The White Wankers

3-4, 18.5 roto pts (#3)
Z-Score: -0.671 (percentile: 25.1%)
Weeks at #1: 0
Categories won:
Best Week: Episode 5: Eastwatch (+0.5 roto points)
Team MVP: Jon Snow (picked #2, 165 points, 39.29% of team total)
Longest winstreak: W-2

Roster Stats

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#2	165	89	36	15	0	10	0	15
Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	#26	85	70	6	0	0	0	0	9
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#15	55	5	18	9	5	0	0	18
White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	#7	41	26	15	0	0	0	0	0
Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	#18	29	10	0	9	5	0	5	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#10	17	0	12	0	0	0	5	0
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys now pulls the political strings for Daenerys Targaryen, arranging alliances with the Westerosi Houses Tyrell and Martell. He controls a vast network of spies.	#23	14	0	3	6	5	0	0	0
Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	#31	11	0	0	3	5	0	0	3
Meera Reed The eldest child of Howland Reed, bannerman to the Starks. She assists Bran in his journeys north of the Wall and is the only other surviving member of his party.	#34	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	3
Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although he is easily manipualted by Lord Petyr Baelish, who serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	#39	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		420	200	90	42	20	10	10	48

Roster

charId	Character	Special
39	Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	* +1 each time he unintentionally drops Longclaw * +1 point each time he is called a bastard in his presence * Ghost's actions contribute to his points.
130	White Walker (Night King) The leader of the White Walkers.	* Actions of dragons while dragonriding * Wights or White Walker versions of named chars are counted as followers (unless shown to be re-animated by someone else) * Scenes of Winter arriving anywhere south of the Riverlands (inclusive) * works of White Walker art
79	Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	+1 point in the intercourse category for sex events that occur in his brothels 2x multiplier for betrayal events +1 for every kiss he gives to Sansa
40	Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	+1 point for reading books, mentioning he "read that in a book", or writing raven letters.
59	Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell) The matriarch of House Tyrell, Olenna seeks only revenge against the Lannisters after Cersei wiped out nearly all of House Tyrell in the wildfire explosion at the Sept of Baelor. She is known as the "Queen of Thorns" for her sarcasm and wit.	+1 point every time she interlocks arms with someone while walking.
82	Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys now pulls the political strings for Daenerys Targaryen, arranging alliances with the Westerosi Houses Tyrell and Martell. He controls a vast network of spies.	* +1 politics point when he meets another character in secret * +1 point when someone references his being a eunuch to him * +1 point when he passes along information from his "little birds"
101	Beric Dondarrion Lord of Blackhaven, bannermen to House Baratheon. He leads the Brotherhood Without Banners, an outlaw fighting group in the Riverlands.	Can receive points multiple times in the Death category +1 when shown igniting the flaming sword
91	Ellaria Sand The former paramour of Prince Oberyn. She is also the mother of several of his bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes, and plots revenge against the Lannisters for Oberyn's death. After assassinating Prince Doran and overtaking Dorne, she joins forces with Daenerys Targaryen as she sails west to retake the Iron Throne.	+1 for invoking the name of Oberyn Martell
13	Meera Reed The eldest child of Howland Reed, bannerman to the Starks. She assists Bran in his journeys north of the Wall and is the only other surviving member of his party.	+1 every time she transports Bran
84	Robin Arryn The young, sickly son of the late Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. He is Lord of the Vale, although he is easily manipualted by Lord Petyr Baelish, who serves as Lord Protector until he comes of age.	Gains points in the the Wine category for breastfeeding. +1 point when he mentions making something "fly".

Kills

Episode 2: Stormborn

33:54 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell plies off the infected Greyscale tissue from Jorah's chest, with all the gentleness of a spoon digging through hot pie. (Major Injury of Named Character)

28 more comments - see full thread

You referenced Tyrion's scar which is tiny compared to that of a burn victim. So even if we made the criteria: Tyrion's scar or larger, I think we would still see quite a few injuries that might have otherwise been considered minor now being considered major.

Also real life burn victims don't have access to the medical ointments that Samwell is applying to Jorah, for all we know Jorah could come out of this looking like nothing happened. And I can assure you if that's the case I will definitely be arguing for these points to be removed retroactively. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
Is anyone else having trouble with trades mine won't allow accept ion, rejection, or counter
-talindsey

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2017 Jul 28
@ssantise admittedly they've minimized Tyrion's scar in subsequent seasons. If you recall back to S2 they made a big thing about having bandaged up his entire face and was worried that Shae wouldn't love him anymore. I do think that if Tyrion recovers from the battle, has a cosmetic scar but they don't really make a big thing about it, it wouldn't be a major injury. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

43:40 (+1) Jon Snow:

Jon chokes a creeping Littlefinger against a wall in the Crypts of Winterfell. "Talk to my sister, and I'll kill you myself." (Minor Injury of Named Character)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

0:00 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

16 more comments - see full thread

Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 2
If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.

