Matchup: you is a dirty dirty hodor vs Make Westeros Great Again for Ep 3

The 5th year Seniors

you is a dirty dirty hodor (agmiller356)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#19	30	24	6	0	0
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#3	15	0	3	6	6
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#35	6	0	6	0	0
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#14	3	0	0	3	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#30	0	0	0	0	0
Sam (Gilly's Baby) The incestuous son of Gilly and her father Craster. He travels with Gilly as she accompanies Samwell Tarly to Oldtown.	#62	0	0	0	0	0
Tyene Sand The youngest of Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She uses daggers and poisons as her weapons.	#46	0	0	0	0	0
Aeron Greyjoy An uncle of Theon Greyjoy, who serves as a priest to the Drowned God.	#51	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		54	24	15	9	6

Make Westeros Great Again (lceverhart)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Insults	Wine	Special
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#18	19	5	9	5	0
Archmaester Ebrose Archmaester at the Citadel in Oldtown, where new Maesters are trained.	#47	12	0	0	0	12
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#34	0	0	0	0	0
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#2	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#15	0	0	0	0	0
Gendry A bastard son of Robert Baratheon, although this fact is not widely known (even to Gendry himself). After being captured by Melisandre, he is freed by Ser Davos and escaped Dragonstone by rowboat. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but he will likely emerge at some point with the swolest arms Westeros has ever seen.	#31	0	0	0	0	0
Bronze Yohn Royce Head of House Royce, bannermen to House Arryn of the Vale.	#63	0	0	0	0	0
Denys Mallister A member of the Night's Watch and commander of the Shadow Tower, located the west end of the Wall. He was a candidate to be elected for Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, though Jon Snow ultimately won the election.	#50	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		31	5	9	5	12

Kills

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

53:50 (+2) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm slits the throat of a Lannister guard, after sneaking past the walls of Casterly Rock via the sewer tunnels. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

It is a little difficult to differentiate Grey Worm from the rest of the Unsullied, but he has a badge with three dragons on the clavicle of his armor which seems to be unique to him, which was used to identify him in the battle scenes: http://imgur.com/a/BGogM

This first kill is the only ambiguous one as the clavicle piece is not visible, but it seems to credibly be him based on the parts of face that are visible. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
The shield kills that are being counting aren't confirmed kills. Minor injuries at best. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
which is 8 of his point this episode. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
In the rulebook for Kills.IV we have a rule for: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes."

It's just a lot easier to count, else there are a lot of nitpicky debates that some strike is on a non-fatal region, or the shield bash didn't look strong enough, etc. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

54:22 (+8) Grey Worm :

Leading the Unsullied, Grey Worm stabs two Lannister soldiers while charging the stairs, and smashes two more with his shield. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:29 (+14) Grey Worm :

At the top of the stairs, Grey Worm kills 7 Lannister soldiers, throwing his spear to impale the last one against a door. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Victorious Battle)

Greywoem may have won the battle, but isn't it Danaerys who actually wins the castle? -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Did he win the castle? Or did Euron trap him in the castle? -Th3 JaBBeRWoCK

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2017 Aug 1
I think we'll count it even as a temporary or pyrrhic victory. As for Dany, in general it feels like this is a point for the general who leads the battle, but it can transfer to Daenerys once she gets her boots on the ground, or if we get a line from Grey Worm like "the castle is yours, your Grace." -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
-Elon

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2017 Aug 2
Battle of the Bastards did result in Battle Victory points for Ramsay (http://fantasora.com/event/2892). In the rulebook it states that large battles can be divided up and have multiple victory points awarded for each segment. Think of it like an Assault map for a game like Battlefield or TF2, there are intermediate points for each objective taken. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly becomes Warden of the South, having accepted Jaime's previous offer to rebel against the Tyrells as he rides with the Lannister army in the attack on Highgarden. (New Title)

Assumptions made from his dialogue with Jaime in the last episode - did we even get to see Randyll Tarly this episode? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
He was at the head of the army along with Jamie and Bronn and Dickon -tommyjames81

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and playabills like this
Here's a screencap, it's Randyll, Dickon and Bronn riding in formation at the beginning of the scene when they approach Highgarden: http://i.imgur.com/GzujWNO.jpg -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
They found the blandest, goofiest actor to replace old Dickon with. Kind of sad. -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1
He's just a big oaf now -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly betrays the Tyrells, to whom he is a sworn bannerman, siding with Lannisters and marching with their army in in the attack on Highgarden. (Act of Betrayal)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Melisandre:

to Varys: "I will return, dear Spider, one last time. I have to die in this strange country... just like you." (Threat)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

10 more comments - see full thread

Tyrion refers to himself as an imp quite a few times, doesn't make it any less insulting. Being referred to as a "spider" regardless if he personally uses it does not change the negative connotations around being referred to as a spider.

I think Melissandre's line was both eloquent and masterfully stated. First she calmly patronizes him as her "Dear Spider", in direct response to his threat (which is almost enough of insult for points alone). Then she cleverly follows this by referring to Westeroes as "this strange land". Finally she finishes of her beautiful line by returning the threat to Varys, that they both must die here. If she wanted to be dull and undeserving of points she would have just said "Varys you're gonna die in Westeroes." but she didn't. -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1
i think it was a great line and a threatening one. not an insult though. i'm not denying she should get points for the line at all; i agree she should get points for it being ominous and threatening, but not that it's an insult. that's all :) -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 1
I think context is what makes this a threat. Varys directly threatens her right before she says this. Before Varys threatened her she was passive and very open with Varys. This 180 attitude was to respond a threat with another threat. We have no evidence or proof to show this was definitvley from the flames, have Mel even interepted flames since Stannis?

Also this isnt a plain direct threat like Dany saying" Betray me and i will burn you alive." If there was no wit or innuendo Mel would have simply said "Varys you will die in Westeroes." But she did use wit.If you read between the lines what she meant by this was we are equals. Mel knows Varys hates magic and all who follow it, he has a very elitist and arrogant attitude when dealing with Magical entities (specifically priests of Rhollor). So when she says 'i will die here just like you.' she is saying get off your high horse you are no better than me, this country will claim both of us . Id say that is threatening and witty enough to warrant points. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 2 nyan likes this

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Special

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

49:22 (+12) Archmaester Ebrose:

Archmaester Ebrose: "You treated him?"
Samwell Tarly: "Yes."
Ebrose: "Who told you to treat him?"
Sam: "No one."
Ebrose: "Who forbade you, or anyone, to attempt to treat him?"
Sam: "I seem to remember you."
Ebrose: "But you treated him anyway?"
Sam: "I did, yes." (Special)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

11 more comments - see full thread

what's the point of adding it if it's only 2 points per scene? When he's only in about 1 scene per episode anyway. -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 2
Hodor didn't have a cap. Cercei and Tyrion don't have caps on drink points. I like the idea of his new special. -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 2
So far he's scored 24pts off this Special, which leads the category but I wouldn't consider to be game-breaking. It's definitely a very good special, but still far shy of the uber powerful ones like Hodor's or Doran's. It's similar to Jon's special actually, in that he reliably gets it multiple times an episode (especially back in S1-4). -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 ssleppy and Lem Lemoncake like this

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