Matchup: The Littlest Finger vs The Manning Faced God for Ep 5

M.V.TREE

The Littlest Finger (oofiepoo5)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Gendry A bastard son of Robert Baratheon, although this fact is not widely known (even to Gendry himself). After being captured by Melisandre, he is freed by Ser Davos and escaped Dragonstone by rowboat. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but he will likely emerge at some point with the swolest arms Westeros has ever seen.	#24	16	4	3	6	3
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#1	15	0	12	3	0
Jorah Mormont The exiled head of House Mormont. Jorah was previously one of Daenerys Targaryen's most trusted advisors before his banishment and subsequent infection with the fatal greyscale disease. As Daenerys leaves for Westeros, he wanders Essos in search of a cure.	#13	6	0	0	0	6
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and past, and has the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. After having encountered the Three-Eyed Raven and the Night King in the far north, he now flees back south to the Wall.	#12	6	0	3	0	3
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#25	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		43	4	18	9	12

The Manning Faced God (cgrnbrg)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Deaths	Special
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#16	18	3	15	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#28	12	3	6	0	3
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#4	12	9	3	0	0
Dickon Tarly Samwell's younger, more physically formidable brother. He is the heir to House Tarly after Samwell was sent by his father to join the Night's Watch.	-	5	0	0	5	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#9	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		47	15	24	5	3

Kills

39:28 (+4) Gendry:

After Davos's charade begins to break down, Gendry brings out his warhammer to smash in the faces of the two investigating Gold Cloaks. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Jon Snow:

Gendry enthusiastically pledges to follow Jon Snow beyond the Wall to take on the White Walkers. (New Follower/Prisoner)

11:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

With the delivery of the Tyrell gold and a repayment of debts to the Iron Bank, Cersei secures a new loan: "We have the Tyrell gold, we have the Iron Bank behind us. We can buy mercenaries." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

12:57 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime explains to Cersei that it was Olenna Tyrell who had assassinated Joffrey, not Tyrion.

Jaime: "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died."
Cersei: "And this was before or after she drank the poison you so kindly provided her?"
Jaime: "After."
Cersei: "And you believed her?"
Jaime: "If you were Olenna, would you rather have seen your granddaughter married to Joffrey or Tommen? Which one would Margaery have been better able to control? Which one would have made Olenna the true ruler of the Seven Kingdoms? She was telling the truth." (Secret Discovery)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei rejects Jaime's plea to find a peaceful solution out of the conflict with Daenerys.

Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

same idiocy by me, Overrulibg decision. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
same principle as her oberruling jaime with Euron -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Did any decision come out of this? I'm not sure that Jaime had a proposal or that Cersei had an order at the end of the day. It was sort of an expression of sentiments, Jaime saying they can't win against dragons and Cersei saying they'll still fight on and find a way. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
Overuling doesnt mean mean you need to order anything. Her decision was to stay the course against a third parties disaproval. In a court of law a judge uses overrule so the subject can stay the course and not accept whatever arguement the lawyer is trying to present. Cersei didnt give an order or change anything at all when she Overuled Jaimes advice to meet with Euron, she simply stayed the course after overuling her generals advice. Also this was clearly not a simple tit for tat conversation, Jaime says at the beginning of the episode he has to tell Cersei how bad this is. As general of her army in his next scene he specifcally went to her to try and convince her that this is a war that they will lose. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Yeah I think that works as a light decision. Jaime didn't have a concrete solution but he was sort of proposing that they start looking for alternate, peaceful solutions and that was rejected pretty strongly. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

19:47 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran discovers the location of the Night King and the army of the dead, marching towards Eastwatch. "Ravens. We need to send ravens." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

26:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Over Davos' and Daenerys' protests, Jon decides that he'll personally lead the expedition north of the Wall to capture a wight.

Davos Seaworth: "You can't lead a raid beyond the Wall. You're not in the Night's Watch anymore, you're King in the North."
Jon: "I'm the only one here who's fought them. I'm the only one here who knows them."
Daenerys: "I haven't given you permission to leave."
Jon: "With respect, Your Grace, I don't need your permission. I am a King." (Executive Decision)

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

36:24 (+3) Gendry:

Gendry unveils the massive warhammer he's fashioned for himself. "I don't know much about swinging swords. But this... this I know." (New Weapon)

41:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei reveals that she is already aware of Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting.

Cersei: "Are you going to punish him?"
Jaime: "Tyrion?"
Cersei: "Bronn. He betrayed you. He set up a meeting without your knowledge or consent. Do you think anything of importance happens in this city without me knowing?" (Secret Discovery)

48:41 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals several books and records from the restricted area of the library and abandons the Citadel with Gilly and little Sam.

Gilly: "Are you sure you want to do this? You always wanted to be a Maester."
Samwell: "I'm tired of reading about the achievements of better men." (Act of Betrayal)

57:14 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon silences the squabbling in the Eastwatch cells and recruits the prisoners into his expedition.

