Droppin Hot Pies

52.5 roto pts (#2)
Z-Score: 1.056 (percentile: 85.46%)
Weeks at #1: 1
Categories won: Kills (887)
Best Week: Episode 2: Stormborn (+9 roto points)
Team MVP: Daenerys Targaryen (picked #1, 923 points, 85.54% of team total)

Roster Stats

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths	Special
Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	#1	923	858	33	12	0	10	7	3
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#16	55	5	18	9	5	0	0	18
Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	#17	45	24	6	0	0	15	0	0
Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#33	30	0	3	6	10	0	5	6
Hot Pie An orphan from King's Landing. He works at the Inn at the Crossroads as a baker.	#64	15	0	3	0	0	0	0	12
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#32	11	0	0	3	5	0	0	3
Salladhor Saan A Pirate Lord from the Lys, a free city of Essos. He is an old friend of Ser Davos Seaworth and fought for Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.	#49	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.	#48	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		1079	887	63	30	20	25	12	42

Roster

charId	Character	Special
31	Daenerys Targaryen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. With her three dragons and army of Unsullied soldiers she carved out an empire of liberated slave cities in the east, and she now sets her sights westward as she sails for the Seven Kingdoms to reclaim the Iron Throne.	* Announcing her titles: "Mother of Dragons", "Breaker of Chains", etc. (min. of 2 titles)
40	Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	+1 point for reading books, mentioning he "read that in a book", or writing raven letters.
38	Grey Worm The leader of the Unsullied - a highly-trained army of freed slaves who serve Daenerys Targaryen.	* +1 for every 3-syllable word uttered in the Common Tongue (Westerosi English), not counting proper nouns (Daenerys, Unsullied, etc.) * Receives standard sex points for making it to first base
91	Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	+1 for invoking the name of Oberyn Martell
102	Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	+1 point every time he revives someone. +1 when shown igniting his flaming sword
92	Edmure Tully Catelyn Stark's brother, and the heir to House Tully and Riverrun. He is held as a prisoner of Lord Walder Frey after the betrayal at the Red Wedding.
55	Salladhor Saan A Pirate Lord from the Lys, a free city of Essos. He is an old friend of Ser Davos Seaworth and fought for Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.
104	Hot Pie An orphan from King's Landing. He works at the Inn at the Crossroads as a baker.	+1 point for every baked good or other food he prepares

Kills

Episode 2: Stormborn

33:54 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell plies off the infected Greyscale tissue from Jorah's chest, with all the gentleness of a spoon digging through hot pie. (Major Injury of Named Character)

28 more comments - see full thread

You referenced Tyrion's scar which is tiny compared to that of a burn victim. So even if we made the criteria: Tyrion's scar or larger, I think we would still see quite a few injuries that might have otherwise been considered minor now being considered major.

Also real life burn victims don't have access to the medical ointments that Samwell is applying to Jorah, for all we know Jorah could come out of this looking like nothing happened. And I can assure you if that's the case I will definitely be arguing for these points to be removed retroactively. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
Is anyone else having trouble with trades mine won't allow accept ion, rejection, or counter
-talindsey

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2017 Jul 28
@ssantise admittedly they've minimized Tyrion's scar in subsequent seasons. If you recall back to S2 they made a big thing about having bandaged up his entire face and was worried that Shae wouldn't love him anymore. I do think that if Tyrion recovers from the battle, has a cosmetic scar but they don't really make a big thing about it, it wouldn't be a major injury. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

53:50 (+2) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm slits the throat of a Lannister guard, after sneaking past the walls of Casterly Rock via the sewer tunnels. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

It is a little difficult to differentiate Grey Worm from the rest of the Unsullied, but he has a badge with three dragons on the clavicle of his armor which seems to be unique to him, which was used to identify him in the battle scenes: http://imgur.com/a/BGogM

This first kill is the only ambiguous one as the clavicle piece is not visible, but it seems to credibly be him based on the parts of face that are visible. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
The shield kills that are being counting aren't confirmed kills. Minor injuries at best. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
which is 8 of his point this episode. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 1
In the rulebook for Kills.IV we have a rule for: "Pretty much any kind of strike on random extras is counted for a kill unless the extra is shown to be explicitly alive after. This is applied often for large battle scenes."

