Matchup: The banners without brotherhood vs Davos Seaworth's prostate for Ep 5

/r/asoiaf

The banners without brotherhood (jjackson1845)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#22	18	3	15	0
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#2	15	12	3	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#19	12	3	6	3
Ornela (Dothraki Widow from Lhazareen) A young Dothraki widow from Dosh Khaleen. She follows Daenerys Targaryen after she defeats the other Khals by burning them alive inside the Temple of Dosh Khaleen.	#62	0	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#42	0	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#39	0	0	0	0
Bronze Yohn Royce Head of House Royce, bannermen to House Arryn of the Vale.	#59	0	0	0	0
Daisy A new prostitute employed in the brothels of Littlefinger.	#79	0	0	0	0
Totals		45	18	24	3

Davos Seaworth's prostate (jacob.letterbox)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#7	6	6
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#54	3	3
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#14	0	0
Qhono A Dothraki bloodrider, he swears allegiance to Daenerys after she burns all of the other Khals alive in Dosh Khaleen.	#67	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#34	0	0
Hallyne (Pyromancer) The head of the Alchemists' Guild, Hallyne is a skilled pyromancer and is able to produce wildfire, an explosive and volatile substance.	#74	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#27	0	0
Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.	#47	0	0
Totals		9	9

Political Wins

11:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

With the delivery of the Tyrell gold and a repayment of debts to the Iron Bank, Cersei secures a new loan: "We have the Tyrell gold, we have the Iron Bank behind us. We can buy mercenaries." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

11:49 (+3) Tycho Nestoris:

Cersei confirms the closure of the previously negotiated deal with the Iron Bank and the repayment of outstanding debts: "We have the Tyrell gold, we have the Iron Bank behind us. We can buy mercenaries." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

12:57 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime explains to Cersei that it was Olenna Tyrell who had assassinated Joffrey, not Tyrion.

Jaime: "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died."
Cersei: "And this was before or after she drank the poison you so kindly provided her?"
Jaime: "After."
Cersei: "And you believed her?"
Jaime: "If you were Olenna, would you rather have seen your granddaughter married to Joffrey or Tommen? Which one would Margaery have been better able to control? Which one would have made Olenna the true ruler of the Seven Kingdoms? She was telling the truth." (Secret Discovery)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei rejects Jaime's plea to find a peaceful solution out of the conflict with Daenerys.

Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

same idiocy by me, Overrulibg decision. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
same principle as her oberruling jaime with Euron -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Did any decision come out of this? I'm not sure that Jaime had a proposal or that Cersei had an order at the end of the day. It was sort of an expression of sentiments, Jaime saying they can't win against dragons and Cersei saying they'll still fight on and find a way. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
Overuling doesnt mean mean you need to order anything. Her decision was to stay the course against a third parties disaproval. In a court of law a judge uses overrule so the subject can stay the course and not accept whatever arguement the lawyer is trying to present. Cersei didnt give an order or change anything at all when she Overuled Jaimes advice to meet with Euron, she simply stayed the course after overuling her generals advice. Also this was clearly not a simple tit for tat conversation, Jaime says at the beginning of the episode he has to tell Cersei how bad this is. As general of her army in his next scene he specifcally went to her to try and convince her that this is a war that they will lose. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Yeah I think that works as a light decision. Jaime didn't have a concrete solution but he was sort of proposing that they start looking for alternate, peaceful solutions and that was rejected pretty strongly. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

32:25 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is taken by Bronn to the dungeons beneath the Red Keep, where he finds his fugitive brother Tyrion who has arranged a meeting with him there. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

Dang, I am kind of regretting losing the "willfully told" provision. It was working as a decent catch-all to exclude a lot of stuff like this that does technically fit but we sort of know it is not a powerful secret that goes anywhere. Anyhow for consistency's sake I'll add it in, I feel like I want to do more thinking about Secrets next season. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 Lem Lemoncake likes this
damned if you do, damned if you don't -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
I think you should add the caveat that being willfully told a secret only counts if the only people who know the secret are the person telling the secret in the person being told secret. That still allows for secret discovery when it's not willingly told, but that puts an end to potential secret chains. What happens if Cersei told someone that Olenna killed Joffrey? What happens if that person tells them? Where does it end? -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15 nyan likes this
*and the person, not in the person -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 15

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

41:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei reveals that she is already aware of Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting.

Cersei: "Are you going to punish him?"
Jaime: "Tyrion?"
Cersei: "Bronn. He betrayed you. He set up a meeting without your knowledge or consent. Do you think anything of importance happens in this city without me knowing?" (Secret Discovery)

41:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting, Cersei agrees to the truce with Daenerys while they await for Jon to return with proof of the White Walker situation.

Cersei: "I've come to believe that an accommodation with the Dragon Queen could be in our immediate interest. She has the numbers. If we want to beat her, we have to be clever. We have to fight her like Father would have." (Deals Brokered)

48:41 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals several books and records from the restricted area of the library and abandons the Citadel with Gilly and little Sam.

Gilly: "Are you sure you want to do this? You always wanted to be a Maester."
Samwell: "I'm tired of reading about the achievements of better men." (Act of Betrayal)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime Lannister: "[Olenna's] dead, like her son, her grandchildren, her whole house. And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Witty Insult)

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

47:05 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Gilly: "Guess how many windows are in the Great Sept of Baelor.
Sam: "None anymore." (Funny Line)

47:58 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam goes on a rant to Gilly about the order of Maesters: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Special

46:49 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam reads from a book as he transcribes it onto a fresh set of paper, before handing it over to Baby Sam. (Special)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

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