Matchup: jon snow dies vs Winter is Coming for Ep 5

jon snow dies (louis.xlxu)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Bronn A former sellsword, who has risen through the ranks of nobility thanks to his fighting skills and work for the Lannisters. He has accompanied Jaime Lannister on his missions to Dorne and Riverrun.	#22	18	0	3	15	0
Gendry A bastard son of Robert Baratheon, although this fact is not widely known (even to Gendry himself). After being captured by Melisandre, he is freed by Ser Davos and escaped Dragonstone by rowboat. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but he will likely emerge at some point with the swolest arms Westeros has ever seen.	#27	16	4	3	6	3
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#3	15	0	12	3	0
Archmaester Ebrose Archmaester at the Citadel in Oldtown, where new Maesters are trained.	#46	3	0	3	0	0
High Priestess of the Dosh Khaleen A priestess who leads the Dosh Khaleen, the widows of slain khals who preside over the holy city of Vaes Dothrak.	#63	0	0	0	0	0
Anguy A skilled archer from the Stormlands - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#58	0	0	0	0	0
Olyvar A former prostitute, Olyvar now manages Littlefinger's brothels while he is away in the Eyrie. He plays a key role in the Sparrows' indictment and imprisonment of Loras Tyrell.	#51	0	0	0	0	0
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#34	0	0	0	0	0
Euron Greyjoy The new King of the Iron Islands, after killing his brother Balon Greyjoy. He is described as cunning, ruthless, and with a touch of madness.	#15	0	0	0	0	0
Donnel Waynwood The Knight of the Gate, commander of the soldiers that defend the Bloody Gate that guards entrance into the Vale.	#70	0	0	0	0	0
Brienne of Tarth A skilled fighter and heir to House Tarth. After swearing an oath to Catelyn Stark, she continues her mission to ensure the safety of the Stark girls.	#10	0	0	0	0	0
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#39	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		52	4	21	24	3

Winter is Coming (eddy771)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Special
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#2	35	20	12	0	3
Gilly A wildling who lived north of the Wall. After she befriended Samwell Tarly, she escaped with him to Castle Black, and has sailed to Oldtown with Samwell as he begins his Maester's training.	#38	12	0	3	3	6
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#14	12	0	12	0	0
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#11	3	0	3	0	0
Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.	#47	0	0	0	0	0
Yezzan zo Qaggaz (slave trader) A slave trader from Yunkai. He briefly owns Jorah Mormont, who he brings to the fighting pits of Meereen, and is present during the slavers' attack on Meereen. He is the only slave master spared by Daenerys, who sends him to Astapor with a message for those who would oppose the Mother of Dragons.	#59	0	0	0	0	0
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#26	0	0	0	0	0
Frances (Qyburn's dwarf underling) A member of Varys' old spy network in King's Landing, now working for Qyburn.	#62	0	0	0	0	0
Hot Pie An orphan from King's Landing. He works at the Inn at the Crossroads as a baker.	#71	0	0	0	0	0
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#23	0	0	0	0	0
Nymeria Sand One of Oberyn Martell's bastards, known as Sand Snakes. She's into whips.	#35	0	0	0	0	0
Aeron Greyjoy An uncle of Theon Greyjoy, who serves as a priest to the Drowned God.	#50	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		62	20	30	3	9

Kills

10:41 (+20) Daenerys Targaryen:

After they refuse to bend the knee, Daenerys has Randyll and Dickon Tarly executed by dragonfire.

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Kill of Named Character)

The most amazing part of this is that Daenerys doesn't chortle while saying "Dickon Tarly". The composure of a true and rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 alicehanners, vjdev2015, Lem Lemoncake, WampaLord like this
They chose to die rather than bend the knee, not sure I agree with giving her kill credit -nickcota

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2017 Aug 15
These are the points that come direct from Drogon burning them (which are given to Daenerys due to her special). In keeping with the direct kills only change, Daenerys would not be getting any points simply for ordering the kill. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15

39:28 (+4) Gendry:

After Davos's charade begins to break down, Gendry brings out his warhammer to smash in the faces of the two investigating Gold Cloaks. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

7:15 (+6) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rounds up the Lannister prisoners in the aftermath of the battle, which include Randyll and Dickon Tarly. (New Follower/Prisoner)