It's just a lot easier to count, else there are a lot of nitpicky debates that some strike is on a non-fatal region, or the shield bash didn't look strong enough, etc. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

54:22 (+8) Grey Worm :

Leading the Unsullied, Grey Worm stabs two Lannister soldiers while charging the stairs, and smashes two more with his shield. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:29 (+14) Grey Worm :

At the top of the stairs, Grey Worm kills 7 Lannister soldiers, throwing his spear to impale the last one against a door. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

40:10 (+66) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys, riding on Drogon's back, breaks the line of Lannister soldiers with a breath of fire. "Dracarys." (Kill of Unnamed Character)

33 soldiers killed in the opening salvo:

25 visible on the Lannnister line - http://imgur.com/0qEMB2F
8 visible fleeing behind the line - http://imgur.com/1xqyL2U

Full screencap log of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi

The scoring methodology is similar to ones previous used for mass-kill scenes like the Battle of Blackwater, and the Sept of Baelor explosion, and Drogon's previous fights. All visible bodies that are dying or dead from the particular kill method are counted up (not too much debate this episode, since there were no other fire-wielders). However no further assumptions or speculations are made that a larger group must've died.

For instance in this event, the two shots cover all the visible soldiers - while one may reasonably assume that there are more burned soldiers along the line that are not visible behind the fireball, we can't see them and therefore they won't contribute to the kill count. -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 righteous, jake.kmiech, Lem Lemoncake, jgiuliano like this
Shouldn't Drogon get these points, not Daenerys? She was just riding him. :) -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
Yeah, just read Daenerys' game breaking rules. No point playing this unless you have her so... -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
People keep saying this ^ but I am literally 7th in my league rn even with Dany. Like all y'all need to chill -e.a.givney

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2017 Aug 10 Lem Lemoncake, alicehanners, jedjackoway, Laxis, 2 others like this

41:43 (+68) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and Drogon make a strafing run on the Lannister caravan, torching 34 soldiers and a dozen loot wagons in the process. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

34 soldiers in this overhead strafing run:

8 unsuspecting soldiers fighting off the Dothraki screamers - http://imgur.com/GDoImMo
5 in first overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/gddiaYS
3 in second overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/6CsF3JL
2 in third overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/0cPmxxT
5 in fourth overhead sequence - http://imgur.com/wRELUKt
5 in fifth overhead sequence, second breath - http://imgur.com/b5iMLBe
2 in sixth overhead sequence, second breath - http://imgur.com/lSZiCfZ
4 in landscape shot, third breath - http://imgur.com/JkZrF5H
alternate angle showing no collateral off-road damage in landscape shot -
http://imgur.com/2rXABWj

Full screencap of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 righteous, Lem Lemoncake, jgiuliano like this
Why is Daenerys getting points for another named characters kills? Drogon deserves these points, not his passenger.

And this even nails my point: "Full screencap of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan " It isn't Daenerys killing these characters, its DROGON. He's an intelligent being in the storyline. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
All the dragons actions are attributed to Dany. clearly says it in her special. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 10 kimberly.ramia likes this
Doesn't make the fact that she just got four seasons worth of points in one episode any less gamebreaking. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
Bruh Arya got 108 in one episode lol -e.a.givney

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2017 Aug 10 kimberly.ramia likes this

42:39 (+36) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and Drogon begin a second strafing run after a volley of arrows from Jaime Lannister's archers fail to have any effect. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

18 killed in the second strafing run:

7 in the strafing shot http://imgur.com/llrvfXd
4 running away and getting scorched - http://imgur.com/UIMLpnN
1 soldier engulfed in fire - http://imgur.com/rsbOE7S
3 burning bodies - http://imgur.com/dAdovFb
3 more burning bodies - http://imgur.com/kzeKDwy

Full screencap log of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 righteous, Lem Lemoncake, jgiuliano like this
I don't think we should count the bodies that are already burning. There's a very good chance these are bodies that were already counted from the initial blast. If we don't see them burnt from a specific blast (and not repeat shots of the same blast - which you did an excellent job of not counting those, by the way), then I don't think we should count them -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 IPKOB, playabills, emilien.raggi, charles.e.r.coutu, 2 others like this
I don't think we should count the bodies that are already burning. There's a very good chance these are bodies that were already counted from the initial blast. If we don't see them burnt from a specific blast (and not repeat shots of the same blast - which you did an excellent job of not counting those, by the way), then I don't think we should count them -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 IPKOB, playabills, emilien.raggi like this
p.s. I'm referring to #79-84 -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8
Why is Daenerys getting points for another named characters kills? Drogon deserves these points, not his passenger. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10
Since this one shows up a little earlier in the event log, an extended discussion of the counting methodology for Dany/Drogon's kills can be found here: http://fantasora.com/event/3448 -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

