Submitted Events for GoT: Season 7
Kills
0:00
(+10)
Syrio Forel:
Just a placeholder submission at the top - I'll be trekking in the Canadian Rockies backcountry and offline until early next week, so wanted to drop a "away from office" note that I'm not around to reply in discussions or answer questions. I approved/rejected the E2 submissions that seemed to have good consensus, but there are a few more that are still being debated or just have been good scoring conversations. Feel free to participate or continue submitting and I'll get to all of them before E3 scoring.
E3 scoring will still be on track for the usual time on Monday nights. Cheers everyone! -nyan (Kill of Named Character)
E3 scoring will still be on track for the usual time on Monday nights. Cheers everyone! -nyan (Kill of Named Character)
submitted by nyan (rejected: back!)
hkeseyan and Woodez like this
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron needs a special ability.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: added new specials from the suggestions. thanks everyone!)
lomotan2, emilien.raggi, hkeseyan, theripleymanor, 2 others like this
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I don't know how many specials we want to add to Euron, but the use of superlatives seems like the superior special as far as earning points is concerned. So if we wanted to give Euron a special which has a higher chance to be used thats the one to pick.
While storms and storm references while possible more fitting the character, it does seem like this will be less likely to earn points. as he has only be self referenced as the storm a few times and has only been in a storm twice.
Lastly, the maniacal laugh he has only done once, so this special while also a cool concept would earn very few points and be almost useless.
To give Euron the most beneficial special i think we should make it "points whenever he uses a superlative." -cmwalker521
kremershell likes this -
More ideas:
-his ship Silence is ominously shown (I think this should be at least 1 of the specials included)
-mocks Jaime
-makes a vulgar sexual comment -hkeseyan
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Let's go with these:
1. He or his Ironborn are referenced as the "greatest" (including self-references)
2. Crude sexual remarks (could use some more precise wording, but his "big cock" line about Daenerys in S6, or his talk with Jaime in S7E3).
I think they get at the main feature of Euron, which is being a very egotistical and boastful character in terms of his fighting prowess and sexuality. And they also applied to S6 Euron, so it feels like they will stick around as part of his character. The storm appearances I think would have been good, but these two specials seem to be coming up once or twice for every dialogue-driven appearance so I think that's a decent buff.
The Silence and tongue things are cool ones from the book... but outside of a quick opening reference from Balon in S6, I'm not sure they have come up in the show since. The laugh I think could count, but I honestly have a hard time picking out his maniacal laugh as a discrete event (vs just happening in the background), and I think the 2 above are already giving Euron a steady stream of points. -nyan
jake.kmiech, hkeseyan, emilien.raggi like this
Conor McGregor is the pirate who punches a man to death at the beginning of the fight.
submitted by nicholas.kim (rejected: not McGregor)
julian.aronowitz likes this
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Mcgregor vehemently denies any association with GOT. If he was in the show they would make it clear as day it was him. -hindsight44
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We can't assume that's him doing the punching - that man has much shorter hair, and Conor's signature beard is hidden. Conor has been in the public eye posting pictures of himself online for months, and never has his hair been that short. The man also looks a bit older I would say. Also, no news source has reported or assumed that this man is Conor. -hkeseyan
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Doesn't look anything like Conor McGregor, sorry. Hopefully in a future episode. -Ser Vincent
0:00
(+5)
Cersei Lannister:
Cersei plants a kiss on Tyene Sand, poisoning her with the Long Farewell - the same poison used by Ellaria Sand to kill Myrcella Baratheon.
(Major Injury of Named Character)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
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Who seems satisfied??? This is baffling to me. You're awarding death points for someone who may not be dead. What happens if Tyene is still alive next episode and does something? No death points without confirmed death. -alicehanners
righteous likes this -
@alicehanners there are no death points yet. these are major injury points for the poison which will be upgraded to 10 total for kill points if the poison kills her (to prevent a 5+10 double dip for Cersei) and then 5 to Tyene when she dies -hkeseyan
nyan likes this -
Doesn't make sense to give death points for this, but it's certainly major injury. -righteous
After the Tyrell forces are defeated and Highgarden is taken by the Lannisters, Olenna accepts the mercy offering of poisoned wine offered by Jaime.
Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)
Olenna: "Will there be pain?"
Jaime: "No, I made sure of that."
Olenna: "That's good." (Major Injury of Named Character)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
hkeseyan likes this
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Yea, Jaime definitely deserves something here. He poured the wine, put the poison in, and then gave her the poisoned wine. Maybe Olenna can get the major injury points but Jaime needs the kill.
-kevinpetsky
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If we were on the rules used to score S6, everyone here would be right on the money - we used to have an allowance that characters would get Kills if they are ordering an execution or other unskilled act to be carried out, or coercing someone into death. And under that scoring Jaime is definitely deserving, he's cornered Olenna and gave her no choice but this act.
While this worked great in the past for other executions in the past, we ran into a lot of debates last season with Lem's bandits, and then the huge Cersei-Qyburn-wildfire discussion, mainly around what it means to be an "unskilled" order. The ultimate outcome of those discussions, and a major scoring change for S7, is that we would only count the direct kills, embracing the concept that "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." So Joffrey ends up not getting credit for pussying out and ordering Illyn Payne to execute Ned. Theon gets credit he wouldn't have otherwise gotten for taking the reigns from Dagmer and executing Rodrik himself. Characters like Jaime lose out in situations like this, where it feels like he deserves some partial credit at least, but overall it seems a more satisfying score and rewards the characters that get their hands dirty. Jaime would've gotten the points if he force-fed Olenna, or tricked Olenna into drinking the poisoned wine, but he chose a route that kept his hands clean (even if it was from an respectful, merciful rationale).
If you want to see the original discussion, it's in this S6 event (it's also where the idea for "political rivals eliminated" came about): http://fantasora.com/event/3056
That said, I think I would buy an argument that Olenna was briefly Jaime's prisoner here, which is what gives him the power to force her to drink the poison. And that does fit better it seems, Olenna's death is due to Jaime's political power position at the time, not his ability in violence/killing. -nyan
kevinpetsky likes this -
That seems fair
-kevinpetsky
0:00
(+0)
Brienne of Tarth:
Brienne managed to get a good kick on Arya, which I believe should count as minor injury (hope I'm submitting this correctly)
submitted by Laxis (rejected)
angelsboy96 likes this
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I think as long as it only counts as around a point there is no reason for it not to be counted -angelsboy96
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It was a solid kick but Arya seems mostly unfazed by it and gets right back up. Contrast to Pod who is laid out on the floor and wheezing in the scene with Tormund. There's not a solid criteria for the minor injuries, but I think it should be something like a visible sign of injury - scratch, bruise, bleeding, or they should be "knocked out" perhaps. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Syrio Forel:
Resolution on the E4 scoring submissions will be delayed a bit while processing E5. Expect an update in the middle of the week.
submitted by nyan (rejected)
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Sticky note on this for E4 - I got sidetracked all last week from being in some parks and out of data coverage and didn't manage to resolve all of the scoring submissions (my bad, but also what's the deal with American Mountain West cities having less service than campgrounds in the Canadian Rockies?).
Rest assured, I'll still be going through all of them and making adjustments, and also working on building something to better balance the points on Direct Season-long scoring leagues for the E4 mega-event. Currently I'm prioritizing the E5 scoring, but you can expect an update on E4 by the middle of this week (~Thursday).
If you want to add any input to the long thread about the E4 mega-event scoring you can find it here: http://fantasora.com/event/3448 -nyan
I don't really know what Qhono looks like, but if you do: Was he in the battle and did he score some? :D
submitted by Lem Lemoncake (rejected: Not Qhono)
megharr36 likes this
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According to the wiki: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Qhono
"Qhono is part of the guards that protect Tyrion Lannister as he watches on the Battle of Tumbleton. He points out to the Lord Hand that his people do not fight well against the Dothraki."
So dammit, the only named Dothraki warrior left gets the most boring job possible! I was really hoping that either the dual-wielding Dothraki or the one who slices off the leg of Bronn's horse would be named. -nyan
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He was the dude behind Tyrion who said his people can't fight -hkeseyan
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Ah ok, I thought he might be the one getting at least one line to say :D And it may be considered a funny one, I might suggest :o -Lem Lemoncake
megharr36 likes this -
Do it! I need some points! -megharr36
48:16
(+2)
Daenerys Targaryen:
After being forced to the ground by a bolt from the Scorpio, Drogon destroys the ballista weapon with one swipe of his tail.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
jgiuliano likes this
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Not sure if we'll add anything here, would we want to consider any points for killing/destroy an important weapon/object, in addition to living things?
If we're counting horse kills it would seem that destroying the Scorpion is also worthy. Perhaps this is better under the political category (since that's where the New Weapon subcategory is awarded). -nyan
jake.kmiech and jgiuliano like this -
What is dead may never die. -hkeseyan
nyan and jedjackoway like this -
Too much, its not a living thing X) -emilien.raggi
alicehanners likes this -
political category is a good idea! -jgiuliano
Will wights count as kills? of unnamed characters?
submitted by talindsey (rejected)
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Yep, all the wights will count as kills. The actual White Walkers, if there are any, will likely count as Named Kills under the "boss fight" criteria that was established after Hardhome. -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this -
Also, does reanimation apply to people only? e.g. direwolves, etc.? -talindsey
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The main precedent is Hardhome, during which the Night King got New Follower points when he reanimated the named characters like Karsi, and got a New Army point as a whole for the collective group of wights he reanimatd. -nyan
Minor injury - While Bran is warging through a murder of crows the Night King assaults Bran through the Crows, breaking the link and leaving Bran shaken and breathless.
submitted by easson27 (rejected)
as38 likes this
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Similar to the rejection for Arya, I think we'll require that "minor" injuries show some visible sign of injury - scratches, bleeding, bruising, or the character being knocked out. Breathing hard is not quite there. -nyan
0:00
(+10)
White Walker (Night King):
Since the Night King makes the entire environment cold wherever he goes, and Thoros dies overnight from the cold exposure... could it be argued that the Night King gets kill credit for Thoros?
(Kill of Named Character)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
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I think it would have to be proven that he wouldnt have died over night from just the basic level of cold of being in the North. He was pretty ripped up, if you just left him there over night beyond the wall but far away from the NK he probably would have died anyway. -hindsight44
jake.kmiech, nyan, Laxis like this
7 of the wights in the scouting party disintegrate after Jon kills the White Walker leading them.
(Kill of Unnamed Character)
(Kill of Unnamed Character)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
kimberly.ramia, brandonthebigB, Nick like this
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It feels incredibly unfair to not count the deaths as kills. Those 7 Wights died as a result of a combat situation, the kills need to be attributed. The surrender analogy does not work, in a normal situation the surrendering soldiers would be taken captive because they are alive and still functioning. In this scenario the wights couldn't be captured because they were destroyed due to Jon's actions, the wight they DID capture can more accurately be seen as a surrender. If anything, this resembles an execution of prisoners, where Jon passed the judgement and swung the sword.
Also I agree that it is unfair to remove the points after a week, where no new arguments were brought up to strengthen the case for removal. -brandonthebigB
hindsight44 likes this -
When soldiers surrender you have gained an asset or at the very least levrage. There is a specific advantage to gaining surrendered soldiers that is not at play here. They were once functional wights that would kill any living thing and now theyre nothing. The rules state that kills are counted regardless of reason. Jon Snows actions directly led those 7 wights dying........again -hindsight44
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Yeah the delay in scoring update is my bad, I've ended up on another spotty-internet week during travel for this one and wasn't able to do these earlier. The summer run for S7 has really caused some conflicts with travel, I'll have to figure out the S8 schedule much better.
I think you guys are right from a scorekeeping purity standpoint. The wights went from soldiers to being dead because of this action, to call it a surrender can work as a stretch but yes, it is a stretch we'd be making to find a way to discount the points. I started thinking about parallel examples, with a very basic kill switch action that causes large numbers of deaths. You might say Bronn igniting the Blackwater Bay wildfire, or a hypothetical Qyburn's little bird igniting the wildfire underneath the Sept of Baelor, and I think most players would readily accept those as valid scores.
Giving it some further thought, I did have that same first impression of "cheapness" as most of the others who initially commented. I think that comes from having such a directly comparable set of kills in the exact same scene - the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, et. al. are busy hacking away at the wights for their measly 1-2 kills each, and then Jon swoops in with an easy 7-kill swing. But it can be fine that some kills are cheaper than others, and while a jackpot scenario may exist in the future with whoever takes down the Night King, it's a much more equitable free-for-all for any character to achieve, unlike say Daenerys' dragon roastings.
Perhaps with better per-league tools, we can again have multiple rulesets for S8 that could include or exclude the wight-follower kills.
Anyhow for this one, I'll go back to the original decision which is to count the 7 as kills. -nyan
brandonthebigB, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, emilien.raggi like this
0:00
(+0)
Tormund Giantsbane:
Just throwing this out there early but I read a few articles online about how Beric and Tormund didnt die in the last scene.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
hkeseyan likes this
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In a normal episode this wouldn't count (we'd wait for some concrete confirmation in next episode). Since it's a season finale, I would make a judgment call of some sort, and right now that would be on the non-death side. The ice dragon does seem to destroy the entire section where Eastwatch was located, with Tormund and Beric trying to run down from the top floor, but I don't believe these characters (Tormund especially) would meet an early demise with such little fanfare and closure to their stories.
Leaving this up for further discussion, if anyone wants to make a case for Tormund/Beric being killed? -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this -
http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/episodes/7/67-67-episode/synopsis.html
This is the official synopsis of episode 7 by HBO, the last paragraph states Tormund and his wildlings ran to safety. Beric was also clearly running alongside Tormund the whole time. I dont think they ever tried running down the wall they were running west along the top of the wall.
I think this is also important for other extras who were also running around, it gives them a plausible and believable route of surviving the attack on the wall. Obviously people died and we saw that on screen, but i dont think every person involved in that scene should be automatically counted as dead because there is now a concrete way to survive this ordeal. -hindsight44
jake.kmiech, nyan, hkeseyan, emilien.raggi like this -
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense for how the evacuation played out. I counted just the people falling off the Wall as kills for the Night King: http://fantasora.com/event/3758 -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Tyene Sand:
any season finale resolution on Tyene? At this point if she hasnt been refrenced i think its safe to say shes dead. If there are grander plans of her death or some deus ex machina happened we surely would have known by now.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
jtrernst likes this
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We'll leave it, and maybe she'll get a S8 mention or visit, or forever be a lost character like Syrio. -nyan
Political Wins
0:00
(+0)
Archmaester Ebrose:
Gaining Samwell Tarly as a follower in the Citadel
submitted by as38 (rejected: seems to be a teacher (perhaps primary one), but Samwell may not follow him officially (and definitely does not in practice).)
Lem Lemoncake, alicehanners, Ser Vincent like this
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There is a case for these points if Archmaester Marwyn is seen as representative for the Hightower Citadel and the Order of Maesters which Samwell has subjected himself to.
At the end of last season the receptionist stated that Samwell has to talk with the Archmaester about his entry into training. As Samwell is working for the Order at the beginning of this season, it is implied that the meeting with the Archmaester went well and that Samwell was accepted as a novice -Ser Vincent
as38 likes this -
Usually we don't count anything that has happened before the character was introduced, else you have a new character like Stannis showing up and instantly gaining lots of points from existing followers. This is a little grey area since we know Sam has a state change (also a promotion?), but Marwyn we've only seen this season. -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this -
Id think we would need more than implied for him to become a follower. Also Sam left that conversation and did exactly what Marwyn told him he couldnt do (get books from restricted section). -hindsight44
jake.kmiech likes this -
I would usually agree with your point nyan, however this is clearly part of sams story arc and archmaester is just a side character, it just so happens that sam is now under the wing and learning from the archmeaster in order to become a maester and help jon as he commanded, I dont think it should matter that it is a new character because it is a new setting for samwell in his journey -as38
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Depends on what introduced means, the archmaester was mentioned last season before Samwell became part of the Order, and this season he was "on-screen" introduced basically at the same time/scene when Samwells state change is shown. In your example with Stannis, if other characters had been shown independently in season 1 and suddenly part of Stannis crew in season 2 when he is introduced on-screen, I do feel they should be counted as becoming follower (even when the "following" happens off-screen inbetween seasons and before Stannis is even introduced on-screen).
I see the problem more with Sam following the Order but not Marwyn as a person per se, but if Marwyn is the only head of the Order (which is not the case in the books but seemingly in the show) then the points may be valid -Ser Vincent
nyan and as38 like this -
The ruling council of Maesters does appear to be a thing in the show, so I'm not sure we definitively say that Marwyn is the one and only Archmaester that Sam is learning under. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Conclave
However as a side point, definitely Sam seems to have been officially admitted into the the grad school life at the Citadel, which is a promotion from last season. I'll add that. -nyan
Ser Vincent likes this
0:00
(+0)
Alys Karstark:
Jon snow promotes Alys to be head of house Karstark
submitted by nguyen.luan.t (rejected: debate was about stripping of the title, so she never lost it)
Lem Lemoncake likes this
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I believe she was already head of her house. He just didn't strip her of her castle. Does she get points for swearing fealty? -alicehanners
8:18
(+3)
Bran Stark:
Bran Stark uses his knowledge about the battle at Hardhome to convince Eddison Tollet to grant him and Meera Reed passage into Castle Black.
(Convincing Argument)
submitted by Ser Vincent (approved!)
lomotan2 and ericw like this
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Knowing about the events at Hardhome could also be counted extra as "discovery of secret" (maybe he was even looking at Hardhome and Edison Tollet during his warg shortly before the Castle Black gates open), but regardless points should be awarded for successfully persuading Eddison Tollet to let him and Meera into Castle Black. -Ser Vincent
hkeseyan likes this
8:37
(+3)
Eddison Tollett:
Edd learns that Bran Stark is still alive, after he and Meera Reed show up to the gates of Castle Black.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
tbaum9842, alicehanners, Lem Lemoncake, hindsight44, 7 others like this
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I don't know, Stannis just said in passing "I know what dragonglass is, we have it in Dragonstone", but he didn't say how much or where to get it. Plus I think it's easy to forget things that are said in passing like that. Especially since he had that whole traumatic incident with Gilly later on. The maesters' book actually spelled out exactly where it is in the mine, and how much and gave a ton of info on how it can be used. (maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that there are no mistakes in the show) -tommyjames81
nyan likes this -
But if he says something in passing is it really a secret? -hindsight44
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Will officially add the above criteria (first person to know outside of the secret-holder, and has power to distribute or maintain the secret) to the official scoring, and grant secret points to Edd for this. -nyan
10:44
(+3)
Tormund Giantsbane:
Tormund receives a new post to man the Wildlings at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.
Jon Snow: "The closest castle to Hardhome is Eastwatch-by-the-Sea."
Tormund: "Then that's where I'll go." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)
Jon Snow: "The closest castle to Hardhome is Eastwatch-by-the-Sea."
Tormund: "Then that's where I'll go." (Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake, dneanover, alicehanners, patrick.f.reeves, 3 others like this
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A little iffy on this one - Jon simply says that the Wall hasn't been properly manned and asks the Wildlings to go there, but this doesn't officially give Tormund command of the castle. The last reference we have to Eastwatch is from S1, when Jeor mentions that a Cotter Pyke commands the castle and has fought off wights there. This may get rejected until Tormund actually arrives at Eastwatch and has a scene where he more explicitly takes command (whether officially or de facto). -nyan
goodjujumagic and righteous like this -
Yeah, though this is one of my team, it seems tenuous at best. we should see what happens when he gets there. -alicehanners
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I was about to suggest this one as well. As said, Tormund could just be there as reinforcements for Cotter Pyke or whomever is in command. Would Tormund get points if he doesn't necessairly command the castle but is leading it's defences? -N1ce And Squeezy
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Depending on how a battle shakes out, Tormund could get points for leading the army of Wildlings there. Rejecting this, we'll see what happens once Tormund actually arrives. -nyan
22:40
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Over Jaime's protests, Cersei meets with Euron Greyjoy to hear his alliance proposal, although it ultimately ends in Euron leaving empty-handed with a promise to return with a gift.
(Executive Decision)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
colin.oloughlin likes this
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Yeah to me, overruling Jaime is the most concrete thing that's been done so far. It's a little soft that simply meeting with Euron is a "major decision", but Jaime argues pretty hard against doing that and as Queen, and exerts her power by just doing it anyway. -nyan
jedjackoway likes this -
Original submission from @hindsight44: "hey man i feel like Cersei kinda got boned on the political front. the way i see it she got 3 seperate political events. +3 for overuling jaime with an executive order on the iron born, he protested euron completley but cersei still brokered a deal with him.which leads to my second event when she brokered a deal with euron which should be+3. finally euron left episode agreeing to to the bidding or cersei which makes him a followet of cersei which should be another +3." -nyan
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You don't always have to outright ask to get what you want. To make someone think it is their idea to do what u want is perfect. It was a deal. -j.stainless11
hindsight44 likes this
While looking into Thoros' flames, Sandor Clegane discovers the location of the planned White Walker invasion: Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.