She does say that she isn't putting people in chains, does this count? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
They all bent the knee theyre followers not prisoners -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
They're prisoners of war for the few hours post-battle. She decides she doesn't want to keep them around as prisoners, but the fact that she can make that decision about their fates shows that they are her prisoners I think. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech likes this
How does that then work with Jon and Davos? They're being held against their will, but she also says clearly that they are not her prisoners ("not yet"). -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
It seems pretty easy to just ask the question in a pragmatic way - do the characters have any freedom of movement or action, or are they compelled to stay in the custody of another character? The Tarlys are clearly in Daenerys' custody, Jon/Davos were definitely floating close to it in the initial meeting (since they had their weapons and boat taken away too). -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech and amaltazyan like this

9:32 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rejects Tyrion's pleas for mercy or alternative punishments for the Lannister army, choosing to burn those who will not bend.

"I meant what I said. I'm not here to put them in chains. If that becomes an option many will take it. I gave them a choice. They made it." (Executive Decision)

11:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

With the delivery of the Tyrell gold and a repayment of debts to the Iron Bank, Cersei secures a new loan: "We have the Tyrell gold, we have the Iron Bank behind us. We can buy mercenaries." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

12:57 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime explains to Cersei that it was Olenna Tyrell who had assassinated Joffrey, not Tyrion.

Jaime: "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died."
Cersei: "And this was before or after she drank the poison you so kindly provided her?"
Jaime: "After."
Cersei: "And you believed her?"
Jaime: "If you were Olenna, would you rather have seen your granddaughter married to Joffrey or Tommen? Which one would Margaery have been better able to control? Which one would have made Olenna the true ruler of the Seven Kingdoms? She was telling the truth." (Secret Discovery)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei rejects Jaime's plea to find a peaceful solution out of the conflict with Daenerys.

Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

same idiocy by me, Overrulibg decision. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
same principle as her oberruling jaime with Euron -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Did any decision come out of this? I'm not sure that Jaime had a proposal or that Cersei had an order at the end of the day. It was sort of an expression of sentiments, Jaime saying they can't win against dragons and Cersei saying they'll still fight on and find a way. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
Overuling doesnt mean mean you need to order anything. Her decision was to stay the course against a third parties disaproval. In a court of law a judge uses overrule so the subject can stay the course and not accept whatever arguement the lawyer is trying to present. Cersei didnt give an order or change anything at all when she Overuled Jaimes advice to meet with Euron, she simply stayed the course after overuling her generals advice. Also this was clearly not a simple tit for tat conversation, Jaime says at the beginning of the episode he has to tell Cersei how bad this is. As general of her army in his next scene he specifcally went to her to try and convince her that this is a war that they will lose. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Yeah I think that works as a light decision. Jaime didn't have a concrete solution but he was sort of proposing that they start looking for alternate, peaceful solutions and that was rejected pretty strongly. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

18:06 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After getting that infection checked out at the Maester Clinic, Daenerys happily accepts Jorah Mormont back into service as her First Sword of the Friendzone.

Jorah: "I return to your service, my Queen, if you'll have me." (New Follower/Prisoner)

19:39 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King breaks Bran's warg connection to his ravens, dispersing the scouting flock sent north of the Wall. (Victorious Battle)

Fairly minor "engagement" if we can even call it that? -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech, jedjackoway, playabills like this
The rules say that these points are for within the scope of a battle. I think this will set a precedent where minor actions are considered battle wins. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 hkeseyan, jake.kmiech, craigdietz20 like this
I wouldn't extend it that far (for minor actions in battles). Rather, this was the sum of the engagement (the ravens on a scouting mission, which was repelled). If this was one shot as a part of a larger battle, I don't think it counts as a battle victory at all. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I had thought this would be under discovery of a secret in that he now knows that Bran was attempting to scout out his army -cfitzgerald

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2017 Aug 15 hindsight44, jake.kmiech, talindsey like this
I agree how is this a win for the night king. To me bran came out with the information so regardless it was a successful scouting mission . -talindsey

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2017 Aug 15
Nothing really happened. :| -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 16 jedjackoway, playabills, craigdietz20 like this

22:09 (+3) Archmaester Ebrose:

Archmaester Ebrose rejects Sam's pleas to immediately alert the realm about the impending White Walker invasion as the Council of Maesters discusses a letter sent by Maester Wolkan of Winterfell about the army of the dead.

