Crows Before Hoes

23.5 roto pts (#2)
Z-Score: 0.299 (percentile: 61.76%)
Weeks at #1: 2
Categories won: Political Wins (111), Acts of Intercourse (75)
Best Week: Episode 3: The Queen's Justice (+3.5 roto points)
Team MVP: Jon Snow (picked #2, 165 points, 43.42% of team total)

Roster Stats

Character	Drafted	Total	Kills	Politics	Insults	Wine	Sex	Deaths	Special
Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	#2	165	89	36	15	0	10	0	15
Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	#7	140	5	45	18	20	40	0	12
Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	#23	31	0	3	0	0	25	0	3
Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	#10	27	0	15	12	0	0	0	0
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	#15	17	0	12	0	0	0	5	0
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	#18	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Totals		380	94	111	45	20	75	5	30

Roster

charId	Character	Special
39	Jon Snow Recently declared King in the North, he is the bastard son of Ned Stark, and formerly served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before he was betrayed by his fellow men.	* +1 each time he unintentionally drops Longclaw * +1 point each time he is called a bastard in his presence * Ghost's actions contribute to his points.
18	Cersei Lannister Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, after the death of her last remaining child Tommen Baratheon. She suffers from a rare water allergy.	* +1 special point every time she pours wine or requests a glass be poured * +1 point when someone (excl. Jaime) references incest with Jaime or her childrens' bastardy directly to her * 2x multiplier for sex acts involving incest (first cousin or closer)
5	Sansa Stark The second eldest of the Stark children. After being held as a prisoner of House Bolton, Sansa managed to escape and, with the help of Jon Snow and the Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsay Bolton to reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. She is a huge fan of lemon cakes.	* Lady's actions contribute to her points. * +1 point in every scene she cries
79	Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger) Lord Protector of the Vale, Littlefinger effectively controls the Knights of the Vale through the easily manipulated Robbin Arryn. He is a master manipulator who will stop at nothing for power.	+1 point in the intercourse category for sex events that occur in his brothels 2x multiplier for betrayal events +1 for every kiss he gives to Sansa
28	Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) A knight and the head of House Clegane, he serves as a member of the Kingsguard and Cersei's personal muscle. He is a massive and impossibly strong warrior, although he remains speechless and zombie-like ever since being wounded in a Trial by Combat against Oberyn Martell.	* Scores for any kills of non-combatants * Scores for each sentence spoken * Interacting with bowls
37	Missandei A freed slave from Astapor, who serves Daenerys as an advisor and translator.	+1 point for each scene where she speaks Valyrian or translates.

Kills

Episode 2: Stormborn

43:40 (+1) Jon Snow:

Jon chokes a creeping Littlefinger against a wall in the Crypts of Winterfell. "Talk to my sister, and I'll kill you myself." (Minor Injury of Named Character)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

0:00 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei plants a kiss on Tyene Sand, poisoning her with the Long Farewell - the same poison used by Ellaria Sand to kill Myrcella Baratheon. (Major Injury of Named Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

22 more comments - see full thread

Who seems satisfied??? This is baffling to me. You're awarding death points for someone who may not be dead. What happens if Tyene is still alive next episode and does something? No death points without confirmed death. -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 3 righteous likes this
@alicehanners there are no death points yet. these are major injury points for the poison which will be upgraded to 10 total for kill points if the poison kills her (to prevent a 5+10 double dip for Cersei) and then 5 to Tyene when she dies -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 3 nyan likes this
Doesn't make sense to give death points for this, but it's certainly major injury. -righteous

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2017 Aug 8

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

33:06 (+10) Jon Snow:

After dodging a blow, Jon slices through the White Walker leading the scouting party with Longclaw, shattering it to pieces. (Kill of Named Character)

33:07 (+14) Jon Snow:

7 of the wights in the scouting party disintegrate after Jon kills the White Walker leading them.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

15 more comments - see full thread

It feels incredibly unfair to not count the deaths as kills. Those 7 Wights died as a result of a combat situation, the kills need to be attributed. The surrender analogy does not work, in a normal situation the surrendering soldiers would be taken captive because they are alive and still functioning. In this scenario the wights couldn't be captured because they were destroyed due to Jon's actions, the wight they DID capture can more accurately be seen as a surrender. If anything, this resembles an execution of prisoners, where Jon passed the judgement and swung the sword.