While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).

If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056

That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2 kevinpetsky likes this
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 4

Episode 5: Eastwatch

12:57 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime confirms the death of Olenna Tyrell from the poisoned wine she takes after the Tyrell defeat at Highgarden. "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died." (Kill of Named Character (finished off from previously fatal injury))

9 more comments - see full thread

thanks! -Laxis

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2017 Aug 25
did you find anything? it would make a few points differences for our roto standings (my team probably won't come close to victory anyway, but other teams would lose points in relation too) -Laxis

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2017 Aug 28
Hey @Laxis, really sorry but don't think I'll be able to get to it this week - still on a hectic travel schedule and barely have enough hours of internet access to do the scoring. It's on my list, but may come the week after. Sorry =[ -nyan

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2017 Aug 29

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

26:02 (+5) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric smacks his flaming sword onto the wight bear, setting it on fire. (Major Injury of Named Character)

Ah, named character "The Wight Bear" -derekjjjj

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2017 Aug 23 theripleymanor likes this
His name was Jeremy and he was a good bear. -theripleymanor

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, nyan, hkeseyan, emilien.raggi, 2 others like this
To clarify, this is following along from the "boss fight" criteria that upgrades the status of these characters even if they have no name.

But I like Jeremy, I may add him into the draftables for future rewatch seasons. -nyan

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, emilien.raggi, Lem Lemoncake like this

27:36 (+1) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric applies his flaming sword to cauterize the chest wounds suffered by Thoros at the paws of the wight bear. (Minor Injury of Named Character)

32:56 (+2) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric slices through a wight during the ambush on the White Walker scouting party. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

33:06 (+10) Jon Snow:

After dodging a blow, Jon slices through the White Walker leading the scouting party with Longclaw, shattering it to pieces. (Kill of Named Character)

33:07 (+14) Jon Snow:

7 of the wights in the scouting party disintegrate after Jon kills the White Walker leading them.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

15 more comments - see full thread

It feels incredibly unfair to not count the deaths as kills. Those 7 Wights died as a result of a combat situation, the kills need to be attributed. The surrender analogy does not work, in a normal situation the surrendering soldiers would be taken captive because they are alive and still functioning. In this scenario the wights couldn't be captured because they were destroyed due to Jon's actions, the wight they DID capture can more accurately be seen as a surrender. If anything, this resembles an execution of prisoners, where Jon passed the judgement and swung the sword.

Also I agree that it is unfair to remove the points after a week, where no new arguments were brought up to strengthen the case for removal. -brandonthebigB

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2017 Aug 28 hindsight44 likes this
When soldiers surrender you have gained an asset or at the very least levrage. There is a specific advantage to gaining surrendered soldiers that is not at play here. They were once functional wights that would kill any living thing and now theyre nothing. The rules state that kills are counted regardless of reason. Jon Snows actions directly led those 7 wights dying........again -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 28
Yeah the delay in scoring update is my bad, I've ended up on another spotty-internet week during travel for this one and wasn't able to do these earlier. The summer run for S7 has really caused some conflicts with travel, I'll have to figure out the S8 schedule much better.

I think you guys are right from a scorekeeping purity standpoint. The wights went from soldiers to being dead because of this action, to call it a surrender can work as a stretch but yes, it is a stretch we'd be making to find a way to discount the points. I started thinking about parallel examples, with a very basic kill switch action that causes large numbers of deaths. You might say Bronn igniting the Blackwater Bay wildfire, or a hypothetical Qyburn's little bird igniting the wildfire underneath the Sept of Baelor, and I think most players would readily accept those as valid scores.

Giving it some further thought, I did have that same first impression of "cheapness" as most of the others who initially commented. I think that comes from having such a directly comparable set of kills in the exact same scene - the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, et. al. are busy hacking away at the wights for their measly 1-2 kills each, and then Jon swoops in with an easy 7-kill swing. But it can be fine that some kills are cheaper than others, and while a jackpot scenario may exist in the future with whoever takes down the Night King, it's a much more equitable free-for-all for any character to achieve, unlike say Daenerys' dragon roastings.

Perhaps with better per-league tools, we can again have multiple rulesets for S8 that could include or exclude the wight-follower kills.