"Ice. A wall of ice. The Wall. ... It's where the Wall meets the sea. There's a castle there. There's a mountain. Looks like an arrowhead. The dead are marching past. Thousands of them." (Secret Discovery)
"Ice. A wall of ice. The Wall. ... It's where the Wall meets the sea. There's a castle there. There's a mountain. Looks like an arrowhead. The dead are marching past. Thousands of them." (Secret Discovery)
submitted by jake.kmiech (approved!)
stevenorum, lomotan2, tdougherty93, jgiuliano, 3 others like this
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is this really a secret discovery? i remember we counted bran's discoveries while time travelling but those were actually displayed to us, the audience. this didn't happen here and it is not confirmed if this is truly what's going to happen. -Lem Lemoncake
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Would characters present receive the "Secret Discovery" and/or Thoros have had the same Secret Discovery? -EvanWolfe
jake.kmiech likes this -
@Lem Lemoncake it does flirt the line, especially as we've seen with Melisandre, a lot of her supposedly prophetic visions of Stannis as Azor Ahai turned out to be false. There is also a retroactive perspective, what if say a character gets spy reports from someone who was a double-agent, and it's actually a betryal in the end? My gut is to let these points exist, there will be plot twists so no secret is 100% infallible. But this is much more of a secret than Melisandre's visions, because it includes very specific, actionable information rather than "Stannis I saw that you were King and fighting against the WW someday".
@EvanWolfe, good point about Thoros/Beric as well... it seems like they've been generally aware of this, but in any case that'd be new information since the last time we saw them. I'll add secret points for them both. -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this
0:00
(+0)
Arya Stark:
Nymeria changes Arya's mind to go back to Kings Landing instead of going back home. At least this is what I'm pretty sure happened. I know it's indirect since Nymeria can't speak, but wouldn't this be considered an action by Nymeria in that it sways the direction of story?
submitted by nathan (rejected: no confirmation yet)
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We can clearly see after the scene with hot pie, that arya is going in the opposite direction of the soldiers heading to kings landing, and this after a long hesitation. This is the best indication telling us she is heading north. However if you still consider that we are not sure that it's the road to winterfell, it should be scored later, if not it is clearly hot pie and not nymeria who changed her mind -emilien.raggi
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I'm aware that she's currently headed to Winterfell. That's why she asked Nymeria to go with her when they reunited for that brief moment. But after Nymeria rejected her offer by leaving, I think Arya is going to change her mind and head back to King's Landing. I'm only assuming this because she said "It's not you." Meaning it wouldn't be like either of them to go back home when they're needed for something greater. Hot Pie was the one that told Arya about her Jon being back in Winterfell which made her change her mind about going to home instead of continuing her journey to King's Landing. However if Nymeria's reaction to going home does in fact change Arya's mind again, then it's Nymeria that puts Arya back in the right direction. -nathan
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@nathan good point to raise. As @jedjackoway and others mentioned, while there are hints, there's no confirmation yet on what Arya decided to do, and we'll wait for a more explicit confirmation of what happens.
When it does however, and if it's to turn back from Winterfell, I think you've made an excellent case that Arya was convinced by Nymeria (and it's fine that it's an unspoken, especially as all the Starks have a kind of warg backchannel to communicate). We'll see what happens next episode. -nyan
hkeseyan and nathan like this
0:00
(+3)
Arya Stark:
Arya encounters Nymeria in the forest, where she leads her own pack of wolves.
(Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)
submitted by ssantise (approved!)
nathan, nyan, hindsight44, jedjackoway, 5 others like this
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Except the wolves left her... -craigdietz20
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Technically, it's Nymeria's army of wolves, not Arya, as evidenced by Nymeria not choosing to go with her. -WampaLord
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No one is saying that the wolves are Arya's. The wolves are Nymeria's army. Due to Arya's special she gets points whenever Nymeria gets points, regardless where Nymeria is or what she's doing. -ssantise
alicehanners and nyan like this
0:00
(+0)
Jaime Lannister:
Convincing Randyll Tarly to join their side.
We know from the trailers that the Tarlys do fight on their side. And it's Jamie's talk with him that pulls him over.
We know from the trailers that the Tarlys do fight on their side. And it's Jamie's talk with him that pulls him over.
submitted by jimmy.tague (rejected: will count upon confirmation of Tarly fighting for the Lannisters)
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I don't know why that doubleposted. -jimmy.tague
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The point is there is no evidence right now. We are all pretty sure that the Tarlys will ally with the Lannisters, but this is Game of Thrones, you never know - the worst-case scenario is that the truth will be revealed very shortly this season. Going off of the rulebook, a last-episode rule that applies to kills but can liekly be applied to this
"Last-Episode exception: If the ambiguous kill/death happens in the last episode of the season, the scorekeeper makes a judgment call. The threshold should be that the ambiguous death is "highly likely".
Rationale: The worst-case for previous episodes deaths is that they are just recorded in the subsequent episode when confirmation is given, but no such resolution is possible for finale cliffhangers. This exception is introduced to resolve that for cases where the death is extremely likely to have occured.
Precedents: Brienne's kill of Stannis Baratheon in S5E10"
If this was the last episode of the season, the assumptions would be more justified. I think we'll find out as soon as the next episode what the Tarlys ended up deciding. -hkeseyan
jimmy.tague, jake.kmiech, hindsight44, jedjackoway, 2 others like this -
I see I see thanks for the comparison. -jimmy.tague
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Daenerys gains an ally with Melisandre coming to Dragonstone.
submitted by shannonferretti (rejected)
alicehanners, tbaum9842, jgiuliano, emilien.raggi, 3 others like this
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But will sitting on her council meeting even count? Oberyn was by no means a follower of Tywin yet he sat on the small council. -hindsight44
nyan likes this -
I suppose you can be a follower without having undying loyalty. Oberyn getting a seat on the Small Council was a part of bringing Dorne back into the Kingdom, and Oberyn still "served" his advice to Tywin/Joffrey, though he was not loyal. Being an employee counts as a follower, basically. -nyan
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Can you follow more than one person?I hear what youre saying but Mels ultimate loyalty will always be to Rhollor and by her becoming followers of others ita really just her obeying her God -hindsight44
nyan likes this
0:00
(+3)
Davos Seaworth:
Davos suggests that Daenerys's dragons will be a powerful asset against the fight against the wights, and suggests allying with her, despite Sansa's protests. Ultimately, Jon decides to personally travel to Dragonstone to meet with Daenerys, citing Davos' arguments in his appeal to the Northern Lords.
"What breathes fire?" ... "But if the army of the dead makes it past the wall, do we have enough men to fight them?"
(Convincing Argument)
"What breathes fire?" ... "But if the army of the dead makes it past the wall, do we have enough men to fight them?"
(Convincing Argument)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
pacelli929 and jimmy.tague like this
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Sure, I think this qualifies as a team effort between Samwell and Davos, especially considering that Jon cites Davos' reasoning publicly, as you mention. -nyan
hkeseyan likes this
0:00
(+0)
Theon Greyjoy:
Theon betrayed Yara when he jumped off the ship.
submitted by kevinpetsky (rejected: Theon had some rational self-interest in running, not quite a betrayal)
hindsight44, nathan, ssantise, bookworm13457, 3 others like this
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Hmm, this is one of those "would you lose your foot to save a kid on a train track" things isn't it? Theon didn't do anything negative to Yara, and realistically he's in a losing situation and not going to beat Euron 1on1. It's definitely a wuss move for Theon, but it feels like a prudent move for any other character. -nyan
hkeseyan and Ser Vincent like this -
I think it counts as a betrayal, especially considering Yara was JUST telling Ellaria that Theon is her protector and advisor. This is a huge slap in her face, especially since this isn't the first time he's done this to her. -paolarodelas
alicehanners likes this -
Even if he could beat Euron 1on1, Euron has an axe to Yara's neck -hkeseyan
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A betrayal is defined as "an act against the victim's interest, when the victim fully trusted the character to act in theirs." I think its pretty obvious Yara trusted Theon to try and save her and he did the exact opposite -kevinpetsky
kimbo likes this -
Euron would have killed Yara if Theon had attacked. I believe Theon was aware of that. Even though the scene was acted as if Theon got scared and abandoned her, I do believe he acted in her best interest by escaping and trying to save her another day. -Ser Vincent
I would like to contest both Tyrion and Varys BROKERED A DEAL. As we established last week, deals are not brokered till terms are set or some agreeement is met. In S6 all we know is Varys meets with tyrells/martells, his only line is 'fire and blood'. In episode 2 Dany thanks Varys for bringing her these allies.
They never actually agree to anything and become Danys followers until Tyrion explains the battleplan.
Id say Tyrion and Varys tag teamed this one but if anyone deserves points its Varys because Tyrion needed some convincing from Varys when originally left for Merren in s6.'We need allies in Westeroes' conversation at the dock.
They never actually agree to anything and become Danys followers until Tyrion explains the battleplan.
Id say Tyrion and Varys tag teamed this one but if anyone deserves points its Varys because Tyrion needed some convincing from Varys when originally left for Merren in s6.'We need allies in Westeroes' conversation at the dock.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
alicehanners, kevinpetsky, tommyjames81, ssantise, 2 others like this
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Cersei refused his first offer that doesnt mean the negotiations didnt bear any fruit.
What in question is was there ' some evidence' that a deal has been made because that justified Varys getting points.
Requiring 'some evidence' now means you dont need a full agreement all you need really is a piece of information that pushes you in that direction. Euron saying 'i will go bring you a gift to gain yout trust.' is technically 'some evidence' a deal was made.
Once again im not arguing for either side im jjst trying to point out what i believe a contradiction in the rule book. Personally i dont think 'some evidence' is enough to confirn a deal especially when two episodss later the parties in question officaly give their support. -hindsight44
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I see it sort of as tiers. If there's explicit evidence, we'll always go with that. But if not, we'll take circumstantial evidence and run with it (unless there's contradictory circumstantial evidence).
For Varys we got the circumstantial fleet sailing with Daenerys. And nothing has come along to disprove their alliance, so the points worked.
For Cersei we got the meeting that explicitly showed that nothing was agreed, and Euron vowed to come back with a better offer (which is not a deal, but perhaps a continuation of the negotiation). Because we got that explicit evidence against, it wasn't counted, even if there would be later evidence that would otherwise be circumstantial. -nyan
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Closing this thread out - I think everyone has explained their points pretty well, and hopefully the explanation in the last comment about direct vs. circumstantial evidence gives a clear idea of which ones take precedence, so at least everyone can know how it will be scored even if it can't leave everyone happy. With the more formal alliance in E3, I think everyone will get the points they expected and that wraps this up. -nyan
Hot Pie learns that Arya Stark is back in Westeros after recognizing her at the inn.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by EvanWolfe (approved!)
kimbo, Lem Lemoncake, alexanderjoelrose like this
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron's axe is seen for the first time. The weapon is clearly very unique and prominent, possibly the most prominent and identifiable weapons ever seen.
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: not a special enough weapon (needs to be Valyrian steel or have a name or something))
emilien.raggi and lomotan2 like this
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And? Unless he got it in this episode, there are no points to be awarded. -alicehanners
nyan likes this -
The axe is seen for the first time in this episode. Just like his fleet was seen for the first time last episode, and the giants were seen in the Night King's army last episode, and any other case of something being shown/explained for the first time in an episode receiving points for that revealing episode (Harald Karstark dying in S06E09 but getting points S07E01 because of Jon mentioning it, etc) -hkeseyan
theripleymanor and lomotan2 like this -
Key difference is that we saw Euron give the order to build a new fleet in S6, so we know that the fleet is newly acquired but not for the axe.
I'm also not convinced that the axe is that significant. It's a cool design, but I don't think anyone's given it a name. -nyan
0:00
(+6)
Euron Greyjoy:
Yara and Theon Greyjoy, and their competing claims to lead the Ironborn, are eliminated as Euron captures Yara and forces Theon to flee after successfully ambushing their fleet.
(Rivals Eliminated)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
lomotan2, theripleymanor, nyan like this
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I think he was already named king of the Ironborn, he just took prisonners (already scored), and political win is already scored too for the battle -emilien.raggi
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True that he was named the king of the Ironborn, but Yara and Theon were still his political rivals, they usurped him for power over a portion of the population of Ironborn. He eliminated those political rivals which were vying for power over a population which should rightfully be under his control. -hkeseyan
lomotan2 likes this -
Good catch! I would say there was some slight question to whether Yara/Theon's Ironborn would actually defect to Euron, but definitely as mutineers they put some doubt into the legitimacy of Euron's command, and he's effectively quashed it. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Randyll Tarly:
Two wins here.
1) he is offered the position of Jamie Lannister's General in the war against Daenerys
2) he is offered the position "Warden of the South" after successfully defending the crown against Daenerys
1) he is offered the position of Jamie Lannister's General in the war against Daenerys
2) he is offered the position "Warden of the South" after successfully defending the crown against Daenerys
submitted by sanford (rejected: will count upon confirmation of Tarly fighting for the Lannisters)
nathan and jimmy.tague like this
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I agree, It's obvious he will align with the Lannisters here. -jimmy.tague
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Like the Jaime submission above, he'll get these in a future scene with more confirmation. -nyan
hkeseyan and emilien.raggi like this -
If it's obvious he "will align" then just wait until the episode where he does align. -hkeseyan
0:00
(+3)
Archmaester Ebrose:
The Archmaester forbids Jorah Mormont from receiving the experimental Greyscale treatment documented by Archmaester Pylos.
Ebrose: "I'm familiar with Archmaester Pylos and his study of rare diseases ... And shall I tell you how he died? From Greyscale. The procedure's far too dangerous, which is why it's now forbidden." (Executive Decision)
Ebrose: "I'm familiar with Archmaester Pylos and his study of rare diseases ... And shall I tell you how he died? From Greyscale. The procedure's far too dangerous, which is why it's now forbidden." (Executive Decision)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
pacelli929, hindsight44, as38 like this
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Could his name be fixed please? His name is not Maester Marwyn, it's Archmaester Ebrose. -magnetic_rose
nyan likes this -
@magnetic_rose finally got around to fixing that up! Marwyn was from the rumored casting list (and was the character's book name). Though I'm curious, has Ebrose actually had his name spoken aloud? Samwell only seems to say 'Archmaester'. -nyan
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I've been paying relatively close attention to his name, and I don't recall ever hearing it spoken aloud. IMDB credits Broadbent as Ebrose. Also, I believe Ebrose was in the books as more of a healer, while Marwyn was more of a magician. Given the autopsy scene and the greyscale scenes, I think Ebrose is more fitting with the direction they want to take the character -hkeseyan
nyan likes this
29:52
(+3)
Samwell Tarly:
Sam discovers an experimental treatment for Greyscale in a study of rare diseases by Archmaester Pylos.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
hkeseyan likes this
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Imo the dragonglass is much more of a "secret", the world and Masters are unaware of its importance, even if they are aware of it as trivia. -nyan
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I think the fact Stannis already willingly told him this. The Targs used them for decoration( wouldnt do that if you were trying to keep a secret). Theres no real evidence of anyone ever trying to guard this information(we agree that just because its in a maester section that doesnt automatically make it a secret). This does not constitute a secret based on the rulebook.
That being said we have both made our points and feel free to score this as you please. -hindsight44
alicehanners and nyan like this -
Also the Maesters may be unaware of its importance but Sam knew of its importance before he got to the Citadel. The secret in question is whether or not the cave in Dragonstone is a secret -hindsight44
53:37
(+6)
Euron Greyjoy:
Ellaria and Tyene Sand are taken prisoner by Euron's Ironborn.
(New Follower/Prisoner)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
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It was brought up that another character, Harrag, actually took them into custody: http://fantasora.com/event/3267
And there was no subsequent scene yet to show that Euron had them. These will still be counted for Euron once we see him present them to Cersei or whatever else his plans are. -nyan
hkeseyan likes this -
Reapproved after Harrag was decided to never have had independent control of the Sands as prisoners. See the above event for extended debate. -nyan
Ellaria and Tyene Sand are taken prisoner by one of Euron's Ironborn soldiers, Harrag.
(New Follower/Prisoner)
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: prisoner control goes straight to Euron, not much evidence for Harrag having independent control)
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OK so the guy that picks up Theon in episode 3 looks more like Brendan Cowell than the guy in episode 2.... what do you guys think? If the guy in episode 2 isn't Brendan Cowell, then my apologies for jumping to conclusions -hkeseyan
jake.kmiech and theripleymanor like this -
Whew! This one blew up while I was away, and I'm a little torn about what to do. For all the examples that @hkeseyan brings up (and thanks for that, I don't know how you're finding all these aside from just straight memory, as I don't have any of the event searching ready yet!), they've touched on cases where the intermediary prisoner-takers do seem to have independent control over the prisoners.
With the Lord of Bones, he captures Qhorin and Jon and there's a long march to Mance's camp. And as he states explicitly, he could have them executed if he wanted to, so he's very much in control of them independent of Mance.
Brienne I think is a clear case where she controls Jaime's fortunes, just with a general mission from Catelyn Stark.
Lancel taking Loras in S5 is the closest to this one. He is definitely in command of these troops, but there's not much sense that he has independent authority (could he have decided to execute Loras then and there, without the High Sparrow's permission? probably not). And then Loras pretty much shows up in the High Sparrow's custody right after.
I think Ellaria/Tyene closely match the Loras scenario, and arguably the Loras prisoner should've just been counted directly for the High Sparrow (we didn't have the same level of lively debates back then). Similar to the argument about "named kill" points, the fact that we are debating the existence of the character and would be easily counting the prisoners for Euron if "Harrag" didn't exist as a draftable character also point strongly to Harrag being an inconsequential middleman.
The possibility for shocking twists, and speculating on scenarios for them, is a separate but general scoring issue (and I'm sure we'll debate it a bit for S7E3!). It can go a lot of ways, especially because the line between one viewer's reasonable guess is another viewer's pure speculation is another viewer's "that's a completely batshit conspiracy theory".
I think there are decent arguments here and I wish I was around earlier this week to chime in, but since E3 has premiered and we're moving on to scoring for that, I'll make a gut decision (with a bit of hindsight) that Harrag was just a lackey and never had independent authority over the Sands as prisoners. But, feel free to continue discussing in this thread! -nyan
hkeseyan likes this -
@nyan let's just say I have some free time on my hands at work and am obsessed with both fantasy sports and Game of Thrones... -hkeseyan
nyan likes this
55:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron taunts Theon into fleeing the battle as he holds Yara captive: "Ah come on, you cockless coward. I have her. Come and get her."
(Convincing Argument)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
lomotan2 and hkeseyan like this
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I didn't think he was actually trying to convince Theon to run away. Knowing Euron, he was probably trying to push him to actually come and fight him so that he could kill/capture him as well. Euron had no reason to want to make Theon run, but has plenty of reason to try to goad him into a fight against him. It seems like more of a failed argument than a convincing one -cfitzgerald
alicehanners, ssantise, nyan like this -
Agree, a failed argument. You can see by the slight surprise/delight in his face when Theon jumps off. He really expected him to make a last final attempt at recovering his manhood.
-alicehanners
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Also it wasn't exactly Euron who convinces Theon to flee battle, it was the gruesome acts within the battle itself that convinces Theon, you can clearly see his facial expression change after he looks around the battle and sees peoples bodies being mutilated that causes him to flash back to being reek, he wasn't nearly as terrified of Euron as he was the whole situation -ssantise
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I think this line should be an insult -hkeseyan
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I buy that interpretation more than my original impression, moving into submissions. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Bran refuses to take on the mantle as Lord of Winterfell, leaving it to Sansa.
submitted by loneschach.art (rejected: not really a scoring category for not accepting a new title. also a little weak as an executive decision, if that was the intent)
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if we want to give out points like Halloween candy, we can say Sansa gave the title to Bran and Bran gave it back to Sansa :P -hkeseyan
nyan likes this
0:00
(+0)
Cersei Lannister:
Jaime has succesfully brokered a deal with Randyl Tarly making him a follower of the crown.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
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counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/3348 -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Cersei Lannister:
Highgarden is now a part of the Lannister Kingdom.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: Castles given to the generals who capture them, until we see the ruler arrive to take personal possession)
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@hindsight44 I think the important destinction between Dragonstone and Highgarden is that Dany is physically residing at Dragonstone unlike Highgarden where Cersie is still physically located at Kings Landing. -ssantise
nyan likes this -
I see what youre saying in the event that someone takes over an entire country getting points for every army and castle would be overkill. However the situation we are talking about is specifically one castle not a kingdom. I would find it fair however if lets say a monarch takes over a full kingdom ,instead of giving points for every castle it is just points for acquring a new kingdom. Another thing to consider is just because Cersei wasnt thete that doesnt mean she wasnt a major influence of the battle. She was very much a part of the planning and taking of Highgarden. When Tyrion is explaining taking Casterly Rock he says "Cersei will be ready". not Jaime -hindsight44
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@hindsight44 I think if we got a scene of Grey Worm leading a scouting party to arrive at Dragonstone first, exploring all the tunnels and securing the site, etc, it would count for Grey Worm to get intermediate points. We can speculate that something like this probably happened, but generally the scoring credit is for stuff that actually happens and takes place on-screen (like with the drinks, we haven't given them credit for walking off-screen with a cup). And what we got to see onscreen was Dany walking into Dragonstone on her own.
It seems a decent compromise to give the "rulers" the points for places they give a personal touch, such as leading the armies themselves or arriving at the location personally. Like deciding to exclude the indirect/commanded kills this year, it is a bit of "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword". Cersei and Dany can get all the points when they are willing to do the dirty work themselves. -nyan
0:00
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
After seizing Highgarden, the defeated Olenna Tyrell sits in her prisoner as a prisoner of Jaime Lannister.
(New Follower/Prisoner)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
I think she Overrules decisions for how to deal with Greyjoy her advisers are recommending when she says "I'm done with clever plans".
This indicates she's going to do what she wants this time. The strategic plans aren't working for her. At all.