44:07 (+6) Daenerys Targaryen:

As Bronn runs through the chaos of the battlefield, he shoves aside a burning Lannister soldier and encounters two other burning men. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

46:03 (+22) Daenerys Targaryen:

Jaime surveys the losing battle, witnessing a field of Lannister soldiers being burned alive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

3 burning soldiers in the field - http://imgur.com/BPYtj95
3 burning soldiers near water - http://imgur.com/dq6a1yV
5 burning soldiers as one removes his helmet and tries to make it to the water - http://imgur.com/3Ci9J1h

Full screencap log of Drogon kills - http://imgur.com/gallery/2zESi -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 jgiuliano and kimberly.ramia like this
Again, bodies burning without showing the blast = high chance we are double-counting -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 mrudd27, playabills, emilien.raggi, IPKOB, 3 others like this
Why is Daenerys getting points for another named characters kills? Drogon deserves these points, not his passenger. -kyaathecatlord

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2017 Aug 10

46:31 (+32) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and Drogon go on a third strafing run, flying over the river and targeting Jaime Lannister's position. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

44 more comments - see full thread

Reading over the complaint of the few using direct scoring... I'm not convinced that should be my problem. I need all the points possible if I'm going to win overall, even though I'm in direct H2H. -righteous

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2017 Aug 15
Alright, here is the final resolution on this.

I see the problems caused by Daenerys' mega-event performance for the season-long Direct-Scoring leagues, and it seems unlikely that I'll convince most of these leagues to switch over into a new scoring format. To offer a pragmatic and generic solution specifically for these leagues, I've created a new Ruleset 5.0b, which is the same as Ruleset 5.0 except that it offers a per-episode point cap on character performance. Currently this cap has been hit only twice, with Daenerys getting a -143pt adjustment in E4 and Arya getting a -11 adjustment in E1.

You can preview these new scores on the Episode and League pages by appending the ?rulesetId=11 argument into the url. For example: http://fantasora.com/game/1/season/8/subunit/4?rulesetId=11

League Admins can switch the Ruleset at any time by visiting the Edit League page. I'd discuss this with the other players in your Leagues before unilaterally moving to it, but the choice is there for any League Admins.

In general, the counting methodology and Daenerys' points will remain as-is, which is that a classification of a body as "duplicate" will require some evidence that they are duplicates (unique insignia on the armor, or perhaps pinpointing exact locations). To that end, the arguments made in this thread weren't convincing enough, in light of the multiple Drogon strikes for which the impacts are not shown, and all the wagons being a fairly generic design (so "these two scenes both feature burning soldiers with wagons nearby" is not really credible when wagons were ubiquitous across the battlefield).

Hopefully this provides a clear counting methodology for the future, and provides an adequately balanced solution for the direct-scoring leagues this season. Roto and H2H leagues, as previously discussed, ought to handle the disputed ~30pts swing inherently with their scoring formats. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hindsight44, emilien.raggi, hkeseyan like this
Thank you nyan, this is a great solution -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

49:08 (+4) Daenerys Targaryen:

Drogon gets to roasts two consolation horses after Bronn tackles Jaime Lannnister out of the way from his ill-fated charge at Daenerys. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

10:41 (+20) Daenerys Targaryen:

After they refuse to bend the knee, Daenerys has Randyll and Dickon Tarly executed by dragonfire.

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Kill of Named Character)

The most amazing part of this is that Daenerys doesn't chortle while saying "Dickon Tarly". The composure of a true and rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 alicehanners, vjdev2015, Lem Lemoncake, WampaLord like this
They chose to die rather than bend the knee, not sure I agree with giving her kill credit -nickcota

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2017 Aug 15
These are the points that come direct from Drogon burning them (which are given to Daenerys due to her special). In keeping with the direct kills only change, Daenerys would not be getting any points simply for ordering the kill. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

51:38 (+604) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys and her three dragons ride in to save the day for Jon Snow, Jorah, Tormund, the Hound, and Beric, laying waste to a massive number of wights with their dragonfire. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

7 more comments - see full thread

There is already a 100 point cap for raw scoring, and for the perspective of a head to head match, dany totaly deserve to win her match for a specific episode where she uses her dragons so 200 or 600 points doesn't make a difference, that's why she is ranked #1 for the draft. Go check the post about dany in episode 4 for more info. -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech likes this
I agree with tommy James. There is not point limit on raw scoring. Danerys got 604 points for the dang dragons. The leader of our league is 800+ points ahead of 2nd -playabills

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2017 Aug 24
For this season it'll stay where it is, out of consistency/fairness. But as we approach the endgame of the show, where we may be getting a dragon-roasting every episode or in the majority of episodes, it does become more of a balance issue.

