Matchup: Jon Snowden vs A Team Has No Name for Ep 3

gdicentral

Jon Snowden (charlesevans2018)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Wine	Sex	Special
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#7	52	0	21	5	20	6
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#22	30	24	6	0	0	0
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#35	0	0	0	0	0	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#8	0	0	0	0	0	0
Lyanna Mormont The spunky young head of House Mormont.	#36	0	0	0	0	0	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys now pulls the political strings for Daenerys Targaryen, arranging alliances with the Westerosi Houses Tyrell and Martell. He controls a vast network of spies.	#21	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bronze Yohn Royce Head of House Royce, bannermen to House Arryn of the Vale.	-	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		82	24	27	5	20	6

A Team Has No Name (elisachs2018)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Special
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#1	76	5	15	3	10	40	3
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#14	19	5	0	9	5	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#28	3	0	3	0	0	0	0
Tormund Giantsbane Formerly a lieutenant of Mance Rayder, the King beyond the Wall, Tormund is now the de facto leader of the Wildlings and a reasoned voice in rallying them behind the cause of Jon Snow.	#15	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although he is easily manipualted by Lord Petyr Baelish, who serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#42	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#29	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and has sailed to Oldtown with Samwell as he begins his Maester's training.	#43	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		98	10	18	12	15	40	3

Kills

0:00 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei plants a kiss on Tyene Sand, poisoning her with the Long Farewell - the same poison used by Ellaria Sand to kill Myrcella Baratheon. (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

22 more comments - see full thread

Who seems satisfied??? This is baffling to me. You're awarding death points for someone who may not be dead. What happens if Tyene is still alive next episode and does something? No death points without confirmed death. -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 3 righteous likes this
@alicehanners there are no death points yet. these are major injury points for the poison which will be upgraded to 10 total for kill points if the poison kills her (to prevent a 5+10 double dip for Cersei) and then 5 to Tyene when she dies -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3 nyan likes this
Doesn't make sense to give death points for this, but it's certainly major injury. -righteous

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2017 Aug 8

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

53:50 (+2) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm slits the throat of a Lannister guard, after sneaking past the walls of Casterly Rock via the sewer tunnels. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

It is a little difficult to differentiate Grey Worm from the rest of the Unsullied, but he has a badge with three dragons on the clavicle of his armor which seems to be unique to him, which was used to identify him in the battle scenes: http://imgur.com/a/BGogM

This first kill is the only ambiguous one as the clavicle piece is not visible, but it seems to credibly be him based on the parts of face that are visible. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
The shield kills that are being counting aren't confirmed kills. Minor injuries at best. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
which is 8 of his point this episode. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
In the rulebook for Kills.IV we have a rule for: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes."

It's just a lot easier to count, else there are a lot of nitpicky debates that some strike is on a non-fatal region, or the shield bash didn't look strong enough, etc. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

54:22 (+8) Grey Worm :

Leading the Unsullied, Grey Worm stabs two Lannister soldiers while charging the stairs, and smashes two more with his shield. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:29 (+14) Grey Worm :

At the top of the stairs, Grey Worm kills 7 Lannister soldiers, throwing his spear to impale the last one against a door. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After seizing Highgarden, the defeated Olenna Tyrell sits in her prisoner as a prisoner of Jaime Lannister. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

22:34 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

Euron Greyjoy presents his gift to Cersei - the captured Ellaria and Tyene Sand. (New Follower/Prisoner)

23:28 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei accepts Euron Greyjoy's proposal of an alliance, appointing him at the head of her navy. (New Follower/Prisoner)

30:40 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei casually reveals her night of incest with Jaime in her chambers as she opens the door for one of her handmaidens.

Jaime: "What are you doing? No one can see us like this."
Cersei: "I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, I'll do as I please." (Executive Decision)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

I'm not sure that this really qualifies as a "major decision"? Since we know the handmaiden is is not going to do anything. But it is Cersei flexing her political muscle to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Interprered this as two things. First was her decision that she is longer hiding their incest
Second that between her and Jaime she is the one wearing the proverbial pants. Also because this is within a sex scene if it does receive points it should get the 2x multiplier. I can see both sides of this argument however. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 1
It doesn't seem very 'executive' at this point. -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1
I agree that this does deserved points for an Executive Decision, her openly revealing her incestual relationship is a Major Decision. However Cersie definitely should not be getting 2X multiplier for non-sexual acts. She already is probably going to be the highest scoring character in the game and if shes going to be more open about her relationship with Jamie she definitely cannot be getting 2X for everything she does.