Samwell Tarly: "Archmaester, please. It's real. I've seen it."
Ebrose: "We will write to Maester Wolkan at Winterfell for clarification. I promise you we will get to the truth of it one way or another."
Sam: "Archmaester, please-"
Ebrose: "That will be all, Tarly." (Executive Decision)

submitted by Ser Vincent (approved!)

32:25 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

36:24 (+3) Gendry:

Gendry unveils the massive warhammer he's fashioned for himself. "I don't know much about swinging swords. But this... this I know." (New Weapon)

41:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei reveals that she is already aware of Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting.

Cersei: "Are you going to punish him?"
Jaime: "Tyrion?"
Cersei: "Bronn. He betrayed you. He set up a meeting without your knowledge or consent. Do you think anything of importance happens in this city without me knowing?" (Secret Discovery)

47:25 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly learns about a secret marriage by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen recorded in a book by High Septon Maynard.

Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Secret Discovery)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

7 more comments - see full thread

If Gilly gets the points, Sam should too. She has about as much use with it as he does, but they both now know it -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 16
For Sam, I'd argue that he sort of blew Gilly off to the point of not even hearing what she said. But if he brings it up again ("hey were you saying something before about a Prince Ragger?") then we could count it then?

This is why you stay an attentive listener to your girlfriends, guys. Fantasy points, think about the fantasy points. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16 xdwxrd, kevinpetsky, jake.kmiech like this
ahem -alexanderdropkin

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2017 Aug 29

51:24 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger acquires the only copy of a raven letter written by Sansa while she was in King's Landing, when she was compelled by Cersei to ask Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Secret Discovery)

Ehhh. :| Secret? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 16
He already knew about this, how else would he ask for that specific letter? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 16
It does fall a little bit between Secret and acquiring a valuable item, like a weapon. He knows of the existence of the letter, but now he wields that information on concrete form which he can use to blackmail Sansa, influence the Northern lords, or sow the seeds of doubt to Arya. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
it's not a secret but it is a Secret Discovery... the letter was clearly not known to exist among others in Winterfell. -pacelli929

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2017 Aug 17 nyan likes this
Yeah, it's not a secret discovery for 'this' character though. He's not discovering anything, why is he getting points for it. -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 17
I could change it to "loot" which was a new subcategory added in another discussion about Cersei/Tycho acquiring the Tyrell gold and securing a new Iron Bank loan. I think people could agree it is like a New Weapon, but an informational one rather than a physical one? In any case the scores are the same. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 jedjackoway likes this

51:24 (+6) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger has been using Maester Wolkan to dig through the Winterfell archives, portraying it as a command by Sansa Stark.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Act of Betrayal)

53:54 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger snoops from the shadows, having observed Arya Stark tracking him and breaking into his room. (Secret Discovery)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

4:22 (+3) Bronn:

to Jaime: "Listen to me, cunt. Until I get what I'm owed, a dragon doesn't get to kill you. You don't get to kill you. Only I get to kill you." (Funny Line)

4:35 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "That was only one of them. She has two more. If she decides to use them, to really use them-"
Bronn: "You're fucked."
Jaime: "Don't you mean we're fucked?"
Bronn: "No, I do not." (Funny Line)

This is part of a convo where Bronn also talks about the stupidity of Jaime running up to a dragon to try and 'end the war'. Also deciding to no longer fight for your army because it faces certain defeat is a fighting strategy. (live to fight another day) Any love for this being a Bronn special? I feel like hes talks alot about fighting this episode and last but hasnt got any points for it. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
Need to address the submissions from E4. I didn't initially score any of these since they seemed to fall short of Bronn's previous lines, which were generally more instructive or "technical", and these were mostly general comments about the battle (any soldier could have said them, they weren't specific to Bronn's expertise). I think some of these lines could work though, but I do think there's a line that prevents Bronn's special from being a score anytime he says anything battle-related.

There's a list of existing scores for Bronn's special if you scroll down: http://fantasora.com/char/23 -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I hear what youre saying and i think if you take everything Bronn has said about fighting in the past two episodes there are about ten different quotes that can be directly linked to fighting. Im not saying he should get points for everything said but i think its even more extreme to give him none at all.