Some of it may take care of itself, as the dragons are now split off to competing allegiances (Viserion for the Night King, and other characters can steal the dragon points if they become a rider). But at most we still end up with 3 characters dominating the field. The dragons themselves could also be made individually draftable.

For Roto this problem takes care of itself - you can spend your likely first round pick on a dragon character, who might instantly put you top 3 in the Kills category, but will give you nothing else but that stat (a common tradeoff, and typically an inefficient one). For the other leagues, perhaps we may consider some alternative drafting options that will make them cost a fairer value (allow draft pick trading, or implement auction/salary cap leagues). Or perhaps a league may selectively ban certain characters from the draft list, or choose their own league-specific nerfs (e.g. all points from this OP character list will be halved or even 1/10th'd). Part of the problem is that people have an assessment that the dragons are somewhere between mildly to extremely OP, and it's hard to come up with a way to compensate for that without pinning the value, so for the site I think everyone will be more satisfied if the leagues/players have the options to set that nerfing value for themselves.

Doing the point cap thing, or coming up with an arbitrary fractional kill is my least preferred option, mostly from a stat-keeping purity standpoint. -nyan

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, alex.pi, Lem Lemoncake, hkeseyan like this

Political Wins

Episode 1: Dragonstone

27:02 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell has officially made it to grad-school life, having been admitted as a student of the Citadel. His first task is latrine duty. (New Title)

45:38 (+3) Thoros of Myr:

While looking into Thoros' flames, Sandor Clegane discovers the location of the planned White Walker invasion - Eastwatch-by-the-Sea - a secret which Thoros and the Brotherhood seem to already be aware of.
---
Sandor Clegane: "Ice. A wall of ice. The Wall. ... It's where the Wall meets the sea. There's a castle there. There's a mountain. Looks like an arrowhead. The dead are marching past. Thousands of them."
Beric: "Do you believe me now, Clegane?" (Secret Discovery)

50:13 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

As Samwell flips the pages of the restricted Maester books, he discovers that Dragonstone sits on a literal mountain of dragonglass, a weapon crucial to defeating the White Walkers. (Secret Discovery)

52:08 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys reclaims her ancestral home, the abandoned castle of Dragonstone, once commanded by Stannis Baratheon. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

Episode 2: Stormborn

0:00 (+3) Hot Pie:

Hot Pie learns that Arya Stark is back in Westeros after recognizing her at the inn. (Secret Discovery)

submitted by EvanWolfe (approved!)

21:06 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys overrules the direct assault advocated by the Greyjoys, Tyrells, and Dornish, opting for a less violent siege on King's Landing and attack on Casterly Rock. (Executive Decision)

I will admit that I did not play in the league last year but just like the rule about brokering a deal that you must be a third party this seems to fall under the same logic.
According to the rulebook: Overruling: An "executive" decision is made unilaterally over the protest of at least 1 third party involved in the discussion
Overruling doesn't apply to a second party who is the target of the discussion.

Daenerys is the second party and the target of the discussion. The Greyjoys, Tyrells, and Dornish are trying to convince her and her army to do something not a third party. Danerys is speaking on her own behalf not for someone else. I feel that is directly falls under the exception stated in the rulebook
-ssantise

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2017 Jul 24
The 2nd party is meant as the target of the decision. So for Joffrey executing Ned, Ned is the 2nd party, so obviously his disagreement will be overridden, but if any small council members protested they would be counted as opposition. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24
Yes and i believe Daenerys and her army are the target of the decision. My argument was constructed around the logic behind the reasoning for brokering a deal role. Which was designed so characters like vayrs and little finger can get points but not characters like Jon Snow and Daenerys since they will allready be getting points when the actual event occurs e.g. (when Daenerys actually follows through with the attack on Casterly Rock and King's Landing) -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24
she will get her points then

forgot to add this to my last comment -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24
Hmmm @ssantise you make a fair point. I suppose a rules rewording may be in order, to better get behind the spirit of the idea: if Joffrey orders Ned to be executed, and everybody is onboard with it except for Ned who obviously is not, it's not a very politically tough decision - there is nobody Joffrey had to convince or overrule to carry it out. Here Daenerys has credible resistance to her decision, and she either has to convince or intimidate her allies into obeying. I suppose in the Joffrey case, the thing about Ned's opposition that doesn't matter is not that he's the 2nd party, but that as a prisoner he doesn't have any political power that would matter in the decision. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