I think we need clarification on the Cersie's special. The rule currently reads: "2x multiplier for sex scenes involving incest" although I believe it has the same meaning, I think it should be refined to read "2x multiplier for sexual ACTS involving incest". -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise thats a good clarification, I'll change the text. The intention was definitely for the sex act, not everything happening in the scenes -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

33:09 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei convinces the Iron Bank against investing in Daenerys Targaryen, and to give her an extension on her loan instead: "From what I gather, she considers herself more of a revolutionary than a monarch. In your experience, how do bankers usually fare with revolutionaries? The Lannisters owe the Iron Bank quite a lot of money, but Lannisters always pay their debts. Do former slaves or Dothraki or dragons?"

Tycho Nestoris: "Your father's daughter, indeed." (Convincing Argument)

51:27 (+3) Missandei:

Missandei convinces Daenerys against flying out herself to hunt down Euron Greyjoy's Iron Fleet.

Tyrion: "You'd be flying around the open seas alone for who knows how long."
Daenerys: "I wouldn't be alone. I would have Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal. What can anyone do to them?"
Missandei: "They can still do something to you. It only takes one arrow." (Convincing Argument)

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Victorious Battle)

Greywoem may have won the battle, but isn't it Danaerys who actually wins the castle? -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Did he win the castle? Or did Euron trap him in the castle? -Th3 JaBBeRWoCK

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2017 Aug 1
I think we'll count it even as a temporary or pyrrhic victory. As for Dany, in general it feels like this is a point for the general who leads the battle, but it can transfer to Daenerys once she gets her boots on the ground, or if we get a line from Grey Worm like "the castle is yours, your Grace." -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
-Elon

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2017 Aug 2
Battle of the Bastards did result in Battle Victory points for Ramsay (http://fantasora.com/event/2892). In the rulebook it states that large battles can be divided up and have multiple victory points awarded for each segment. Think of it like an Assault map for a game like Battlefield or TF2, there are intermediate points for each objective taken. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime's offer to Randyll Tarly to rebel against the Tyrells appears to have been accepted, as the Tarly's ride with the Lannister army on the assault on Highgarden. (Convincing Argument)

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Randyll Tarly allies with the Lannisters, taking Jaime Lannister's offer to become Warden of the South and marching with the Lannister army against the Tyrells. (New Follower/Prisoner)

See - if Jaime recruiting a new follower for Cersei counts for her, and Euron's fleet's points are his, shouldn't any of Dany's forces' points count for her as well? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
Or: This should probably bis Jaime's points :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
This one is a bit nebulous. Tarly has no interaction with Cersei and is arguably a lieutenant to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Agree, here I think Jaime should get the point not Cercei, we clearly see him with bronn following the "leader" jaime for this battle.
And I don't think Dany should get the points for her forces -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1 alexanderdropkin and playabills like this

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Victorious Battle)

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

58:31 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is in possession of the Valyrian steel sword, Widow's Wail. "How will you do it? With that sword? That was Joffrey's sword, wasn't it? Not that he ever used it. What did he call it?" Jaime: "Widow's Wail." (New Weapon)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

In her dying moments, Olenna Tyrell reveals to Jaime that she was Joffrey's killer.

