Matchup: The Valonqar vs Valar Morghulis for Ep 3

Getting Jon Snow some Greyscale armor

The Valonqar (jimwangerin)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Special
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#5	52	21	0	5	20	6
Euron Greyjoy The new King of the Iron Islands, after killing his brother Balon Greyjoy. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#12	30	9	12	0	0	9
Tyrion Lannister Quick to wit and even quicker to the drink, Tyrion is the youngest of three Lannister children. After being exiled by his sister Cersei, he has joined with Daenerys Targaryen, serving as her Hand of the Queen and most trusted adviser.	#4	21	6	15	0	0	0
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#21	3	0	0	0	0	3
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#28	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#20	0	0	0	0	0	0
Sandor Clegane (The Hound) A fearsome Lannister knight, formerly known as the Hound. After being left for dead after losing a fight with Brienne of Tarth, he recovered and briefly reformed as a laborer in a nonviolent commune, but has joined with Beric Dondarrion and the Brotherhood without Banners after bandits attack and destroy the village.	#13	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#29	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		106	36	27	5	20	18

Valar Morghulis (hollywangerin)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#11	30	24	6	0
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#22	3	0	0	3
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#3	3	0	0	3
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#27	0	0	0	0
Arya Stark The youngest of the Stark girls. Recently having completed her training as an assassin in the House of Black and White, she has set sail to return to Westeros to pursue her revenge.	#6	0	0	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#19	0	0	0	0
Qyburn The new Master of Whispers in King's Landing, loyally serving Queen Cersei Lannister. A disgraced former Maester, he engages in many scientific experiments in his dungeon lab	#30	0	0	0	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#14	0	0	0	0
Totals		36	24	6	6

Kills

53:50 (+2) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm slits the throat of a Lannister guard, after sneaking past the walls of Casterly Rock via the sewer tunnels. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

It is a little difficult to differentiate Grey Worm from the rest of the Unsullied, but he has a badge with three dragons on the clavicle of his armor which seems to be unique to him, which was used to identify him in the battle scenes: http://imgur.com/a/BGogM

This first kill is the only ambiguous one as the clavicle piece is not visible, but it seems to credibly be him based on the parts of face that are visible. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
The shield kills that are being counting aren't confirmed kills. Minor injuries at best. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
which is 8 of his point this episode. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
In the rulebook for Kills.IV we have a rule for: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes."

It's just a lot easier to count, else there are a lot of nitpicky debates that some strike is on a non-fatal region, or the shield bash didn't look strong enough, etc. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

54:22 (+8) Grey Worm :

Leading the Unsullied, Grey Worm stabs two Lannister soldiers while charging the stairs, and smashes two more with his shield. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:29 (+14) Grey Worm :

At the top of the stairs, Grey Worm kills 7 Lannister soldiers, throwing his spear to impale the last one against a door. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

After seizing Highgarden, the defeated Olenna Tyrell sits in her prisoner as a prisoner of Jaime Lannister. (New Follower/Prisoner)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

With his succesful destruction of Yara Greyjoy's fleet and the "gift" of the captured Ellaria and Tyene Sand, Euron wins over Cersei and convinces her to ally with his Ironborn and accept his marriage proposal. (Convincing Argument)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Original submission by @hkeseyan:

Euron has convinced Cersei to accept his hand in marriage. Cersei: ""You shall have what your heart desires"

Cersei has apparently accepted Euron's proposal for his hand in marriage from back in episode 1. Scoring for this event was delayed until we see confirmation that Cersei agrees to the deal, which we receive in this episode. Cersei has given Euron her word that he will receive his reward, in front of Jaime Lannister and the court, as we see Jaime uncomfortably react to her words. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2
I think it's fine that Cersei still says, "...after the war is won". Like Robert's order to send assassins for Daenerys, it's fine if the order is not carried out to completion, just that the course of action was decided upon. In addition, he does still convince Cersei to ally with the Ironborn and name him head of the Royal Navy. Although that's kind of trivial because it's basically all Ironborn ships at this point. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

23:28 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Cersei accepts Euron Greyjoy's proposal of an alliance, appointing him as the head of the navy of the Seven Kindgoms. (New Title)

36:48 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

After Jon Snow resigns himself to giving up on an alliance with Daenerys and returning to the North empty-handed, Tyrion convinces him to stay and find a compromise deal, leading him to ask for the dragonglass.

