Matchup: MotherOfDragons3 vs Hound pound for Ep 5

GoTseason7

MotherOfDragons3 (bethshev003)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#2	35	20	12	0	0	3
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#35	5	0	0	0	5	0
Sandor Clegane (The Hound) A fearsome Lannister knight, formerly known as the Hound. After being left for dead after losing a fight with Brienne of Tarth, he recovered and briefly reformed as a laborer in a nonviolent commune, but has joined with Beric Dondarrion and the Brotherhood without Banners after bandits attack and destroy the village.	#23	3	0	0	3	0	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#11	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#14	0	0	0	0	0	0
Jaqen H'ghar The leader of the Faceless Men of Braavos, and a skilled assassin. He trains Arya to become an assassin in the House of Black and White, although she later leaves his training to return to Westeros.	#38	0	0	0	0	0	0
Daario Naharis Leader of the Second Sons, a sellsword company who now serves Daenerys Targaryen. He is also one of Daneerys' trusted advisors and her lover, but has been left behind in Meereen to govern the city.	#26	0	0	0	0	0	0
Denys Mallister A member of the Night's Watch and commander of the Shadow Tower, located the west end of the Wall. He was a candidate to be elected for Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, though Jon Snow ultimately won the election.	#47	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		43	20	12	3	5	3

Hound pound (matthew.j.dreyer)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Special
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#20	18	3	15	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#17	12	3	6	3
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and has sailed to Oldtown with Samwell as he begins his Maester's training.	#32	12	3	3	6
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment and subsequent infection with the fatal greyscale disease. As Daenerys leaves for Westeros, he wanders Essos in search of a cure.	#29	6	0	0	6
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#8	3	3	0	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#5	0	0	0	0
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although he is easily manipualted by Lord Petyr Baelish, who serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#41	0	0	0	0
Aeron Greyjoy An uncle of Theon Greyjoy, who serves as a priest to the Drowned God.	#44	0	0	0	0
Totals		51	12	24	15

Kills

10:41 (+20) Daenerys Targaryen:

After they refuse to bend the knee, Daenerys has Randyll and Dickon Tarly executed by dragonfire.

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Kill of Named Character)

The most amazing part of this is that Daenerys doesn't chortle while saying "Dickon Tarly". The composure of a true and rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 alicehanners, vjdev2015, Lem Lemoncake, WampaLord like this
They chose to die rather than bend the knee, not sure I agree with giving her kill credit -nickcota

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2017 Aug 15
These are the points that come direct from Drogon burning them (which are given to Daenerys due to her special). In keeping with the direct kills only change, Daenerys would not be getting any points simply for ordering the kill. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15

Political Wins

7:15 (+6) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rounds up the Lannister prisoners in the aftermath of the battle, which include Randyll and Dickon Tarly. (New Follower/Prisoner)

She does say that she isn't putting people in chains, does this count? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
They all bent the knee theyre followers not prisoners -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
They're prisoners of war for the few hours post-battle. She decides she doesn't want to keep them around as prisoners, but the fact that she can make that decision about their fates shows that they are her prisoners I think. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech likes this
How does that then work with Jon and Davos? They're being held against their will, but she also says clearly that they are not her prisoners ("not yet"). -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
It seems pretty easy to just ask the question in a pragmatic way - do the characters have any freedom of movement or action, or are they compelled to stay in the custody of another character? The Tarlys are clearly in Daenerys' custody, Jon/Davos were definitely floating close to it in the initial meeting (since they had their weapons and boat taken away too). -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech and amaltazyan like this

9:32 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rejects Tyrion's pleas for mercy or alternative punishments for the Lannister army, choosing to burn those who will not bend.

"I meant what I said. I'm not here to put them in chains. If that becomes an option many will take it. I gave them a choice. They made it." (Executive Decision)

18:06 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After getting that infection checked out at the Maester Clinic, Daenerys happily accepts Jorah Mormont back into service as her First Sword of the Friendzone.

Jorah: "I return to your service, my Queen, if you'll have me." (New Follower/Prisoner)

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

47:25 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly learns about a secret marriage by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen recorded in a book by High Septon Maynard.

Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

7 more comments - see full thread

If Gilly gets the points, Sam should too. She has about as much use with it as he does, but they both now know it -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 16
For Sam, I'd argue that he sort of blew Gilly off to the point of not even hearing what she said. But if he brings it up again ("hey were you saying something before about a Prince Ragger?") then we could count it then?