"I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes bloodred, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me ... You see, I had never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Per the previous discussion about Edd, we were considering elimination of the "willingly told" criteria and instead allowing scores if they are the only person to know the secret outside of the secret holder: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

This one seems to fit a similar criteria to Edd's discovery of Bran. Though it could be argued the identity of Joffrey's killer is irrelevant at this point? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I think that even if it is "willingly told", it is an important discovery for Jaime and only a few people know (maybe dead? Margeary <3). So the question is more about, Is this really a secret important for the plot and the story. But for Jaime it is. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1
It is definitely a secret discovery. And especially for Jaime it is crucial information because now his beloved brother who he freed and so forth is not guilty of the one crime that Jaime may not have ever been able to forgive him. Plus: Now Cersei's main legitimization for wanting Tyrion dead has to switch from regicide/nephicide to treason or whatever they call it :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and emilien.raggi like this
Ooh @Lem very good points about the implications to Tyrion! -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I personally like the "willingly told" criteria of the rule. A huge part of everything we see on screen is a secret in one way or another to other character's in the show. Without the "willingly told" clause this rule could start to run away with points. For example every named character in winterfell would have just gotten points for finding out that Bran is still alive, do we really want 10+ characters getting points for finding out a secret each episode? -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise that was the initial reason for the "willingly told" criteria, definitely something like Bran coming to Winterfell is now just new information, not a valuable secret. The new idea is the criteria that someone is the first/only person to know of a secret, since that gives them exclusive power to act on that information. That would seem to fit Jaime's situation (he could exonerate Sansa and Tyrion with this info). -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

28:34 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Ellaria Sand: "Your daughter will die here in this cell, and you will be here watching when she does. You'll be here the rest of your days. If you refuse to eat, we'll force food down your throat. You will live to watch your daughter rot. To watch that beautiful face collapse - to bone and dust. All the while contemplating the choices you've made.

Make sure the guards change the torches every few hours. I don't want her to miss a thing." (Threat)

7 more comments - see full thread

@ssleppy Cersei acquires the prisoner points here: http://fantasora.com/event/3296 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 ssleppy likes this
I thought it wasn't considered a threat if they do the thing they are threatening? -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 3
I don't recall anything against carrying out the threat, just that the action itself shouldn't purely make the threat threatening, it should be the line having interesting wording. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

28:15 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei downs a shot of Long Farewell antidote after poisoning Tyene Sand with a kiss. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

29:27 (+5) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime takes a drink in Cersei's chambers as we all try to collectively erase the imagery of Euron sticking Cersei with the pointy end. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

31:24 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks while discussing the Iron Throne's debt payments with Tycho Nestoris, a representative of the Iron Bank. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

30:10 (+20) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime gets his trousers dropped as Cersei is feeling extra thirsty after another exhilarating session of dungeon torturing her enemies. (Act of Intercourse)

14 more comments - see full thread

@hindsight44 I made a clarification here after @ssantise brought it up, the intention was to double the acts but not everything related to the scene: http://fantasora.com/event/3308

The scoring should be about what the viewers see. So they get credit for the on-screen butts and nudity. Presumably every sex scene (even the PG ones), all the characters see all the parts so the scoring wouldn't really work that way. We also previously defined that you need to touch one of these parts to count as sex, so just seeing each other wouldn't count. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
what's the verdict on this? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3
Let's go with just a double of all the sex points (the nudity and the act), so the points remain as they are currently. It's quite powerful, but so far this is the first and only instance in 7 seasons that we got incest-related nudity out of either character. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

30:30 (+40) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei throws off the bed sheets to reveal herself in the morning after a night with Jaime. (Act of Intercourse)

My math on this is 40 because of the 2x special multiplier. Thoughts? -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and colin.heinke like this
Should be 40, and Jaime's should be 20. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan, paolarodelas, taylorreneegoodrich like this
Yep, forgot to apply the multiplier, thanks guys! Damn, this ratchets their scores up really high, though to be fair this is the first nude sex scene I can recall from Cersei in a long while (ever?) -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 taylorreneegoodrich likes this

Special

24:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Euron asks Jaime for advice on pleasing Cersei: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

31:03 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out a glass of wine for her Braavosi visitor, Tycho Nestoris of the Iron Bank. (Special)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Olenna Tyrell: "I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes blood red, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father." (Special)

Would this also be a secret discovery? -easson27

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2017 Aug 1
There's a provision that the secret can't be "willingly told" by the secret holder, but we just had a lengthy debate that points towards removing that criteria: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

With the new criteria used for Edd, it possibly counts - Jaime is the only person who knows at this point and is in a position to disseminate that information. I've created it as a submission here: http://fantasora.com/event/3344 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
Didn't you already give him points for this earlier in the thread?? -benmfink414

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2017 Aug 4

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