This indicates she's going to do what she wants this time. The strategic plans aren't working for her. At all.
submitted by mary.d.piccione (rejected: not from this episode)
mary.d.piccione and shannonferretti like this
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I can't seem to find this line from the episode. There is a short scene where Varys delivers his report, the rest of Dany's scenes are about what to do with Jon Snow, and then Tyrion narrating over the Unsullied attack on Casterly Rock. -nyan
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she doesn't say this in episode 3... she says it in the preview for episode 4. -ssleppy
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Daenerys takes Casterly Rock. It's under her control at the end of the episode.
submitted by shannonferretti (rejected: Grey Worm took the castle, but Daenerys doesn't control it yet. Also Daenerys should have some action or at least a line where s)
jcbentle likes this
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Similar discussion with whether Cersei should get credit for Highgarden, the lean is to give credit to the commanders who seize the castle. It could transfer over if the nominal ruler arrives to the site, or did the actual army-leading themselves, which Dany has not done here. http://fantasora.com/event/3347 -nyan
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Grey Worm commanded the attack. If Jo Blo or Unsullied Soldier #456 was the first to race to the top of the castle and remove the banner they wouldn't get points. Grey Worm led the attack, I don't think it's fair to write him off like that. Also, there is more evidence that Tyrion gave the order, since he is explaining the plan after Varys says "The Unsullied will be there soon," implying that they have already left Dragonstone. Daenerys couldn't have given the order if she didn't know the plan yet. -hkeseyan
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Either way greyworm wouldn't get the points it would have to be Danny or Tyrion. However Danny has to give the command at the end of the day so Tyrion makes less sense. -talindsey
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Dany allows Jon to mine the dragonglass, which is an act of the start of a political alliance.
submitted by shannonferretti (rejected: no alliance or knee-bending promised from Jon.)
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Is this more like Euron promising the "gift" to Cersei, in good faith? So far it does not seem that Daenerys gets anything out of it (Jon has made no promises). -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Melisandre:
submitted by ssantise (rejected)
nyan likes this
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Well to be honest, I always felt Cersei just meeting with Euron was a deal within itself. For example if someone were to negotiate a sit down between two leaders of warring nations regardless of the outcome, just negotiating that sit down is a deal within itself. -ssantise
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@ssantise true, a sitdown between warring nations is an accomplishment, but I feel like there needs to be some small agreement for that to work, like a ceasefire during the meeting.
I'm also feeling that the "deals brokered" subcategory will require that the negotiator works with both sides of the table. Otherwise if it's just an advisor giving counsel on one half, the convince points are already covering it.
Fitting with the original idea, which was Varys getting some credit for a political agreement that nets points for the principal parties. Daenerys got a bunch of followers and army points out of the Tyrells and Dornish, the +3 deals brokered is basically a way to give Varys a cut of that. There were no points achieved by either Jon or Daenerys for simply meeting, thus no political accomplishment to give Melisandre a piece of. -nyan
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I would argue that Euron agreeing to go win Cerseis favor is at the very least a ceasefire. Also it could be considered eliminating a political rival. Euron promised the Iron Throne to his iron born and declared himself king of one of the crowns kingdoms. By agreeing to win her favor Euron no longer is competing with Cersei for the same political authority (as per the rules.) -hindsight44
0:00
(+3)
Tycho Nestoris:
Tycho Nestoris reaches an agreement on behalf of the Iron Bank to grant Cersei an extension on the Iron Throne's loans, after Cersei convinces him that the alternative of "investing" in Daenerys Targaryen's regime would be unwise.
(Deals Brokered)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
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Definitely this is not the Iron Bank of the books with regards to the slave trade. It disappoints me slightly as it seems to cut out some of the conspiracy theories behind the Iron Bank/Faceless Men having a greater, secret agenda going on in the background. -nyan
hkeseyan likes this -
@ssantise Tycho does not control The Iron Bank the same way Jon and Dany control their armies. The Iron Bank is subservient to Tycho, Tycho is subservient to The Iron Bank. This would be like Davos or Tyrion speaking on behalf of Jon or Dany. If we want to get bogged down into the details, there is real-life precedent for this, as corporations in the modern day are treated as their own entity.
But who better to explain it than Tywin Lannister himself? See this video from 1:50 to 2:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqIyVtlxbW8
The Iron Bank is its own entity, Tycho is an employee, he is an emissary, a broker for The Iron Bank in the literal sense of the word.
@hindsight44 you make a good point about the "gift" situation with Cersei and Euron. However, we explicitly see in that scene that Cersei declines the offer. Euron responds by explaining clearly that he will resume the talks only when he returns with his end of the deal. In this case, Tycho does not object to Cersei's request.
Another thing is that I think we are putting aside too many opportunities for convincing arguments and negotiations lately, and ignoring the fact that we have a betrayal category. A person's word means so much in Westeros, breaking oaths and loyalty are seen as a very significant event. We have a category just for these events, and we award points for betrayal. I say that unless we see a decline in a deal like this, we should score it as a deal and then see if betrayal occurs later. If Tycho breaks his end of the deal, or if Cersei breaks her end of the deal, that will be a very significant plot point that will be outlined in the show. -hkeseyan
nyan likes this -
I would offer Tycho's response as evidence, after Cersei states her case: "Your father's daughter, indeed."
It's not quite an explicit yes, but is a favorable response to everything Cersei just laid out. This is as opposed to Cersei's E1 response to Euron, which was an explicit "No." -nyan
hkeseyan likes this
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron gained 2 prisoners
submitted by golub.jake (rejected: counted last episode)
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This was a late reversal, but we decided that the prisoners were Euron's in E2 and removed the Harrag points. -nyan
0:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
With his succesful destruction of Yara Greyjoy's fleet and the "gift" of the captured Ellaria and Tyene Sand, Euron wins over Cersei and convinces her to ally with his Ironborn and accept his marriage proposal.
(Convincing Argument)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
nyan likes this
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Original submission by @hkeseyan:
Euron has convinced Cersei to accept his hand in marriage. Cersei: ""You shall have what your heart desires"
Cersei has apparently accepted Euron's proposal for his hand in marriage from back in episode 1. Scoring for this event was delayed until we see confirmation that Cersei agrees to the deal, which we receive in this episode. Cersei has given Euron her word that he will receive his reward, in front of Jaime Lannister and the court, as we see Jaime uncomfortably react to her words. -nyan
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I think it's fine that Cersei still says, "...after the war is won". Like Robert's order to send assassins for Daenerys, it's fine if the order is not carried out to completion, just that the course of action was decided upon. In addition, he does still convince Cersei to ally with the Ironborn and name him head of the Royal Navy. Although that's kind of trivial because it's basically all Ironborn ships at this point. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Randyll Tarly:
Political Win for Randyll Tarly - became a general in the Lannister/Crown army. This was offered to him last week by Jamie Lannister, but it wasn't determined if he accepted it or not. Now we see him riding alongside Jamie, showing that he accepted.
submitted by sanford (rejected: duplicate)
nathan, peggypcwu, bookworm13457, goodjujumagic like this
Harrag as the captain of the ship that found reek/theon, he has obtained a new follower as Theon being his prisoner.
submitted by ssantise (rejected: will wait to see further evidence that Theon is serving Harrag.)
hkeseyan likes this
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I don't think that Theon is quite a prisoner, pending further evidence about his role on the ship. -nyan
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I would say he is subservient though which would make him a follower. Theon multiple times has said he is not interested in power. It is custom in Ironborn culture that when a captain is abord his ship he is the King of that shit. So Theon who is ironborn and has no interestest in power is forced to follow this custom. Also last week talked about possibly giving points for saving someones life. This seems to be one of those situations. -hindsight44
hkeseyan likes this -
lololol auto corrected ship to shit -hindsight44
hkeseyan, ssantise, nyan like this -
Poor Theon, any time he meets someone new, we have to assume he is subservient. -hkeseyan
nyan likes this -
Even if he isn't a prisoner, shouldn't he still be considered a follower? The rulebook states that a follower must be in a subservient role. Harrag is the captain of the ship therefore, Theon is subservient to him. Harrag is directing the ships course and Theon is literally following him wherever he goes. -ssantise
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I agree that if we start seeing Theon do basic sailor stuff like scrubbing the decks or rowing, he'd be considered a follower for Harrag. I'd like to see a little more evidence of that, it's very possible that Theon is just a rescued passenger and he gets dropped off to Pyke or Dragonstone in the next episode. Like with Melisandre, we were speculating that she might join Daenerys' court and become her adviser, but she's just going to dip to Volantis instead and never formally serves Daenerys. -nyan
Harrag's ship discovers the fate of Theon as he picks him up out of the rubble and water after Euron's attack on Yara's fleet.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by ssantise (approved!)
hkeseyan and ssantise like this
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Also I don't believe this relevant to the slippery slope discussion. In that event the argument was based upon the idea that it was no secret that the dragonglass was at Dragonstone. Unlike the dragonglass there is no Stannis or Tyrion casually talking about where Theon was before Harrag pulled him on board. In fact as you pointed out, the only character to talk about Theon at all since he disappeared is Euron, who thinks he's dead, all the while Theon is secretly still alive. -ssantise
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Bullshit -carter5719
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Harrag is gonna need a special this season :) any thoughts? -jgiuliano
5:10
(+3)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Jon Snow surrenders Longclaw to the forces of Daenerys Targaryen as a condition of his visit to Dragonstone.
(New Weapon)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
jake.kmiech, Lem Lemoncake, shannonferretti like this
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That seems like a fair way to score it. I suppose this also means a new scoring rule that you need to assume... usable possession of a weapon? Permanent possession? Basically just stating that coat checks don't count. -nyan
hkeseyan and alexanderdropkin like this -
I like @hkeseyan's interpetation of the rules. I think this is the most reasonable way to score this. -ssantise
hkeseyan likes this -
That sounds good, I've added the following into the rulebook: "Weapons temporarily ceded with the assumption of being returned are not counted. The character acquiring the weapon must indicate their willingness to use the weapon, or to keep it on a permanent/indefinite basis. Basically, coat checks do not count." -nyan
30:40
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Cersei casually reveals her night of incest with Jaime in her chambers as she opens the door for one of her handmaidens.
Jaime: "What are you doing? No one can see us like this."
Cersei: "I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, I'll do as I please." (Executive Decision)
Jaime: "What are you doing? No one can see us like this."
Cersei: "I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, I'll do as I please." (Executive Decision)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
taylorreneegoodrich and playabills like this
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I'm not sure that this really qualifies as a "major decision"? Since we know the handmaiden is is not going to do anything. But it is Cersei flexing her political muscle to Jaime. -nyan
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I Interprered this as two things. First was her decision that she is longer hiding their incest
Second that between her and Jaime she is the one wearing the proverbial pants. Also because this is within a sex scene if it does receive points it should get the 2x multiplier. I can see both sides of this argument however. -hindsight44
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It doesn't seem very 'executive' at this point. -xdwxrd
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I agree that this does deserved points for an Executive Decision, her openly revealing her incestual relationship is a Major Decision. However Cersie definitely should not be getting 2X multiplier for non-sexual acts. She already is probably going to be the highest scoring character in the game and if shes going to be more open about her relationship with Jamie she definitely cannot be getting 2X for everything she does.
I think we need clarification on the Cersie's special. The rule currently reads: "2x multiplier for sex scenes involving incest" although I believe it has the same meaning, I think it should be refined to read "2x multiplier for sexual ACTS involving incest". -ssantise
nyan likes this -
@ssantise thats a good clarification, I'll change the text. The intention was definitely for the sex act, not everything happening in the scenes -nyan
40:48
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
Tyrion succesfully brokers a deal for Daenerys to provide Jon Snow and the North with Dragonglass.
Daenerys Targaryen: "I will allow you to mine the dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (Deals Brokered)
Daenerys Targaryen: "I will allow you to mine the dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you." (Deals Brokered)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
ssantise likes this
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It sort of seems like a classic "deal" that Tyrion negotiated. However he did already get 2x Convincing Argument scores for both Daenerys and Jon for this deal. Since this is a new category the exact scoring criteria for "deals" has a lot of room for refinement. Should it stack when we already see the negotiations happen on-screen and are double-counting with convincing arguments? -nyan
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I figured he led two convincing arguments, and that actually Dany and Jon 'brokered' the deal. Although, theirs isn't necessarily a deal in any way either. -xdwxrd
Lem Lemoncake and shannonferretti like this -
Seems to not have consensus as a 'deal'. From my viewing, by the time Daenerys and Jon meet it seems Daenerys' mind has already been made up and no further negotiation happened in that scene - Tyrion had fully convinced her by then.
Is it not a deal because it was simply a one-sided gift (Jon didn't promise anything in return). I can buy that as a criteria for a deal (some mutually beneficial arrangement). -nyan
Daenerys grants the cache of Dragonglass to Jon: "I will allow you to mine the Dragonglass and forge weapons from it. Any resources or men you need, I will provide for you."
(New Weapon)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
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61:26
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
In her dying moments, Olenna Tyrell reveals to Jaime that she was Joffrey's killer.
"I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes bloodred, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me ... You see, I had never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." (Secret Discovery)
"I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes bloodred, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me ... You see, I had never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." (Secret Discovery)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake, hkechukyan, playabills like this
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Per the previous discussion about Edd, we were considering elimination of the "willingly told" criteria and instead allowing scores if they are the only person to know the secret outside of the secret holder: http://fantasora.com/event/3128
This one seems to fit a similar criteria to Edd's discovery of Bran. Though it could be argued the identity of Joffrey's killer is irrelevant at this point? -nyan
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I think that even if it is "willingly told", it is an important discovery for Jaime and only a few people know (maybe dead? Margeary <3). So the question is more about, Is this really a secret important for the plot and the story. But for Jaime it is. -emilien.raggi
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It is definitely a secret discovery. And especially for Jaime it is crucial information because now his beloved brother who he freed and so forth is not guilty of the one crime that Jaime may not have ever been able to forgive him. Plus: Now Cersei's main legitimization for wanting Tyrion dead has to switch from regicide/nephicide to treason or whatever they call it :D -Lem Lemoncake
nyan and emilien.raggi like this -
Ooh @Lem very good points about the implications to Tyrion! -nyan
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I personally like the "willingly told" criteria of the rule. A huge part of everything we see on screen is a secret in one way or another to other character's in the show. Without the "willingly told" clause this rule could start to run away with points. For example every named character in winterfell would have just gotten points for finding out that Bran is still alive, do we really want 10+ characters getting points for finding out a secret each episode? -ssantise
nyan likes this -
@ssantise that was the initial reason for the "willingly told" criteria, definitely something like Bran coming to Winterfell is now just new information, not a valuable secret. The new idea is the criteria that someone is the first/only person to know of a secret, since that gives them exclusive power to act on that information. That would seem to fit Jaime's situation (he could exonerate Sansa and Tyrion with this info). -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Littlefinger pledges loyalty to Bran Stark: "Anything I can do for you Brandon, you need only ask." We know how little his words mean in terms of honor and honesty, but he offered his loyalty regardless, and is acting in a subservient role to Bran, even so far as to offer him a gift of his loyalty.
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: Offer of assistance but not quite a pledge of loyalty)
emilien.raggi and alicehanners like this
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I do feel like we are flirting a line between the actual subservience implied by a follower, and simply offers of friendship. -nyan
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0:00
(+0)
Brienne of Tarth:
Brienne is now willing to call herself a lady.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
0:00
(+0)
Cersei Lannister:
This might be more of a preface for next episode but where do we stand in regards to the deal brokered between Tycho and Cersei? Terms were set and the only thing contingent on the deal being solidified was "as soon as the gold arrives."Randyll Tarly specifcally says all the gold has arrived safely in KL before the attack. So my question is do we wait till next week to award the proper points? In my opinion we should, the only problem could be is if there is no direct confirmation of the deal and Tycho already went back to Braavos.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: counted)
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dude you went in last night lol. i would say calling them a follower because although they arent loyal to Cersei they are loyal to the money.Paraphrasing but theres a scene where Tycho gets like real creepy and says how much he looooved Cerseis interest payments. Also i think for next season you should think about possibly taking the third party requirement out of a deal brokered. I understand it was made for shady middle men but this season Cersei is the hands down champion of negotiation. She talked her way out of certain defeat and made House Lannister a threat. -hindsight44
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Yeah, I think I could buy that the Iron Bank has sort of "allied" itself with Cersei. For a traditional house this would be counted as the New Army, but the Iron Bank provides gold not soldiers. I think I'll just add "loot" to the definition for Armies/Castles.
So I think points breakdowns in total for the Tycho/Cersei transactions would go like this:
Cersei: +9 eventually
+3 Convince for dissuading Tycho from investing in Daenerys
+3 New "loot" for securing a new loan from the Iron Bank
(+3 New army when she uses that gold to buy the Golden Company)
Jaime: +6
+3 for defeating the Tyrells
+3 for securing the Tyrell gold in transit
Tycho: +6
+3 deals brokered
(+3 new "loot" from securing the full payment of debt on behalf of the Iron Bank)
In total the Lannister twins are getting +15, but part of that credit is going to Jaime for doing the actual dirty work for beating the Tyrells.
That last one, I'm thinking Tycho can just have a Special that he functions as the head of a house for the Iron Bank? -nyan
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And yeah, this is scoring catchup day as I was out for the last week without internet =D -nyan
hindsight44 likes this
When Bronn shot down a dragon which was burning thousands of people alive i would say this is a minor battle win (As described in the rulebook.) Obviously he lost the total battle but there was a small battle between Bronn and Dany which Bronn won.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: Will wait on final resolution of battle)
nyan, Ser Vincent, playabills, jimmy.tague like this
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He already received points for the major iniury -hkeseyan
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There's an argument for this, it's a very small win in the scheme of the battle as it seems all of the damage has already been done (the Lannister army is still in disarray after this). Not quite a tie-turning moment in the battle, but then again it's taking down a freaking dragon. -nyan
Ser Vincent likes this
(Convincing Argument) Daenerys is frustrated from her recent losses and is becoming more bent on attacking the Red Keep directly with her dragons... Jon convinces Daenerys to not use her dragons on the Red Keep/King's Landing.
Daenerys - "I have three large dragons. I'm going to fly them to the Red Keep.... my enemies are in the Red Keep...."
"What do you think I should do?"
Jon Snow - "...the people that follow you know that you made something impossible happen. Maybe that makes them believe that you can make other impossible things happen. Build a world that's different from the shit one they've always known. But if you use [dragons] to melt castles and burn cities, you're not different, you're must more of the same."
Daenerys - "I have three large dragons. I'm going to fly them to the Red Keep.... my enemies are in the Red Keep...."
"What do you think I should do?"
Jon Snow - "...the people that follow you know that you made something impossible happen. Maybe that makes them believe that you can make other impossible things happen. Build a world that's different from the shit one they've always known. But if you use [dragons] to melt castles and burn cities, you're not different, you're must more of the same."
submitted by EvanWolfe (rejected)
kremershell, playabills, Laxis, EvanWolfe like this
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Similar to the original score for Jon here, which was removed: http://fantasora.com/event/3424
It is technically correct that she doesn't go to burn down KL or the Red Keep itself, but the gist of the argument (don't use dragons and strongarm your way to the throne by burning hundreds/thousands of people) seems to have been ignored. -nyan
While standinf guard at Winterfell. Koner is confronted by none other than Arya Stark, someone who is presumed dead.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: Doesn't meet"exclusive group" criteria)
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My supporting argument would be this is almost identical to Edd Tollet receiving points for Bran. -hindsight44
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He doesn't know or even think that this is Arya Stark. Edd is visibly convinced that he has discovered Bran and Meera -hkeseyan
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Another difference may be that Arya just presents herself to the guards and is just publicly standing around inside the courtyard. In the new scoring criteria we have this concept of the secret-learners being an "exclusive" group, aimed at excluding information that just gets public all at once (like Bran's return to Winterfell). In Edd's case, only Edd and his loyal soldiers meet with Bran and they arguably have "custody" of Bran at that moment in time. Similar with the rescue of Theon - it's only Harrag and his loyal crew that know what happened with Theon. Here I don't think the guards have nearly that same level of power over the information. -nyan
4:50
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Jaime acquires all of the Tyrell gold after taking Highgarden, although it is bound for the Iron Bank.
(Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
hindsight44 and angelsboy96 like this
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Which would this be a score for? -nyan
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I think it is just a simple political win because it is similar to winning a battle because without it the lannisters would be in a disaterous spot. -angelsboy96
righteous likes this -
There's an argument to be made that "New Army/Castle" could be expanded to encompass generally valuable loot. I agree that getting the gold was a vital part of this mission, just as important as actually defeating the Tyrells. But that's also expanding the criteria and not quite a reasonable interpretation of the existing rules. How do people feel if this was added as a new sort of subcategory, or is this better left for S8/rewatches? -nyan
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I think it being added to the general spoils of war category makes sense -angelsboy96
Jon convinces Daenerys to not take the nuclear option to burn King's Landing and the Red Keep with her dragons, although she still decides to ride Drogon and attack the Lannister caravan returning from the Reach instead.
"I never thought that dragons would exist again. No one did. The people who follow you know that you made something impossible happen. Maybe that helps them believe that you can make other impossible things happen. Build a world that's different from the shit one they've always known.
But if you use them to melt castles and burn cities, you're not different. You're just more of the same." (Convincing Argument)
"I never thought that dragons would exist again. No one did. The people who follow you know that you made something impossible happen. Maybe that helps them believe that you can make other impossible things happen. Build a world that's different from the shit one they've always known.
