Matchup: The Wights vs What is Hype may never die for Ep 5

Kingsroad Banners (Public #685)

The Wights (meagan7654)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#21	18	3	15	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and has sailed to Oldtown with Samwell as he begins his Maester's training.	#37	12	3	3	0	6
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#28	5	0	0	5	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#12	3	3	0	0	0
Talla Tarly Samwell's sister.	#53	0	0	0	0	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#5	0	0	0	0	0
Ornela (Dothraki Widow from Lhazareen) A young Dothraki widow from Dosh Khaleen. She follows Daenerys Targaryen after she defeats the other Khals by burning them alive inside the Temple of Dosh Khaleen.	#60	0	0	0	0	0
Jaqen H'ghar The leader of the Faceless Men of Braavos, and a skilled assassin. He trains Arya to become an assassin in the House of Black and White, although she later leaves his training to return to Westeros.	#44	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		38	9	18	5	6

What is Hype may never die (killeymic)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#6	6	6	0
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#7	3	3	0
Sandor Clegane (The Hound) A fearsome Lannister knight, formerly known as the Hound. After being left for dead after losing a fight with Brienne of Tarth, he recovered and briefly reformed as a laborer in a nonviolent commune, but has joined with Beric Dondarrion and the Brotherhood without Banners after bandits attack and destroy the village.	#27	3	0	3
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#26	0	0	0
Euron Greyjoy The new King of the Iron Islands, after killing his brother Balon Greyjoy. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#10	0	0	0
Yara Greyjoy Theon's older sister, Yara was raised on the Iron Islands as a true Ironborn. She is a fearsome fighter and commands a longship of her own. After her uncle Euron Greyjoy seizes control of the Iron Islands, she flees with Theon and her loyal troops to ally with Daenerys Targaryen, whose dragons and armies sail west to retake Westeros.	#23	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#39	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#11	0	0	0
Totals		12	9	3

Political Wins

19:39 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King breaks Bran's warg connection to his ravens, dispersing the scouting flock sent north of the Wall. (Victorious Battle)

Fairly minor "engagement" if we can even call it that? -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech, jedjackoway, playabills like this
The rules say that these points are for within the scope of a battle. I think this will set a precedent where minor actions are considered battle wins. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 hkeseyan, jake.kmiech, craigdietz20 like this
I wouldn't extend it that far (for minor actions in battles). Rather, this was the sum of the engagement (the ravens on a scouting mission, which was repelled). If this was one shot as a part of a larger battle, I don't think it counts as a battle victory at all. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I had thought this would be under discovery of a secret in that he now knows that Bran was attempting to scout out his army -cfitzgerald

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2017 Aug 15 hindsight44, jake.kmiech, talindsey like this
I agree how is this a win for the night king. To me bran came out with the information so regardless it was a successful scouting mission . -talindsey

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2017 Aug 15
Nothing really happened. :| -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 16 jedjackoway, playabills, craigdietz20 like this

32:25 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is taken by Bronn to the dungeons beneath the Red Keep, where he finds his fugitive brother Tyrion who has arranged a meeting with him there. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

Dang, I am kind of regretting losing the "willfully told" provision. It was working as a decent catch-all to exclude a lot of stuff like this that does technically fit but we sort of know it is not a powerful secret that goes anywhere. Anyhow for consistency's sake I'll add it in, I feel like I want to do more thinking about Secrets next season. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 Lem Lemoncake likes this
damned if you do, damned if you don't -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
I think you should add the caveat that being willfully told a secret only counts if the only people who know the secret are the person telling the secret in the person being told secret. That still allows for secret discovery when it's not willingly told, but that puts an end to potential secret chains. What happens if Cersei told someone that Olenna killed Joffrey? What happens if that person tells them? Where does it end? -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15 nyan likes this
*and the person, not in the person -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

41:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting, Cersei agrees to the truce with Daenerys while they await for Jon to return with proof of the White Walker situation.

Cersei: "I've come to believe that an accommodation with the Dragon Queen could be in our immediate interest. She has the numbers. If we want to beat her, we have to be clever. We have to fight her like Father would have." (Deals Brokered)

47:25 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly learns about a secret marriage by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen recorded in a book by High Septon Maynard.

Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

7 more comments - see full thread

If Gilly gets the points, Sam should too. She has about as much use with it as he does, but they both now know it -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 16
For Sam, I'd argue that he sort of blew Gilly off to the point of not even hearing what she said. But if he brings it up again ("hey were you saying something before about a Prince Ragger?") then we could count it then?

This is why you stay an attentive listener to your girlfriends, guys. Fantasy points, think about the fantasy points. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16 xdwxrd, kevinpetsky, jake.kmiech like this
ahem -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 29

53:29 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya breaks into Littlefinger's chambers and discovers the hidden raven letter, a note from Sansa Stark while she was held captive in King's Landing, asking Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee. (Secret Discovery)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

47:58 (+3) Gilly:

Samwell Tarly, complaining about his menial scribing tasks: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!"
Gilly: "Steps. That number was the steps." (Funny Line)

56:46 (+3) Sandor Clegane (The Hound):

The Hound interrupts Beric's grand monologue.

Beric: "It doesn't matter what we think our reasons are. There's a greater purpose at work. And we serve it together, whether we know it or not. We may take the steps, but the Lord of Light-"
Hound: "For fuck's sake, will you shut your hole? Are we coming with you or not?" (Funny Line)

Deaths

10:54 (+5) Randyll Tarly:

After refusing to bend the knee, Randyll is burned to ashes by Drogon's dragonfire alongside his son Dickon.

Daenerys: "Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Death)

Special

46:52 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly recites some Maester trivia she has just learned: "Do you know how many steps there are in the Citadel? 15,782." (Special)

47:24 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly learns about annulments and a secret marriage.

Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Special)

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