Also I agree that it is unfair to remove the points after a week, where no new arguments were brought up to strengthen the case for removal. -brandonthebigB

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2017 Aug 28 hindsight44 likes this
When soldiers surrender you have gained an asset or at the very least levrage. There is a specific advantage to gaining surrendered soldiers that is not at play here. They were once functional wights that would kill any living thing and now theyre nothing. The rules state that kills are counted regardless of reason. Jon Snows actions directly led those 7 wights dying........again -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 28
Yeah the delay in scoring update is my bad, I've ended up on another spotty-internet week during travel for this one and wasn't able to do these earlier. The summer run for S7 has really caused some conflicts with travel, I'll have to figure out the S8 schedule much better.

I think you guys are right from a scorekeeping purity standpoint. The wights went from soldiers to being dead because of this action, to call it a surrender can work as a stretch but yes, it is a stretch we'd be making to find a way to discount the points. I started thinking about parallel examples, with a very basic kill switch action that causes large numbers of deaths. You might say Bronn igniting the Blackwater Bay wildfire, or a hypothetical Qyburn's little bird igniting the wildfire underneath the Sept of Baelor, and I think most players would readily accept those as valid scores.

Giving it some further thought, I did have that same first impression of "cheapness" as most of the others who initially commented. I think that comes from having such a directly comparable set of kills in the exact same scene - the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, et. al. are busy hacking away at the wights for their measly 1-2 kills each, and then Jon swoops in with an easy 7-kill swing. But it can be fine that some kills are cheaper than others, and while a jackpot scenario may exist in the future with whoever takes down the Night King, it's a much more equitable free-for-all for any character to achieve, unlike say Daenerys' dragon roastings.

Perhaps with better per-league tools, we can again have multiple rulesets for S8 that could include or exclude the wight-follower kills.

Anyhow for this one, I'll go back to the original decision which is to count the 7 as kills. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, emilien.raggi like this

47:17 (+34) Jon Snow:

Jon cuts down 17 wights in the ensuing battle as the Night King's Army of the Dead descends upon the group, up until Daenerys and her dragons arrive. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

52:39 (+20) Jon Snow:

Jon realizes he is currently only 4th place on the Kills leaderboard, and climbs back down off of Drogon to score 10 more wight kills in garbage time, as all the others wisely get onboard. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

54:34 (+8) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow cuts down four wights after witnessing Viseron's death, before realizing that trying to cut his way to the Night King for a 1v1 was a terrible idea and that he should really get back to the dragon evac. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

23:04 (+2) Jon Snow:

At the audience in King's Landing, Jon demonstrates the two ways of defeating the Army of the Dead, burning the wight's severed hand, and then finishing off the dismembered wight with a dragonglass dagger. (Kill of Unnamed Character)

Dang, I thought Qyburn was going to come away with a new specimen for his experiments here. Would've been cool to see a franken-wight in S8. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 Lem Lemoncake and emilydcampa like this
I noticed the "Captured Wight" was added as a draftable character. Would that not make him more significant / a named character? -kimbo

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2017 Aug 29 brandonthebigB, jedjackoway, jake.kmiech like this
I think we'll keep the criteria for "boss fight", which is the character being featured in a battle scene being a badass and/or owning the other extras. Not every draftable character will qualify to be a named/boss fight kill, we had this earlier with a few speculative draftable characters that ended up having extremely minor roles. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29

Political Wins

Episode 1: Dragonstone

12:31 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon refuses to strip the Umbers and Karstarks of their castles for Smalljon and Harald's treasonous siding with Ramsay Bolton, despite the objections from Sansa and the other Northern lords.

"...I will not punish a son for his father's sins, and I will not take a family home away from a family it has belonged to for centuries.
That is my decision, and my decision is final." (Executive Decision)

13:14 (+6) Jon Snow:

Jon receives pledges of loyalty from Ned Umber and Alys Karstark, the new heads of their respective houses after Smalljon Umber and Harald Karstark died in the Battle of Winterfell. (New Follower/Prisoner)

22:40 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Over Jaime's protests, Cersei meets with Euron Greyjoy to hear his alliance proposal, although it ultimately ends in Euron leaving empty-handed with a promise to return with a gift. (Executive Decision)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

24 more comments - see full thread

Yeah to me, overruling Jaime is the most concrete thing that's been done so far. It's a little soft that simply meeting with Euron is a "major decision", but Jaime argues pretty hard against doing that and as Queen, and exerts her power by just doing it anyway. -nyan

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2017 Jul 19 jedjackoway likes this
Original submission from @hindsight44: "hey man i feel like Cersei kinda got boned on the political front. the way i see it she got 3 seperate political events. +3 for overuling jaime with an executive order on the iron born, he protested euron completley but cersei still brokered a deal with him.which leads to my second event when she brokered a deal with euron which should be+3. finally euron left episode agreeing to to the bidding or cersei which makes him a followet of cersei which should be another +3." -nyan