But if you use them to melt castles and burn cities, you're not different. You're just more of the same." (Convincing Argument)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake, hindsight44, kremershell like this
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I think this argument was not successful. Like you said, she still decides to attack the Lannister army, and if you watch the "inside the episode" Benioff clearly say that she didn't listen to Tyrion and Jon (I know we only stick to the actual episode, but this is a direct and explained proof of what Danny is thinking). Jon was trying to convince her to not use her dragons yet, however she still did. The argument was not convincing -emilien.raggi
nyan likes this -
Yeah I think there's a fair debate to be had on that. She still burns a lot of people. I'll move to submissions to get more eyes on it. -nyan
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On further rewatch the dialogue between Randyll Tarly and Jaime indicate the battle takes place just outside of King's Landing, so it seems none of Jon's advice was heeded. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Cersei Lannister:
@nyan i went over in length why Cersei should get points for the Iron Bank in another thread no need to reiterate all the points. I dont think convincing Tycho to stick around for two weeks is the same as paying back your debt and setting terms on a goforward basis.(in her convo with Jaime she confirms the Iron Bank is on her side.) the convo also distinguishes the difference between the Iron Bank already supporting her and later on retrieving the Golden Company.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: counted)
emilien.raggi and nyan like this
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Yep, I think someone will get something here. Will tackle it while I'm resolving E4 stuff. -nyan
As Cersei explains to Jaime quite clearly that Bronn betrayed him by setting up the Tyrion meeting.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
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sry idk why i keep messing this up every week, meant to be betrayal. -hindsight44
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I think that's Cersei's opinion, but Jaime clearly doesn't see it that way. -nyan
jedjackoway likes this -
And neither does Bronn, that's perhaps the most important criteria. -nyan
jedjackoway, goodjujumagic, emilien.raggi like this -
Paraphrasing but Bronn does tell Jaime i lied to you because i knew you wouldnt come here if you knew my true purpose. -hindsight44
talindsey and emilien.raggi like this -
This is a white lie though, Bronn still has Jaime's interests at heart in leading him to the dungeons. -nyan
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i can dig it -hindsight44
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Did Dany get points applied for winning the battle last episode? Or would they be applied in this one?
submitted by N1ce And Squeezy (rejected)
shannonferretti likes this
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I think she got points last episode and she even get points here for the new prisonners -emilien.raggi
nyan likes this -
They were given last episode. If there were an Act 2 to the battle, maybe something could've been counted but it pretty much ended on last week's sorta lame non-cliffhanger. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Samwell Tarly:
Sam commits up to 2 acts of betrayals against the Maesters of the Citadel by stealing books from the restricted section, and then abandoning his post as a maester-in-training.
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected)
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Counted as 1 here. I think taking the books and leaving is a betrayal, but each one by itself is not really (the book-stealing is a little more of disobeying the rules than betrayal, and Maester training isn't a sworn oath): http://fantasora.com/event/3562 -nyan
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Counted as 1 here. I think taking the books and leaving is a betrayal, but each one by itself is not really (the book-stealing is a little more of disobeying the rules than betrayal, and Maester training isn't a sworn oath): http://fantasora.com/event/3562 -nyan
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Didn't see the first one, oops -hkeseyan
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Ebrose loses an understudy, who drops a task he was given to transcribe the old texts. The Citadel loses a janitor and busboy. In return for receiving access to The Citadel and its resources, Sam was entrusted to (1) not steal books (especially form the restricted section) and (2) perform his tasks and serve his superiors. Does there need to be a sworn oath to constitute betrayal, or is breaking an unwritten placement of trust enough? -hkeseyan
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Well I think the trust to not steal books is accounted for, and stealing books is the reason that Sam has to run away in the middle of the night. But the Maester training program doesn't seem like it is super strict about just quitting on the job and leaving (Qyburn was ejected, not executed, which is what would have happened at say the Night's Watch). -nyan
hkeseyan and emilien.raggi like this
8:39
(+3)
Dickon Tarly:
Over protests from both his father Randyll and Tyrion, Dickon also decides to die with his father rather than bend the knee to Daenerys Targaryen. "You will have to kill me too."
(Executive Decision)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
csepulveda2885 likes this
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I'm not sure if this meets the "major decision" criteria as it's a personal choice, not hugely different from his father's choice. However as Tyrion mentions, this "ends" House Tarly (except for a certain sworn brother of the Night's Watch) and Dickon steadfastly makes it over the protest of everyone else there. -nyan
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Would it maybe count as a suicide, the same way the Queen of Thorns did? he chose his death after all and could have chosen his life -brandonthebigB
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It's a suicidal move given the situation, but I think for the kills we'll make it super-simple and just record whoever is directly making the killing blow, so to speak. -nyan
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He doesn't even end his house with his suicide. There is a sister Tarly iirc and following the recent events in Westeros, we can clearly see a trend of women taking over houses, thrones and kingdoms ?? -Lem Lemoncake
nyan likes this -
Okay, it may have been a personal executive decision but seems pretty weak as a political one. -nyan
11:05
(+3)
Daenerys Targaryen:
The remnants of the Lannister army bend the knee to Daenerys after witnessing Randyll and Dickon Tarly executed by dragonfire.
(Acquire a New Castle/City/Army/Loot)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
jake.kmiech, righteous, shannonferretti like this
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It's a sizable group of Lannister soldiers, but they're beaten and it's questionable how much of an "army" they'll really be? -nyan
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Plus counted as prisonners already -emilien.raggi
13:45
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Cersei rejects Jaime's plea to find a peaceful solution out of the conflict with Daenerys.
Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)
Jaime: "And if we don't find a way out of this war, we'll follow them."
Cersei: "So we fight and die or we submit and die. I know my choice. A soldier should know his." (Executive Decision)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
emilien.raggi likes this
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same idiocy by me, Overrulibg decision. -hindsight44
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same principle as her oberruling jaime with Euron -hindsight44
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Did any decision come out of this? I'm not sure that Jaime had a proposal or that Cersei had an order at the end of the day. It was sort of an expression of sentiments, Jaime saying they can't win against dragons and Cersei saying they'll still fight on and find a way. -nyan
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Overuling doesnt mean mean you need to order anything. Her decision was to stay the course against a third parties disaproval. In a court of law a judge uses overrule so the subject can stay the course and not accept whatever arguement the lawyer is trying to present. Cersei didnt give an order or change anything at all when she Overuled Jaimes advice to meet with Euron, she simply stayed the course after overuling her generals advice. Also this was clearly not a simple tit for tat conversation, Jaime says at the beginning of the episode he has to tell Cersei how bad this is. As general of her army in his next scene he specifcally went to her to try and convince her that this is a war that they will lose. -hindsight44
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Yeah I think that works as a light decision. Jaime didn't have a concrete solution but he was sort of proposing that they start looking for alternate, peaceful solutions and that was rejected pretty strongly. -nyan
19:47
(+3)
Bran Stark:
Bran discovers the location of the Night King and the army of the dead, marching towards Eastwatch. "Ravens. We need to send ravens."
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
talindsey, righteous, kimbo like this
22:09
(+3)
Archmaester Ebrose:
Archmaester Ebrose rejects Sam's pleas to immediately alert the realm about the impending White Walker invasion as the Council of Maesters discusses a letter sent by Maester Wolkan of Winterfell about the army of the dead.
Samwell Tarly: "Archmaester, please. It's real. I've seen it."
Ebrose: "We will write to Maester Wolkan at Winterfell for clarification. I promise you we will get to the truth of it one way or another."
Sam: "Archmaester, please-"
Ebrose: "That will be all, Tarly." (Executive Decision)
Samwell Tarly: "Archmaester, please. It's real. I've seen it."
Ebrose: "We will write to Maester Wolkan at Winterfell for clarification. I promise you we will get to the truth of it one way or another."
Sam: "Archmaester, please-"
Ebrose: "That will be all, Tarly." (Executive Decision)
submitted by Ser Vincent (approved!)
nyan likes this
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Executive decision (overruling), in this case Samwell is the third party protesting against inactivity after the council receives the message from Maester Wolkan. -Ser Vincent
28:22
(+3)
Robett Glover:
Lord Glover and the other Northern lords attempt to usurp Jon Snow and pledge their allegiances to Sansa Stark instead: "We did not choose you to rule us, my Lady. But perhaps we should have."
(Act of Betrayal)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
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Is it betrayal though? To me it just looked like old dudes standing around harrumphing about Jon being gone. It's not like they're in open rebellion or trying something sneaky. They just mad and talking shit. -theripleymanor
nyan, alicehanners, Laxis, xdwxrd, 3 others like this -
I wouldn't count it as betrayal either, they're basically just complaining about Jon to Sansa -Laxis
kimbo likes this -
He didn't betray him yet. -xdwxrd
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Operative word: 'yet'. -dopeghoti
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Okay, seems like fairly strong complaints against this. And the fact that they do it out in the open court (where anybody might report back to Jon) shows they're not *that* secretive and behind the back about it. Perhaps something further will happen with their secret Littlefinger discussions, but I'll remove these for now. -nyan
28:31
(+3)
Bronze Yohn Royce:
Lord Royce and the Northern lords attempt to usurp Jon Snow and pledge their allegiances to Sansa Stark instead: "The Knights of the Vale came here for you, Lady Stark."
(Act of Betrayal)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
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I don't think they have betrayed anyone yet. Like Sansa mentioned, she was hearing out the Lord's grievances. Can't call that usurping. -craigdietz20
Laxis and kimbo like this -
you can call it treason though. -hindsight44
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Royce's line isn't so bad, but Glover's sounds like straight-up mutiny to me. -nyan
kevinpetsky likes this -
I'd say Glover was opening the door for mutiny but as it stands he hasn't betrayed Jon Snow yet and neither have Royce and the Vale. -craigdietz20
nyan and kimbo like this -
I don't think they betrayed him yet. -xdwxrd
craigdietz20 likes this -
Further discussion on the Robbet Glover score, but will remove these: http://fantasora.com/event/3524 -nyan
32:25
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Jaime is taken by Bronn to the dungeons beneath the Red Keep, where he finds his fugitive brother Tyrion who has arranged a meeting with him there.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
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Dang, I am kind of regretting losing the "willfully told" provision. It was working as a decent catch-all to exclude a lot of stuff like this that does technically fit but we sort of know it is not a powerful secret that goes anywhere. Anyhow for consistency's sake I'll add it in, I feel like I want to do more thinking about Secrets next season. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this -
damned if you do, damned if you don't -hkeseyan
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I think you should add the caveat that being willfully told a secret only counts if the only people who know the secret are the person telling the secret in the person being told secret. That still allows for secret discovery when it's not willingly told, but that puts an end to potential secret chains. What happens if Cersei told someone that Olenna killed Joffrey? What happens if that person tells them? Where does it end? -alicehanners
nyan likes this -
*and the person, not in the person -alicehanners
Bronn finds Tyrion in the dungeons below the Red Keep, later arranging a secret meeting between him and Jaime.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
talindsey, righteous, jayson.the.pirate like this
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How do we know Bronn found Tyrion? Wouldn't Tyrion have sought Bronn out? Not really a 'secret' in any form. -xdwxrd
kimbo and dopeghoti like this -
I basically agree, however this is the same score as for Jaime - at some point Bronn must have been the only one in KL to have known that Tyrion is there, which is secret worthy.
I think in the new secret rules for next season, events like this will definitely not make it. However we already went through a long debate which ended with this new criteria so I've scored this for consistency's sake. -nyan
Gilly learns about a secret marriage by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen recorded in a book by High Septon Maynard.
Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Secret Discovery)
Gilly: "What does 'annulment' mean?"
Samwell: "It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife."
Gilly: "Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince 'Ragger' and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." (Secret Discovery)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
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If Gilly gets the points, Sam should too. She has about as much use with it as he does, but they both now know it -alexanderdropkin
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For Sam, I'd argue that he sort of blew Gilly off to the point of not even hearing what she said. But if he brings it up again ("hey were you saying something before about a Prince Ragger?") then we could count it then?
This is why you stay an attentive listener to your girlfriends, guys. Fantasy points, think about the fantasy points. -nyan
xdwxrd, kevinpetsky, jake.kmiech like this -
ahem -alexanderdropkin
50:30
(+3)
Arya Stark:
Arya observes Littlefinger discreetly passing a coin to a girl in the kennels of Winterfell, and later seeming to discuss something with Lord Glover and Lord Royce in private.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
nathan likes this
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I would argue this is not hitting the "specific, concrete" criteria for a secret. She saw Littlefinger passing the coin but doesn't have any idea what it's about - she only has the half of a secret and the half is not useful. -nyan
Jon and the Magnificent Seven set out beyond the Wall from Eastwatch, on a ranging to capture a wight to bring back south. Among the new recruits under his command are Jorah Mormont, Gendry, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros, and the Hound.
(New Follower/Prisoner)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
brandonthebigB likes this
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I think Tormund wouldn't have counted in that case, they were much more equals (since Tormund was the intermediary to talk to all the Wildlings there). I think this decision would set a new precedent on whether being a clear commander means everyone in the army is a follower. -nyan
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If Dany and Cersei team up with Jon to fight the WW and Jon commands the battle does that make them followers? Are they subservient or are they letting Jon command because its unwise to put too many cooks in the kitchen? -hindsight44
nyan likes this -
I think I've been swayed to reverse this. Some other precedents would be Jorah and Daario teaming up to search for Dany in S6, or the Night's Watch brothers going up to evict Karl Tanner and the mutineers out of Craster's in S4. They were banding up, and perhaps Jon could be said to lead the mission but nobody was following/subservient to the other.
For Jorah there's definitely some independence - he's actually first to volunteer to bag a wight before Jon even. And the Brotherhood seems mostly happy to get out and never makes any remarks about following Jon. Gendry has the previous scene on Dragonstone where he pledges to join up with whatever Jon's doing, so he'll count here: http://fantasora.com/event/3596 -nyan
hkeseyan likes this
0:00
(+0)
Sansa Stark:
New weapon - Arya gives Sansa the dagger
submitted by iamjodiehuang (rejected: Not a formal gifting.)
jedjackoway likes this
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We don't know as Sansa is in Arya's room she might only put it back on the table after that. It's not a "this is your new weapon" kind of stuff like Littlefinger to Bran or Bran to Arya. Plus your not counting Tormund getting the hammer, or Longclaw to Dany. -emilien.raggi
Either its a new title or Funny Line but Bronns speech about how he loves people calling him my lord should counted.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
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His title is still just Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, right? He still hasn't gotten that castle or girl that Jaime promised. -nyan
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His subordinates were all calling him my lord. Which he jokes to Jaime is new to him. -hindsight44
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Also Jaime the person in charge of what rank Bronn is doesnt correct Bronn when he brings up he is a new lord he actually affirms it by saying, "you'll get used to it." -hindsight44
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I can't find anything explicit for a new title. The wiki has some similar confusion:
"It is confusing why, at the beginning of the episode, Bronn remarks on how pleasant it is when soldiers call him "my lord" now - as if this is a new development. He is still just a landless knight, but was knighted at the beginning of Season 3 (knights are sometimes generically addressed as "my lord"). Later with Tyrion, Bronn remarks on how he actually hasn't gotten the full reward he wanted, of a castle and a marriage to a noblewoman so he can join the ranks of the nobility. In the novels by this point, Bronn has actually already married Lollys Stokeworth - who was introduced in Season 5, only for the Lannisters to call off the betrothal because they still needed Bronn's help. It's unclear if there was supposed to be some sort of deleted scene in Season 7 explaining that he recently has been allowed to marry Lollys, which was then cut for time, or if this is purely meant to refer to his status as a knight. Bryan Cogman did mention in passing that there were more Bronn scenes intended for previous episodes this season that were cut for time, which seems to support this somewhat."
So perhaps something did happen, but since they didn't get shown or mentioned explicitly I don't think we can count this. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Davos Seaworth:
Davos opens the gates to Eastwatch to discover Gendry collapsed on the ground with crucial information, and sends for a raven to inform Daenerys.
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: Sort of failing by exclusive audience, as Davos doesn't really run Eastwatch.)
jake.kmiech likes this
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I think if we count Gendry's, this would seem to fit. However I'm having a hard time drawing the line to say Dany would not also count here. -nyan
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how far down do you want the "among the first to know" go? -hkeseyan
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Heh I want to go back to the old criteria and stop at Gendry, since he is the only one who found the info by being there, vs being told. -nyan
Laxis and emilien.raggi like this
0:00
(+0)
Tormund Giantsbane:
New Weapon - Tormund takes Gendry's hammer
submitted by iamjodiehuang (rejected)
Laxis and jedjackoway like this
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That hammer is definitely unique and badass enough to count for this category. -jedjackoway
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So I scored this for Hound and skipped Tormund in the line of succession. I thought for sure we would see it, but the next appearance it's in the Hound's hands and he's the only one who uses it.
Earlier this season we decided not to count Daenerys temporarily taking Longclaw, and I'm wondering if we should formalize that criteria so that the character is formally receiving the item as a permanent gift, or uses the weapon on screen. -nyan
jake.kmiech, emilien.raggi, Lem Lemoncake like this
Little Finger, a member of her council, has betrayed Sansa. By allowing Arya to find the letter, he has created a barrier of trust between Arya and Sansa, pitting them against each other. This goes directly against Sansa's interests and isolates her from her family. And as we see puts her closer to Petyr.
submitted by cmwalker521 (rejected)
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We counted a betrayal when Littlefinger got the letter from Wolkan. I suppose this could count again for letting Arya find it? -nyan
emilien.raggi likes this -
Arya didnt find it this episode and was already confrontational with Sansa before this episode. Really feel like this would be double dipping. -hindsight44
jedjackoway likes this -
At the end of this episode compared to last, there really isnt that much of a shift to say Littlefinger constructed a new betrayal or did anything really point worthy. We already knew Arya got the letter purposley by Littlefinger and we already knew Arya was pissed at Sansa from e5, that dynamic pretty much stayed the same in e6. The only thing Little finger brought up was that Brienne would be obligated to kill Arya if she had to protec tSansa, which didnt work because later in the Episode she sends Brienne far away from WF so it obviously wasnt a Convincing argument. Also the rules state:
-hindsight44
nyan, emilien.raggi, jedjackoway like this -
"A betrayal is defined as an act against the victim's interest, when the victim fully trusted the character to act in theirs." Sansa has said multiple times she doesnt trust LF and also said that in front of Arya who also clearly doesnt trust him because shes been spying on him. I dont think theres any proof or evidence to show that either Sansa or Arya trust LF to act in their best interest in fact its the opposite. sorry for multiple posts -hindsight44
[35:18]
The Hound slings the tied up wight onto his back, running with him toward the ice. He can later be seen throwing the wight into a boat at [59:30], maintaining his control over the prisoner
(New follower/prisoner)
The Hound slings the tied up wight onto his back, running with him toward the ice. He can later be seen throwing the wight into a boat at [59:30], maintaining his control over the prisoner
(New follower/prisoner)
submitted by jake.kmiech (rejected)
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Yeah I think Hound gets this as his prisoner. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Beric Dondarrion:
The first 1/2 living being to see the NKs Ice Dragon.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
jake.kmiech likes this
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meant to be e7 under secret discovery -hindsight44
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Pretty much everyone at Eastwatch sees it at the same time, so it's not a very exclusive group learning the information. It is more news than secret. -nyan
Beric Dondarrion: "You and I won't find much joy while we're here. But we can keep others alive. We can defend those who can't defend themselves."
Jon Snow: "I am the shield that guards the realm of men." (House Words)
Jon Snow: "I am the shield that guards the realm of men." (House Words)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
hkeseyan, kremershell, Laxis, Lem Lemoncake, 2 others like this
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These are the words of the Night's Watch oath. Now... do these still count since Jon has left the Night's Watch? -nyan
hkeseyan likes this -
First, the nigh't watch is not a "house", do you use to count those in previous seasons ?
Second I agree, Jon has left the Night's watch, anyone who occurs to know the famous quote can just say it in the proper context but I don't feel like they would deserve points for it. -emilien.raggi
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I think you can equate this to Sam saying the House Tarly words. Would those count? If so, this should also -kevinpetsky
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Night's Watch oath is in there in the rulebook.
> Night's Watch members have "dual citizenship" - they gain points for both their original House's words, and words from the Oath of the Night's Watch. -nyan
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If you account for "dual citizenship" we can't refer to sam saying the tarly word or not, because he is still a tarly and it will count either way. So for jon I would maintain that he is not in the Night's Watch anymore -emilien.raggi
nyan likes this
As the messenger tasked with running back to Eastwatch, Gendry becomes the only person not trapped on the rocky outcropping to know of the fate of the expedition.
(Secret Discovery)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
emilien.raggi likes this
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Yeah definitely @Lem I agree. That big stuff was always the intention of this category, and now we've ended up including basic things like Harrag finding Theon in the water. If we can figure out criteria to go back to the big stuff, I'm all for it. -nyan
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I think the current writing on the show won't allow us to go back to the big stuff lol -hkeseyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this -
Jon being the legit son of Rhaegar, and rightful king is probably the last unknown, right? Aside from the White Walker's purpose, which the show may not do. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this
39:38
(+3)
Beric Dondarrion:
Beric says a brief prayer for Thoros after they discover him perished in the night. "Lord of Light, show us the way. Come to us in our darkness and lead your servant into the light ... Lord of Light, come to us in our darkness. For the night is dark and full of terrors."
(House Words)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
jake.kmiech, Laxis, emilien.raggi, Lem Lemoncake, 2 others like this
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Same argument as for jon, did you already scored this for melissandre or another priestess (or even beric before? I don't recall if he already said that in previous seasons) ? -emilien.raggi
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This was added as House Words for "religious leaders", from the rulebook:
> Religious leaders (not basic worshippers) also have "dual citizenship", gaining points for their common religious phrases.
