Matchup: Make King's Landing great again!!! vs the asses kickers for Ep 2

Show me what you got!!!

Make King's Landing great again!!! (nikolli.xhorxha)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Wine	Sex	Special
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#35	28	0	0	0	25	3
Samwell Tarly A steward of the Night's Watch, Samwell has been sent south to Oldtown to begin his training as a Maester. He is a close friend to Jon Snow, and one of the few people known to have killed a White Walker.	#23	22	5	6	5	0	6
Varys Formerly the Master of Whisperers in King's Landing, Varys now pulls the political strings for Daenerys Targaryen, arranging alliances with the Westerosi Houses Tyrell and Martell. He controls a vast network of spies.	#26	3	0	3	0	0	0
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#2	3	0	3	0	0	0
Septa Unella A Septa who took exceptional pleasure in torturing Cersei Lannister while she was a prisoner of the Sparrows, ringing the shame! shame! shame! bell as she made her walk of atonement. She is now held as a prisoner of Cersei.	#47	0	0	0	0	0	0
Bran Stark The fourth of the Stark children. A greenseer and a warg, Bran has mystical visions of the future and past, and has the ability to leap into the minds of others to control them - power he is only beginning to tap into. After having encountered the Three-Eyed Raven and the Night King in the far north, he now flees back south to the Wall.	#11	0	0	0	0	0	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#14	0	0	0	0	0	0
Meera Reed The eldest child of Howland Reed, bannerman to the Starks. She assists Bran in his journeys north of the Wall and is the only other surviving member of his party.	#38	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		56	5	12	5	25	9

the asses kickers (fitoanduaga)

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Insults	Wine	Deaths	Special
Obara Sand The eldest of Prince Oberyn Martell's bastard children, known as the Sand Snakes. She wields a spear.	#33	18	0	3	5	7	3
Theon Greyjoy Heir to the Iron Islands, and formerly a ward of House Stark. Theon is slowly recovering from physical and mental breakdown during his time as a prisoner of Ramsay Bolton. He currently accompanies his sister Yara Greyjoy, who has pledged her Ironborn forces to the cause of Daenerys Targaryen.	#9	18	10	0	5	0	3
Qyburn The new Master of Whispers in King's Landing, loyally serving Queen Cersei Lannister. A disgraced former Maester, he engages in many scientific experiments in his dungeon lab	#21	3	0	0	0	0	3
Jaime Lannister The second of the Lannister children, he is Cersei's lover and twin brother, and also the father of her three (now deceased) bastard children, the supposed sons and daughters of the late King Robert Baratheon. He also serves as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.	#4	3	0	3	0	0	0
Sandor Clegane (The Hound) A fearsome Lannister knight, formerly known as the Hound. After being left for dead after losing a fight with Brienne of Tarth, he recovered and briefly reformed as a laborer in a nonviolent commune, but has joined with Beric Dondarrion and the Brotherhood without Banners after bandits attack and destroy the village.	#16	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ed Sheeran	#45	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gendry A bastard son of Robert Baratheon, although this fact is not widely known (even to Gendry himself). After being captured by Melisandre, he is freed by Ser Davos and escaped Dragonstone by rowboat. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but he will likely emerge at some point with the swolest arms Westeros has ever seen.	#28	0	0	0	0	0	0
Thoros of Myr A Red Priest from the city of Myr - he is a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Beric Dondarrion.	#40	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		42	10	6	10	7	9

Kills

33:54 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell plies off the infected Greyscale tissue from Jorah's chest, with all the gentleness of a spoon digging through hot pie. (Major Injury of Named Character)

28 more comments - see full thread

You referenced Tyrion's scar which is tiny compared to that of a burn victim. So even if we made the criteria: Tyrion's scar or larger, I think we would still see quite a few injuries that might have otherwise been considered minor now being considered major.

Also real life burn victims don't have access to the medical ointments that Samwell is applying to Jorah, for all we know Jorah could come out of this looking like nothing happened. And I can assure you if that's the case I will definitely be arguing for these points to be removed retroactively. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
Is anyone else having trouble with trades mine won't allow accept ion, rejection, or counter
-talindsey

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2017 Jul 28
@ssantise admittedly they've minimized Tyrion's scar in subsequent seasons. If you recall back to S2 they made a big thing about having bandaged up his entire face and was worried that Shae wouldn't love him anymore. I do think that if Tyrion recovers from the battle, has a cosmetic scar but they don't really make a big thing about it, it wouldn't be a major injury. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

51:13 (+4) Theon Greyjoy:

Theon cuts down two of Euron's soldiers as they board Yara's ship. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

52:01 (+4) Theon Greyjoy:

Theon kills two more soldiers. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:43 (+2) Theon Greyjoy:

Theon cuts down one last Ironborn, before his uncle Euron calls to him. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Political Wins

5:16 (+3) Varys:

Varys convinces Daenerys that she doesn't need to demand his blind allegiance, as long as she is a just ruler.