Anyhow for this one, I'll go back to the original decision which is to count the 7 as kills. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, emilien.raggi like this

47:17 (+34) Jon Snow:

Jon cuts down 17 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group, up until Daenerys and her dragons arrive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

47:29 (+62) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric cuts down 31 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

52:39 (+20) Jon Snow:

Jon realizes he is currently only 4th place on the Kills leaderboard, and climbs back down off of Drogon to score 10 more wight kills in garbage time, as all the others wisely get onboard. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

53:35 (+10) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King launches a perfect javelin toss, striking Viserion right in the neck and bringing him crashing straight down into the icy lake. (Kill of Named Character)

11 more comments - see full thread

I think everyone is missing the point here about the dragon kill. This is fantasy Game of Thrones, we are never going to accurately score each character for how much impact they truly have on the show. 1) because this is fantasy and we have to have rigid rules to score points for events instead of retroactively assigning point values to things and 2) because impact is subjective and we will never fully agree on who has more impact

The thing everyone who is complaining about points that characters deserve for certain events is sorely missing is that in fantasy we need to settle on points awarded for certain events and then the players play the game around that. Everyone knew ahead of time that killing a dragon would be 10 points. Everyone knew that drinking wine is 5 points and full frontal nudity is 20. Everyone knew that killing 5 random characters is the same as killing 1 named character no matter how tough or important they are. Playing fantasy Game of Thrones is a skill in and of itself, and whoever pays the most attention to those specific rules should be rewarded. If you drafted the Night King because you thought he is ultimately more powerful than someone like Jaime who has one hand, you made a terrible mistake by overlooking the fact that Jaime can drink, have sex, say good lines, rack up specials, have more screen time, while the Night King rarely does killing with his own hands, doesn't talk, have sex, or drink.

It is Nathan's job as the runner of this site to ensure that 1) the game is competitive and fair within its intended scope and 2) points are being counted for what they were implied to be counted for when people drafted their characters. You can say killing a dragon is more of a power than Sam reading 4 books but the fact remains that drafting the Night King with the hopes that a dragon kill would win your season was a bad fantasy move. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 24 jake.kmiech, emilien.raggi, emilyjmahar, WampaLord, 2 others like this
Where our discussions about points should happen is in events where there is ambiguity or a dispute in whether or not something satisfies a condition for awarding points on an event. No one is denying a dragon was killed. You could've looked back and did your research and seen that killing giants and white walkers were the same number of points. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 24 jedjackoway, jake.kmiech, emilien.raggi like this
What hkeseyan said <3 and I'd like to add that exactely this, for me personally at least, is what brings the fun into this: the seeming arbitrariness. That Doran Martell can have his one episode in which he does a few steps on his own to prove a point then die and score hugely for that single episode but never before or after. This is also one of the reasons why I now prefer H2H to Roto. I have Dany in my team and obviously have the by far highest overall scoring. Still, I don't lead my H2H league, because I lost the pre-dragonsofmassdestruction-episodes :> -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 25

54:34 (+8) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow cuts down four wights after witnessing Viseron's death, before realizing that trying to cut his way to the Night King for a 1v1 was a terrible idea and that he should really get back to the dragon evac. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

23:04 (+2) Jon Snow:

At the audience in King's Landing, Jon demonstrates the two ways of defeating the Army of the Dead, burning the wight's severed hand, and then finishing off the dismembered wight with a dragonglass dagger. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Dang, I thought Qyburn was going to come away with a new specimen for his experiments here. Would've been cool to see a franken-wight in S8. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 Lem Lemoncake and emilydcampa like this
I noticed the "Captured Wight" was added as a draftable character. Would that not make him more significant / a named character? -kimbo

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jedjackoway, jake.kmiech like this
I think we'll keep the criteria for "boss fight", which is the character being featured in a battle scene being a badass and/or owning the other extras. Not every draftable character will qualify to be a named/boss fight kill, we had this earlier with a few speculative draftable characters that ended up having extremely minor roles. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29

78:00 (+16) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King rides in on the newly risen wight-dragon Viserion, attacking the Wall at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea with blue flame, and sending 8 of its defenders to their death amidst the collapsing ice wall. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

Episode 1: Dragonstone

7:26 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King marches across the tundra, having newly added several wight Giants to his army. (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

12:31 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon refuses to strip the Umbers and Karstarks of their castles for Smalljon and Harald's treasonous siding with Ramsay Bolton, despite the objections from Sansa and the other Northern lords.