This is why you stay an attentive listener to your girlfriends, guys. Fantasy points, think about the fantasy points. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16 xdwxrd, kevinpetsky, jake.kmiech like this
ahem -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 29

48:41 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals several books and records from the restricted area of the library and abandons the Citadel with Gilly and little Sam.

Gilly: "Are you sure you want to do this? You always wanted to be a Maester."
Samwell: "I'm tired of reading about the achievements of better men." (Act of Betrayal)

53:29 (+3) Arya Stark:

Arya breaks into Littlefinger's chambers and discovers the hidden raven letter, a note from Sansa Stark while she was held captive in King's Landing, asking Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee. (Secret Discovery)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

47:05 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Gilly: "Guess how many windows are in the Great Sept of Baelor.
Sam: "None anymore." (Funny Line)

47:58 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam goes on a rant to Gilly about the order of Maesters: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

47:58 (+3) Gilly:

Samwell Tarly, complaining about his menial scribing tasks: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!"
Gilly: "Steps. That number was the steps." (Funny Line)

56:46 (+3) Sandor Clegane (The Hound):

The Hound interrupts Beric's grand monologue.

Beric: "It doesn't matter what we think our reasons are. There's a greater purpose at work. And we serve it together, whether we know it or not. We may take the steps, but the Lord of Light-"
Hound: "For fuck's sake, will you shut your hole? Are we coming with you or not?" (Funny Line)

Deaths

10:54 (+5) Randyll Tarly:

After refusing to bend the knee, Randyll is burned to ashes by Drogon's dragonfire alongside his son Dickon.

Daenerys: "Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Death)

Special

10:24 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Special)

17:18 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Qhono?: "This man says he is your friend, Khaleesi."
Daenerys: "He is my friend." (Special)

17:42 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Upon his return to Dragonstone, Jorah is introduced to the new Daario: "Jon Snow, this is Ser Jorah Mormont, an old friend." (Special)

46:49 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam reads from a book as he transcribes it onto a fresh set of paper, before handing it over to Baby Sam. (Special)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

46:52 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly recites some Maester trivia she has just learned: "Do you know how many steps there are in the Citadel? 15,782." (Special)

47:24 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly learns about annulments and a secret marriage.

Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Special)

The Feels

15:08 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:28 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

Tyrion and Jorah share a brief reunion before Jorah sails off to the Wall on Jon's expedition to kidnap a wight..

Tyrion: "This is the coin the slaver gave me when I suggested he free us and pay us, remember?"
Jorah: "It was supposed to last us the rest of our lives."
Tyrion: "Take it with you. But bring it back. Our Queen needs you." (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys says her goodbyes to Jorah once again, as she takes his hands into hers.

Daenerys: "We should be better at saying farewell by now."
Jorah: "Your Grace, I-" (stunned speechless by actual physical contact) (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

9 more comments - see full thread

There's a few good articles and reddit threads about this but yeah I feel the same. I think running out of the pre-written book material, and deciding to just run with the 7 episodes of concrete content they had rather than flesh things out, has hurt them. On one hand, Benioff and Weiss were never going to be able to write out the same level of plot intricacies that GRRM would, and the attempts we've seen have been god awful (everything about Dorne, and I'd argue the treatment of Euron). But there are a lot of competent writers out there from other shows, I feel like they had the budget to create something here. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this
Theres no way the creators can say there wasnt enough material to make three more episodes. In e5 Gendry comes back, Jorah comes back, Bran sends a raven to dragon stone and they all end up at fucking eastwatch together. Not to mention cutting off a conversation half way through between Tyrion and Jaime that could have been a great fucking scene. Seriously missed opportunity. Also The brotherhood just magically going from the riverlands to eastwatch with no scenes in between. Im gonna beyond pissed if the writers dont take advantage of The Hound and Tormund being together.Also Dorne is a great example, usually the show is really good at atleast representing who the characters are if they cant fit in the plot points. But they just glossed over Doran and made him look like a pussy and Areo Hotah didnt kill one fucking person. The board probably got together and realized they would make the same revenue by making either 7 or 10 episodes. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 18 nyan and hkeseyan like this
Yeah there was a ton more for Jaime-Tyrion! This was their first meeting since S4! All the pent up resentment, Jaime discovering that Tyrion wasn't behind Joffrey after all, Tyrion thinking he'd almost lose his brother for that stupid charge against the dragon! And instead after 10s Jaime just interrupts his brother so they can move on to talking about what Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Cersei want to do. grrr -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

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