I think it could be argued Beric is not technically a priest, however he's the most ardent Lord of Light fanatic we have going now. -nyan
emilien.raggi and jedjackoway like this -
Okay I agree then, it makes sense :) -emilien.raggi
0:00
(+0)
Sansa Stark:
The knights of the Vale leave Littlefinger to die, doesn't that mean that they're pledging loyalty to Sansa?
submitted by timmyblob (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake likes this
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They could simply return the Vale and rightfully serve little Robin Arryn. Littlefinger was simply a Lord Proctetorate for him. We'll wait to see some formal pledge of alliance to Sansa. I do think it's a bit of a show inconsistency how they sidelined Robin in these later seasons - he should've been an even more off-the-rockers version of Joffrey that all the Lords of Vale have to tiptoe around, even if they had decided to follow Baelish or their own plans in the background. -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Convinced the Northern lords and his sisters that Baelish told Ned "I did warn you not to trust me" and his testimony is what sealed Baelish's fate.
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected)
emilien.raggi likes this
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I think we missed out on perhaps some secret Bran-Arya-Sansa meeting scene, or the "trial" could've been constructed in a way that the court gradually turned on Baelish. This is the breaking point for Baelish, but the court's minds seemed made up from the start. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Cersei Lannister:
Cersei betrays Jaime when she specifcally doesnt involve him (her general) in her plan to betray Dany. He implicitly trusts Cersei and she went behind his back causing him to leave for good.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: counted for betrayal for the armies she agreed to send)
Lem Lemoncake and emilien.raggi like this
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Hmm was it betrayal, or just her being petty? -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Overruling Jorah's suggestion of flying to Winterfell and riding on boat with Jon. Since Jorah's suggestion was due to him believing riding through the north was life threatening, it seems an important decision.
submitted by williamfmarr (rejected)
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I was going to suggest adding points for Jon as well for a convincing argument ? -Laxis
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Jon has the convince points here, I think it's more of that than Dany overruling everyone else. http://fantasora.com/event/3734 -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Samwell Tarly:
Convinced Bran that he should warg back in time to the secret wedding ceremony through his knowledge of the Septon's diary.
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected)
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I don't think Bran was on the fence about doing this. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Tormund Giantsbane:
The first living being to see the NKs Ice Dragon.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
Laxis likes this
[23:15]
The Hound kicks the captured wight out of the box, sending it running toward Cersei, before yanking it back with a chain. In doing so, he convinces Cersei, Euron, Qyburn, and (especially) Jaime of the immediate danger of the White Walkers
(Convincing Argument)
The Hound kicks the captured wight out of the box, sending it running toward Cersei, before yanking it back with a chain. In doing so, he convinces Cersei, Euron, Qyburn, and (especially) Jaime of the immediate danger of the White Walkers
(Convincing Argument)
submitted by jake.kmiech (rejected)
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I think all of these lose out slightly as Cersei isn't ultimately convinced to make a deal at the end (thanks Jon Snow), but then were ultimately succeeded by Tyrion doing the final convincing in his meeting. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
Act of Betrayal: Him and Cersei betraying their alliance with Dany?
submitted by williamfmarr (rejected)
emilien.raggi likes this
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If you will give betrayal points to Cersei for her decision to not fight along with the North and the Targaryens, I think Euron deserve also betrayal points lying to everybody about going back to his Island when he is really bringing back the Golden Company -emilien.raggi
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Euron doesn't make an agreement with Daenerys though, only Cersei does. He lies, but I don't think there is any trust to betray. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
Publicly commits and act of betrayal against Cersei and the cause of the living as a whole when he walks out of the pit. We learn later that this is a plan orchestrated by Cersei, but it is a betrayal in the eyes of all parties not in the know, and was an act of betrayal at the time.
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: duplicate)
40:01
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
After a private meeting with Tyrion, Cersei agrees to a truce with the Targaryen and Northern forces so that they may collectively combat the White Walker threat, completing the deal brokered by Tyrion, Jaime, and Bronn's secret meeting.
(Deals Brokered)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
40:01
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
After a private meeting with Tyrion, Cersei agrees to a truce with the Targaryen and Northern forces so that they may collectively combat the White Walker threat, completing the deal brokered by Tyrion, Jaime, and Bronn's secret meeting.
(Deals Brokered)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
After a private meeting with Tyrion, Cersei agrees to a truce with the Targaryen and Northern forces so that they may collectively combat the White Walker threat, completing the deal brokered by Tyrion, Jaime, and Bronn's secret meeting.
(Deals Brokered)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
59:13
(+3)
Bronze Yohn Royce:
Royce rejects the command of Littlefinger, dooming him to Sansa's sentence in his 'trial' at the court of Winterfell.
Petyr Baelish: "I am Lord Protector of the Vale and I command you to escort me safely back to the Eyrie."
Yohn Royce: "I think not." (Act of Betrayal)
Petyr Baelish: "I am Lord Protector of the Vale and I command you to escort me safely back to the Eyrie."
Yohn Royce: "I think not." (Act of Betrayal)
submitted by brandonthebigB (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake, jake.kmiech, nyan, emilien.raggi like this
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Thought the same the instant it happened :D -Lem Lemoncake
62:06
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Cersei declares that the Lannister armies will not be sent north to help fight the White Walkers, over Jaime's protests.
"The monsters are real. The White Walkers, the dragons, the Dothraki screamers all the frightening stories we heard when we were young, they're all real. So be it. Let the monsters kill each other. And while they battle in the North, we take back the lands that belong to us." (Executive Decision)
"The monsters are real. The White Walkers, the dragons, the Dothraki screamers all the frightening stories we heard when we were young, they're all real. So be it. Let the monsters kill each other. And while they battle in the North, we take back the lands that belong to us." (Executive Decision)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
64:12
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Cersei reneges on her promise to send her armies to fight the Army of the Dead in the north, threatening Jaime with treason for disobeying.
Jaime: "I pledged to ride north. I intend to honor that pledge."
Cersei: "And that will be treason."
Jaime: "Treason?"
Cersei: "Disobeying your queen's command, fighting with her enemies. What would you call it?"
Jaime: "Doesn't matter what I'd call it." (Act of Betrayal)
Jaime: "I pledged to ride north. I intend to honor that pledge."
Cersei: "And that will be treason."
Jaime: "Treason?"
Cersei: "Disobeying your queen's command, fighting with her enemies. What would you call it?"
Jaime: "Doesn't matter what I'd call it." (Act of Betrayal)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
emilien.raggi likes this
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I have the executive decision to Jaime, since he's going to lead the armies north against her wishes. Cersei lost out politically when he called her bluff. -nyan
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Jaime isnt leadong her armies though, it was pretty clear he defected, he wasnt in any Lannister armor and was riding by himself. The reason he left was because Cersei overruled him. Also i think Cersei has to somehow, someway get betrayal points somewhere for this episode. She played everyone! -hindsight44
nyan, emilien.raggi, Lem Lemoncake like this -
Ooh, I'll have to rewatch and do some reading, but I think you're right since it's just Jaime trotting out alone. This could definitely count for Cersei then. -nyan
emilien.raggi likes this -
Had the same impression as hindsight44. -Lem Lemoncake
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But would probably only count it as a betrayal - which in some way very often obviously is an executive decision. -Lem Lemoncake
65:27
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Jaime stands by his commitment to ride the Lannister armies north to fight, ignoring Cersei's command to let the monsters fight each other out.
"I pledged to ride north. I intend to honor that pledge." (Executive Decision)
"I pledged to ride north. I intend to honor that pledge." (Executive Decision)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
kimbo, vjdev2015, emilien.raggi like this
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Seems that I interpreted this scene completely wrong and that it's Cersei's decision that won out - he just won the bluff to leave and not be executed by Ser Gregor. -nyan
lomotan2 likes this
Insults Delivered / Funny Lines
0:00
(+0)
Jaime Lannister:
Jamie to Cersei
Jamie- The ironborn aren't good at anyone. Bitter, angry little people.
Jamie to Euron
Jamie-Your not a rightful monarch are you? Greyjoys rebelled...and as I recall you were soundly defeated
Seemed like a nice roast fest back and forth between Euron and Jamie.
Jamie- The ironborn aren't good at anyone. Bitter, angry little people.
Jamie to Euron
Jamie-Your not a rightful monarch are you? Greyjoys rebelled...and as I recall you were soundly defeated
Seemed like a nice roast fest back and forth between Euron and Jamie.
submitted by jimmy.tague (rejected: duplicate for http://fantasora.com/event/3150)
alicehanners and taylorreneegoodrich like this
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I like this, I'm going to submit the Cersei line without the Euron line. I think it's a stronger contender. -alicehanners
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The ironborn aren't good at *anything*. Bitter, angry, little people. -jimmy.tague
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
I've got two hands
submitted by k.lindsay12 (rejected: duplicate, consolidating to: http://fantasora.com/event/3116)
dneanover, xdwxrd, kremershell, ebkenn07, 7 others like this
10:45
(+3)
Tormund Giantsbane:
"Looks like we're the Night's Watch now."
(Funny Line)
submitted by alicehanners (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake, patrick.f.reeves, goodjujumagic, ericw, 9 others like this
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Oops! I suggested this without looking properly, happens at 13:09 -N1ce And Squeezy
11:31
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Jaime: "How are they better allies? How are they different from the Freys? They both broke their promises and murdered their former friends as soon as it suited them."
Cersei: "So does everyone, when it suits them. Unlike the Freys, they have ships, and they're good at killing."
Jaime: "They're not good at anything." (Witty Insult)
Cersei: "So does everyone, when it suits them. Unlike the Freys, they have ships, and they're good at killing."
Jaime: "They're not good at anything." (Witty Insult)
submitted by alicehanners (approved!)
kevinpetsky, jimmy.tague, alicehanners, taylorreneegoodrich, 2 others like this
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While a simple insult, I think the timing and directness made it particularly funny. -alicehanners
Sansa Stark: "They respect you, they really do, but you have to- Why are you laughing?"
Jon Snow: "What did father used to say? Everything before the word 'but' is horse shit." (Witty Insult)
Jon Snow: "What did father used to say? Everything before the word 'but' is horse shit." (Witty Insult)
submitted by andrei.sias (approved!)
xdwxrd, playabills, Laxis like this
19:41
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Cersei: "I'm the Queen of the 7 Kingdoms"
Jaime: "Three Kingdoms, at best." (Witty Insult)
Jaime: "Three Kingdoms, at best." (Witty Insult)
submitted by kevinpetsky (approved!)
kimbo, alicehanners, talindsey, jetiggs, 8 others like this
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I laughed at this, I agree it should count. -alicehanners
24:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
Jaime: "The people I was cutting down were your own kin."
Euron: "The place was getting crowded." (Funny Line)
Euron: "The place was getting crowded." (Funny Line)
submitted by hsackman2146 (approved!)
ericw, talindsey, goodjujumagic, alicehanners, 6 others like this
25:39
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
When he said to Jamie and Cersei, ".... with two good hands." Making a joke of Jamie having lost one his hands.
(Witty Insult)
submitted by Th3 JaBBeRWoCK (approved!)
nyan, tommyjames81, xdwxrd, alicehanners, 10 others like this
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oh i thought references to jaime's loss of hand would count towards his special as well but mixed him up with theon there. i don't know if it should count as an incest referral - euron only stated the many ways in which he is superior to jaime. obviously he did this because everyone knows that jaime was/is cersei's lover and euron wants to replace him.
however, i don't feel like the incest implication is strong enough in this one :/
also: euron talks a whole deal about hands and basically repeats the same joke over and over again. his references become so obvious that they are not even that funny anymore but are more like a "hi i am better than jaime :>" - don't know how often these should be counted.
gotta admit that i am biased though as i am up against a euron-team this round and only a few points ahead :D -Lem Lemoncake
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ah please give me an edit option for bad english :D -Lem Lemoncake
nyan likes this -
Cersei should get special points for this too. One of her specials is someone referencing incest with Jaime in front of her. -hindsight44
jedjackoway, megan.m.rabuse, adamjfallon like this
34:54
(+3)
Sansa Stark:
"No need to seize the last word, Lord Baelish. I'll assume it was something clever."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by xdwxrd (approved!)
xdwxrd, alicehanners, Lem Lemoncake, eph630, 12 others like this
to Thoros: "I'll tell you what doesn't scare me: bald cocksuckers like you. You think you're fooling anyone with that top knot?"
(Witty Insult)
submitted by tylermanhart (approved!)
xdwxrd, talindsey, paolarodelas, cari, 12 others like this
-
"You think you're foolin anyone with that top knot?" to Thoros -jshragie
tommyjames81 likes this
0:00
(+3)
Arya Stark:
Hot Pie: "You've been making pies?"
Arya: "One or two." (in reference to her Frey pies) (Funny Line)
Arya: "One or two." (in reference to her Frey pies) (Funny Line)
submitted by ssantise (approved!)
julian.aronowitz, bookworm13457, emilien.raggi, shannonferretti, 10 others like this
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Not funny -brad.mckimens
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Did you not understand the reference? Or are you just a Frey Loyalist? -ssantise
-
Can someone help me with trades it's not letting me accept reject or counter them. At all. -talindsey
0:00
(+0)
Tyrion Lannister:
Tyrion should get points for the jab at Ellaria in the map room. "I know how you wage war. We don't poison little girls" Sorry this may not be exact but it's directed right at Ellaria.
submitted by ssleppy (rejected: not quite enough support and not quite that good of a line)
csepulveda2885 and alicehanners like this
0:00
(+3)
Daenerys Targaryen:
on Melisandre's arrival to Dragonstone, after Varys protests that she had served Stannis Baratheon: "You chose an auspicious day to arrive at Dragonstone. We've just decided to pardon those who once served the wrong King."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by kimberly.ramia (approved!)
bookworm13457, emilien.raggi, paolarodelas, andrei.sias, 2 others like this
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I didn't think this line was particularly humorous. I will say that it was well said or creative but according to the rulebook only insults and threats get points for this. Since this quote was neither, it should only get points for being funny, which it is not. -ssantise
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I'll grant it, I didn't think it was humorous, but it is partway to an insult as a way of shutting down Varys' objections and reminding him of his sorta-hypocrisy. -nyan
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This is true, i didnt take into account that Varys was in the room when she said this and even though she was speaking to Melisandre, the jab was directed a Varys. -ssantise
0:00
(+3)
Davos Seaworth:
Davos' comments on the letter from Tyrion: "Sounds like a charmer. Casual mention of a Dothraki horde, a legion of Unsullied, and 3 dragons - a bit less charming."
(Funny Line)
submitted by pacelli929 (approved!)
hkeseyan, allain.benjamin, csepulveda2885, hindsight44, 2 others like this
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Dry humor at its best very good stuff -csepulveda2885
23:58 "Then how do you mean to take the Iron Throne? By asking nicely?"
submitted by kakozbia (rejected: just falls a little short of the bar)
"I've known a great many clever men. I've outlived them all. You know why? I ignored them."
"The lords of Westeros are sheep. Are you a sheep? No, you're a dragon. Be a dragon."
"The lords of Westeros are sheep. Are you a sheep? No, you're a dragon. Be a dragon."
submitted by kakozbia (rejected)
-
Doesn't quite fit into the category, but perhaps we ought to have one for "motivational speeches" and the like. Usually these get rewarded with convincing arguments, though we've yet to see anything come out of this conversation so far. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Yara Greyjoy:
When her and Ellaria are flirting and teasing Theon before being attacked. " Oh No there's about to be a foreign invasion" Ellaria reaches for yara and then Boom.
submitted by wdgannon42 (rejected: line came from Ellaria)
pacelli929, shannonferretti, Woodez like this
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And her facial expression when Ellaria invites Theon to join, "sorry not sorry" - absolutely priceless. -pacelli929
shannonferretti likes this -
Does Yara have an actual line in this scene? The foreign invasion one is from Ellaria. -nyan
lomotan2 and tommyjames81 like this -
"after they've made their intentions clear" along with other thinly-veiled advances -pacelli929
After treating Arya to a nice meal and catching up with recent events, Hot Pie finally makes his move:
"Can't believe I thought you were a boy... You're pretty!"
"Can't believe I thought you were a boy... You're pretty!"
submitted by EvanWolfe (rejected: not quite enough support)
andrei.sias, emilien.raggi, kimbo like this
0:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron taunts Theon into fleeing the battle as he holds Yara captive: "Ah come on, you cockless coward. I have her. Come and get her."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
kremershell, lomotan2, csepulveda2885 like this
0:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron sarcastically and disparagingly to Yara as he approaches her to cut her down: "Give your uncle a kiss"
(Witty Insult)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
kremershell, emilien.raggi, lomotan2, csepulveda2885, 3 others like this
0:00
(+3)
Randyll Tarly:
"I'm a Tarly. That name means something. We're not oathbreakers. We're not schemers. We don't stab our rivals in the back or cut their throats at weddings."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by peggypcwu (approved!)
jedjackoway, alicehanners, Nick, nickcota like this
0:00
(+3)
Archmaester Ebrose:
Samwell Tarly: "I met Stannis Baratheon's daughter at Castle Black. She had the Greyscale as a baby and was cured."
Archmaester Ebrose: "No."
Samwell: "Isn't there some way..."
Ebrose: "Does this look like a baby to you?" (referencing their patient, Jorah Mormont)
Samwell: "No."
Ebrose: "Have you studied the varying rates of greyscale progression in infants and fully grown men?"
Samwell: "No." (Funny Line)
Archmaester Ebrose: "No."
Samwell: "Isn't there some way..."
Ebrose: "Does this look like a baby to you?" (referencing their patient, Jorah Mormont)
Samwell: "No."
Ebrose: "Have you studied the varying rates of greyscale progression in infants and fully grown men?"
Samwell: "No." (Funny Line)
submitted by pacelli929 (approved!)
hkeseyan, kremershell, as38, patrick.f.reeves, 4 others like this
6:57
(+3)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Daenerys: "And I swear this: if you ever betray me, I'll burn you alive."
(Threat)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
shannonferretti, talindsey, Th3 JaBBeRWoCK like this
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Pre-empting the submission for this. The Insults/Funny category was created to award characters with great lines. To me this is a classic example of a line that's literally a threat, but without any kind of creativity or fun wordplay added to it, and shouldn't qualify for scoring. -nyan
tbaum9842, goodjujumagic, ssantise, julian.aronowitz, 3 others like this
Arya: "Take care of yourself, Hot Pie. Try not to get killed"
Hot Pie: "I won't. I'm like you 'Arry. I'm a survivor." (Funny Line)
Hot Pie: "I won't. I'm like you 'Arry. I'm a survivor." (Funny Line)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
talindsey, jgiuliano, emilien.raggi like this
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Pedantic note, Arry is the name she gave, it's not short for Harry or anything.
-alicehanners
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Are we arguing this is funny because he is a doof who might die?
This seems pretty loose. -jedjackoway
bookworm13457 and ssantise like this -
Not particularly funny -hkeseyan
to Littlefinger: "Talk to my sister, and I'll kill you myself."
(Threat)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
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Similar as Daenerys' above line. While a threat, the wording of the line itself is very plain-spoken, and doesn't fit in with the insults/funny lines category. -nyan
tbaum9842, ssantise, bookworm13457, hkeseyan like this
0:00
(+0)
Tyrion Lannister:
submitted by ssleppy (rejected: duplicate: http://fantasora.com/event/3312)
golub.jake and megan.m.rabuse like this
0:00
(+0)
Tyrion Lannister:
While Davos is explaining how he almost took King's Landing without dragons, Tyrion reminds Davos who won the battle with a perfectly-timed genius comeback: "Almost."
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: not high enough quality)
xdwxrd likes this
0:00
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
calling back to Bronn's quote about the Eyrie: "Give me ten good men, and I'll impregnate the bitch"
(Funny Line)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
emilien.raggi, julian.aronowitz, xdwxrd like this
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A lot of good callbacks to old lines this season, especially classic S1 stuff =] -nyan
hkeseyan and ssleppy like this
submitted by xdwxrd (rejected: a little below the threshold)
kremershell, kimbo, xdwxrd like this
Daenerys doesn't believe Jons White Walker story. Irritated he informs her "Youll be ruling over a graveyard"
submitted by xdwxrd (rejected)
hkeseyan and xdwxrd like this
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This was a great comeback after the threats Dany made -hkeseyan
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Daenerys: "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms, and I will."
Jon: "You'll be ruling over a graveyard if we don't defeat the Night King."
I'm feeling like it's a serviceable comeback because it's the truth known to us viewers. As Tyrion mentions, most of what Jon says to Daenerys sounds like fairytales about grumpkins because it sounds incredulous and he has no evidence to back any of it up. From the viewpoint of everyone on Team Dany in the throne room, it seems like a crazed, desperate plea and not at all like a good comeback. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Samwell Tarly:
Sam states to archmaester ebrose when questionses how he saved/healed jorah:
Ebrose: "How did you do it?"
Sam: "well I read the book, and followed the instructions."
Ebrose: "How did you do it?"