"...I will not punish a son for his father's sins, and I will not take a family home away from a family it has belonged to for centuries.
That is my decision, and my decision is final." (Executive Decision)

13:14 (+6) Jon Snow:

Jon receives pledges of loyalty from Ned Umber and Alys Karstark, the new heads of their respective houses after Smalljon Umber and Harald Karstark died in the Battle of Winterfell. (New Follower/Prisoner)

27:02 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell has officially made it to grad-school life, having been admitted as a student of the Citadel. His first task is latrine duty. (New Title)

45:38 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

While looking into Thoros' flames, Sandor Clegane discovers the location of the planned White Walker invasion - Eastwatch-by-the-Sea - a secret which Beric seems to already be aware of.
---
Sandor Clegane: "Ice. A wall of ice. The Wall. ... It's where the Wall meets the sea. There's a castle there. There's a mountain. Looks like an arrowhead. The dead are marching past. Thousands of them."
Beric: "Do you believe me now, Clegane?" (Secret Discovery)

50:13 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

As Samwell flips the pages of the restricted Maester books, he discovers that Dragonstone sits on a literal mountain of dragonglass, a weapon crucial to defeating the White Walkers. (Secret Discovery)

Episode 2: Stormborn

5:16 (+3) Varys:

Varys convinces Daenerys that she doesn't need to demand his blind allegiance, as long as she is a just ruler.

Daenerys: "Proven himself loyal? Quite the opposite. If he dislikes one monarch, he conspires to crown the next one. What kind of servant is this?"

Varys: "The kind the realm needs. Incompetence should not be rewarded with blind loyalty. As long as I have my eyes, I'll use them. I wasn't born into a great house. I came from nothing. I was so sold as a slave, and carved up as an offering. When I was a child I lived in gutters, alleys, abandoned houses. You want to know where my true loyalties lie? Not with any king or queen, but with the people. The people, who suffer under despots and prosper under just rule, the people whose hearts you aim to win." (Convincing Argument)

30:55 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell sneaks into Jorah's room to try an experimental Greyscale treatment on him, despite Archmaester Ebrose's forbidding him to do so. (Executive Decision)

12 more comments - see full thread

a key component of an executive decision is that the decision is made to someone who you have power over. it cant be 'Executive' without that power dynamic. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24 nyan likes this
'Naughty' points? -xdwxrd

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise I would not necessarily hold that followers and decisions are intertwined. Samwell is not directly a follower of the Archmaester, however the Archmaester is still making Citadel-wide rules for all Maesters (and Maesters-in-training), which Samwell must obey as part of the order. Just like a student is not necesarily a follower of a principal, but the principal can still make school-wide decisions that affect all the students. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

38:07 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell's letter is the final straw that convinces Jon Snow to ally with Daenerys Targaryen.

"This message was sent to me by Samwell Tarly. He was my brother at the Night's Watch. A man I trust as much as anyone in this world. He's discovered proof that Dragonstone sits on a mountain of dragonglass." (Convincing Argument)

14 more comments - see full thread

I don't like the idea of tweaking the rulebook constantly so that everyone can get as many points of possible. I think its important to have a concrete set of rules that we can all rely on. I agree that there must be room for changes as the show evolves but I feel there should be a bit more formality around making substantial changes to the rulebook. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
@hindsight44 one definition of the word argument is a two-way debate that involves dialogue. but a "convincing argument" is just a one-way statement. if people exchange convincing arguments, that entire dialogue can be considered an argument. if an attorney presents an argument at a case, they are the only ones speaking, until the other side present their argument(s). if someone writes a critical essay (or like in this case, a letter), they are making a single argument to persuade the reader of something. these are all one-way arguments -hkeseyan

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise and @hkeseyan, basically you are both on the sides that I'm trying to balance when refining the scorekeeping. As @ssantise says, for consistency and fairness, the rules shouldn't change drastically. And definitely not for reasons like "we want there to be as many scores as possible". But as @hkeseyan and I'm sure lots of people realized, there are lots of areas to improve on the scoring rules, and that's especially true since the original rules were just what I could think of on my own when I started the game - each year lots of players are bringing in new ideas and are continually making the game better, and we still haven't quite reached the point where everything if fully stabilized.

For this convincing argument case, I think @hkeseyan gets at a better spirit of the rules for scoring, which isn't strictly about the decision by a character being reversed, but simply a character effectively convincing another to go with their plan of action (but with some real effort needed to convince, not simply "Hey man you wanna kill some Lannisters? Sure let's do it.").

In hindsight it was a mistake on my part to word it concretely around a decision being already made - I had been thinking too narrowly about examples like Robert and his Small Council, and it doesn't cover things like a brooding, indecisive Jon even though that was the intention.

So given that, I'll change that rulebook line to the following:

A character can be "convinced" only after they had initially decided in the opposite decision, or shown some resistance or indecision to the arguments.