Tyrion: "After a single meeting, it's not a reasonable thing to ask. So, do you have anything reasonable to ask?"
Jon: "What do you mean?"
Tyrion: "Maybe you are a Northern fool. I'm asking if there's something I can do to help you." (Convincing Argument)

38:53 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion convinces Daenerys to give Jon Snow the dragonglass as a gesture of good faith with the North. "Let him mine the Dragonglass. If he's wrong, it's worthless. You didn't even know it was here. It's nothing to you. Give him something by giving him nothing. Take a step toward a more productive relationship with a possible ally." (Convincing Argument)

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Victorious Battle)

Greywoem may have won the battle, but isn't it Danaerys who actually wins the castle? -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Did he win the castle? Or did Euron trap him in the castle? -Th3 JaBBeRWoCK

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2017 Aug 1
I think we'll count it even as a temporary or pyrrhic victory. As for Dany, in general it feels like this is a point for the general who leads the battle, but it can transfer to Daenerys once she gets her boots on the ground, or if we get a line from Grey Worm like "the castle is yours, your Grace." -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
-Elon

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2017 Aug 2
Battle of the Bastards did result in Battle Victory points for Ramsay (http://fantasora.com/event/2892). In the rulebook it states that large battles can be divided up and have multiple victory points awarded for each segment. Think of it like an Assault map for a game like Battlefield or TF2, there are intermediate points for each objective taken. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

55:21 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

As the Unsullied are busy attacking Casterly Rock, Euron's Iron Fleet ambushes their ships, destroying the Unsullied navy and cutting off any sea-based escape route in the process.

Jaime Lannister to Olenna Tyrell: "They won't be able to hold it (Casterly Rock). Euron Greyjoy's navy burned their ships, we emptied the larders before we left. Eventually, they'll be forced to abandon their position and march all the way across Westeros." (Victorious Battle)

7 more comments - see full thread

Jaime's dialogue seems to confirm it is Euron leading them, and there aren't any other Ironborn fleets led by anyone else at the moment. Giving Dany points here would be like giving Cersei credit for everything Euron and Jaime do.

I do think Tyrion is deserving of something for the plan, but he wasn't there to execute it and I'm not sure what the scoring category would be like. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
We should assume Euron's ship Silence being prominently shown (as it has in every episode this season) means Euron is present, unless explicitly seen under the command of someone else. Just like the rule change with Dany's dragons.

As for Tyrion - he was only sort-of successful. His plan worked in terms of obtaining the castle, but it failed horribly in terms of making progress towards winning the war. I don't think you can expect Dany would be too happy with Tyrion's plan. Jaime sure was happy about it, though. His strategy likely doomed Dany's most trusted army. Grey Worm still gets points for winning the physical battle and actually capturing the castle, but Tyrion as a war strategist did not have a victory here. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake, nyan, alexanderdropkin like this
Good argument about the Silence - didn't notice or think of that :) -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime's offer to Randyll Tarly to rebel against the Tyrells appears to have been accepted, as the Tarly's ride with the Lannister army on the assault on Highgarden. (Convincing Argument)

55:56 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Randyll Tarly allies with the Lannisters, taking Jaime Lannister's offer to become Warden of the South and marching with the Lannister army against the Tyrells. (New Follower/Prisoner)

See - if Jaime recruiting a new follower for Cersei counts for her, and Euron's fleet's points are his, shouldn't any of Dany's forces' points count for her as well? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
Or: This should probably bis Jaime's points :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
This one is a bit nebulous. Tarly has no interaction with Cersei and is arguably a lieutenant to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Agree, here I think Jaime should get the point not Cercei, we clearly see him with bronn following the "leader" jaime for this battle.
And I don't think Dany should get the points for her forces -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1 alexanderdropkin and playabills like this

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Victorious Battle)

56:32 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime walks through the courtyards of Highgarden, where the Lannister army has been victorious in seizing the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

58:31 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime is in possession of the Valyrian steel sword, Widow's Wail. "How will you do it? With that sword? That was Joffrey's sword, wasn't it? Not that he ever used it. What did he call it?" Jaime: "Widow's Wail." (New Weapon)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

In her dying moments, Olenna Tyrell reveals to Jaime that she was Joffrey's killer.