Jon: "He's right. We're all on the same side."
Gendry: "How can we be?"
Jon: "We're all breathing." (Convincing Argument)

Definitely deserves some points, but maybe this should be under convincing argument -kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 16 hkeseyan and nyan like this
If he weren't the one in charge making the decision, and that line swayed the decision-maker, it'd be a convincing argument. IMO, this is the right category for this. Whether his decision was convincing or not we shall see. -dopeghoti

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2017 Aug 17
More of a semantics issue, but I switched this from Executive to Convince. I took this more of a line to Gendry who doesn't work with the Brotherhood - it's not a command that Gendry fall in line but attempting to convince Gendry that his beef doesn't matter as the White Walkers are the true enemy. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime Lannister: "[Olenna's] dead, like her son, her grandchildren, her whole house. And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Witty Insult)

16:04 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon and Daenerys discuss her dragons.

Daenerys: "They're beautiful, aren't they?"
Jon: "It wasn't the word I was thinking of, but... but, yes, they are. Gorgeous beasts." (Funny Line)

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

43:06 (+3) Gendry:

Gendry bulldozes into his introduction with Jon Snow, after Davos warns him to do the exact opposite.

Davos: "The king's got a lot on his mind."
Gendry: "I understand."
Davos: "He doesn't need to be thinking about harboring the bastard of a dead king."
Gendry: "You don't have to worry."
Davos: "You're just Clovis, a smith who's come to pay his respects before he heads off to work at the Winterfell forges."
Gendry: "Understood."
...
Davos: "Your Grace, this is Clo-"
Gendry: "Name's Gendry, Your Grace. I'm Robert Baratheon's son. Bastard son." (Funny Line)

43:22 (+3) Gendry:

Jon Snow: "I saw your father once at Winterfell."
Gendry: "I met yours in my shop."
Jon: "You're a lot leaner."
Gendry: "And you're a lot shorter." (Funny Line)

47:05 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Gilly: "Guess how many windows are in the Great Sept of Baelor.
Sam: "None anymore." (Funny Line)

47:58 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam goes on a rant to Gilly about the order of Maesters: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Deaths

10:54 (+5) Dickon Tarly:

After refusing to bend the knee, Dickon is burned to ashes by Drogon's dragonfire alongside his father Randyll.

Daenerys: "Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Death)

Special

17:18 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Qhono?: "This man says he is your friend, Khaleesi."
Daenerys: "He is my friend." (Special)

17:42 (+3) Jorah Mormont:

Upon his return to Dragonstone, Jorah is introduced to the new Daario: "Jon Snow, this is Ser Jorah Mormont, an old friend." (Special)

18:35 (+3) Bran Stark:

Bran wargs into a flock of ravens to fly beyond Eastwatch-by-the-Sea and scout out the White Walker army. (Special)

48 more comments - see full thread

@emilien.raggi I've added in 5.0c, which has the 100pt caps and keeps Bran at this +3 score for warging. -nyan

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2017 Aug 19 emilien.raggi likes this
thanks a lot, just a small thing: now in 5.0c euron has +2 for minor injury of named character (yara) instead of +1 (episode 2) -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 19
Thanks for catching that, @emilien.raggi! Fixed as well. -nyan

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2017 Aug 19

34:24 (+3) Gendry:

Gendry heats a new sword in the coals in the blacksmith shop. (Special)

46:49 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam reads from a book as he transcribes it onto a fresh set of paper, before handing it over to Baby Sam. (Special)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

The Feels

15:08 (+0) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:28 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

Tyrion and Jorah share a brief reunion before Jorah sails off to the Wall on Jon's expedition to kidnap a wight..

Tyrion: "This is the coin the slaver gave me when I suggested he free us and pay us, remember?"
Jorah: "It was supposed to last us the rest of our lives."
Tyrion: "Take it with you. But bring it back. Our Queen needs you." (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Jorah Mormont:

Daenerys says her goodbyes to Jorah once again, as she takes his hands into hers.

Daenerys: "We should be better at saying farewell by now."
Jorah: "Your Grace, I-" (stunned speechless by actual physical contact) (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

9 more comments - see full thread

There's a few good articles and reddit threads about this but yeah I feel the same. I think running out of the pre-written book material, and deciding to just run with the 7 episodes of concrete content they had rather than flesh things out, has hurt them. On one hand, Benioff and Weiss were never going to be able to write out the same level of plot intricacies that GRRM would, and the attempts we've seen have been god awful (everything about Dorne, and I'd argue the treatment of Euron). But there are a lot of competent writers out there from other shows, I feel like they had the budget to create something here. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this
Theres no way the creators can say there wasnt enough material to make three more episodes. In e5 Gendry comes back, Jorah comes back, Bran sends a raven to dragon stone and they all end up at fucking eastwatch together. Not to mention cutting off a conversation half way through between Tyrion and Jaime that could have been a great fucking scene. Seriously missed opportunity. Also The brotherhood just magically going from the riverlands to eastwatch with no scenes in between. Im gonna beyond pissed if the writers dont take advantage of The Hound and Tormund being together.Also Dorne is a great example, usually the show is really good at atleast representing who the characters are if they cant fit in the plot points. But they just glossed over Doran and made him look like a pussy and Areo Hotah didnt kill one fucking person. The board probably got together and realized they would make the same revenue by making either 7 or 10 episodes. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 18 nyan and hkeseyan like this
Yeah there was a ton more for Jaime-Tyrion! This was their first meeting since S4! All the pent up resentment, Jaime discovering that Tyrion wasn't behind Joffrey after all, Tyrion thinking he'd almost lose his brother for that stupid charge against the dragon! And instead after 10s Jaime just interrupts his brother so they can move on to talking about what Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Cersei want to do. grrr -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

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