Definitely it's not taken lightly and I understand each of these changes affects the scoring expectations negatively. For the most part I hope all of these tweaks are getting closer in line with the spirit of what deserves scoring. And I believe, is not inconsistent with what we've scored before (if anyone is finding examples of rejected scores because a character was simply indecisive vs. fully decided in the opposite direction, let me know. But otherwise I think this is the first time it's come up.) -nyan

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2017 Jul 31 ssantise likes this

39:03 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow decides that he must go to Dragonstone to meet with Daenerys, despite objections from Sansa and nearly all the Northern lords. "Daenerys is a Queen. Only a King could convince her to help us. It has to be me." (Executive Decision)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

23:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon reveals the ancient petroglyphs carved into the obsidian cave at Dragonstone, showing the Children of the Forest and the First Men fighting together against the White Walkers.

"There is something else I want to show you, Your Grace. The children of the forest made these. ... A very long time ago. They were right here, standing where we're standing. Before there were Targaryens or Starks or Lannisters. ... They were here together, the children and the First Men.
... They fought together against their common enemy. Despite their differences, despite their suspicions. Together. We need to do the same if we're going to survive. Because the enemy is real. It's always been real." (Secret Discovery)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

0:00 (+3) Jon Snow:

Gendry enthusiastically pledges to follow Jon Snow beyond the Wall to take on the White Walkers. (New Follower/Prisoner)

19:39 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King breaks Bran's warg connection to his ravens, dispersing the scouting flock sent north of the Wall. (Victorious Battle)

Fairly minor "engagement" if we can even call it that? -nyan

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2017 Aug 15 jake.kmiech, jedjackoway, playabills like this
The rules say that these points are for within the scope of a battle. I think this will set a precedent where minor actions are considered battle wins. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15 hkeseyan, jake.kmiech, craigdietz20 like this
I wouldn't extend it that far (for minor actions in battles). Rather, this was the sum of the engagement (the ravens on a scouting mission, which was repelled). If this was one shot as a part of a larger battle, I don't think it counts as a battle victory at all. -nyan

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2017 Aug 15
I had thought this would be under discovery of a secret in that he now knows that Bran was attempting to scout out his army -cfitzgerald

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2017 Aug 15 hindsight44, jake.kmiech, talindsey like this
I agree how is this a win for the night king. To me bran came out with the information so regardless it was a successful scouting mission . -talindsey

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2017 Aug 15
Nothing really happened. :| -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 16 jedjackoway, playabills, craigdietz20 like this

26:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Over Davos' and Daenerys' protests, Jon decides that he'll personally lead the expedition north of the Wall to capture a wight.

Davos Seaworth: "You can't lead a raid beyond the Wall. You're not in the Night's Watch anymore, you're King in the North."
Jon: "I'm the only one here who's fought them. I'm the only one here who knows them."
Daenerys: "I haven't given you permission to leave."
Jon: "With respect, Your Grace, I don't need your permission. I am a King." (Executive Decision)

48:41 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell steals several books and records from the restricted area of the library and abandons the Citadel with Gilly and little Sam.

Gilly: "Are you sure you want to do this? You always wanted to be a Maester."
Samwell: "I'm tired of reading about the achievements of better men." (Act of Betrayal)

51:24 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger acquires the only copy of a raven letter written by Sansa while she was in King's Landing, when she was compelled by Cersei to ask Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Secret Discovery)

Ehhh. :| Secret? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 16
He already knew about this, how else would he ask for that specific letter? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 16
It does fall a little bit between Secret and acquiring a valuable item, like a weapon. He knows of the existence of the letter, but now he wields that information on concrete form which he can use to blackmail Sansa, influence the Northern lords, or sow the seeds of doubt to Arya. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
it's not a secret but it is a Secret Discovery... the letter was clearly not known to exist among others in Winterfell. -pacelli929

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2017 Aug 17 nyan likes this
Yeah, it's not a secret discovery for 'this' character though. He's not discovering anything, why is he getting points for it. -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 17
I could change it to "loot" which was a new subcategory added in another discussion about Cersei/Tycho acquiring the Tyrell gold and securing a new Iron Bank loan. I think people could agree it is like a New Weapon, but an informational one rather than a physical one? In any case the scores are the same. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 jedjackoway likes this

51:24 (+6) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger has been using Maester Wolkan to dig through the Winterfell archives, portraying it as a command by Sansa Stark.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Act of Betrayal)

53:54 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger snoops from the shadows, having observed Arya Stark tracking him and breaking into his room. (Secret Discovery)

57:14 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon silences the squabbling in the Eastwatch cells and recruits the prisoners into his expedition.