30:55 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell sneaks into Jorah's room to try an experimental Greyscale treatment on him, despite Archmaester Ebrose's forbidding him to do so. (Executive Decision)

12 more comments - see full thread

a key component of an executive decision is that the decision is made to someone who you have power over. it cant be 'Executive' without that power dynamic. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24 nyan likes this
'Naughty' points? -xdwxrd

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise I would not necessarily hold that followers and decisions are intertwined. Samwell is not directly a follower of the Archmaester, however the Archmaester is still making Citadel-wide rules for all Maesters (and Maesters-in-training), which Samwell must obey as part of the order. Just like a student is not necesarily a follower of a principal, but the principal can still make school-wide decisions that affect all the students. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

38:07 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell's letter is the final straw that convinces Jon Snow to ally with Daenerys Targaryen.

"This message was sent to me by Samwell Tarly. He was my brother at the Night's Watch. A man I trust as much as anyone in this world. He's discovered proof that Dragonstone sits on a mountain of dragonglass." (Convincing Argument)

14 more comments - see full thread

I don't like the idea of tweaking the rulebook constantly so that everyone can get as many points of possible. I think its important to have a concrete set of rules that we can all rely on. I agree that there must be room for changes as the show evolves but I feel there should be a bit more formality around making substantial changes to the rulebook. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
@hindsight44 one definition of the word argument is a two-way debate that involves dialogue. but a "convincing argument" is just a one-way statement. if people exchange convincing arguments, that entire dialogue can be considered an argument. if an attorney presents an argument at a case, they are the only ones speaking, until the other side present their argument(s). if someone writes a critical essay (or like in this case, a letter), they are making a single argument to persuade the reader of something. these are all one-way arguments -hkeseyan

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise and @hkeseyan, basically you are both on the sides that I'm trying to balance when refining the scorekeeping. As @ssantise says, for consistency and fairness, the rules shouldn't change drastically. And definitely not for reasons like "we want there to be as many scores as possible". But as @hkeseyan and I'm sure lots of people realized, there are lots of areas to improve on the scoring rules, and that's especially true since the original rules were just what I could think of on my own when I started the game - each year lots of players are bringing in new ideas and are continually making the game better, and we still haven't quite reached the point where everything if fully stabilized.

For this convincing argument case, I think @hkeseyan gets at a better spirit of the rules for scoring, which isn't strictly about the decision by a character being reversed, but simply a character effectively convincing another to go with their plan of action (but with some real effort needed to convince, not simply "Hey man you wanna kill some Lannisters? Sure let's do it.").

In hindsight it was a mistake on my part to word it concretely around a decision being already made - I had been thinking too narrowly about examples like Robert and his Small Council, and it doesn't cover things like a brooding, indecisive Jon even though that was the intention.

So given that, I'll change that rulebook line to the following:

A character can be "convinced" only after they had initially decided in the opposite decision, or shown some resistance or indecision to the arguments.

Definitely it's not taken lightly and I understand each of these changes affects the scoring expectations negatively. For the most part I hope all of these tweaks are getting closer in line with the spirit of what deserves scoring. And I believe, is not inconsistent with what we've scored before (if anyone is finding examples of rejected scores because a character was simply indecisive vs. fully decided in the opposite direction, let me know. But otherwise I think this is the first time it's come up.) -nyan

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2017 Jul 31 ssantise likes this

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Victorious Battle)

Greywoem may have won the battle, but isn't it Danaerys who actually wins the castle? -mary.d.piccione

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Did he win the castle? Or did Euron trap him in the castle? -Th3 JaBBeRWoCK

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2017 Aug 1
I think we'll count it even as a temporary or pyrrhic victory. As for Dany, in general it feels like this is a point for the general who leads the battle, but it can transfer to Daenerys once she gets her boots on the ground, or if we get a line from Grey Worm like "the castle is yours, your Grace." -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
-Elon

