6	15	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#15	19	5	0	9	5
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#35	0	0	0	0	0
Gendry A bastard son of Robert Baratheon, although this fact is not widely known (even to Gendry himself). After being captured by Melisandre, he is freed by Ser Davos and escaped Dragonstone by rowboat. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but he will likely emerge at some point with the swolest arms Westeros has ever seen.	#26	0	0	0	0	0
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#46	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		40	5	6	24	5

Kills

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

53:50 (+2) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm slits the throat of a Lannister guard, after sneaking past the walls of Casterly Rock via the sewer tunnels. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

It is a little difficult to differentiate Grey Worm from the rest of the Unsullied, but he has a badge with three dragons on the clavicle of his armor which seems to be unique to him, which was used to identify him in the battle scenes: http://imgur.com/a/BGogM

This first kill is the only ambiguous one as the clavicle piece is not visible, but it seems to credibly be him based on the parts of face that are visible. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
The shield kills that are being counting aren't confirmed kills. Minor injuries at best. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
which is 8 of his point this episode. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
In the rulebook for Kills.IV we have a rule for: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes."

It's just a lot easier to count, else there are a lot of nitpicky debates that some strike is on a non-fatal region, or the shield bash didn't look strong enough, etc. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

54:22 (+8) Grey Worm :

Leading the Unsullied, Grey Worm stabs two Lannister soldiers while charging the stairs, and smashes two more with his shield. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:29 (+14) Grey Worm :

At the top of the stairs, Grey Worm kills 7 Lannister soldiers, throwing his spear to impale the last one against a door. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After seizing Highgarden, the defeated Olenna Tyrell sits in her prisoner as a prisoner of Jaime Lannister. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

36:48 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

After Jon Snow resigns himself to giving up on an alliance with Daenerys and returning to the North empty-handed, Tyrion convinces him to stay and find a compromise deal, leading him to ask for the dragonglass.

Tyrion: "After a single meeting, it's not a reasonable thing to ask. So, do you have anything reasonable to ask?"
Jon: "What do you mean?"
Tyrion: "Maybe you are a Northern fool. I'm asking if there's something I can do to help you." (Convincing Argument)

38:53 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion convinces Daenerys to give Jon Snow the dragonglass as a gesture of good faith with the North. "Let him mine the Dragonglass. If he's wrong, it's worthless. You didn't even know it was here. It's nothing to you. Give him something by giving him nothing. Take a step toward a more productive relationship with a possible ally." (Convincing Argument)

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Victorious Battle)

Greywoem may have won the battle, but isn't it Danaerys who actually wins the castle? -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Did he win the castle? Or did Euron trap him in the castle? -Th3 JaBBeRWoCK

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2017 Aug 1
I think we'll count it even as a temporary or pyrrhic victory. As for Dany, in general it feels like this is a point for the general who leads the battle, but it can transfer to Daenerys once she gets her boots on the ground, or if we get a line from Grey Worm like "the castle is yours, your Grace." -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
-Elon

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2017 Aug 2
Battle of the Bastards did result in Battle Victory points for Ramsay (http://fantasora.com/event/2892). In the rulebook it states that large battles can be divided up and have multiple victory points awarded for each segment. Think of it like an Assault map for a game like Battlefield or TF2, there are intermediate points for each objective taken. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime's offer to Randyll Tarly to rebel against the Tyrells appears to have been accepted, as the Tarly's ride with the Lannister army on the assault on Highgarden. (Convincing Argument)

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Randyll Tarly allies with the Lannisters, taking Jaime Lannister's offer to become Warden of the South and marching with the Lannister army against the Tyrells. (New Follower/Prisoner)

See - if Jaime recruiting a new follower for Cersei counts for her, and Euron's fleet's points are his, shouldn't any of Dany's forces' points count for her as well? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
Or: This should probably bis Jaime's points :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
This one is a bit nebulous. Tarly has no interaction with Cersei and is arguably a lieutenant to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Agree, here I think Jaime should get the point not Cercei, we clearly see him with bronn following the "leader" jaime for this battle.
And I don't think Dany should get the points for her forces -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1 alexanderdropkin and playabills like this

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Victorious Battle)

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

58:31 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is in possession of the Valyrian steel sword, Widow's Wail. "How will you do it? With that sword? That was Joffrey's sword, wasn't it? Not that he ever used it. What did he call it?" Jaime: "Widow's Wail." (New Weapon)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

In her dying moments, Olenna Tyrell reveals to Jaime that she was Joffrey's killer.