Jon: "He's right. We're all on the same side."
Gendry: "How can we be?"
Jon: "We're all breathing." (Convincing Argument)

Definitely deserves some points, but maybe this should be under convincing argument -kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 16 hkeseyan and nyan like this
If he weren't the one in charge making the decision, and that line swayed the decision-maker, it'd be a convincing argument. IMO, this is the right category for this. Whether his decision was convincing or not we shall see. -dopeghoti

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2017 Aug 17
More of a semantics issue, but I switched this from Executive to Convince. I took this more of a line to Gendry who doesn't work with the Brotherhood - it's not a command that Gendry fall in line but attempting to convince Gendry that his beef doesn't matter as the White Walkers are the true enemy. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

33:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow and his crew successfully ambush the White Walker scouting party, killing the leader and capturing the live wight they were looking for. (Victorious Battle)

39:38 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric says a brief prayer for Thoros after they discover him perished in the night. "Lord of Light, show us the way. Come to us in our darkness and lead your servant into the light ... Lord of Light, come to us in our darkness. For the night is dark and full of terrors." (House Words)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Same argument as for jon, did you already scored this for melissandre or another priestess (or even beric before? I don't recall if he already said that in previous seasons) ? -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 23
This was added as House Words for "religious leaders", from the rulebook:

> Religious leaders (not basic worshippers) also have "dual citizenship", gaining points for their common religious phrases.

I think it could be argued Beric is not technically a priest, however he's the most ardent Lord of Light fanatic we have going now. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 emilien.raggi and jedjackoway like this
Okay I agree then, it makes sense :) -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 24

55:20 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

The Night King's Army of the Dead overwhelm Jon Snow's party, forcing them to evacuate by dragon and taking down one of Daenerys Targaryen's dragons, Viserion, in the process. (Victorious Battle)

70:13 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

After having Viseron's body salvaged from the icy lake, the Night King reanimates the dragon as a wight. (New Follower/Prisoner)

Yeaah Dany will lose Viserion and the Night King will gain a Special for all of wight-Viserion's actions. -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 bookworm13457, jedjackoway, ehbud25, vjdev2015, 3 others like this
Does this include the dead body reappearing bonus? -jake.kmiech

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2017 Aug 23
Hmmmm good question. My feeling is that wight-Viserion will not count as a "dead body appearance", it potentially disrupts that category too much? -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 jake.kmiech and emilien.raggi like this
In the appearance at the end of the episode, Viserion was dead so it could be an appearance.... now it is awake/undead, so from now on no dead body appearances? Just like Jon, Beric, Mountain, Benjen -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 23 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, vjdev2015, nyan, 2 others like this
Makes sense to me. The dead points go to Dany, then, as it wasn't under the Night King's spell yet. If it dies again, the points should go to the Night King, though -jake.kmiech

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2017 Aug 23 vjdev2015, emilien.raggi, nyan, kimbo like this
Yeah, I agree with hkeseyan and jake.kmiech -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 23

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

26:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

In what is universally regarded as a terrible idea by all sides, Jon single-handedly dissolves the Lannister-Targaryen truce in the name of honor and hopefully getting into Daenerys' pants later.

Cersei: "In return, the King in the North will extend this truce. He will remain in the North where he belongs. He will not take up arms against the Lannisters. He will not choose sides. ... I know Ned Stark's son will be true to his word."
Jon Snow: "I am true to my word. Or I try to be. That is why I cannot give you what you ask. I cannot serve two queens. And I have already pledged myself to Queen Daenerys of House Targaryen." (Executive Decision)

45:47 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon convinces Daenerys to sail with him to the North, rather than flying on her own.

"It's your decision, Your Grace. But if we're going to be allies in this war, it's important for the Northerners to see us as allies. If we sail to White Harbor together, I think it sends a better message." (Convincing Argument)

69:17 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam puts the pieces of Bran's visions about Jon Snow's parentage together, remembering what Gilly told him at the Citadel about Rhaegar Targaryen's secret wedding.

"At the Citadel, I transcribed a High Septon's diary. He annulled Rhaegar's marriage to Elia. He wed Rhaegar and Lyanna in a secret ceremony." (Secret Discovery)

78:57 (+3) White Walker (Night King):

Riding in on the newly risen wight-dragon Viserion, the Night King blasts the Wall at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea with blue flame, destroying the castle and sending the Wall crashing down. (Victorious Battle)

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

Episode 1: Dragonstone

14:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Sansa Stark: "They respect you, they really do, but you have to- Why are you laughing?"
Jon Snow: "What did father used to say? Everything before the word 'but' is horse shit." (Witty Insult)

submitted by andrei.sias (approved!)

Episode 2: Stormborn

49:42 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

to Theon, as she gets between Yara's legs: "Why are you standing all the way over there then? The foreign invasion is underway." (Funny Line)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too." (Witty Insult)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

0:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?" (Funny Line)

submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

58:00 (+3) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime Lannister: "There are always lessons in failures."
Olenna Tyrell: "Yes. You must be very wise by now." (Witty Insult)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

16:04 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon and Daenerys discuss her dragons.