Sam: "well I read the book, and followed the instructions."
submitted by playabills (rejected)
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I laughed when I heard this. Sam is so simplistically a genius sometimes -playabills
0:00
(+0)
Davos Seaworth:
submitted by xdwxrd (rejected)
csepulveda2885 likes this
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This is a very serious attempt to persuade Team Dany of the dangers looming. What category is this even trying to be scored in? -jedjackoway
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I thought it was funny. -xdwxrd
0:00
(+0)
Davos Seaworth:
Davos exhibits smooth self-deprecating and dark humor when referring to his own defeat in Season 2
Tyrion: "We fought on opposite sides at the Battle for Blackwater Bay"
Davos: "Unluckily for me"
Tyrion: "We fought on opposite sides at the Battle for Blackwater Bay"
Davos: "Unluckily for me"
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: not quite there quality-wise)
xdwxrd likes this
0:00
(+0)
Davos Seaworth:
Daenerys asks if Davos has his facts wrong about Torrhen Stark's pledge three centuries ago. Davos responds with a snide and witty comeback: "I wasn't there, your grace."
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: not quite there quality-wise)
xdwxrd likes this
0:00
(+0)
Davos Seaworth:
Davos has had enough of Daenerys parading around as if she is the only one in the room with impressive accomplishments and a destiny to lead. He exhibits massive cojones and responds back to the Dragon Queen with an epic comeback, bringing up Jon Snow's credentials to counter Daenerys's:
"...but if destiny has brought Daenerys Targeryen back to our shores, it has also made Jon Snow King in the North... he is the first to make allies of Wildlings and Northmen ... not because of his birthright, he has no birthright, he's a damn bastard ... all those hard sons of bitches chose him as a leader ... he took a knife in the heart for his people ... if we don't put aside our enmities and band together, we will die, and then it doesn't matter whose skeleton sits on the Iron Throne"
"...but if destiny has brought Daenerys Targeryen back to our shores, it has also made Jon Snow King in the North... he is the first to make allies of Wildlings and Northmen ... not because of his birthright, he has no birthright, he's a damn bastard ... all those hard sons of bitches chose him as a leader ... he took a knife in the heart for his people ... if we don't put aside our enmities and band together, we will die, and then it doesn't matter whose skeleton sits on the Iron Throne"
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected)
xdwxrd likes this
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Hmmm this is making me reevaluate the "comeback" category. This is a good *counterargument*, I'm not sure that it's a witty comeback. It works because it's a logically solid response that Jon Snow has credentials too, but these kinds of responses occur all the time whenever two characters are having a debate. A comeback doesn't need to work logically, it's about a good play on wording in response to the original statement. Think about a rap battle, the lines that get the cheers and "ooh what a burn" responses often don't make any sense at all (my mother could not be that fat, your scenario violates the physical laws of the universe and would be utterly ridiculous), but still work because of the way the line is delivered or the creative wording in it. -nyan
hkeseyan likes this -
By your definition of a comeback then I think the "I wasn't there, your grace" lines fits very well. This response a little less so, but in the context of a rap battle, Davos's response here is at the quality of like an entire diss track. He's had enough of Dany parading around and basically just goes off on her, I think it deserved recognition, even if it has one foot outside the rule category. Anyway, Davos had an epic episode of great lines, Tyrion and Olenna level epic, and I think he should've got more credit, but you've been scoring these good lines much longer than anyone else -hkeseyan
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Yeahh, it is a little tiring to be honest for the threads and submissions that stretch out for almost the whole week, and ultimately I'm not very satisfied that the subjective line gets unilaterally decided by me. It seems any given week we're getting agreement on 80% of the lines (similar for politics category) and we end up having long debates for people coming from different perspectives. I'd really like to come up with a more automated voting system, and just hand it off to community consensus (all lines with 67% approval rate are added in as insulting/funny). -nyan
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I felt it would be very tiring for you specifically in this category. We can have submissions include a link to a strawpoll, quick and easy. The only bad thing is if people get greedy and vote things down for competitive reasons because there are more people that don't own a charcter rather than own them. But I think we have a pretty honest player base here don't you think? -hkeseyan
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Yeah, that would make sense, especially for the insults/funny category. Basically on me to implement it, but sadly I'm still on travel/backcountry hiking for the next few weeks so I'm barely having enough time to finish the scoring, much less the big feature-building. Alas, the late-season start coincided with a big chunk of the summer travels I had planned this year. -nyan
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I suppose if there are contentious ones that pop up, I can just start off with the "Like this comment if..." voting system for now. It's a better way to measure support vs dissent, since the current system relies on Likes vs. Protest comments which mean different things to differnet people. -nyan
0:00
(+3)
Melisandre:
to Varys: "I will return, dear Spider, one last time. I have to die in this strange country... just like you."
(Threat)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
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Tyrion refers to himself as an imp quite a few times, doesn't make it any less insulting. Being referred to as a "spider" regardless if he personally uses it does not change the negative connotations around being referred to as a spider.
I think Melissandre's line was both eloquent and masterfully stated. First she calmly patronizes him as her "Dear Spider", in direct response to his threat (which is almost enough of insult for points alone). Then she cleverly follows this by referring to Westeroes as "this strange land". Finally she finishes of her beautiful line by returning the threat to Varys, that they both must die here. If she wanted to be dull and undeserving of points she would have just said "Varys you're gonna die in Westeroes." but she didn't. -ssantise
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i think it was a great line and a threatening one. not an insult though. i'm not denying she should get points for the line at all; i agree she should get points for it being ominous and threatening, but not that it's an insult. that's all :) -ssleppy
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I think context is what makes this a threat. Varys directly threatens her right before she says this. Before Varys threatened her she was passive and very open with Varys. This 180 attitude was to respond a threat with another threat. We have no evidence or proof to show this was definitvley from the flames, have Mel even interepted flames since Stannis?
Also this isnt a plain direct threat like Dany saying" Betray me and i will burn you alive." If there was no wit or innuendo Mel would have simply said "Varys you will die in Westeroes." But she did use wit.If you read between the lines what she meant by this was we are equals. Mel knows Varys hates magic and all who follow it, he has a very elitist and arrogant attitude when dealing with Magical entities (specifically priests of Rhollor). So when she says 'i will die here just like you.' she is saying get off your high horse you are no better than me, this country will claim both of us . Id say that is threatening and witty enough to warrant points. -hindsight44
nyan likes this
on Cersei: "She's a disease, I regret my role in spreading it. You will too."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)
Laxis likes this
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Precedence for insults about someone not in the room: Season 6, Episode 6 Jaime got insult points for calling Walder Frey 400 years old when he wasn't in the room, and Season 6, Episode 3 Smalljon Umber got insult points for calling Ramsay's dead father a cunt. -megan.m.rabuse
nyan likes this -
Yeah we'll allow insulting statements to people not there, lots of examples for that. The only category with the "in a character's presence" criteria is for the Special references like Brienne's beauty or Jon's bastardy. -nyan
on Joffrey Baratheon: "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?"
(Funny Line)
submitted by megan.m.rabuse (approved!)
hkeseyan, jedjackoway, Laxis, emilien.raggi, 2 others like this
Insulting Cersei to Jaime "Your sister has done things I wasn't capable of imagining. That was my prize mistake, a failure of imagination. She's a monster, you do know that? You love her, you really do love her. She'll be the end of you."
submitted by megan.m.rabuse (rejected: quality)
hkeseyan and xdwxrd like this
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The "she's a monster" is a little too plain, I think. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
There has to be some points for Euron when he arrived in the throne room, probably the most entertaining scene of the episode. Including the references and taunts aimed at Jaime.
submitted by xdwxrd (rejected: considering the specific line submissions individually)
golub.jake likes this
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Euron gets a handful of points for this scene, 3x for his new specials (Cersei calls him the "greatest" captain, plus the sexual remarks to Jaime and Yara), the "severed heads" comment, and getting appointed as head of the royal navy. -nyan
emilien.raggi and xdwxrd like this -
No funny lines though? The convo with jamie -golub.jake
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@golub.jake I submitted some insults/funny comments, check them out -hkeseyan
nyan and xdwxrd like this
0:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
to Yara, mocking Theon's reaction during their battle on her ship: "*Ohhh noooo!* What a twat."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
xdwxrd, kremershell, Th3 JaBBeRWoCK like this
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Normally the simple name-calling isn't enough to make a good line ("what a twat."), but I think the "Ohhh noooo" mocking Theon's reaction is good enough to qualify it. -nyan
hkeseyan likes this
0:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
to Jaime: "There's nothing like it is there, the love of the people ... but I suppose you wouldn't know".
(Witty Insult)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
kremershell, xdwxrd, Th3 JaBBeRWoCK, talindsey like this
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Original submission by @hkeseyan:
A deep cut as Jaime has been one of the most handsome and richest men in Westeros, one of the greatest swordsmen ever, the heir to Casterly Rock, the brother of the Queen, uncredited father of two former kings and a princess, the lead commander of the Crown's army.... and yet he has never had the love of the people to the extent that Euron now has. -nyan
Daenerys Targaryen: "Did you see three dragons flying overhead when you arrived? ... and did you see the Dothraki, all of whom have sworn to kill for me?"
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)
Jon: "They're hard to miss." (Funny Line)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
WampaLord, xdwxrd, mary.d.piccione, kremershell, 4 others like this
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Yeah, I've been critical about "funny lines" before and still feel like too many statements are counted as funny lines. I understand why people think it might be funny but it's not a joke-line, is it? Some understatement maybe, but basically he just shows a little self consciousness by not simply nodding to everything Dany says but adding a few more words. -Lem Lemoncake
nyan likes this -
This is under the threshhold for me -hkeseyan
nyan likes this -
Moved into submissions! Generally I'm with you guys that the bar should be higher, but I've also been lowering it a bit since the general consensus each week seems to be that I judge the lines too harshly and am always omitting submissions. So I'll take any opportunity to uncount a line ?.
I will say that I think the overall quality of lines in the show has dropped considerably ever since they ran out of book material (S4 or 5). So accepting some worse lines may end up being necessity as the typical Game-of-Thronesey insult line becomes tamer. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this -
Thought it was funny. Sarcasm is the best form of comedy, yeh? -xdwxrd
mary.d.piccione, nyan, WampaLord like this -
Seems to be okay support for this, along with the opposition. And with the other lines from Davos/Jon/Tyrion currently in the queue, I think this one is definitely at the same level or higher. -nyan
13:54
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
Daenerys Targaryen: "In the time since he's met me, he's refused to call me Queen, he's refused to bow, and now he's calling me a child."
Tyrion: "I believe he's calling all of us children. Figure of speech." (Funny Line)
Tyrion: "I believe he's calling all of us children. Figure of speech." (Funny Line)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
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Dwarfsplaining = funny? He's really just pointing out the obvious to relax the situation. -Lem Lemoncake
kimbo, TwistPickle, taylorreneegoodrich, BurnIn7Hells, Site, 4 others like this -
I have tyrion, but I wouldn't consider this a funny line -tommyjames81
Lem Lemoncake, kimbo, TwistPickle, taylorreneegoodrich, 3 others like this -
Tyrion is on my team, and even I think this is below the bar. -alicehanners
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Tyrion definitely, taking a hit this episode, we're down to -6 in the adjustments. -nyan
24:08
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
to Jaime: "Does she like it gentle, or rough? A finger in the bum? Shh, shh, shh, shh, not now. We'll talk later."
(Funny Line)
submitted by jbornstein89 (approved!)
golub.jake, hkeseyan, kremershell, emilien.raggi, 4 others like this
34:02
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
Jon Snow: "I'm a prisoner on this island."
Tyrion: "I wouldn't say you're a prisoner on this island. You're free to walk the castle, the beaches, to go wherever you want." (Funny Line)
Tyrion: "I wouldn't say you're a prisoner on this island. You're free to walk the castle, the beaches, to go wherever you want." (Funny Line)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
hkeseyan likes this
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my account won't allow me to accept or reject trades. help? -talindsey
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I thought this was one of Tyrion's trademark lines where someone says something serious and he deflects with sarcasm, but 4 dissents is a pretty strong consensus, moving to rejection pile. -nyan
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@talindsey send a message to the FB page and will try to help you out? -nyan
38:14
(+3)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Daenerys catches Tyrion in one of his signature made-up proverbs and calls him out:
Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?" (Funny Line)
Tyrion: "I'd very much like to believe that Jon Snow is wrong. But a wise man once said that you should never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it."
Daenerys: "Which wise man said this?"
Tyrion: "I don't remember."
Daenerys: "Are you trying to present your own statements as ancient wisdom?" (Funny Line)
submitted by jedjackoway (approved!)
nyan, shannonferretti, megan.m.rabuse, emilien.raggi, 6 others like this
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Submitting as a funny line, to be clear. -jedjackoway
shannonferretti, alexanderdropkin, Lem Lemoncake like this
38:53
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
to Daenerys: "Let him mine the Dragonglass. If he's wrong, it's worthless. You didn't even know it was here."
(Funny Line)
submitted by nyan (rejected: resolved secrets discussion. And I guess this wasn't funny.)
julian.aronowitz likes this
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Ebrose's value shouldn't have changed if people knew he had a special. Everyone should be aware that specials can be introduced, especially for new characters we haven't gotten to know well yet. Many characters that didn't have a special had a line that said they might have a special introduced after the character appears (I know Euron had it for sure), I didn't see it on Ebrose but do we have to place it on every character for us to realize that specials can be added for characters after we get to know them better? I for one drafted Ebrose over some characters that have received much screentime throughout the seasons, I took that risk with the hopes that a special would be added (it's an Archmaester at the Citadel after all - I didn't draft the guy expecting him to kill mass amounts of people or have a lot of sex). Either way, if a special was assigned to him before the draft, you would have absolutely no information either way that would make you certain that the special would give a lot of points, because you have no screentime to go off. -hkeseyan
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That was partially my bad for Ebrose. In all the seasons before this I had a disclaimer that "Special to be added after character appearance" note appended to new characters (and you could see the leftover ones on chars like Euron). This year I stopped doing that and just decided to have the general approach that Specials would be fluid and could change for every character at any time, so I stopped adding the disclaimer for every character. -nyan
-
Alrighty, wrapping this conversation up. The Secret Discoveries will be changed officially, keeping points 1-3 from above:
1. The information must be rare - the character(s) must be in an exclusive group that is the first to find out about the information, aside from the secret holder(s) A decent measure for whether a group is "exclusive" - does the group have the political power to enforce that the secret does not leak outside of the group, if they wish?
2. The information must be useful - it affects the decision-making or actions of characters.
3. The information must be specific and concrete - it consists of hard facts, rather than vague prophecies or opinions.
The previous "can't be willfully told by person guarding the secret" condition is dropped.
For the can-of-worms that @ssanstise mentioned, we'll leave out criteria #4 (info is currently "actionable"). So in the prisoner or deathbed scenario, the characters will still get the points.
Full text (mainly with the added precedents we've discussed) have been added here: http://fantasora.com/rulebook
Sorry to @hindsight44 and I'm sure many others who will dislike, but this will be retroactive to all S7 scoring, going back to S7E1. FWIW I'm going through some other possible implementations to try and give satisfactory options for everyone, namely giving a two-ruleset choice on league creation (you can pick the strict no-changes Ruleset, or the arbitrary-changes-where-you-might-be-screwed-over-by-the-admin-but-thats-part-of-the-game Ruleset), and an additionally a super-customizable league-specific points option.
This would be a gateway to players running their own scoring systems (e.g. the speaking-lines category that @alicehanners wants to run), and you could use it to counteract rulings in the default scoring that you didn't like. -nyan
hindsight44 likes this
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Arya: Why would a cutthroat have a Valyrian steel dagger?
Bran:Someone very wealthy wanted me dead.
Considering he knows what happened already there is wit to this statement. Also humor even though his comedic skills are on par with Amy Schumer.
Bran:Someone very wealthy wanted me dead.
Considering he knows what happened already there is wit to this statement. Also humor even though his comedic skills are on par with Amy Schumer.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: not quite a lot of support)
talindsey likes this
-
Meant to be Bran -hindsight44
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Bran gives Meera a simple "Thank You" for her service. A brutal insult to Meera when considering the sacrificies she and her family made for Bran.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
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typical BRAN9000 move.. "they see me rollin', they hatin'" :| -Lem Lemoncake
nyan and hindsight44 like this -
with which I wanna say: not really an insult, is it? -Lem Lemoncake
0:00
(+3)
Bran Stark:
Bran interrupts Littlefinger's meddling mind games as soon as Littlefinger mentions chaos with a comeback that leaves Littlefinger speechless and his underpants soiled: "Chaos is a ladder"
(Threat)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
jedjackoway and kremershell like this
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this should be politics, maybe "discovery of secret", Bran is one of the few people who seemingly know about Littlefinger's world view and attitude, which gives him leverage -Ser Vincent
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I don't like this as politics. At this point, Bran knows literal everything and we can't reasonable give him secret points for every secret we can think of.
I do, however, think this is a clear threat, and a badass one at that. -jedjackoway
hkeseyan, nyan, alicehanners, as38 like this
0:00
(+0)
Meera Reed:
'You died in that cave'. Meera insults Brans lack of empathy.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
alicehanners likes this
Jaime to Bronn: Besides think of the upkeep, the more you own the more it weighs you down.
Bronn To Jaime: Is that why you're so glum eh? All your new riches weighing you down? (Witty Insult)
Bronn To Jaime: Is that why you're so glum eh? All your new riches weighing you down? (Witty Insult)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
Ser Vincent, xdwxrd, alicehanners, jimmy.tague like this
Bronn laughs at Dickon's name. Both funny and an insult.
submitted by timmyblob (rejected)
hindsight44 and Ser Vincent like this
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I was thinking about giving this but there's no "line" from Bronn. I gave it to Dickon since he sort of provides the humor material for the scene (like many of Sam's funny lines). -nyan
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But why isn't it an Insult? -timmyblob
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For insults and threats in this category it's about the quality/wit of the line, rather than how literally insulting it is. Think about a rap battle and your favorite lines from it - it's the creative wordplay that people celebrate, not just a straight up "You're ugly." insult.
Laughing at someone's name is insulting, but it's not a "witty insult". -nyan
to Arya: "Look, its cold and we're busy. So you know... best fuck off."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
davidbburman, alicehanners, as38 like this
32:19
(+3)
Davos Seaworth:
Davos corrects Jon's grammar with a classic callback from his former King, Stannis Baratheon:
Jon Snow: "How many men do we have in the North to fight him? 10,000? Less?"
Davos: "Fewer."
Jon: "What?" (Funny Line)
Jon Snow: "How many men do we have in the North to fight him? 10,000? Less?"
Davos: "Fewer."
Jon: "What?" (Funny Line)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
jedjackoway, csepulveda2885, righteous like this
33:58
(+3)
Davos Seaworth:
Missandei: "All of us who came with her from Essos, we believe in her. She's not our Queen because she's the daughter of some king we never knew. She's the Queen we chose."
Davos, to Jon Snow: "Will you forgive me if I switch sides?" (Funny Line)
Davos, to Jon Snow: "Will you forgive me if I switch sides?" (Funny Line)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
playabills, nyan, csepulveda2885, alicehanners, 2 others like this
36:44
(+3)
Dickon Tarly:
Dickon: "Ser Jaime."
Jaime: "Rickon."
Dickon: "...Dickon."
Bronn: ??? (Funny Line)
Jaime: "Rickon."
Dickon: "...Dickon."
Bronn: ??? (Funny Line)
submitted by kevinpetsky (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake, alicehanners, jimmy.tague, angelsboy96 like this
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:D don't know if intended though.. but then again, considering the buddy movie comedy that just always happens as soon as Bronn and Jaime meet, Jaime could have asked intentionally to let Bronn participate in the fun he has with the poor boy's name. -Lem Lemoncake
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I was thinking this line should be scored one way or another because it is either a funny line to get bronn in on the joke or an insult as it is disrespecting Dickon's name -angelsboy96
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Agreed! Would count as funny line. -dlapato
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Its been a few days. I was hoping to see a decision on this as my match up practically hangs in the balance based on this! -angelsboy96
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Note: original submission was to score this for Jaime.
There may be some conflation of this with his previous Rickon greeting, which was scored as an insult for Jaime (http://fantasora.com/event/3172). In this episode his line is just a straight greeting response of "Rickon." After Bronn starts laughing he even shoots him a "stop that" glance (http://imgur.com/NokTrxC)
I awarded the funny line points to Dickon. Like the Missandei/Daenerys "many things" dialogue, the whole exchange is needed to make the scene funny, but it doesn't turn into a funny scene until Dickon corrects him with his ridiculous name and then Bronn laughing in his face. Bronn would perhaps have gotten credit if he responded back with any kind of line, but alas he just laughed. -nyan
to Tyrion, as the battle becomes a rout for the Lannisters: "You're people can't fight."
(Witty Insult)
submitted by garretgill (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake, alicehanners, jimmy.tague, Ser Vincent, 2 others like this
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IMO a little plainspoken, but perhaps there is some Dothraki tonal nuance we miss. Seems to be broad support so I've added it. -nyan
24:16
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
Tyrion: "Who's that (raven letter) for?"
Varys: "Jon Snow."
Tyrion: "Did you read it?"
Varys: "It's a sealed scroll for the King in the North."
...
Tyrion: "What's it say?" (Funny Line)
Varys: "Jon Snow."
Tyrion: "Did you read it?"
Varys: "It's a sealed scroll for the King in the North."
...
Tyrion: "What's it say?" (Funny Line)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
42:16
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Cersei: "Do you remember what Father used to say about people?"
Jaime: "The lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep."
Cersei: "Never betray me again." (Threat)
Jaime: "The lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep."
Cersei: "Never betray me again." (Threat)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
emilien.raggi and shannonferretti like this
47:58
(+3)
Samwell Tarly:
Sam goes on a rant to Gilly about the order of Maesters: "We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!"