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2017 Jul 20
You don't always have to outright ask to get what you want. To make someone think it is their idea to do what u want is perfect. It was a deal. -j.stainless11

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2017 Jul 20 hindsight44 likes this

Episode 2: Stormborn

19:17 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Qyburn presents a high-powered dragon-killing ballista to Cersei. "Apparently, one of Daenerys' dragons was wounded by spears in the fighting pits of Meereen. If they can be wounded, they can be killed." (New Weapon)

39:03 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow decides that he must go to Dragonstone to meet with Daenerys, despite objections from Sansa and nearly all the Northern lords. "Daenerys is a Queen. Only a King could convince her to help us. It has to be me." (Executive Decision)

41:39 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa is given command of Winterfell as Jon travels to meet with Daenerys Targaryen. "You are my sister. You're the only Stark in Winterfell. Until I return, the North is yours." (New Title)

7 more comments - see full thread

its not a promotion if when jon comes back she is going to be right back where she was before, if hypothetically jon was to die on his way to dragonstone then yes sansa should be rewarded the points but since it is known that jon remains the king in the north upon his return then sansa shouldnt be rewarded points for being a stand-in. -as38

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2017 Jul 24
Edd Tolett got points last year as Interim LC. Sansa is Interim Warden of the North. Also these positions do exist in government. If the president is incapactated the Vice President takes over till the president can resume his office.

Sansa has no idea she is Jons 'vice' warden (she asks him angrily WHO will rule while hes gone because even she doesnt know.) So when Jon promotes her its new to her as well. Until this point Jon had not assigned a person to rule in the times when he couldnt. -hindsight44

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2017 Jul 24
Interim or acting titles will count. It's definitely new power for Sansa. Possibly this is better scored as "New Castle", as she's been given command of Winterfell? -nyan

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2017 Jul 24

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

22:34 (+6) Cersei Lannister:

Euron Greyjoy presents his gift to Cersei - the captured Ellaria and Tyene Sand. (New Follower/Prisoner)

23:28 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei accepts Euron Greyjoy's proposal of an alliance, appointing him at the head of her navy. (New Follower/Prisoner)

30:40 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei casually reveals her night of incest with Jaime in her chambers as she opens the door for one of her handmaidens.

Jaime: "What are you doing? No one can see us like this."
Cersei: "I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, I'll do as I please." (Executive Decision)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

I'm not sure that this really qualifies as a "major decision"? Since we know the handmaiden is is not going to do anything. But it is Cersei flexing her political muscle to Jaime. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1
I Interprered this as two things. First was her decision that she is longer hiding their incest
Second that between her and Jaime she is the one wearing the proverbial pants. Also because this is within a sex scene if it does receive points it should get the 2x multiplier. I can see both sides of this argument however. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 1
It doesn't seem very 'executive' at this point. -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1
I agree that this does deserved points for an Executive Decision, her openly revealing her incestual relationship is a Major Decision. However Cersie definitely should not be getting 2X multiplier for non-sexual acts. She already is probably going to be the highest scoring character in the game and if shes going to be more open about her relationship with Jamie she definitely cannot be getting 2X for everything she does.

I think we need clarification on the Cersie's special. The rule currently reads: "2x multiplier for sex scenes involving incest" although I believe it has the same meaning, I think it should be refined to read "2x multiplier for sexual ACTS involving incest". -ssantise

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
@ssantise thats a good clarification, I'll change the text. The intention was definitely for the sex act, not everything happening in the scenes -nyan

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2017 Aug 1

33:09 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei convinces the Iron Bank against investing in Daenerys Targaryen, and to give her an extension on her loan instead: "From what I gather, she considers herself more of a revolutionary than a monarch. In your experience, how do bankers usually fare with revolutionaries? The Lannisters owe the Iron Bank quite a lot of money, but Lannisters always pay their debts. Do former slaves or Dothraki or dragons?"

Tycho Nestoris: "Your father's daughter, indeed." (Convincing Argument)

40:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (New Weapon)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

51:27 (+3) Missandei:

Missandei convinces Daenerys against flying out herself to hunt down Euron Greyjoy's Iron Fleet.

Tyrion: "You'd be flying around the open seas alone for who knows how long."
Daenerys: "I wouldn't be alone. I would have Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal. What can anyone do to them?"
Missandei: "They can still do something to you. It only takes one arrow." (Convincing Argument)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

23:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon reveals the ancient petroglyphs carved into the obsidian cave at Dragonstone, showing the Children of the Forest and the First Men fighting together against the White Walkers.

