Matchup: Jumping the Stark vs Hippity Hoppity Hodor for Ep 3

Rave of Thrones

Jumping the Stark (christopher.triolo)

Character	Drafted	Total	Politics	Insults
Tyrion Lannister Quick to wit and even quicker to the drink, Tyrion is the youngest of three Lannister children. After being exiled by his sister Cersei, he has joined with Daenerys Targaryen, serving as her Hand of the Queen and most trusted adviser.	#5	21	6	15
Randyll Tarly Samwell Tarly's disapproving father. He is the Lord of House Tarly, and was one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros.	#29	6	6	0
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#8	3	0	3
Tycho Nestoris A representative of the Iron Bank of Braavos, a powerful bank who holds a large sum of debt from the Iron Throne.	#56	3	3	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#17	0	0	0
Qhono A Dothraki bloodrider, he swears allegiance to Daenerys after she burns all of the other Khals alive in Dosh Khaleen.	#65	0	0	0
Qyburn The new Master of Whispers in King's Landing, loyally serving Queen Cersei Lannister. A disgraced former Maester, he engages in many scientific experiments in his dungeon lab	#20	0	0	0
Salladhor Saan A Pirate Lord from the Lys, a free city of Essos. He is an old friend of Ser Davos Seaworth and fought for Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.	#68	0	0	0
Melessa Tarly Samwell Tarly's mother.	#53	0	0	0
Eddison Tollett One of Jon Snow's few friends in the Night's Watch, he now serves as the Lord Commander after Jon deserts the order following his betrayal.	#41	0	0	0
Benjen Stark The First Ranger of the Night's Watch, Benjen has been lost for some time North of the Wall after being attacked by White Walkers while north of the Wall. After being saved by the Children of the Forest, he exists in an undead state, unable to pass back south of the Wall.	#44	0	0	0
Podrick Payne A squire in the service of Brienne of Tarth. He previously served as Tyrion Lannister's squire.	#32	0	0	0
Totals		33	15	18

Hippity Hoppity Hodor (wynnch)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Special
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#16	19	5	0	9	5	0
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#4	15	0	3	6	0	6
Melisandre A Red Priestess from Asshai, Melisandre has demonstrated mythical skill in blood magic, most recently reviving a deceased Jon Snow. After Davos Seaworth exposes her live sacrifice of the child Shireen Baratheon, she has been exiled by Jon Snow.	#21	3	0	0	3	0	0
Sam (Gilly's Baby) The incestuous son of Gilly and her father Craster. He travels with Gilly as she accompanies Samwell Tarly to Oldtown.	#64	0	0	0	0	0	0
Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#33	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#28	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ed Sheeran	#57	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and past, and has the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. After having encountered the Three-Eyed Raven and the Night King in the far north, he now flees back south to the Wall.	#9	0	0	0	0	0	0
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#40	0	0	0	0	0	0
Robett Glover The Head of House Glover, and bannerman to the Starks.	#45	0	0	0	0	0	0
Anya Waynwood Head of House Waynewood, bannermen to House Arryn.	#69	0	0	0	0	0	0
Alys Karstark	#52	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		37	5	3	18	5	6

Kills

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

Political Wins

0:00 (+3) Tycho Nestoris:

Tycho Nestoris reaches an agreement on behalf of the Iron Bank to grant Cersei an extension on the Iron Throne's loans, after Cersei convinces him that the alternative of "investing" in Daenerys Targaryen's regime would be unwise. (Deals Brokered)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

7 more comments - see full thread

Definitely this is not the Iron Bank of the books with regards to the slave trade. It disappoints me slightly as it seems to cut out some of the conspiracy theories behind the Iron Bank/Faceless Men having a greater, secret agenda going on in the background. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 hkeseyan likes this
@ssantise Tycho does not control The Iron Bank the same way Jon and Dany control their armies. The Iron Bank is subservient to Tycho, Tycho is subservient to The Iron Bank. This would be like Davos or Tyrion speaking on behalf of Jon or Dany. If we want to get bogged down into the details, there is real-life precedent for this, as corporations in the modern day are treated as their own entity.

But who better to explain it than Tywin Lannister himself? See this video from 1:50 to 2:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqIyVtlxbW8

The Iron Bank is its own entity, Tycho is an employee, he is an emissary, a broker for The Iron Bank in the literal sense of the word.

@hindsight44 you make a good point about the "gift" situation with Cersei and Euron. However, we explicitly see in that scene that Cersei declines the offer. Euron responds by explaining clearly that he will resume the talks only when he returns with his end of the deal. In this case, Tycho does not object to Cersei's request.

Another thing is that I think we are putting aside too many opportunities for convincing arguments and negotiations lately, and ignoring the fact that we have a betrayal category. A person's word means so much in Westeros, breaking oaths and loyalty are seen as a very significant event. We have a category just for these events, and we award points for betrayal. I say that unless we see a decline in a deal like this, we should score it as a deal and then see if betrayal occurs later. If Tycho breaks his end of the deal, or if Cersei breaks her end of the deal, that will be a very significant plot point that will be outlined in the show. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
I would offer Tycho's response as evidence, after Cersei states her case: "Your father's daughter, indeed."