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2017 Aug 2
Battle of the Bastards did result in Battle Victory points for Ramsay (http://fantasora.com/event/2892). In the rulebook it states that large battles can be divided up and have multiple victory points awarded for each segment. Think of it like an Assault map for a game like Battlefield or TF2, there are intermediate points for each objective taken. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

54:48 (+3) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm and his Unsullied step over the bodies of dead Lannister soldiers atop the walls at Casterly Rock, surveying their victory in taking the castle. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

40:04 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Ignoring the stern advice of Tyrion and all her other advisors, Daenerys finally puts herself and her dragons into action, riding Drogon into the field of battle to attack the Lannister caravan. (Executive Decision)

49:30 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Although Drogon is injured, Daenerys and her Dothraki horde are successful in attacking the wagon train of Tyrell loot and breaking the Lannister army. (Victorious Battle)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

7:15 (+6) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rounds up the Lannister prisoners in the aftermath of the battle, which include Randyll and Dickon Tarly. (New Follower/Prisoner)

She does say that she isn't putting people in chains, does this count? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
They all bent the knee theyre followers not prisoners -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
They're prisoners of war for the few hours post-battle. She decides she doesn't want to keep them around as prisoners, but the fact that she can make that decision about their fates shows that they are her prisoners I think. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech likes this
How does that then work with Jon and Davos? They're being held against their will, but she also says clearly that they are not her prisoners ("not yet"). -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 15
It seems pretty easy to just ask the question in a pragmatic way - do the characters have any freedom of movement or action, or are they compelled to stay in the custody of another character? The Tarlys are clearly in Daenerys' custody, Jon/Davos were definitely floating close to it in the initial meeting (since they had their weapons and boat taken away too). -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech and amaltazyan like this

9:32 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rejects Tyrion's pleas for mercy or alternative punishments for the Lannister army, choosing to burn those who will not bend.

"I meant what I said. I'm not here to put them in chains. If that becomes an option many will take it. I gave them a choice. They made it." (Executive Decision)

18:06 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After getting that infection checked out at the Maester Clinic, Daenerys happily accepts Jorah Mormont back into service as her First Sword of the Friendzone.

Jorah: "I return to your service, my Queen, if you'll have me." (New Follower/Prisoner)

48:41 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals several books and records from the restricted area of the library and abandons the Citadel with Gilly and little Sam.

Gilly: "Are you sure you want to do this? You always wanted to be a Maester."
Samwell: "I'm tired of reading about the achievements of better men." (Act of Betrayal)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

23:27 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys rejects Tyrion's proposal that she name an heir.

Tyrion Lannister: "But there are other ways of choosing a successor. The Night's Watch has one method. The Ironborn, for all their many flaws, have another-"
Daenerys: "We will discuss the succession after I wear the crown." (Executive Decision)

45:10 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys ignores Tyrion's pleas, flying off with her three dragons to rescue Jon Snow and his expedition to capture a wight. "I'm not doing nothing again." (Executive Decision)

67:27 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

After she rescues Jon Snow's expedition from the Army of the Dead and pledges to fight the war, Jon swallows his pride and agrees to bend the knee.

"Alright, not Dany. How about 'My Queen'? I'd bend the knee, but..." (New Follower/Prisoner)

kiss already ffs -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 23 nyan likes this
? they're both getting a new negative special for warm barfy moments ?_? -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 Lem Lemoncake and hkeseyan like this
Haha, I'd rather they marry already. Give them negative special points for each time we're waiting for one of them to make the first move and it's not happening.
When Jon said "my queen", I first thought it was meant as a proposal, same as with the cavepainting scene - but they keep disappointing me ;( -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 23

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

69:17 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam puts the pieces of Bran's visions about Jon Snow's parentage together, remembering what Gilly told him at the Citadel about Rhaegar Targaryen's secret wedding.

"At the Citadel, I transcribed a High Septon's diary. He annulled Rhaegar's marriage to Elia. He wed Rhaegar and Lyanna in a secret ceremony." (Secret Discovery)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

Episode 2: Stormborn

0:00 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

on Melisandre's arrival to Dragonstone, after Varys protests that she had served Stannis Baratheon: "You chose an auspicious day to arrive at Dragonstone. We've just decided to pardon those who once served the wrong King." (Witty Insult)

submitted by kimberly.ramia (approved!)