"I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes bloodred, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me ... You see, I had never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Per the previous discussion about Edd, we were considering elimination of the "willingly told" criteria and instead allowing scores if they are the only person to know the secret outside of the secret holder: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

This one seems to fit a similar criteria to Edd's discovery of Bran. Though it could be argued the identity of Joffrey's killer is irrelevant at this point? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I think that even if it is "willingly told", it is an important discovery for Jaime and only a few people know (maybe dead? Margeary <3). So the question is more about, Is this really a secret important for the plot and the story. But for Jaime it is. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1
It is definitely a secret discovery. And especially for Jaime it is crucial information because now his beloved brother who he freed and so forth is not guilty of the one crime that Jaime may not have ever been able to forgive him. Plus: Now Cersei's main legitimization for wanting Tyrion dead has to switch from regicide/nephicide to treason or whatever they call it :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and emilien.raggi like this
Ooh @Lem very good points about the implications to Tyrion! -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I personally like the "willingly told" criteria of the rule. A huge part of everything we see on screen is a secret in one way or another to other character's in the show. Without the "willingly told" clause this rule could start to run away with points. For example every named character in winterfell would have just gotten points for finding out that Bran is still alive, do we really want 10+ characters getting points for finding out a secret each episode? -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise that was the initial reason for the "willingly told" criteria, definitely something like Bran coming to Winterfell is now just new information, not a valuable secret. The new idea is the criteria that someone is the first/only person to know of a secret, since that gives them exclusive power to act on that information. That would seem to fit Jaime's situation (he could exonerate Sansa and Tyrion with this info). -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

calling back to Bronn's quote about the Eyrie: "Give me ten good men, and I'll impregnate the bitch" (Funny Line)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

34:07 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

to Jon Snow: "I came down here to brood over my failure to predict the Greyjoy attack. You're making it difficult. You look a lot better brooding than I do. You make me feel like I'm failing at brooding over failing." (Funny Line)

35:40 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

"People's minds aren't made for problems that large. White Walkers, the Night King, Army of the Dead. It's almost a relief to confront a comfortable, familiar monster like my sister." (Witty Insult)

37:50 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "Apparently, it can be turned into weapons that kill white walkers and their foot soldiers. Or stop them. Destroy them. Unsure about the nomenclature." (Funny Line)

38:14 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?"
Tyrion: "I would never do that."
To you.
The reason I believe Jon Snow is because he's here. (Funny Line)

I kind of thought Daenerys deserved some credit here for calling Tyrion out, but not exactly sure how to score it. Thoughts? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 taylorreneegoodrich likes this
Seems to be closest to a witty insult, but it's not really an insult. Maybe the secret discovery of Tyrion's imposture? He has been doing this for like ever and gotten through with it for most of the time. Dany seems to be the first person to see right through him, even if in a somewhat benevolent way :) -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
its comical... most of tyrion's lines are but the entire scene is just funny I think both Dany and tyrion should split points on this. -csepulveda2885

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione likes this
I thought that this was a Dany funny line for that last bit she had. -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 hkeseyan and Lem Lemoncake like this

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

29:27 (+5) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime takes a drink in Cersei's chambers as we all try to collectively erase the imagery of Euron sticking Cersei with the pointy end. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

30:10 (+20) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime gets his trousers dropped as Cersei is feeling extra thirsty after another exhilarating session of dungeon torturing her enemies. (Act of Intercourse)

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@hindsight44 I made a clarification here after @ssantise brought it up, the intention was to double the acts but not everything related to the scene: http://fantasora.com/event/3308

The scoring should be about what the viewers see. So they get credit for the on-screen butts and nudity. Presumably every sex scene (even the PG ones), all the characters see all the parts so the scoring wouldn't really work that way. We also previously defined that you need to touch one of these parts to count as sex, so just seeing each other wouldn't count. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
what's the verdict on this? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3
Let's go with just a double of all the sex points (the nudity and the act), so the points remain as they are currently. It's quite powerful, but so far this is the first and only instance in 7 seasons that we got incest-related nudity out of either character. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

Special

24:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Euron asks Jaime for advice on pleasing Cersei: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

49:22 (+12) Archmaester Ebrose:

Archmaester Ebrose: "You treated him?"
Samwell Tarly: "Yes."
Ebrose: "Who told you to treat him?"
Sam: "No one."
Ebrose: "Who forbade you, or anyone, to attempt to treat him?"
Sam: "I seem to remember you."
Ebrose: "But you treated him anyway?"
Sam: "I did, yes." (Special)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

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what's the point of adding it if it's only 2 points per scene? When he's only in about 1 scene per episode anyway. -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 2
Hodor didn't have a cap. Cercei and Tyrion don't have caps on drink points. I like the idea of his new special. -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 2
So far he's scored 24pts off this Special, which leads the category but I wouldn't consider to be game-breaking. It's definitely a very good special, but still far shy of the uber powerful ones like Hodor's or Doran's. It's similar to Jon's special actually, in that he reliably gets it multiple times an episode (especially back in S1-4). -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 ssleppy and Lem Lemoncake like this

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Olenna Tyrell: "I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes blood red, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father." (Special)

Would this also be a secret discovery? -easson27

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2017 Aug 1
There's a provision that the secret can't be "willingly told" by the secret holder, but we just had a lengthy debate that points towards removing that criteria: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

With the new criteria used for Edd, it possibly counts - Jaime is the only person who knows at this point and is in a position to disseminate that information. I've created it as a submission here: http://fantasora.com/event/3344 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
Didn't you already give him points for this earlier in the thread?? -benmfink414

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2017 Aug 4

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