It's not quite an explicit yes, but is a favorable response to everything Cersei just laid out. This is as opposed to Cersei's E1 response to Euron, which was an explicit "No." -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 hkeseyan likes this

36:48 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

After Jon Snow resigns himself to giving up on an alliance with Daenerys and returning to the North empty-handed, Tyrion convinces him to stay and find a compromise deal, leading him to ask for the dragonglass.

Tyrion: "After a single meeting, it's not a reasonable thing to ask. So, do you have anything reasonable to ask?"
Jon: "What do you mean?"
Tyrion: "Maybe you are a Northern fool. I'm asking if there's something I can do to help you." (Convincing Argument)

38:53 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion convinces Daenerys to give Jon Snow the dragonglass as a gesture of good faith with the North. "Let him mine the Dragonglass. If he's wrong, it's worthless. You didn't even know it was here. It's nothing to you. Give him something by giving him nothing. Take a step toward a more productive relationship with a possible ally." (Convincing Argument)

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly becomes Warden of the South, having accepted Jaime's previous offer to rebel against the Tyrells as he rides with the Lannister army in the attack on Highgarden. (New Title)

Assumptions made from his dialogue with Jaime in the last episode - did we even get to see Randyll Tarly this episode? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1
He was at the head of the army along with Jamie and Bronn and Dickon -tommyjames81

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and playabills like this
Here's a screencap, it's Randyll, Dickon and Bronn riding in formation at the beginning of the scene when they approach Highgarden: http://i.imgur.com/GzujWNO.jpg -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
They found the blandest, goofiest actor to replace old Dickon with. Kind of sad. -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1
He's just a big oaf now -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 1

55:56 (+3) Randyll Tarly:

Randyll Tarly betrays the Tyrells, to whom he is a sworn bannerman, siding with Lannisters and marching with their army in in the attack on Highgarden. (Act of Betrayal)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

0:00 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

calling back to Bronn's quote about the Eyrie: "Give me ten good men, and I'll impregnate the bitch" (Funny Line)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Melisandre:

to Varys: "I will return, dear Spider, one last time. I have to die in this strange country... just like you." (Threat)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

10 more comments - see full thread

Tyrion refers to himself as an imp quite a few times, doesn't make it any less insulting. Being referred to as a "spider" regardless if he personally uses it does not change the negative connotations around being referred to as a spider.

I think Melissandre's line was both eloquent and masterfully stated. First she calmly patronizes him as her "Dear Spider", in direct response to his threat (which is almost enough of insult for points alone). Then she cleverly follows this by referring to Westeroes as "this strange land". Finally she finishes of her beautiful line by returning the threat to Varys, that they both must die here. If she wanted to be dull and undeserving of points she would have just said "Varys you're gonna die in Westeroes." but she didn't. -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1
i think it was a great line and a threatening one. not an insult though. i'm not denying she should get points for the line at all; i agree she should get points for it being ominous and threatening, but not that it's an insult. that's all :) -ssleppy

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2017 Aug 1
I think context is what makes this a threat. Varys directly threatens her right before she says this. Before Varys threatened her she was passive and very open with Varys. This 180 attitude was to respond a threat with another threat. We have no evidence or proof to show this was definitvley from the flames, have Mel even interepted flames since Stannis?

Also this isnt a plain direct threat like Dany saying" Betray me and i will burn you alive." If there was no wit or innuendo Mel would have simply said "Varys you will die in Westeroes." But she did use wit.If you read between the lines what she meant by this was we are equals. Mel knows Varys hates magic and all who follow it, he has a very elitist and arrogant attitude when dealing with Magical entities (specifically priests of Rhollor). So when she says 'i will die here just like you.' she is saying get off your high horse you are no better than me, this country will claim both of us . Id say that is threatening and witty enough to warrant points. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 2 nyan likes this

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

34:07 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

to Jon Snow: "I came down here to brood over my failure to predict the Greyjoy attack. You're making it difficult. You look a lot better brooding than I do. You make me feel like I'm failing at brooding over failing." (Funny Line)

35:40 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

"People's minds aren't made for problems that large. White Walkers, the Night King, Army of the Dead. It's almost a relief to confront a comfortable, familiar monster like my sister." (Witty Insult)

37:50 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "Apparently, it can be turned into weapons that kill white walkers and their foot soldiers. Or stop them. Destroy them. Unsure about the nomenclature." (Funny Line)

38:14 (+3) Tyrion Lannister:

Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?"
Tyrion: "I would never do that."
To you.
The reason I believe Jon Snow is because he's here. (Funny Line)

I kind of thought Daenerys deserved some credit here for calling Tyrion out, but not exactly sure how to score it. Thoughts? -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 taylorreneegoodrich likes this
Seems to be closest to a witty insult, but it's not really an insult. Maybe the secret discovery of Tyrion's imposture? He has been doing this for like ever and gotten through with it for most of the time. Dany seems to be the first person to see right through him, even if in a somewhat benevolent way :) -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
its comical... most of tyrion's lines are but the entire scene is just funny I think both Dany and tyrion should split points on this. -csepulveda2885

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione likes this
I thought that this was a Dany funny line for that last bit she had. -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 hkeseyan and Lem Lemoncake like this

43:00 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Petyr Baelish: "I know Cersei better than anyone here. If you turn your back on her-"
Sansa: "You don't know Cersei better than anyone here."
Petyr: "I only meant to say-"
Sansa: "That the woman who murdered my mother, father, and brother is dangerous? Thank you for your wise counsel." (Witty Insult)

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Special

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

©
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