I didn't think this line was particularly humorous. I will say that it was well said or creative but according to the rulebook only insults and threats get points for this. Since this quote was neither, it should only get points for being funny, which it is not. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24
I'll grant it, I didn't think it was humorous, but it is partway to an insult as a way of shutting down Varys' objections and reminding him of his sorta-hypocrisy. -nyan

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2017 Jul 25
This is true, i didnt take into account that Varys was in the room when she said this and even though she was speaking to Melisandre, the jab was directed a Varys. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25

49:42 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

to Theon, as she gets between Yara's legs: "Why are you standing all the way over there then? The foreign invasion is underway." (Funny Line)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

38:14 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys catches Tyrion in one of his signature made-up proverbs and calls him out:

Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?" (Funny Line)

submitted by jedjackoway (approved!)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

21:02 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Missandei: "Your Grace, there's still no word from the Unsullied."
Daenerys: "Soon, he (Grey Worm) will come back to you."
Missandei: "He better."
Daenerys: "What happened?"
Missandei: "Many things."
Daenerys: "... many things?" ? (Funny Line)

?? -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 8
Wouldn't Missandei get the points instead of Dany? Dany just repeats what Missandei said -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 alicehanners likes this
I would give missandei the points instead of dany, she is the funny one in this conversation -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 8 alicehanners likes this
Yeah it's a bit of a toss up, or perhaps we should double count them for both? For me, if the scene ends on Missandei's line it's not that funny of a dialogue. It's Daenerys' line and then the knowing glances they exchange that make the scene. -nyan

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2017 Aug 8 Lem Lemoncake, jake.kmiech, dopeghoti, jayson.the.pirate like this
I don't even consider this scene as funny as some of the funny lines that were rejected before, particularly last week. If it was up to me I would give no points. I can see however that some people thought it was funny, but definitely not funny to get double counted. There have been a lot wittier back-and-forth exchanges that did not get counted either for double nor even single points. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 8 alicehanners likes this

Episode 5: Eastwatch

47:05 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Gilly: "Guess how many windows are in the Great Sept of Baelor.
Sam: "None anymore." (Funny Line)

47:58 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam goes on a rant to Gilly about the order of Maesters: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

23:47 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

Tyrion Lannister: "I'm trying to serve you by planning for the long term."
Daenerys: "Perhaps if you'd planned for the short term, we wouldn't have lost Dorne and Highgarden." (Witty Insult)

30:45 (+3) Thoros of Myr:

Jorah Mormont: "Something I've always wanted to know ... How drunk were you when you charged through the breach on Pyke?"
Thoros: "If I'm being honest, I don't remember charging through the breach. Some of the lads told me about it the next morning. Sounded like a good scrap." (Funny Line)

31:11 (+3) Thoros of Myr:

Jorah Mormont: "The Ironborn thought you were some kind of god. The way you were waving that flaming sword. I thought you were the bravest man I ever saw."
Thoros: "Just the drunkest." (Funny Line)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

67:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam: "What happened to you beyond the Wall?"
Bran Stark: "I became the Three-Eyed Raven."
Sam: "Ohhh! ...I don't know what that means." (Funny Line)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

Episode 2: Stormborn

31:39 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell takes a hearty swig of the rum he gives to Jorah, before attempting the Greyscale surgery. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

48:30 (+5) Ellaria Sand:

Ellaria tries out the beverages stocked by the Greyjoy fleet. "How can you drink this piss? When we reach Sunspear I'll treat you to a Dornish Red, the best in the world." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

after this doesn't she also request for Theon to pour her more? doesn't that count as another wine point? -ssleppy

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2017 Jul 24
Just Kidding! I was linking that thought to the special for Cercei requesting a glass be poured. Disregard!! -ssleppy

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2017 Jul 24
Anyone getting a refill counts as a new glass (if they consume any after the top-off), AFAIK. -dopeghoti

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2017 Jul 24
Ellaria gets distracted after getting her refill and never even drinks it. Another L for Theon. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24

Episode 5: Eastwatch

58:03 (+5) Thoros of Myr:

Thoros gives a glance back to the Hound as he takes a swig from his flask. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

27:18 (+5) Thoros of Myr:

Thoros asks for a drink from his flask moments after being mauled by the wight bear. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

Episode 2: Stormborn

26:17 (+5) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm kisses Missandei after confessing that she is his one weakness. (Act of Intercourse)

28:00 (+10) Grey Worm :