Daenerys: "They're beautiful, aren't they?"
Jon: "It wasn't the word I was thinking of, but... but, yes, they are. Gorgeous beasts." (Funny Line)

23:05 (+3) Varys:

Tyrion: "She gave Tarly a choice, a man who had taken up arms against her. What else could she do?"
Varys: "Not burn him alive alongside his son?" (Funny Line)

24:16 (+3) Varys:

Tyrion: "Who's that (raven letter) for?"
Varys: "Jon Snow."
Tyrion: "Did you read it?"
Varys: "It's a sealed scroll for the King in the North."
...
Tyrion: "What's it say?"
Varys: "Nothing good." (Funny Line)

7 more comments - see full thread

Tyrion only imo. Tyrion calls out Varys after Varys already tried to be deceptive, he does all the legwork here -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 16
id say both, its entirely possible for a joke to need two people to make it work. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 17
Added in a score for Tyrion's response here: http://fantasora.com/event/3608

I'll say Varys' follow-up is good enough to count, even if Tyrion's was the climax of the punchline. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

47:05 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Gilly: "Guess how many windows are in the Great Sept of Baelor.
Sam: "None anymore." (Funny Line)

47:58 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam goes on a rant to Gilly about the order of Maesters: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!" (Witty Insult)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

4:16 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tormund Giantsbane: "I can breathe again. Down south the air smells like pigshit."
Jon Snow: "You've never been down south."
Tormund: "I've been to Winterfell."
Jon: "That's the North." (Funny Line)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

67:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam: "What happened to you beyond the Wall?"
Bran Stark: "I became the Three-Eyed Raven."
Sam: "Ohhh! ...I don't know what that means." (Funny Line)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

Episode 2: Stormborn

31:39 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell takes a hearty swig of the rum he gives to Jorah, before attempting the Greyscale surgery. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

48:30 (+5) Ellaria Sand:

Ellaria tries out the beverages stocked by the Greyjoy fleet. "How can you drink this piss? When we reach Sunspear I'll treat you to a Dornish Red, the best in the world." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

after this doesn't she also request for Theon to pour her more? doesn't that count as another wine point? -ssleppy

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2017 Jul 24
Just Kidding! I was linking that thought to the special for Cercei requesting a glass be poured. Disregard!! -ssleppy

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2017 Jul 24
Anyone getting a refill counts as a new glass (if they consume any after the top-off), AFAIK. -dopeghoti

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2017 Jul 24
Ellaria gets distracted after getting her refill and never even drinks it. Another L for Theon. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

61:05 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Olenna drinks the glass of poisoned wine provided by Jaime, after the Tyrells are defeated at Highgarden.

Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

23:32 (+5) Varys:

Varys takes Tyrion wine cup and downs it while recollecting his days as the Mad Kind Aerys' adviser.

"I found the traitors, but I wasn't the one burning them alive. I was only a purveyor of information. It's what I told myself when I watched them beg for mercy - I'm not the one doing it. When the pitch of their screams rose higher - I'm not the one doing it. When their hair caught fire and the smell of their burning flesh filled the throne room - I'm not the one doing it." (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

61:12 (+10) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow's ignites his latent Targaryen instincts to incest with his aunt Daenerys aboard her ship as they sail for White Harbor. (Act of Intercourse)

Deaths

Episode 5: Eastwatch

12:57 (+5) Olenna Redwyne (Grandma Tyrell):

Jaime confirms the death of Olenna Tyrell from the poisoned wine she takes after the Tyrell defeat at Highgarden. "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died." (Death)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

60:16 (+5) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger has his throat slit by Arya Stark, after his betrayals and treason are exposed by Sansa Stark in the court of Winterfell to the Northern and Vale lords.

Sansa: "Thank you for all your many lessons, Lord Baelish. I will never forget them." (Death)

Is anyone else upset with how LF went out? Until this season LF had the most unpredictable plans and was always smart enough to have someone else do the dirty work for him. This season his scheme was in your face and obvious. He always played 4 dimensional chess and this season it was 1 dimensional. Also say what you want about him but LF wouldnt beg for his life. He was willing to fight and die against Brandon Stark and also advised to risk everything because life is fleeting. I never really cared about how the show differs from the book as long as the characters stay the same. I really feel like this was a misrepresentation of LF. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 29 jake.kmiech, nyan, hkeseyan like this
I feel like they dragged his death on for so long - he was basically kept as a laying duck all season while we knew his demise was coming. He did practically nothing with the extra time he was given to live (all the failed whispering in Sansa's ear was so bad, I'd rather have LF killed off earlier than see him like that). Similar situation with Varys except they haven't built an entire plotline in a major location around his demise -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 29 hindsight44, jake.kmiech, nyan like this
Definitely, Littlefinger was always the most dangerous man in Westeros, I imagined his demise would see him get all the way to the pinnacle of power, and only then to get backstabbed by Sansa.