In e4: Discussing with Jaime whether or not to stay is directly talking strategy, so is in a later scene deciding whether or not who is best fit to use the Scorpion.

E5: Letting Jaime know that riding up to a dragon to end a war and then saying you will no longer fight for him because its a lost cause is about fighting strategy(i think this combined points should be one special.) Also in a later scene telling Jaime the reason he can fight in old age is because he trains alot is also talking fighting strategy.

i would also suggest that there is some language put in Bronns special that it requires his expertise for it to count. Cersei isnt an expert at pouring wine, Sansa isnt an expert at crying, There isnt a specific type of book sam has to read for it to be read from a book. I chose Bronn because he is the #2 to the General of the Lannister army and they would be talking about general fighting strategies alot. If i knew that it was only expertise i would have chosen someone different. Also Davos says funny things alot that didnt stop him from getting 30 points for every single joke he made. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 nyan, talindsey, elemnwuke, alih1991, 2 others like this
So for Bronn's special, I've added one in from E4 here, and you can find the discussion there about my thoughts on the criteria for Bronn's "strategy/tactics" line: http://fantasora.com/event/3455

I'll agree it's not so well written - you'll see there is a common thread in the previous scores that Bronn has a hard-on for trenches being dug the right way, having proper footwork, and what kind of armor he prefers to wear and that was the idea behind his Special. They're lines about this really niche fighting stuff that only Bronn would think about. Contrast to here, where you could literally drop in any character that could have told Jaime "Three Dragons? You're fucked." If he started talking about the weight of the bolts he fired or how thick the dragon scale was, that's a classic Bronn line.

I've changed the wording a bit on Bronn's special to better reflect that - it now reads "+1 point when he gives expert critique/advice on fighting strategy". -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

4:45 (+3) Bronn:

Bronn: "Dragons are where our partnership ends. I'm not gonna be around when those things start spitting fire on King's Landing."
Jaime: "I have to tell Cersei."
Bronn: "May as well jump back in that river." (Funny Line)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime Lannister: "[Olenna's] dead, like her son, her grandchildren, her whole house. And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Witty Insult)

31:51 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "We don't have time for this, we should be preparing the city for a siege. The Dothraki are coming."
Bronn: "All the more reason for you to train. Unless you plan on fighting Dothraki twelve-year-olds." (Witty Insult)

32:04 (+3) Bronn:

Jaime: "Why (do swordfight training) down here?"
Bronn: "I don't think you want people to see how you look swinging that thing yet." (Witty Insult)

43:06 (+3) Gendry:

Gendry bulldozes into his introduction with Jon Snow, after Davos warns him to do the exact opposite.

Davos: "The king's got a lot on his mind."
Gendry: "I understand."
Davos: "He doesn't need to be thinking about harboring the bastard of a dead king."
Gendry: "You don't have to worry."
Davos: "You're just Clovis, a smith who's come to pay his respects before he heads off to work at the Winterfell forges."
Gendry: "Understood."
...
Davos: "Your Grace, this is Clo-"
Gendry: "Name's Gendry, Your Grace. I'm Robert Baratheon's son. Bastard son." (Funny Line)

43:22 (+3) Gendry:

Jon Snow: "I saw your father once at Winterfell."
Gendry: "I met yours in my shop."
Jon: "You're a lot leaner."
Gendry: "And you're a lot shorter." (Funny Line)

47:58 (+3) Gilly:

Samwell Tarly, complaining about his menial scribing tasks: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!"
Gilly: "Steps. That number was the steps." (Funny Line)

Special

10:24 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Special)

34:24 (+3) Gendry:

Gendry heats a new sword in the coals in the blacksmith shop. (Special)

46:52 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly recites some Maester trivia she has just learned: "Do you know how many steps there are in the Citadel? 15,782." (Special)

47:24 (+3) Gilly:

Gilly learns about annulments and a secret marriage.

Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Special)

The Feels

15:08 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys says her goodbyes to Jorah once again, as she takes his hands into hers.

Daenerys: "We should be better at saying farewell by now."
Jorah: "Your Grace, I-" (stunned speechless by actual physical contact) (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

©
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