"There is something else I want to show you, Your Grace. The children of the forest made these. ... A very long time ago. They were right here, standing where we're standing. Before there were Targaryens or Starks or Lannisters. ... They were here together, the children and the First Men.
... They fought together against their common enemy. Despite their differences, despite their suspicions. Together. We need to do the same if we're going to survive. Because the enemy is real. It's always been real." (Secret Discovery)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

0:00 (+3) Jon Snow:

Gendry enthusiastically pledges to follow Jon Snow beyond the Wall to take on the White Walkers. (New Follower/Prisoner)

11:49 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

With the delivery of the Tyrell gold and a repayment of debts to the Iron Bank, Cersei secures a new loan: "We have the Tyrell gold, we have the Iron Bank behind us. We can buy mercenaries." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

12:57 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime explains to Cersei that it was Olenna Tyrell who had assassinated Joffrey, not Tyrion.

Jaime: "It was Olenna. She confessed before she died."
Cersei: "And this was before or after she drank the poison you so kindly provided her?"
Jaime: "After."
Cersei: "And you believed her?"
Jaime: "If you were Olenna, would you rather have seen your granddaughter married to Joffrey or Tommen? Which one would Margaery have been better able to control? Which one would have made Olenna the true ruler of the Seven Kingdoms? She was telling the truth." (Secret Discovery)

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei rejects Jaime's plea to find a peaceful solution out of the conflict with Daenerys.

Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

same idiocy by me, Overrulibg decision. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 15
same principle as her oberruling jaime with Euron -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Did any decision come out of this? I'm not sure that Jaime had a proposal or that Cersei had an order at the end of the day. It was sort of an expression of sentiments, Jaime saying they can't win against dragons and Cersei saying they'll still fight on and find a way. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
Overuling doesnt mean mean you need to order anything. Her decision was to stay the course against a third parties disaproval. In a court of law a judge uses overrule so the subject can stay the course and not accept whatever arguement the lawyer is trying to present. Cersei didnt give an order or change anything at all when she Overuled Jaimes advice to meet with Euron, she simply stayed the course after overuling her generals advice. Also this was clearly not a simple tit for tat conversation, Jaime says at the beginning of the episode he has to tell Cersei how bad this is. As general of her army in his next scene he specifcally went to her to try and convince her that this is a war that they will lose. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 16
Yeah I think that works as a light decision. Jaime didn't have a concrete solution but he was sort of proposing that they start looking for alternate, peaceful solutions and that was rejected pretty strongly. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18

26:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Over Davos' and Daenerys' protests, Jon decides that he'll personally lead the expedition north of the Wall to capture a wight.

Davos Seaworth: "You can't lead a raid beyond the Wall. You're not in the Night's Watch anymore, you're King in the North."
Jon: "I'm the only one here who's fought them. I'm the only one here who knows them."
Daenerys: "I haven't given you permission to leave."
Jon: "With respect, Your Grace, I don't need your permission. I am a King." (Executive Decision)

41:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei reveals that she is already aware of Jaime and Tyrion's secret meeting.

Cersei: "Are you going to punish him?"
Jaime: "Tyrion?"
Cersei: "Bronn. He betrayed you. He set up a meeting without your knowledge or consent. Do you think anything of importance happens in this city without me knowing?" (Secret Discovery)

51:24 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger acquires the only copy of a raven letter written by Sansa while she was in King's Landing, when she was compelled by Cersei to ask Robb Stark to come south and bend the knee.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Secret Discovery)

Ehhh. :| Secret? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 16
He already knew about this, how else would he ask for that specific letter? -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 16
It does fall a little bit between Secret and acquiring a valuable item, like a weapon. He knows of the existence of the letter, but now he wields that information on concrete form which he can use to blackmail Sansa, influence the Northern lords, or sow the seeds of doubt to Arya. -nyan

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2017 Aug 16
it's not a secret but it is a Secret Discovery... the letter was clearly not known to exist among others in Winterfell. -pacelli929

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2017 Aug 17 nyan likes this
Yeah, it's not a secret discovery for 'this' character though. He's not discovering anything, why is he getting points for it. -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 17
I could change it to "loot" which was a new subcategory added in another discussion about Cersei/Tycho acquiring the Tyrell gold and securing a new Iron Bank loan. I think people could agree it is like a New Weapon, but an informational one rather than a physical one? In any case the scores are the same. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 jedjackoway likes this

51:24 (+6) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger has been using Maester Wolkan to dig through the Winterfell archives, portraying it as a command by Sansa Stark.