Grey Worm gets with Missandei on the very last night before he sails off for Casterly Rock. (Act of Intercourse)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

61:12 (+10) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys invites Jon Snow into her room so that he can properly bend the knee. (Act of Intercourse)

One boob. http://i.imgur.com/Q4NnVAU.jpg -nyan

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2017 Aug 29
Shouldn't we teeeeechnically get incest points? maybe? -williamfmarr

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2017 Aug 29
Only Cersei and Jaime get those for their special ability :o -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 29 jedjackoway likes this
I think it may be fun to make that a general scoring booster for the sex category. And just +1 (+5) rather than the doubling. If we can think of one more additional couple that might incest, I'll add it for S8 and the rewatches. -nyan

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2017 Sep 1 jake.kmiech likes this
And so it begins.

Quick question. The new rule which says direct contact with certain body parts including the breasts and buttoz will receive points for intercourse.

Would this include a simple pat on the butt? -hindsight44

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2019 Feb 3
Oh man it's been a year and a half, I can't wait to get back into these debate. ?

By the letter of the ruling, a pat on the butt counts. But I do agree it's a bit PG. I'd be inclined to add in an "... except butts" exception to that line. -nyan

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2019 Feb 27

Deaths

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

39:00 (+5) Thoros of Myr:

Thoros is found dead in the morning, having succumbed to his injuries and lack of snuggles in the frost as the the group is marooned on the rock isle in the middle of the frozen lake. (Death)

54:12 (+5) Daenerys Targaryen:

Viserion slumps into the icy depths of the lake after having been fatally struck by an ice javelin from the Night King. (Death)

69:10 (+2) Daenerys Targaryen:

Viseron's body is dragged back out from under the ice lake by a chain gang of wights. (Dead Body Appearance)

Special

Episode 1: Dragonstone

45:39 (+3) Thoros of Myr:

Thoros conjures a magic prophecy fire to share a vision of the White Walker invasion with Sandor Clegane. (Special)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

10 more comments - see full thread

I think Thoros deserves some wine points for his rum drinking. Don't hate because he likes to party. -craigdietz20

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2017 Jul 21 hawaiikman, WampaLord, pacelli929, shannonferretti like this
Yeah... and it would help my low score this episode ;)
-hawaiikman

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2017 Jul 21
@craigdietz20 I couldn't find any instances of Thoros drinking, either on horse while approaching the farm or inside the farmhouse by the fire. He certainly clutches his flask the whole time, but never brings it up to this lips (as far as I can tell). -nyan

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2017 Jul 21 sanford likes this

49:18 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam does some late night studying with his pirated JSTOR copies of the restricted Maester books. (Special)

50:32 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam begins writing a raven letter to Jon to inform him of the cache of dragonglass buried beneath Dragonstone. (Special)

Episode 2: Stormborn

20:18 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

to Tyrion: "My greatest regret is that Oberyn died fighting for you." (Special)

29:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell mentions that he has potentially found a treatment option for Jorah Mormont's greyscale in a book. "I found the procedure in a study of rare diseases by Archmaester Pylos". (Special)

31:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell opens up Archmaester Pylos' tome on Rare Diseases, which contains the instructions for the Greyscale treatment he is to perform on Jorah. (Special)

35:09 (+12) Hot Pie:

Arya meets Hot Pie at the Crossroads Inn, where he has baked up 4 on-screen pies: the Jorah special being eaten by two unnamed characters, Arya's pie, and two more left on the serving tray. (Special)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

50:08 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Archmaester Ebrose: "It's a meticulous, difficult procedure. Many Maesters whose chains are heavy with healing links have attempted it and failed. Yet you succeeded. How?"
Sam: "I read the books and followed the instructions." (Special)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

10:24 (+3) Daenerys Targaryen:

"Lord Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, I, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of My Name, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, sentence you to die. Dracarys." (Special)

46:49 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam reads from a book as he transcribes it onto a fresh set of paper, before handing it over to Baby Sam. (Special)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

25:49 (+3) Thoros of Myr:

Thoros lights his sword on fire as the wight bear descends on the party. (Special)

The Feels

Episode 5: Eastwatch

15:08 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

45:47 (+0) Daenerys Targaryen:

Daenerys says her goodbyes to Jorah once again, as she takes his hands into hers.

Daenerys: "We should be better at saying farewell by now."
Jorah: "Your Grace, I-" (stunned speechless by actual physical contact) (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

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