Daenerys: "Proven himself loyal? Quite the opposite. If he dislikes one monarch, he conspires to crown the next one. What kind of servant is this?"

Varys: "The kind the realm needs. Incompetence should not be rewarded with blind loyalty. As long as I have my eyes, I'll use them. I wasn't born into a great house. I came from nothing. I was so sold as a slave, and carved up as an offering. When I was a child I lived in gutters, alleys, abandoned houses. You want to know where my true loyalties lie? Not with any king or queen, but with the people. The people, who suffer under despots and prosper under just rule, the people whose hearts you aim to win." (Convincing Argument)

19:17 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn presents a high-powered dragon-killing ballista to Cersei. "Apparently, one of Daenerys' dragons was wounded by spears in the fighting pits of Meereen. If they can be wounded, they can be killed." (New Weapon)

30:55 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell sneaks into Jorah's room to try an experimental Greyscale treatment on him, despite Archmaester Ebrose's forbidding him to do so. (Executive Decision)

12 more comments - see full thread

a key component of an executive decision is that the decision is made to someone who you have power over. it cant be 'Executive' without that power dynamic. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24 nyan likes this
'Naughty' points? -xdwxrd

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise I would not necessarily hold that followers and decisions are intertwined. Samwell is not directly a follower of the Archmaester, however the Archmaester is still making Citadel-wide rules for all Maesters (and Maesters-in-training), which Samwell must obey as part of the order. Just like a student is not necesarily a follower of a principal, but the principal can still make school-wide decisions that affect all the students. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

38:07 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell's letter is the final straw that convinces Jon Snow to ally with Daenerys Targaryen.

"This message was sent to me by Samwell Tarly. He was my brother at the Night's Watch. A man I trust as much as anyone in this world. He's discovered proof that Dragonstone sits on a mountain of dragonglass." (Convincing Argument)

14 more comments - see full thread

I don't like the idea of tweaking the rulebook constantly so that everyone can get as many points of possible. I think its important to have a concrete set of rules that we can all rely on. I agree that there must be room for changes as the show evolves but I feel there should be a bit more formality around making substantial changes to the rulebook. -ssantise

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2017 Jul 25
@hindsight44 one definition of the word argument is a two-way debate that involves dialogue. but a "convincing argument" is just a one-way statement. if people exchange convincing arguments, that entire dialogue can be considered an argument. if an attorney presents an argument at a case, they are the only ones speaking, until the other side present their argument(s). if someone writes a critical essay (or like in this case, a letter), they are making a single argument to persuade the reader of something. these are all one-way arguments -hkeseyan

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2017 Jul 25
@ssantise and @hkeseyan, basically you are both on the sides that I'm trying to balance when refining the scorekeeping. As @ssantise says, for consistency and fairness, the rules shouldn't change drastically. And definitely not for reasons like "we want there to be as many scores as possible". But as @hkeseyan and I'm sure lots of people realized, there are lots of areas to improve on the scoring rules, and that's especially true since the original rules were just what I could think of on my own when I started the game - each year lots of players are bringing in new ideas and are continually making the game better, and we still haven't quite reached the point where everything if fully stabilized.

For this convincing argument case, I think @hkeseyan gets at a better spirit of the rules for scoring, which isn't strictly about the decision by a character being reversed, but simply a character effectively convincing another to go with their plan of action (but with some real effort needed to convince, not simply "Hey man you wanna kill some Lannisters? Sure let's do it.").

In hindsight it was a mistake on my part to word it concretely around a decision being already made - I had been thinking too narrowly about examples like Robert and his Small Council, and it doesn't cover things like a brooding, indecisive Jon even though that was the intention.

So given that, I'll change that rulebook line to the following:

A character can be "convinced" only after they had initially decided in the opposite decision, or shown some resistance or indecision to the arguments.