Maester Wolkan: "I found it, my Lord. It took some searching. Maester Luwin's archives are very thorough."
Petyr: "You're sure this is the only copy in Winterfell?
Wolkan: "Yes, my Lord."
Petyr: "Lady Stark thanks you for your service." (Act of Betrayal)

53:54 (+3) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger snoops from the shadows, having observed Arya Stark tracking him and breaking into his room. (Secret Discovery)

57:14 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon silences the squabbling in the Eastwatch cells and recruits the prisoners into his expedition.

Jon: "He's right. We're all on the same side."
Gendry: "How can we be?"
Jon: "We're all breathing." (Convincing Argument)

Definitely deserves some points, but maybe this should be under convincing argument -kevinpetsky

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2017 Aug 16 hkeseyan and nyan like this
If he weren't the one in charge making the decision, and that line swayed the decision-maker, it'd be a convincing argument. IMO, this is the right category for this. Whether his decision was convincing or not we shall see. -dopeghoti

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2017 Aug 17
More of a semantics issue, but I switched this from Executive to Convince. I took this more of a line to Gendry who doesn't work with the Brotherhood - it's not a command that Gendry fall in line but attempting to convince Gendry that his beef doesn't matter as the White Walkers are the true enemy. -nyan

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2017 Aug 18 hkeseyan likes this

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

33:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow and his crew successfully ambush the White Walker scouting party, killing the leader and capturing the live wight they were looking for. (Victorious Battle)

44:01 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa commands Brienne of Tarth to journey south to King's Landing for the meeting convened to present the White Walker threat, leaving Sansa alone in Winterfell despite her protests.

Brienne: I sworn an oath to protect you and your sister. If I abandon you-"
Sansa: "The trip to King's Landing is long, Lady Brienne, and you won't be travelling on summer roads. The sooner you leave, the better your chances of making it on time." (Executive Decision)

61:27 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Sansa goes snooping into Arya's room in an attempt to recover the copy of the raven letter. (Act of Betrayal)

61:57 (+3) Sansa Stark:

While snooping through her room, Sansa discover's Arya's stash of faces. (Secret Discovery)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

26:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

In what is universally regarded as a terrible idea by all sides, Jon single-handedly dissolves the Lannister-Targaryen truce in the name of honor and hopefully getting into Daenerys' pants later.

Cersei: "In return, the King in the North will extend this truce. He will remain in the North where he belongs. He will not take up arms against the Lannisters. He will not choose sides. ... I know Ned Stark's son will be true to his word."
Jon Snow: "I am true to my word. Or I try to be. That is why I cannot give you what you ask. I cannot serve two queens. And I have already pledged myself to Queen Daenerys of House Targaryen." (Executive Decision)

45:47 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon convinces Daenerys to sail with him to the North, rather than flying on her own.

"It's your decision, Your Grace. But if we're going to be allies in this war, it's important for the Northerners to see us as allies. If we sail to White Harbor together, I think it sends a better message." (Convincing Argument)

55:58 (+3) Sansa Stark:

"You stand accused of murder. You stand accused of treason. How do you answer these charges... Lord Baelish?" (Act of Betrayal)

Why didn't Sansa get the points for Littlefinger getting executed? Arya says that it happened because of Sansa's order. -fatcatt316

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2017 Aug 29
Only 3 points to Sansa for orchestrating LF's execution? Is this not, at least, a "major decision?" -marr.virginia

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2017 Aug 29
@fatcatt316 the Kills scoring for S7 requires that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword", so the ordered executions no longer count, only the person doing the actual dirty work.

@marr.virginia the major decision is for characters having debates and one character winning over the other. I don't think the Stark kids debated over this one very much. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29
OK rules are rules. "He who passes the sentence should swing the sword" isn't the most clear justification for the rules, though. Arya did not pass the sentence. Conversely, Daenerys never swings the sword. Even though she has dragons(!), I don't remember her ever "doing the actual dirty work." -marr.virginia

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2017 Aug 29
Danys special is that her dragons contribute to her actions. If that wasnt her special she wouldnt get points -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 29

62:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei declares that the Lannister armies will not be sent north to help fight the White Walkers, over Jaime's protests.

"The monsters are real. The White Walkers, the dragons, the Dothraki screamers all the frightening stories we heard when we were young, they're all real. So be it. Let the monsters kill each other. And while they battle in the North, we take back the lands that belong to us." (Executive Decision)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

62:50 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei figures that Daenerys has lost one of her dragons and has only two left.