I'd have a hard time writing a good S7 storyline for Littlefinger though. I think they put themselves into a corner by showing Sansa was through with him and saw everything. In my fantasy storyline, Sansa is the only Stark who sees a reedeming quality in Baelish, and goes along with his schemes against the better advice of all her family and followers. And then at the pinnacle do we find out that Sansa was the one playing an even longer game, and perhaps she can actually be as selfishly power-thirsty as Arya accuses her. It'd be awesome if we had one Stark who was questionably a villain, and not all goody-goodies. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 jake.kmiech and hindsight44 like this
Isn't Arya the villain Stark? I know that the series tries to make her somewhat sympathetic every now and then, that she is still the little Arya girl, but she actually went full blown egomaniac, sociopath and serial killer since she left King's Landing - which is even comprehensible considering her experiences and possible traumas. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 30

Special

Episode 1: Dragonstone

8:57 (+3) Meera Reed:

Meera gives a slight push to Bran's sledge for appearances sake, as two members of the Night's Watch tow Bran through the gates at Castle Black. (Special)

49:18 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam does some late night studying with his pirated JSTOR copies of the restricted Maester books. (Special)

50:32 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam begins writing a raven letter to Jon to inform him of the cache of dragonglass buried beneath Dragonstone. (Special)

Episode 2: Stormborn

10:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Sansa reading Tyrion's letter to Jon Snow: "All dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes." (Special)

Sure Tyrion alludes to Jon Snow being a bastard by calling himself a bastard, but he doesn't outright call Jon Snow a bastard. Does Jon get points every time he's called by his last name "Snow" which alludes to the fact that hes a bastard? -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24
He gets points for the word bastard only. The words are on paper but Sansa says them out loud anyway. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24
fair enough -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24

20:18 (+3) Ellaria Sand:

to Tyrion: "My greatest regret is that Oberyn died fighting for you." (Special)

29:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell mentions that he has potentially found a treatment option for Jorah Mormont's greyscale in a book. "I found the procedure in a study of rare diseases by Archmaester Pylos". (Special)

31:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell opens up Archmaester Pylos' tome on Rare Diseases, which contains the instructions for the Greyscale treatment he is to perform on Jorah. (Special)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

50:08 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Archmaester Ebrose: "It's a meticulous, difficult procedure. Many Maesters whose chains are heavy with healing links have attempted it and failed. Yet you succeeded. How?"
Sam: "I read the books and followed the instructions." (Special)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

32:38 (+3) Jon Snow:

Missandei: "Forgive me, but may I ask a question? ... Your name is Jon Snow, but your father's name is Ned Stark?"
Jon Snow: "I'm a bastard. My mother and father weren't married." (Special)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

46:49 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Sam reads from a book as he transcribes it onto a fresh set of paper, before handing it over to Baby Sam. (Special)

submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

25:49 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric lights his sword on fire as the wight bear descends on the party. (Special)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

It was badass, but I assume they're gonna do it in every fight, which would include some automatism as well? I liked the part where Beric lit up his sword to burn out Thoros' wound - if I understood that correctly :D So maybe a special would be points for every time lighting up a sword for non-fighting purposes. However, I have no idea if this will ever happen again.
Generally, the swordsonfire are fooken awesome, so I'd be fine with them getting points for it, even if it means to automatic extra points for every fight. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 22
I was thinking the ignition scenes where they are shown lighting it up, but not just for the flaming sword being already on. -nyan

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2017 Aug 22 Lem Lemoncake likes this
I like that special as well. -talindsey

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2017 Aug 22
When he burnt Thoros' wound, it was already on fire from the fight with the bear -emilien.raggi

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2017 Aug 22
I forgot I had already given Beric one for everytime he fights with the flaming sword. I'm going to just change it to the ignition - it's a cooler moment than just seeing him in the background with the sword, and the points should be the same (he had 1 fight scene without showing the ignition, but also ignited it once to burn Thoros' body which wasn't a fight). -nyan

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2017 Aug 23 jake.kmiech and emilien.raggi like this

40:06 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric lights up his flaming sword to cremate the remains of Thoros of Myr. (Special)

47:04 (+3) Beric Dondarrion:

Beric lights up his firesaber as the wight army approaches over the re-frozen ice. (Special)

54:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow drops Longclaw on the frozen ice sheet after he is tackled under water by the wights during the dragon evacuation. (Special)

The Feels

Episode 5: Eastwatch

15:08 (+0) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

©
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