"I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes bloodred, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me ... You see, I had never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Per the previous discussion about Edd, we were considering elimination of the "willingly told" criteria and instead allowing scores if they are the only person to know the secret outside of the secret holder: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

This one seems to fit a similar criteria to Edd's discovery of Bran. Though it could be argued the identity of Joffrey's killer is irrelevant at this point? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I think that even if it is "willingly told", it is an important discovery for Jaime and only a few people know (maybe dead? Margeary <3). So the question is more about, Is this really a secret important for the plot and the story. But for Jaime it is. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 1
It is definitely a secret discovery. And especially for Jaime it is crucial information because now his beloved brother who he freed and so forth is not guilty of the one crime that Jaime may not have ever been able to forgive him. Plus: Now Cersei's main legitimization for wanting Tyrion dead has to switch from regicide/nephicide to treason or whatever they call it :D -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and emilien.raggi like this
Ooh @Lem very good points about the implications to Tyrion! -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I personally like the "willingly told" criteria of the rule. A huge part of everything we see on screen is a secret in one way or another to other character's in the show. Without the "willingly told" clause this rule could start to run away with points. For example every named character in winterfell would have just gotten points for finding out that Bran is still alive, do we really want 10+ characters getting points for finding out a secret each episode? -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise that was the initial reason for the "willingly told" criteria, definitely something like Bran coming to Winterfell is now just new information, not a valuable secret. The new idea is the criteria that someone is the first/only person to know of a secret, since that gives them exclusive power to act on that information. That would seem to fit Jaime's situation (he could exonerate Sansa and Tyrion with this info). -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

calling back to Bronn's quote about the Eyrie: "Give me ten good men, and I'll impregnate the bitch" (Funny Line)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Melisandre:

to Varys: "I will return, dear Spider, one last time. I have to die in this strange country... just like you." (Threat)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

10 more comments - see full thread

Tyrion refers to himself as an imp quite a few times, doesn't make it any less insulting. Being referred to as a "spider" regardless if he personally uses it does not change the negative connotations around being referred to as a spider.

I think Melissandre's line was both eloquent and masterfully stated. First she calmly patronizes him as her "Dear Spider", in direct response to his threat (which is almost enough of insult for points alone). Then she cleverly follows this by referring to Westeroes as "this strange land". Finally she finishes of her beautiful line by returning the threat to Varys, that they both must die here. If she wanted to be dull and undeserving of points she would have just said "Varys you're gonna die in Westeroes." but she didn't. -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1
i think it was a great line and a threatening one. not an insult though. i'm not denying she should get points for the line at all; i agree she should get points for it being ominous and threatening, but not that it's an insult. that's all :) -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 1
I think context is what makes this a threat. Varys directly threatens her right before she says this. Before Varys threatened her she was passive and very open with Varys. This 180 attitude was to respond a threat with another threat. We have no evidence or proof to show this was definitvley from the flames, have Mel even interepted flames since Stannis?

Also this isnt a plain direct threat like Dany saying" Betray me and i will burn you alive." If there was no wit or innuendo Mel would have simply said "Varys you will die in Westeroes." But she did use wit.If you read between the lines what she meant by this was we are equals. Mel knows Varys hates magic and all who follow it, he has a very elitist and arrogant attitude when dealing with Magical entities (specifically priests of Rhollor). So when she says 'i will die here just like you.' she is saying get off your high horse you are no better than me, this country will claim both of us . Id say that is threatening and witty enough to warrant points. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 2 nyan likes this

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Yara, mocking Theon's reaction during their battle on her ship: "*Ohhh noooo!* What a twat." (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "There's nothing like it is there, the love of the people ... but I suppose you wouldn't know". (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

23:55 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Jaime Lannister: "...if you turn on us, they'll cheer to have your severed head mounted on a spike."
Euron: "Or yours. They just like severed heads, really." (Threat)

24:08 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Funny Line)

submitted by jbornstein89 (approved!)