Cersei: "How many dragons did you see at the pit?"
Jaime: "Two."
Cersei: "What happened to the third?
Jaime: "For all we know, it's guarding her fleet!"
Cersei: "She came here with her dragons and her Dothraki and her Unsullied. She came here to show us all her power. No, something happened. The dragons are vulnerable." (Secret Discovery)

63:59 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei has bought the services of the mercenary Golden Company. "Highgarden bought us the most powerful army in Essos the Golden Company. 20,000 men, horses, elephants, I believe." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)

64:12 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei reneges on her promise to send her armies to fight the Army of the Dead in the north, threatening Jaime with treason for disobeying.

Jaime: "I pledged to ride north. I intend to honor that pledge."
Cersei: "And that will be treason."
Jaime: "Treason?"
Cersei: "Disobeying your queen's command, fighting with her enemies. What would you call it?"
Jaime: "Doesn't matter what I'd call it." (Act of Betrayal)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

I have the executive decision to Jaime, since he's going to lead the armies north against her wishes. Cersei lost out politically when he called her bluff. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29
Jaime isnt leadong her armies though, it was pretty clear he defected, he wasnt in any Lannister armor and was riding by himself. The reason he left was because Cersei overruled him. Also i think Cersei has to somehow, someway get betrayal points somewhere for this episode. She played everyone! -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 29 nyan, emilien.raggi, Lem Lemoncake like this
Ooh, I'll have to rewatch and do some reading, but I think you're right since it's just Jaime trotting out alone. This could definitely count for Cersei then. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 emilien.raggi likes this
Had the same impression as hindsight44. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 30
But would probably only count it as a betrayal - which in some way very often obviously is an executive decision. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 30

Insults Delivered / Funny Lines

Episode 1: Dragonstone

14:58 (+3) Jon Snow:

Sansa Stark: "They respect you, they really do, but you have to- Why are you laughing?"
Jon Snow: "What did father used to say? Everything before the word 'but' is horse shit." (Witty Insult)

submitted by andrei.sias (approved!)

34:47 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Petyr Baelish: "Why aren't you happy? What do you want that you do not have?"
Sansa Stark: "At the moment, peace and quiet."
(Witty Insult)

34:54 (+3) Sansa Stark:

"No need to seize the last word, Lord Baelish. I'll assume it was something clever." (Witty Insult)

submitted by xdwxrd (approved!)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

6:05 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion: "She's much smarter than she lets on."
Jon: "She's starting to let on." (Funny Line)

12:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)

submitted by nyan (approved!)

Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan likes this
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.

I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 Lem Lemoncake likes this
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd

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2017 Aug 1 mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan

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2017 Aug 2

28:34 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

to Ellaria Sand: "Your daughter will die here in this cell, and you will be here watching when she does. You'll be here the rest of your days. If you refuse to eat, we'll force food down your throat. You will live to watch your daughter rot. To watch that beautiful face collapse - to bone and dust. All the while contemplating the choices you've made.

Make sure the guards change the torches every few hours. I don't want her to miss a thing." (Threat)

7 more comments - see full thread

@ssleppy Cersei acquires the prisoner points here: http://fantasora.com/event/3296 -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 ssleppy likes this
I thought it wasn't considered a threat if they do the thing they are threatening? -alicehanners

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2017 Aug 3
I don't recall anything against carrying out the threat, just that the action itself shouldn't purely make the threat threatening, it should be the line having interesting wording. -nyan

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2017 Aug 4

43:00 (+3) Sansa Stark:

Petyr Baelish: "I know Cersei better than anyone here. If you turn your back on her-"
Sansa: "You don't know Cersei better than anyone here."
Petyr: "I only meant to say-"
Sansa: "That the woman who murdered my mother, father, and brother is dangerous? Thank you for your wise counsel." (Witty Insult)

Episode 5: Eastwatch

13:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jaime Lannister: "[Olenna's] dead, like her son, her grandchildren, her whole house. And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Witty Insult)

16:04 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon and Daenerys discuss her dragons.