Definitely it's not taken lightly and I understand each of these changes affects the scoring expectations negatively. For the most part I hope all of these tweaks are getting closer in line with the spirit of what deserves scoring. And I believe, is not inconsistent with what we've scored before (if anyone is finding examples of rejected scores because a character was simply indecisive vs. fully decided in the opposite direction, let me know. But otherwise I think this is the first time it's come up.) -nyan

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2017 Jul 31 ssantise likes this

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

13:42 (+3) Jaime Lannister:

Randyll Tarly: "Ser Jaime, I believe you know my son."
Jaime: "Rickon, isn't it?"
Dickon: "Dickon."
Jaime: "That's it." (walks past Dickon to speak with Randyll) (Funny Line)

48:28 (+3) Obara Sand:

Tyene Sand: "Maybe I'll kill you both before we take King's Landing. And then I won't have to share."
Obara and Nymeria: "(baby voice) Mammmaaa!" (Funny Line)

Shouldn't Tyene Sand get points for this threat to Obara and Nymeria -kimberly.ramia

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2017 Jul 24
Tyene also killed a few people last night. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24
I think this "threat" was made in jest; hence funny line and not a threat -armizzle.diaz

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2017 Jul 24
Yeah, scored it as Tyene trying to make a playful jest... and then Obara/Nymeria having the better comeback to complete the dialogue. So the funny part is the "mamaaa" response, and by itself the Tyene line isn't much of a creative insult. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

Glasses of Wine Consumed

31:39 (+5) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell takes a hearty swig of the rum he gives to Jorah, before attempting the Greyscale surgery. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

48:08 (+5) Obara Sand:

Obara drinks in her hammock below deck, as the Sand Sisters argue over who they will kill in King's Landing. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

48:33 (+5) Theon Greyjoy:

Theon drinks with Yara and Ellaria Sand below deck as they sail for Sunspear. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

26:45 (+25) Missandei:

Missandei gets with Grey Worm on the very last night before he sails off for Casterly Rock. (Act of Intercourse)

21 more comments - see full thread

If only this website was as popular when we had the old Theon/Myrham's Daughter on Ship debate, what would the masses have said! -coconnor723

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2017 Jul 26 nyan likes this
Grey worm's mouth made contact with her vagina. The rules don't say genital-on-genital contact. Also I hate the term reproductive organ since the vagina doesn't really do any of the reproduction.

She def didn't show box tho -alicehanners

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2017 Jul 30
Ah, good points that you brought up, 'reproductive' was the wrong word to use. I'll change that to contact with the same nude parts that are counted for points (boobs, butts, and the frontal nudity). I suppose that now includes spanking as a sexual act. ?

Will also clarify in the rulebook that it's just one person's sexy bits that need to be contacted to count. So giving a handie or oral sex will count for both people, it doesn't need to be fully reciprocal. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

Deaths

53:07 (+5) Obara Sand:

Obara is impaled with the shards of her own spear by Euron Greyjoy. (Death)

56:02 (+2) Obara Sand:

In the aftermath of Euron's ambush on Yara's fleet, Obara's body is shown impaled with her own spears onto the bowsprit of the burning ship. (Dead Body Appearance)

They show Obara and Nymeria's bodies twice.... They show them then cut to Theon then show the bodies again. -jessmell14

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2017 Jul 24 nathan likes this
The dead body appearances are counted each scene, but not for every individual clip, otherwise there's a lot of potential to rack up points for a scene with a lot of cuts. A scene is demarcated with a location or time skip. I'll update the rule text to clarify that. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24 kimbo likes this
Should Eiron get points for taunting for these? Then has seen them but maybe compounded in a later episode? -easson27

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2017 Jul 24

Special

8:35 (+3) Missandei:

Missandei gives a lesson on Valyrian gendered pronouns in ancient prophecies: "Your Grace, forgive me, but your translation is not quite accurate. That noun has no gender in High Valyrian, so proper translation for that prophecy would be 'the prince or princess who was promised will bring the dawn'. (Special)

19:17 (+3) Qyburn:

29:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell mentions that he has potentially found a treatment option for Jorah Mormont's greyscale in a book. "I found the procedure in a study of rare diseases by Archmaester Pylos". (Special)

31:52 (+3) Samwell Tarly:

Samwell opens up Archmaester Pylos' tome on Rare Diseases, which contains the instructions for the Greyscale treatment he is to perform on Jorah. (Special)

48:11 (+3) Obara Sand:

to Nymeria: "The Mountain killed father. He'll crush you with one hand." (Special)

55:00 (+3) Theon Greyjoy:

Euron taunts Theon into fleeing the battle as he holds Yara captive: "Ah come on, you cockless coward. I have her. Come and get her." (Special)

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