34:07 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

to Jon Snow: "I came down here to brood over my failure to predict the Greyjoy attack. You're making it difficult. You look a lot better brooding than I do. You make me feel like I'm failing at brooding over failing." (Funny Line)

35:40 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

"People's minds aren't made for problems that large. White Walkers, the Night King, Army of the Dead. It's almost a relief to confront a comfortable, familiar monster like my sister." (Witty Insult)

37:50 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "Apparently, it can be turned into weapons that kill white walkers and their foot soldiers. Or stop them. Destroy them. Unsure about the nomenclature." (Funny Line)

38:14 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?"
Tyrion: "I would never do that."
To you.
The reason I believe Jon Snow is because he's here. (Funny Line)

I kind of thought Daenerys deserved some credit here for calling Tyrion out, but not exactly sure how to score it. Thoughts? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 taylorreneegoodrich likes this
Seems to be closest to a witty insult, but it's not really an insult. Maybe the secret discovery of Tyrion's imposture? He has been doing this for like ever and gotten through with it for most of the time. Dany seems to be the first person to see right through him, even if in a somewhat benevolent way :) -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
its comical... most of tyrion's lines are but the entire scene is just funny I think both Dany and tyrion should split points on this. -csepulveda2885

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione likes this
I thought that this was a Dany funny line for that last bit she had. -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 hkeseyan and Lem Lemoncake like this

38:14 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys catches Tyrion in one of his signature made-up proverbs and calls him out:

Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?" (Funny Line)

submitted by jedjackoway (approved!)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

29:27 (+5) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime takes a drink in Cersei's chambers as we all try to collectively erase the imagery of Euron sticking Cersei with the pointy end. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

30:10 (+20) Jaime Lannister:

Jaime gets his trousers dropped as Cersei is feeling extra thirsty after another exhilarating session of dungeon torturing her enemies. (Act of Intercourse)

14 more comments - see full thread

@hindsight44 I made a clarification here after @ssantise brought it up, the intention was to double the acts but not everything related to the scene: http://fantasora.com/event/3308

The scoring should be about what the viewers see. So they get credit for the on-screen butts and nudity. Presumably every sex scene (even the PG ones), all the characters see all the parts so the scoring wouldn't really work that way. We also previously defined that you need to touch one of these parts to count as sex, so just seeing each other wouldn't count. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
what's the verdict on this? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3
Let's go with just a double of all the sex points (the nudity and the act), so the points remain as they are currently. It's quite powerful, but so far this is the first and only instance in 7 seasons that we got incest-related nudity out of either character. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

Special

20:58 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Yara: "Look at them, cheering for a Greyjoy. I have to be honest, this is making me hard." (Special)

22:57 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

Cersei: "You've proven yourself the greatest captain of the Fourteen Seas." (Special)

24:08 (+3) Euron Greyjoy:

to Jaime: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

24:13 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Euron asks Jaime for advice on pleasing Cersei: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later." (Special)

50:08 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Archmaester Ebrose: "It's a meticulous, difficult procedure. Many Maesters whose chains are heavy with healing links have attempted it and failed. Yet you succeeded. How?"
Sam: "I read the books and followed the instructions." (Special)

61:26 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Olenna Tyrell: "I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes blood red, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father." (Special)

Would this also be a secret discovery? -easson27

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2017 Aug 1
There's a provision that the secret can't be "willingly told" by the secret holder, but we just had a lengthy debate that points towards removing that criteria: http://fantasora.com/event/3128

With the new criteria used for Edd, it possibly counts - Jaime is the only person who knows at this point and is in a position to disseminate that information. I've created it as a submission here: http://fantasora.com/event/3344 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
Didn't you already give him points for this earlier in the thread?? -benmfink414

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2017 Aug 4

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