Daenerys: "They're beautiful, aren't they?"
Jon: "It wasn't the word I was thinking of, but... but, yes, they are. Gorgeous beasts." (Funny Line)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

4:16 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tormund Giantsbane: "I can breathe again. Down south the air smells like pigshit."
Jon Snow: "You've never been down south."
Tormund: "I've been to Winterfell."
Jon: "That's the North." (Funny Line)

29:15 (+3) Sansa Stark:

on the Northern lords: "Yes, they turned their backs on Jon when it was time to retake Winterfell, and then they named him their King, and now they're ready to turn their backs on him again. How far would you trust men like that? They're all bloody wind vanes." (Witty Insult)

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

7:44 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

briefing Gregor Clegane in Jaime's presence: "If anything goes wrong, kill the silver-haired bitch first, then our brother, then the bastard who calls himself King. The rest of them you can kill in any order you see fit." (Threat)

submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)

19:45 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Jon Snow: "Lord Tyrion tells me a million people live in this city. They're about to become a million more soldiers in the Army of the Dead."
Cersei: "I imagine for most of them it would be an improvement." (Comeback)

27:06 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

after Jon Snow rejects her offer of truce: "Then there is nothing left to discuss. The dead will come north first. Enjoy dealing with them. We will deal with whatever is left of you." (Threat)

61:07 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei: "What are you doing?"
Jaime: "Preparing the expedition north."
Cersei: "Expedition north? I always knew you were the stupidest Lannister." (Witty Insult)

Glasses of Wine Consumed

Episode 1: Dragonstone

20:52 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei takes a sip from the glass while discussing the failed alliance with the Freys after Walder's assassination. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

28:15 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei downs a shot of Long Farewell antidote after poisoning Tyene Sand with a kiss. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

31:24 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks while discussing the Iron Throne's debt payments with Tycho Nestoris, a representative of the Iron Bank. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

6:40 (+5) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei drinks while discussing the delivery of Tyrell gold to Tycho Nestoris of the Iron Bank. (Glass of Wine Consumed)

Acts of Intercourse

Episode 2: Stormborn

26:45 (+25) Missandei:

Missandei gets with Grey Worm on the very last night before he sails off for Casterly Rock. (Act of Intercourse)

21 more comments - see full thread

If only this website was as popular when we had the old Theon/Myrham's Daughter on Ship debate, what would the masses have said! -coconnor723

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2017 Jul 26 nyan likes this
Grey worm's mouth made contact with her vagina. The rules don't say genital-on-genital contact. Also I hate the term reproductive organ since the vagina doesn't really do any of the reproduction.

She def didn't show box tho -alicehanners

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2017 Jul 30
Ah, good points that you brought up, 'reproductive' was the wrong word to use. I'll change that to contact with the same nude parts that are counted for points (boobs, butts, and the frontal nudity). I suppose that now includes spanking as a sexual act. ?

Will also clarify in the rulebook that it's just one person's sexy bits that need to be contacted to count. So giving a handie or oral sex will count for both people, it doesn't need to be fully reciprocal. -nyan

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2017 Jul 31

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

30:30 (+40) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei throws off the bed sheets to reveal herself in the morning after a night with Jaime. (Act of Intercourse)

My math on this is 40 because of the 2x special multiplier. Thoughts? -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 1 nyan and colin.heinke like this
Should be 40, and Jaime's should be 20. -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 1 nyan, paolarodelas, taylorreneegoodrich like this
Yep, forgot to apply the multiplier, thanks guys! Damn, this ratchets their scores up really high, though to be fair this is the first nude sex scene I can recall from Cersei in a long while (ever?) -nyan

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2017 Aug 1 taylorreneegoodrich likes this

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

61:12 (+10) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow's ignites his latent Targaryen instincts to incest with his aunt Daenerys aboard her ship as they sail for White Harbor. (Act of Intercourse)

Deaths

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf

60:16 (+5) Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger):

Littlefinger has his throat slit by Arya Stark, after his betrayals and treason are exposed by Sansa Stark in the court of Winterfell to the Northern and Vale lords.

Sansa: "Thank you for all your many lessons, Lord Baelish. I will never forget them." (Death)

Is anyone else upset with how LF went out? Until this season LF had the most unpredictable plans and was always smart enough to have someone else do the dirty work for him. This season his scheme was in your face and obvious. He always played 4 dimensional chess and this season it was 1 dimensional. Also say what you want about him but LF wouldnt beg for his life. He was willing to fight and die against Brandon Stark and also advised to risk everything because life is fleeting. I never really cared about how the show differs from the book as long as the characters stay the same. I really feel like this was a misrepresentation of LF. -hindsight44

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2017 Aug 29 jake.kmiech, nyan, hkeseyan like this
I feel like they dragged his death on for so long - he was basically kept as a laying duck all season while we knew his demise was coming. He did practically nothing with the extra time he was given to live (all the failed whispering in Sansa's ear was so bad, I'd rather have LF killed off earlier than see him like that). Similar situation with Varys except they haven't built an entire plotline in a major location around his demise -hkeseyan

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2017 Aug 29 hindsight44, jake.kmiech, nyan like this
Definitely, Littlefinger was always the most dangerous man in Westeros, I imagined his demise would see him get all the way to the pinnacle of power, and only then to get backstabbed by Sansa.

I'd have a hard time writing a good S7 storyline for Littlefinger though. I think they put themselves into a corner by showing Sansa was through with him and saw everything. In my fantasy storyline, Sansa is the only Stark who sees a reedeming quality in Baelish, and goes along with his schemes against the better advice of all her family and followers. And then at the pinnacle do we find out that Sansa was the one playing an even longer game, and perhaps she can actually be as selfishly power-thirsty as Arya accuses her. It'd be awesome if we had one Stark who was questionably a villain, and not all goody-goodies. -nyan

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2017 Aug 29 jake.kmiech and hindsight44 like this
Isn't Arya the villain Stark? I know that the series tries to make her somewhat sympathetic every now and then, that she is still the little Arya girl, but she actually went full blown egomaniac, sociopath and serial killer since she left King's Landing - which is even comprehensible considering her experiences and possible traumas. -Lem Lemoncake

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2017 Aug 30

Special

Episode 1: Dragonstone

20:17 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei runs for the pitcher and pours a glass as Jaime confronts her about Tommen's death. (Special)

23:59 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Euron Greyjoy: "Ever since I was a little boy, I wanted to grow up and marry the most beautiful woman in the world, so here I am with a thousand ships and two good hands." (looks at Jaime) (Special)

submitted by adamjfallon (approved!)

10 more comments - see full thread

I need to implement the Facebook LOVE/HAHA reactions just for Alice's commentary on here. For the record there are no other admins this season, but lots of passionate players who like to debate, and that's one of the things I enjoy most about the site. Don't ever feel the need to engage into every thread though, especially if you feel like you are starting to repeat yourself, the site is all for fun and I'll definitely read through every comment and point made. -nyan

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2017 Jul 18
Yeah, I get super into the debate here but at the end of the day, I'm here for the fun and appreciation of GOT. That said, I am also always right ? -alicehanners

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2017 Jul 19
(Except when I'm wrong) -alicehanners

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2017 Jul 19

Episode 2: Stormborn

8:35 (+3) Missandei:

Missandei gives a lesson on Valyrian gendered pronouns in ancient prophecies: "Your Grace, forgive me, but your translation is not quite accurate. That noun has no gender in High Valyrian, so proper translation for that prophecy would be 'the prince or princess who was promised will bring the dawn'. (Special)

10:48 (+3) Jon Snow:

Sansa reading Tyrion's letter to Jon Snow: "All dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes." (Special)

Sure Tyrion alludes to Jon Snow being a bastard by calling himself a bastard, but he doesn't outright call Jon Snow a bastard. Does Jon get points every time he's called by his last name "Snow" which alludes to the fact that hes a bastard? -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24
He gets points for the word bastard only. The words are on paper but Sansa says them out loud anyway. -nyan

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2017 Jul 24
fair enough -ssantise

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2017 Jul 24

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice

3:56 (+3) Jon Snow:

Tyrion Lannister greets Jon on his arrival at Dragonstone: "The Bastard of Winterfell." (Special)

16:54 (+3) Jon Snow:

Davos Seaworth: "He was named King in the North. Not because of his birthright. He has no birthright. He's a damn bastard." (Special)

31:03 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours out a glass of wine for her Braavosi visitor, Tycho Nestoris of the Iron Bank. (Special)

Episode 4: The Spoils of War

6:35 (+3) Cersei Lannister:

Cersei pours herself a glass while discussing the delivery of Tyrell gold to Tycho Nestoris of the Iron Bank. (Special)

32:38 (+3) Jon Snow:

Missandei: "Forgive me, but may I ask a question? ... Your name is Jon Snow, but your father's name is Ned Stark?"
Jon Snow: "I'm a bastard. My mother and father weren't married." (Special)

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall

54:59 (+3) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow drops Longclaw on the frozen ice sheet after he is tackled under water by the wights during the dragon evacuation. (Special)

The Feels

Episode 5: Eastwatch

15:08 (+0) Jon Snow:

Jon Snow, secret Targaryen, shares a moment and boops le snoot of the fierce and beautiful - gorgeous!, actually - Drogon. (Warm Fuzzy Moment)

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