(Witty Insult)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
nyan, vjdev2015, kimbo, playabills like this
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He does put quite the flourish into this rant. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Tormund Giantsbane:
Sandor Clegane: "I could not give two shits about Wildlings. Gingers, I hate."
Tormund: "Gingers are beautiful. Kissed by fire, - just like you"
(Comeback)
Tormund: "Gingers are beautiful. Kissed by fire, - just like you"
(Comeback)
submitted by iamjodiehuang (rejected: counted already as a funny line)
emilien.raggi likes this
5:06
(+3)
Tormund Giantsbane:
Jon Snow: "She will only fight beside us if I bend the knee."
Tormund: "You spent too much time with the Free Folk. Now you don't like kneeling." (Witty Insult)
Tormund: "You spent too much time with the Free Folk. Now you don't like kneeling." (Witty Insult)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
Laxis, emilien.raggi, iamjodiehuang like this
16:29
(+3)
Tormund Giantsbane:
Tormund: "I want to make babies with her - think of them. Great big monsters. They'd conquer the world."
(Funny Line)
submitted by Laxis (approved!)
emilien.raggi, kimbo, iamjodiehuang like this
0:00
(+0)
Sansa Stark:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21151695_1536751383052312_875093819783583835_n.jpg?oh=0f6ef91d99c680457e6b606fd56b6659&oe=5A56F7C1
submitted by tommywaffles18 (rejected)
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Arya to Sansa: I never could have survied whay you survived
Sansa: you would have, you're the strongest person i know
Arya: I believe thats the nicest thing you have ever said to me
Sansa: well dont get used to it you're still very annoying and annoying
-tommywaffles18
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A little cutesy, I think a better fit for this "warm, fuzzy moment" category. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Theon Greyjoy:
Tyrion:"What did i tell you about dwaef jokes?"
Theon:"His arent event good."
Referring to Euron
Theon:"His arent event good."
Referring to Euron
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: sorry Theon, your insult wasn't even good either)
hkeseyan and emilien.raggi like this
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I considered this one but thought this was the epitome of plain-spoken insults. Theon didn't have an actual comeback to it, a better burn to shoot back to Euron, all he could muster was, "Euron, your dwarf joke "*wasn't even good*". I thought it was lame writing emblematic of S7, where GRRM surely would've given us a delightful diss at Euron. -nyan
5:04
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Bronn and Jaime discuss the Unsullied army standing outside the gates of King's Landing.
Bronn: "Men without cocks. You wouldn't find me fighting in an army if I had no cock. What's left to fight for?"
Jaime: "Gold?"
Bronn: "I spent my life around soldiers. What do you think they spend that gold on?"
Jaime: "Family."
Bronn: "Not without a cock, you don't."
Jaime: "Maybe it really is all cocks in the end" (Funny Line)
Bronn: "Men without cocks. You wouldn't find me fighting in an army if I had no cock. What's left to fight for?"
Jaime: "Gold?"
Bronn: "I spent my life around soldiers. What do you think they spend that gold on?"
Jaime: "Family."
Bronn: "Not without a cock, you don't."
Jaime: "Maybe it really is all cocks in the end" (Funny Line)
submitted by kevinpetsky (approved!)
emilien.raggi and nyan like this
7:44
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
briefing Gregor Clegane in Jaime's presence: "If anything goes wrong, kill the silver-haired bitch first, then our brother, then the bastard who calls himself King. The rest of them you can kill in any order you see fit."
(Threat)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
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Original submission by @hindsight44: "When speaking to Gregor pre metting she says kill Dany then Jon then after that kill anyone how he sees fit. then ends that brutal line with ".........come Ser Gregor lets meet our guests." It was so brutal Jaime was clearly shocked by it." -nyan
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I hadn't considered it as a threat to Jaime, but given their just-completed conversation it definitely has that tone. "I know you like our brother, but this is what will happen to people who cross me. Don't cross me." -nyan
Tyrion Lannister: "Are you? Helping me to arrange this meeting wasn't exactly looking after yourself, was it? You put yourself at risk."
Bronn: "I put yourself at risk. Important difference. It's your head Queen Cersei's offered a bag of gold for, it's not mine. Now, thanks to me, she's got two traitors' heads coming right through her door. She can lop them both off as soon as she gets tired of the clever words that pour out their pieholes. All thanks to Ser Bronn of the fucking Blackwater. If that's not looking after myself, I don't know what is." (Threat)
Bronn: "I put yourself at risk. Important difference. It's your head Queen Cersei's offered a bag of gold for, it's not mine. Now, thanks to me, she's got two traitors' heads coming right through her door. She can lop them both off as soon as she gets tired of the clever words that pour out their pieholes. All thanks to Ser Bronn of the fucking Blackwater. If that's not looking after myself, I don't know what is." (Threat)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
nyan likes this
25:59
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Daenerys: "Just the King in the North? Not me?"
Cersei: "I would never ask it of you. You would never agree to it. And if you did, I would trust you even less than I do now." (Witty Insult)
Cersei: "I would never ask it of you. You would never agree to it. And if you did, I would trust you even less than I do now." (Witty Insult)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
emilien.raggi likes this
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Sort of a diss at how Daenerys is simply feigning benevolence, and that she knows she's still after her crown at the end. -nyan
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Does this follow into the "would-be usurper"line? I thought that was a dorect insult. -hindsight44
Glasses of Wine Consumed
0:00
(+0)
Thoros of Myr:
As they're approaching this house Thoros is clearly raising the jug to take a drink on the right side of the screen.
submitted by tylermanhart (rejected: just misses out on being an on-screen drink)
colin.oloughlin, ericw, tylermanhart, povsky, 2 others like this
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Was really surprised this wasn't counted. -colin.oloughlin
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I think this is the scene you guys are pointing out: http://imgur.com/a/ZNxLA
So we have some specific criteria on what counts as a drink, from previous scenes where characters would play around with their cup all day but never actually take a sip. Either we need to see the liquid/glass/container touch the lips, or some other indication, like the liquid level in a clear glass dropping through the scene. Thoros holds the flask tantalizingly throughout the trot, but when he lifts it up his horse has swerved him out of frame. In the next cut, he appears to be just standing there looking at the farmhouse. -nyan
alicehanners and bookworm13457 like this
0:00
(+0)
Thoros of Myr:
Occurs at 44:27. Thoros asks The Hound if he would like some rum from his flask. The Hound declines, then Thoros is seen drinking rum from the flask
submitted by jgiuliano (rejected: duplicate)
jayjohnsonlive likes this
0:00
(+0)
Tyrion Lannister:
When meeting with Daenerys in Dragonstone, Tyrion can be seen holding a glass of wine and taking a drink out of it as he moves offscreen (5 min, 16 seconds into episode) and should receive points for a glass of wine consumed.
submitted by mattschweiger13 (rejected)
yiming19, hkeseyan, alicehanners, klov3r like this
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Screencap: http://imgur.com/Nf28pJm -yiming19
nyan likes this -
Good find, I didn't even notice the cup on either of my first two rewatches. To be consistent with earlier rulings, though, I think that screencap is as close as we get - Tyrion walks off screen with the cup in hand and perhaps just barely raises it - we definitely never see an on-screen drink. Like the earlier Thoros non-score (http://fantasora.com/event/3137), we'll keep with requiring that we see lips touch the cup. -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this
39:55
(+5)
Thoros of Myr:
Jon pours one out for their homie Thoros, providing fuel with which to cremate the body.
(Glass of Wine Consumed)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
jake.kmiech and Lem Lemoncake like this
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This seems pretty suspect. Would we give someone points if they spit out a mouthful of wine? Or is swallowing required? If it's the former (which I don't think it ought to be), then we just need a little splash to have made it into his mouth. If it's the latter, then this should not score. -jedjackoway
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Precedent seems to be that it has to touch the mouth/enter the mouth -jake.kmiech
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Yeah, the closest edge case we had was from last season, when Septa Unella gets waterboarded with wine all over her face although she tries to keep her lips closed the whole time. We decided to count it because that was too fun of an event not to, so I think the criteria stands at "touches lips, but we'll accept iffy evidence for whether or not they swallowed any".
We might guess that Jon pours it towards the head side of Thoros, but we really don't see Thoros' face at all to get any confirmation. Since I've been such a stickler for the glass-to-the-lips-and-it-has-to-be-on-screen rule, out of fairness I think we'll reject this one. It's definitely much more of a stretch that all the times I discounted Thoros walking off-screen while starting to raise his flask. -nyan
emilien.raggi likes this
Deaths
0:00
(+0)
Obara Sand:
Are we no longer doing consolation points for characters who died in previous weeks? Last season we were, but it seems to have changed. Mostly I'm just curious.
submitted by nick.embrey (rejected: no more +1 per episode death consolation points starting in S7 scoring)
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Death changed to remove consolation points, but add 2 points per appearance of corpse after death scene.
That's why she got 7 the episode she died. -jedjackoway
nyan likes this
0:00
(+0)
Ellaria Sand:
Off-screen death has been discussed by the crew for Ellaria here: http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/30/game-of-thrones-ellaria-cersei/
submitted by jtrernst (rejected)
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The show-writer discussions should be considered non-canon, because it's not what they put on-screen and writers can change their minds about what to do with characters. There's no indication that there is anything immediately fatal about Ellaria's situation (unlike Tyene who was poisoned) - Cersei intends a long death for her that is probably beyond the timeline of the show's end, and we'll likely be seeing a power shift or several in King's Landing before it's all over so who knows, she might get freed or we might get a confirmation that she suicided, etc. -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this
24:53
(+5)
Captured Wight:
The captured wight is stabbed by Jon with dragonglass, as Jon demonstrates one of the two ways to kill the undead.
(Death)
submitted by jake.kmiech (approved!)
majoyce2, tdougherty93, brandonthebigB, iamjodiehuang, 3 others like this
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Why doesn't the Captured Wight get death points? -majoyce2
brandonthebigB and nyan like this -
And what happened to his lower body half? They burn his hand, dragonglass the upper body - but no one cares about the rest :O -Lem Lemoncake
nyan likes this -
Oh right, totally missed that one! Adding. -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this -
They show the corpse a few times too right? or does it have to be an entirely different scene for the corpse to get points for being shown? -brandonthebigB
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Yes, a time or location jump is needed to be considered a separate "scene" -nyan
Special
0:00
(+0)
Arya Stark:
When she tells the young soldiers, "I'm going to kill the queen." I would consider that to be mentioning someone off of her hit list.
submitted by nathan (rejected: needs to be a recital, also we're giving Arya the changing faces special)
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Points for reciting her hitlist, not simply talking about someone on it. -alicehanners
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I can agree with that argument. However, I don't see Arya reciting her hit list ever again and with Nymeria gone, I don't see her ever receiving a special throughout the season. I think reciting her hit list again and again would become repetitive to the writing. In which case, her special should be changed to masking if mentioning people on her hit list doesn't count. -nathan
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Agree it should be changed. There's a suggestion to give her Jaqen's special of removing a face. -alicehanners
Ser Vincent likes this -
Pretty likely that Nymeria will appear again now Arya is in the Riverlands. Maybe she should get points for mentioning someone on her list within the context of killing them? -N1ce And Squeezy
jake.kmiech, nathan, tbaum9842 like this
0:00
(+0)
Brienne of Tarth:
I still believe that Brienne of Tarth should receive a special point for when she knocked down Podrick, and Tormund Giantsbane gives his usual lustful stare and comments "Oh, you're a lucky man". If that's not referencing her attractiveness then I don't know what is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD3Hzz2uU5c
submitted by mdaijon (rejected)
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@nyan i see your point... that is very debate-worthy haha but it's still a reference to her attractiveness. Her attractiveness according to Tormund -mdaijon
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My feeling is that we'll restrict this to explicitly talking about her attractiveness, and not comments about how much Tormund is attracted to her. Else every line that Tormund has to or about her could count and it'd be too easy.
So if Tormund says "I fooked a bear once and even she didn't have quads as glorious as yours", he's talking directly about Brienne's attractiveness and it'll count. If Tormund says "Here's the list of unspeakable things I'd do to you, it's longer than Daenerys' list of titles", it's just about his general attraction and would not count.
We can also change the wording to "physical attractiveness" if that helps make it more black and white. The idea originally was for comments like "Brienne the Beauty". -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this -
Understood. Thanks -mdaijon
0:00
(+0)
Podrick Payne:
horrible attempt at fighting Brienne
submitted by martineza417 (rejected: OP and any of us probably gets their ass kicked by Brienne, so Pod didn't fare too badly.)
shannonferretti likes this
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Brienne did go HAM on him as soon as she saw Tormund approaching, so I think it's reasonable that Pod gets knocked out. I don't think the average person would've fared better, Pod's special is a little more for fails that any normal person wouldn't do. Like trying to cook a rabbit with its fur still on. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Jorah Mormont:
Does he still get friendzoned? It appears that the greyscale infection might be his new thing. Don't know if he should get special points everytime he takes a look at his arm or shows it to someone for the camera to see. We probably have to wait for more episodes to see if he's kept in quarantine for longer or so
submitted by Lem Lemoncake (rejected: approved new special for Jorah explaining he has greyscale, however he didn't do that this episode)
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Every time he reveals his greyscale to someone, or explains that he has it? He kind of made a habit of showing it off like a bad tattoo to everyone he met in S6. -nyan
ebkenn07 and Lem Lemoncake like this -
yeah, that's what i was thinking about as well. but i don't remember what characteristics the specials should have. i remember a discussion about them being seldom occasions for extra points or a device to make up for characters that don't score within the standard categories. -Lem Lemoncake
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It's a little of both. For characters like Hodor or Samwell it's a big part of making their scoring potential match up with their on-screen importance. Generally also, it should be "fun to watch/anticipate for" and not automatic. A good test might be, would you be interested in knowing how many times the character did X? -nyan
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Maybe instead of 'display', explicit mention of the fact he has it. -xdwxrd
nyan likes this -
At this point he's so covered in greyscale that to give him points for showing it basically means he gets points for appearing.
Maybe he gets a point for every time he does something to try and cure it? -alicehanners
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Yeah, I think we'll go with explicitly mentioning it, as Alice mentions he may not have any scenes without it going forward. -nyan
alicehanners likes this
Cersei recounts her list of enemies. "Ned Stark's bastard has been named King in the North and that murdering whore Sansa stands beside him."
submitted by alicehanners (rejected: only in-person 'bastards' will count)
tbaum9842, kimbo, kremershell, ormsbynick16, 3 others like this
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I'm trying to recall, I think we had decided that all these "references" specials have to occur in scenes including that character. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this -
Last season this scored - Episode 3: Oathbreaker 44:23 (+3) Jon Snow: Ramsay Bolton: "Pledge your banners to House Bolton. Swear loyalty to me as Warden of the North and we will fight together to destroy the bastard and all his Wildling friends." (Special) -kremershell
alicehanners and tbaum9842 like this -
Hmm yeah looks like we had two instances of this last year. I kiiiinda want to do a reversal on this and start to only count them when Jon is there. Couple of reasons: the special is about the constant references to his bastardy that Jon has to deal with, Cersei talking to Jaime half the continent away doesn't do that. Secondly, generally for these character references I don't want to keep counting them after the characters have already died and they're undraftable. -nyan
jedjackoway likes this -
I agree with nyan. It clearly states "in his presence" in the text that describes Jon Snow's special: "+1 point each time he is called a bastard in his presence" -ssantise
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Side note, I actually just added that text because I was going to finalize it this way, and it is inconsistent with how I did it in the past. -nyan
Cersei calls Jon Ned's "bastard son" when talking with Jaime
submitted by tbaum9842 (rejected: duplicate)
kimbo, ormsbynick16, brandonthebigB like this
Is referred to as "Ned Stark's bastard" becoming King in the North by Cersei during her conversation on the map of Westeros
submitted by sanford (rejected: will need to be said in Jon's presence)
0:00
(+0)
Tormund Giantsbane:
Does Tormund's line about "killing crows" need updating? Given the current situation I can't see it ever coming up again.
submitted by N1ce And Squeezy (rejected)
tbaum9842 likes this
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He's got the "gazes into Brienne's soul" now, which I think is one of the better new specials this year. -nyan
Sandor has a multiplier for "2x multiplier for actions performed while confronted by fire". This multiplier was however not applied to the points The Hound earned for Insults Delivered towards Thoros. This occurred while Thoros directly confronted The Hound with a fire
submitted by jgiuliano (rejected)
lomotan2, jake.kmiech, taylorreneegoodrich, stevenorum, 3 others like this
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thanks, applied this on the existing event -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron needs a special ability. Flat out.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: specials added, see other thread!)
lomotan2, povsky, alicehanners, jedjackoway, 7 others like this
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I kind of like the idea of whenever he uses superlative adjectives like "greatest" or "best". He likes to talk a big game but hasn't actually backed it up with anything so far. -nyan
jedjackoway, EvanWolfe, hkeseyan, emilien.raggi like this -
After episode 2 he has backed it up! Haha -easson27
nyan likes this
0:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
While responding to Jaime about him fleeing after the Greyjoy Rebellion: "If I hadn't done that, I wouldn't be the greatest captain of the fourteen seas"
(Special)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
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Referencing Euron's new special -hkeseyan
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Thanks for digging these up, saved me some time from having to look up the quotes! -nyan
hkeseyan likes this -
No problem. I'm about to dig some Ebrose ones up -hkeseyan
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@hkeseyan I'm actually on top of this one, they've already been added =D -nyan
hkeseyan likes this
0:00
(+3)
Euron Greyjoy:
Euron boasts about his fleet to Cersei: "The Iron Fleet, on the other hand, that's something else entirely. It's the greatest armada Westeros has ever seen."
(Special)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
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Referencing Euron's new special -hkeseyan
0:00
(+0)
Sam (Gilly's Baby):
A bit out of left field, BUT:
What if a point is awarded for each character for each scene in which they speak, BUT only if they are not listed in the opening credits? Scene being location change (i.e. Jaime and Cersei's transition from hall to beach counts, Hound would have two different scenes at the farmer's house because they switched to another storyline in the middle).
That would exclude the following characters for Episode 1, and the title credits would easily keep track for you:
Tyrion Lannister
Jaime Lannister
Cersei Lannister
Daenerys Targaryen
Jon Snow
Petyr Baelish
Davos Seaworth
Sansa Stark
Arya Stark
Missandei
Brienne of Tarth
Varys
Samwell Tarly
Bran Stark
Gilly
Tormund Giantsbane
Sandor Clegane (The Hound)
Jorah Mormont
It seems like, as someone pointed out, most of the smaller characters are just useless filler. This would be a really good balancing rule.
It would give points to about 15 minor characters this episode, and a single point is enough to contribute but not enough to tip the scales.
What if a point is awarded for each character for each scene in which they speak, BUT only if they are not listed in the opening credits? Scene being location change (i.e. Jaime and Cersei's transition from hall to beach counts, Hound would have two different scenes at the farmer's house because they switched to another storyline in the middle).
That would exclude the following characters for Episode 1, and the title credits would easily keep track for you:
Tyrion Lannister
Jaime Lannister
Cersei Lannister
Daenerys Targaryen
Jon Snow
Petyr Baelish
Davos Seaworth
Sansa Stark
Arya Stark
Missandei
Brienne of Tarth
Varys
Samwell Tarly
Bran Stark
Gilly
Tormund Giantsbane
Sandor Clegane (The Hound)
Jorah Mormont
It seems like, as someone pointed out, most of the smaller characters are just useless filler. This would be a really good balancing rule.
It would give points to about 15 minor characters this episode, and a single point is enough to contribute but not enough to tip the scales.
submitted by alicehanners (rejected)
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Tip the scales dramatically, I mean. It seems unfair that if someone has a team with five minor characters who have appearances and speak in their scene, they get 0 points, same as someone with five minor characters who don't show up at all. -alicehanners
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Also, this would be relatively easy to keep track of, since it's not a judgment call, it's just: were they in a scene, did they speak? +1. -alicehanners
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This seems like it could work but I think we would need to go back and count some previous episodes to get an indication of how much this would actually tip the scales. -hkeseyan
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seems to counteract the, from my perspective, wise decision to draft "Main Cast" characters. Minor characters are not expected to put up major points, so I don't think they deserve some sort of bonus or multiplier simply because they are less important players. While the scoring system isn't perfect, I don't think it appropriately addresses any imbalance -pacelli929
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Closing this out to reduce clutter, I think @pacelli929 has a good point in that it sort of buffs every character (for a council scene, Daenerys has a monologue and gets the same 1pt as a Missandei or Varys who just chimes in with a single line). It does add to the points floor, but if everyone is getting similar points that's just noise and makes the power characters a bit less interesting.
That said, I'm open to the idea that players will have their own scoring categories they'd like to count, especially if they're doing the legwork to scorekeep for that. It's a little late for S7 anyway, but I'm hoping to finally get the admin side opened up for other games and scorekeepers by the end of the year (I know, I know, I've definitely hoped for that almost as often as GRRM hopes that this will be the year The Winds of Winter gets finished). @alicehanners I'll get in touch with you when that's ready and hopefully we can open up a few more categories to experiment with in S8. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Robett Glover:
Special Suggestion: Everytime he gets absolutely wrecked by Lyanna Mormont
submitted by kevinpetsky (rejected)
shannonferretti and andrei.sias like this
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I'm fairly fundamentally against one character's special triggering another character's special unless it goes both ways. Lyanna's special is putting adults in their place, so if this was his special, EVERY time his special is triggered, so is hers. However, she can get special points without him. Not even. -alicehanners
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Clearing out some of the clutter from submitted section - doesn't seem to be a ton of popularity for this, and I think Robett Glover is a minor and generic enough character that he doesn't need a special unless he really stands out for a particular thing. -nyan
hkeseyan likes this
3:15
(+3)
Arya Stark:
Arya peels off the mask of Walder Frey to reveal herself after assassinating the host of Freys in the dining hall at the Twins.
(Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
dneanover, xdwxrd, patrick.f.reeves, nathan, 2 others like this
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@j.stainless11 I hear you, the nebulous specials are detrimental to fair scoring, at the same time implemented so the game could react better to fun stuff happening on the show. We do try to not be reactionary by adding stuff just because it happened in one episode, in this case Arya has been face changing for all of S6 so this seems like a well-established ability of hers at this point, not a one off. -nyan
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Why would this count for arya? This isn't her special and if she's already getting a changed special then other characters need updated specials ASAP. -talindsey
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I absolutely do not think that Arya should lose her Nymeria special @nathan. I would be fine with Arya adding Jaqen's old special additionally, many characters have multiple specials. I could maybe see a debate to replace the hitlist with this.
@talindsey you can argue for any character you like to get a new special, just start a new event. Your not gonna get anywhere trying to get other characters specials changed within the comments of separate character. There is currently a good debate going on about Euron's special too http://fantasora.com/event/3243 -ssantise
A new proposed special for the Mountain (adds to his existing special): points for convincing people to back down through silent intimidation.
Gregor steps in as Euron Greyjoy attempts to approach Cersei up the steps to the Iron Throne. (Special)
Gregor steps in as Euron Greyjoy attempts to approach Cersei up the steps to the Iron Throne. (Special)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
tbaum9842, as38, nathan, kayngo like this
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Meh. Isn't that just like, what his job is? That doesn't seem special.
Maybe he can get a point every time he receives a blow that would have otherwise injured someone -alicehanners
Lem Lemoncake, kimbo, tommyjames81, kmahan, 2 others like this -
I do agree that a lot of these smaller character need more ways to get points. It seems that most teams are only able to rely on two characters. Even if it's not silent intimidation, there should be something else...like stepping forward to show intimidation or even a specific reaction by the initimidated. -nathan
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I guess his job is Cersei's enforcer, but sometimes he does that violently and sometimes he just looks intimidating at someone and they cower in fear. I do agree it's almost always either violence or silent intimidation that occurs in Gregor's scenes, so I'll leave this out if people think this makes Gregor appearance an automatic score. -nyan
jake.kmiech and playabills like this
23:59
(+3)
Cersei Lannister:
Euron Greyjoy: "Ever since I was a little boy, I wanted to grow up and marry the most beautiful woman in the world, so here I am with a thousand ships and two good hands." (looks at Jaime)
(Special)
submitted by adamjfallon (approved!)
will.correa29, hindsight44, jedjackoway, taylorreneegoodrich, 2 others like this
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I need to implement the Facebook LOVE/HAHA reactions just for Alice's commentary on here. For the record there are no other admins this season, but lots of passionate players who like to debate, and that's one of the things I enjoy most about the site. Don't ever feel the need to engage into every thread though, especially if you feel like you are starting to repeat yourself, the site is all for fun and I'll definitely read through every comment and point made. -nyan
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Yeah, I get super into the debate here but at the end of the day, I'm here for the fun and appreciation of GOT. That said, I am also always right ? -alicehanners
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(Except when I'm wrong) -alicehanners
25:39
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Euron Greyjoy: "Ever since I was a little boy, I wanted to grow up and marry the most beautiful woman in the world, so here I am with a thousand ships and two good hands." (looks at Jaime)
(Special)
submitted by xdwxrd (approved!)
xdwxrd, alicehanners, taylorreneegoodrich, kayngo, 2 others like this
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Jaime doesn't have that special - he gets points for awkward gestures with his prosthetic hand. So far, only Theon gets points for references to respective amputated body parts :o -Lem Lemoncake
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You right. -xdwxrd
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But he did still reference incest there, which is Jaime's special
-kevinpetsky
nyan, hindsight44, jedjackoway like this -
I think if these are added it'd be under the incest reference, so let me know if you think this qualifies per @kevinpetsky's comment! -nyan
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IMO its both Jaime and Cerseis special. Its impossible to interpret that joke accuratley without including the incest between Jaime and Cersei. He also said it right in front of them -hindsight44
taylorreneegoodrich and jedjackoway like this -
I don't have nightmares.... -j.stainless11
30:03
(+6)
Archmaester Ebrose:
Samwell Tarly: "I asked you if, in light of what I've seen in the North, if I could have access to the restricted area of the library."
Ebrose: "That area is reserved for Maesters. Are you a Maester?"
Samwell: "No."
Ebrose: "Not a very strong proposition, is it?" (Special)
Ebrose: "That area is reserved for Maesters. Are you a Maester?"
Samwell: "No."
Ebrose: "Not a very strong proposition, is it?" (Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake likes this
34:02
(+3)
Tormund Giantsbane:
After Tormund speaks to Podrick, he returns his gaze to Brienne and approaches her.
(Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
eph630 likes this
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Give him the extra. 1 because its funny and they belong together 2 because I have a feeling he dies early defending this castle he was sent to -thomasindeglia
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"2 because I have a feeling he dies early defending this castle he was sent to"
:'(
-alicehanners
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Okay, the votes have spoken! Tormund's special will be per-gaze. We'll count a separate gaze if it's been interrupted by some event, like Tormund did here in talking to Podrick. But it needs to be a more substantial pause than blinking or being distracted for a couple of seconds. -nyan
36:09
(+3)
Ed Sheeran:
Ed leads the Lannister camp of soldiers in a song: "for hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm."
(Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
stevenorum, cari, goncalves.brian7, jedjackoway, 2 others like this
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We'll give this as consolation points for poor Ed since he had to delete his Twitter account over the cameo. -nyan
klov3r likes this -
Isn't he drinking wine throughout this scene? -cging18
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No, someone else is and hands the bottle to him so he can pass it to Arya. He never actually drinks in this scene. -klov3r
45:39
(+3)
Thoros of Myr:
Thoros conjures a magic prophecy fire to share a vision of the White Walker invasion with Sandor Clegane.
(Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
Th3 JaBBeRWoCK, xdwxrd, jake.kmiech, tbaum9842, 6 others like this
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I think Thoros deserves some wine points for his rum drinking. Don't hate because he likes to party. -craigdietz20
hawaiikman, WampaLord, pacelli929, shannonferretti like this -
Yeah... and it would help my low score this episode ;)
-hawaiikman
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@craigdietz20 I couldn't find any instances of Thoros drinking, either on horse while approaching the farm or inside the farmhouse by the fire. He certainly clutches his flask the whole time, but never brings it up to this lips (as far as I can tell). -nyan
sanford likes this
0:00
(+0)
Arya Stark:
That was Nymeria. And she cold-blooded turned down Assassin Arya because she didn't recognize her. That's an Insult.
submitted by timmyblob (rejected)
timmyblob and ssantise like this
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Meant to put this in the Insults category. -timmyblob
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She did recognize her and that's why she didn't kill her.
Regardless, turning down an offer is not an insult. -jedjackoway
nyan and goodjujumagic like this -
Uhhhh in some cultures turning down an offer is extremley insulting. -hindsight44
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Arya may have felt sad and disappointed, but definitely not insulted. -Ser Vincent
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
+1 when he tells/teaches someone something he had learned while greenseeing / tapping into the weirwood
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: New special added)
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For fear: audible gasping, heavy breathing, or screams. Just like when he went into a vision by himself and saw the Night King grab him -hkeseyan
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I like that, I think audible scream is a pretty good proxy. So it'd be something like:
Bran: "+Special points for every scene he breaks out of his tree-like trance and exhibits an emotion (visible tears, smiles showing teeth, audible laughter, audible screams)" -nyan
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I'll be honest though, I think we'll be lucky to even get this special to happen once all season. -hkeseyan
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
+1 when his inability to walk is noted
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: doesn't seem like a regular/relevant occurence at this point)
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I don't think it's come up anytime recently. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Brienne of Tarth:
Hot Pie calls her the big woman when talking to Arya
submitted by shannonferretti (rejected: only in-person 'bastards' will count)
alicehanners likes this
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We decided reference specials have to be in front of the person last week -tbaum9842
ssantise and jedjackoway like this -
Last season this scored - Episode 3: Oathbreaker 44:23 (+3) Jon Snow: Ramsay Bolton: "Pledge your banners to House Bolton. Swear loyalty to me as Warden of the North and we will fight together to destroy the bastard and all his Wildling friends." (Special) -shannonferretti
jedjackoway likes this -
Yeah, as a blanket rule all of the references will need to be said in the person's presence. See http://fantasora.com/event/3124 for further discussion. -nyan
I listened to what may have been Grey Worm's longest monolog over again and couldn't believe he did not say a single three syllable word that was not a noun. :(
submitted by Woodez (rejected)
alicehanners likes this
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Yeah I can't believe Missandei fell for such an uninspired, monosyllabic profession of love. They better start getting kinky and using supercalifreygilistic as a safe word. -nyan
Pretty sure Jon is referenced to as "Ned Stark's bastard" when melisandre is meeting with Dany
submitted by alexanderdropkin (rejected: Rule change to exclude references outside of characters presence)
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Oops didn't see the rule change. Nvm! -alexanderdropkin
0:00
(+0)
Melisandre:
When speaking to Daenerys she says her special "the night is dark and full of terrors"
submitted by ssantise (rejected)
hindsight44 likes this
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I can't actually find this line from her. The closest I've found is when she says "The Long Night is coming." Could anyone cite the lines before or after if she says this? -nyan
0:00
(+3)
Yara Greyjoy:
Yara makes a pass at Ellaria below deck as Theon watches.
(Special)
submitted by shannonferretti (approved!)
ssantise, hindsight44, Ser Vincent, pacelli929 like this
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Yara 100% deserves points for this -ssantise
shannonferretti, Ser Vincent, Woodez like this -
I think an event similar to this was submitted already -hkeseyan
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She received points for her reference on being a lesbian ("boy or girl, depends on the port"), but hasn't received any points yet for actually flirting and making out with Ellaria. -Ser Vincent
nyan and Woodez like this
0:00
(+0)
Euron Greyjoy:
Give Euron a special ability already. It's far enough in to the season for one to have been decided.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: dupe)
Used his knuckles to kill a man at the beginning of the battle.
submitted by nicholas.kim (rejected: does not appear to be McGregor)
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Unsure this is McGregor, see also: http://fantasora.com/event/3244
If anyone can find confirmation either way, that'd be great. -nyan
16:04
(+3)
Jorah Mormont:
Jorah gets examined for greyscale by Archmaester Marwyn and Samwell Tarly. He doesn't actually have any dialogue around "I have greyscale" though? Not sure this should be counted for his new special.
(Special)
submitted by nyan (rejected: will leave as explicit mentions, sadly this special is over.)
alicehanners and emilien.raggi like this
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Well, if he's cured, his new special won't be much use! D: -alicehanners
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I think we'll still get something out of it, maybe a doubly-whammy with Daenerys? "Hey Khaleesi I'm a greyscale-survivor, do I still get my Make-a-Wish? ?" -nyan
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We'll keep it as explicit mentions, sadly this special seems to be over. But it looks like he'll dive straight back into friendzoning! -nyan
16:41
(+6)
Archmaester Ebrose:
Ebrose: "Does this look like a baby to you?"
Samwell Tarly: "No."
Ebrose: "Have you studied the varying rates of Greyscale progression in infants and fully grown men?"
Samwell: "No." (Special)
Samwell Tarly: "No."
Ebrose: "Have you studied the varying rates of Greyscale progression in infants and fully grown men?"
Samwell: "No." (Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake likes this
0:00
(+0)
Sansa Stark:
Sansa seeing Bran hugs him and cries on his shoulder
submitted by adamscetin (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake, csepulveda2885, adamscetin like this
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Warm and Fuzzy Moment :) -csepulveda2885
adamscetin likes this -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKEnQCZkK8E -adamscetin
adamscetin likes this
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
He clearly referenced his warg ability to disclose what happened to sansa from many miles away.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: references the warging, but doesn't do it onscreen.)
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There are some specials above that suggest something similar, whenever Bran mentions something he saw in a warg. Leaning towards only counting when we see Bran actively warging. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
either points for revealing he is the three eyed raven or for warging ability to tell sansa her past.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: consolidating special discussion to: http://fantasora.com/event/3280)
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Bran looks into the past and describes Sansa's wedding.
submitted by loneschach.art (rejected: consolidating special discussion to: http://fantasora.com/event/3280)
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Deserves special for reliquinishing the secret that the three eyed raven died beyond the wall.
submitted by talindsey (rejected)
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Pending finalization of new "secret" rules, but mostly this one will seem to not be relevant - nobody in Westeros knew who the Three-Eyed Raven was or will have any decision-making affected by this news. -nyan
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Not sure if relinquishing a secret counts for secret points - but regarding the point about decision-making not being affected by this... Bran is the rightful Lord of Winterfell, as noted by Sansa, and it looked like she was going to cede that title to him, but Bran stating that he's the 3ER affects that obviously. If the Northerners want to follow the last trueborn male Stark, revealing this "secret" definitely affects that. -hkeseyan
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I took the submission as revealing that the original TER dying was the secret.
The fact that Bran has warg abilities could potentially be a secret, and so far he has told Sansa and noone else... but dang does it feel like it is just interesting new information without political implications. It doesn't seem Sansa can or will do anything with the info. -nyan
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that was what i was referring too. Which in my opinion means he should deserve points. -talindsey
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Welcoming Jon Snow and Davos Seaworth to Dany's throne room, Missandei recites the sheer endless amount of titles her queen has received or given herself. Are there any special points to score for eventually new titles? :)
submitted by Lem Lemoncake (rejected: Dany must say them herself)
mary.d.piccione likes this
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ah she has to mention them herself, right? -Lem Lemoncake
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Daenerys has a special, but it's worded as her saying them herself. I don't think we'll count any of these as new titles even if they haven't appeared before, they are a bit more like epiteths and not real political titles with power attached. -nyan
ssantise likes this
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Lists off her titles
submitted by mary.d.piccione (rejected: Daenerys doesn't say it herself)
shannonferretti likes this
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Missandei does this -hkeseyan
jedjackoway likes this
0:00
(+0)
Daenerys Targaryen:
Missandei lists of Danny's various titles when meeting Jon. Since Danny is a queen in her own eyes now, I don't think she will be introducing or announcing herself anymore. I believe that her special should count when others list off her titles as well.
submitted by Th3 JaBBeRWoCK (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake, jimmy.tague, jake.kmiech like this
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Like this one if Daenerys' special should require that she lists off her titles. -nyan
ssantise, hkeseyan, playabills, kevinpetsky, 2 others like this -
Like this one if Daenerys' special should be changed to include others introducing her with multiple titles. -nyan
Th3 JaBBeRWoCK and Lem Lemoncake like this -
Seems like much more support for Daenerys' special to require herself to list the titles, so we'll keep it that way. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Jorah Mormont:
He got friendzoned by sam that was scene as the handshake. ( no specification about male or female).
submitted by talindsey (rejected)
nyan and Lem Lemoncake like this
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Really? -hkeseyan
jedjackoway and nyan like this -
??? to @talindsey's credit, it would be fun to have a Hall of Fame for some of the creative reaches made in the submissions.
On a more serious note, there are definitely a lot of fun of warm, fuzzy wholesome moments that are delightful to see, but don't have a place in the current scoring.. Would it be interesting to count up a category for "happy moments"? Not sure what kinds of criteria/bounds to put on it, but generally for the scenes where it's conflict free, and everyone is mutually happy with each other. Kind of a rarity in the late-seasons Game of Thrones! -nyan
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comfort scenes :'3 -Lem Lemoncake
nyan likes this -
oh and love the submission <3 -Lem Lemoncake
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It was the first time jorah could touch another persons skin in a long while. I think the emphasis on this scene means a lot to jorah fans the world over. I'm just not sure how to score it, but agree that it is a comforting scene. -playabills
Jon surrenders longclaw to danerys.Not sure if I'm reaching here but does this activate/count as him "losing" longclaw. At least for the time being on dragonstone?
submitted by playabills (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake likes this
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We had a discussion earlier, and while this is sort of technically correct, made a rule adjustment to discount these "coat check" scenarios: http://fantasora.com/event/3288 -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Samwell Tarly:
When asked by the archmaester how he was able to cure Jorah, Sam said he just read the directions.
submitted by mary.d.piccione (rejected: dupe)
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counted here: http://fantasora.com/event/3323 -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Melisandre:
Melisandre should get secrets points for revealing varys to his death in westoros. Also, that is a reference to her visions which is her special.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: not specific/confirmable enough to be a secret)
ssantise likes this
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It becomes a little ambiguous for what's a "vision" and what's prediction or speculation, unless she explicitly talks about seeing things in the flames. I would also say prophecy is not a secret, unless we get some very specific details (like the Hound seeing Eastwatch in Thoros' flames). -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Melisandre:
I can't find my threads where I post. She deserves her special for revealing the death of her and varys. if not special that would be secret divulged to varys that he would die in westeros.
submitted by talindsey (rejected)
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We're carrying out a lengthy discussion here: http://fantasora.com/event/3319
For the special, I think we'll need some explicit references to "visions in the fire", else it's murky water between what she actually saw in the flames, versus personal beliefs versus opinions.
Secrets go to the person learning them, so that'd be Varys. It may also be excluded in this case, with the proposed criteria that the character learns factual, concrete information. -nyan
Varys to Melisandre: "If you dont mind my saying, I dont think you should return to Westeroes, im not sure you'd be safe here."
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
jedjackoway, megan.m.rabuse, jimmy.tague, jake.kmiech like this
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I don't see this as a funny line or an insult, or a threat since neither Varys nor anyone he has influence over has any reason to be hostile to her at this point. Varys is likely referring to his assumption that Jon or Davos is a threat to her safety, neither of whom Varys can make any threats on behalf of, since he has no influence over them -hkeseyan
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Varys has every reason to be hostile to her. Multiple times throughout the show Varys has made his disdain for magic and those who practice it known.
In fact i was thinking a good special change would be everytime he talks ablut how much he hates magic. In replacement for his little birds special, considering its outdated since Qyburn got the little birds. -hindsight44
nyan, Lem Lemoncake, emilien.raggi, jake.kmiech like this -
I like the idea of a Varys disdain for magic special! -nyan
andrei.sias likes this -
I read this as a pretty direct threat. -jedjackoway
alexanderdropkin and jake.kmiech like this -
Following up on the magic special, we definitely get the sense of general disgust by Varys towards Mel, I'm having some trouble coming up with a clean rule that encapsulates these:
"She once served another who wanted the Iron Throne. It didn't end well for Stannis Baratheon, did it?"
"And why do you think the Lord of Light singled out this Jon Snow? Aside from the visions you've seen in the flames, that is."
"If you don't mind my saying, I don't think you should return to Westeros.
I'm not sure you'd be safe here." -nyan
andrei.sias and pridethesaint like this
Varys met in secret with Melisandre and she mentioned him being a eunuch.
submitted by pridethesaint (rejected: secret for Melisandre, but not a secret meeting for Varys, possibly we can refine wording)
kevinpetsky likes this
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Meeting in secret, yes. I don't recall her referring to him as a eunuch, when does she do that? -hkeseyan
kevinpetsky likes this -
They met alone, yes... but don't get the sense that it was very "secretive". And yes if you can find a quote that'd be great, I also don't see it looking at the transcript. -nyan
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Well Melisandre was hiding from Jon and didnt want to be found. I feel like that is secretive enough -kevinpetsky
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Mel didnt want to be seen by Jon or Davos because she did not want her presence known. She was hiding the information of her presence because it would be caustic to relations. When Varys met with her she was literally trying to keep her presence a secret. -hindsight44
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Hmm... I get that it's a secret for Mel, sorrta. She doesn't want to be seen so she chooses not to greet Jon. But she still watches him from a cliff in plain sight, if she was desperately avoiding him and trying to keep her presence a secret, she would be hiding out in some discreet corner of Dragonstone.
The other side is that it's not a secret for Varys. He doesn't even know that Melisandre is avoiding Jon on the cliff initially, and it's really of no consequence if anyone discovers Varys on that cliff with Mel. This special was originally for the Varys sneaking around in dungeons with Ilyrio or visiting Ned while pretending to be a guard, where it's high stakes for Varys to not be caught. -nyan
Varys confronts Melisandre about not welcoming Jon Snow to Dragonstone in a private and potentially secret meeting.
submitted by dlapato (rejected)
playabills likes this
49:22
(+12)
Archmaester Ebrose:
Archmaester Ebrose: "You treated him?"
Samwell Tarly: "Yes."
Ebrose: "Who told you to treat him?"
Sam: "No one."
Ebrose: "Who forbade you, or anyone, to attempt to treat him?"
Sam: "I seem to remember you."
Ebrose: "But you treated him anyway?"
Sam: "I did, yes." (Special)
Samwell Tarly: "Yes."
Ebrose: "Who told you to treat him?"
Sam: "No one."
Ebrose: "Who forbade you, or anyone, to attempt to treat him?"
Sam: "I seem to remember you."
Ebrose: "But you treated him anyway?"
Sam: "I did, yes." (Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
hkeseyan, Lem Lemoncake, xdwxrd, Ser Vincent, 5 others like this
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what's the point of adding it if it's only 2 points per scene? When he's only in about 1 scene per episode anyway. -ssleppy
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Hodor didn't have a cap. Cercei and Tyrion don't have caps on drink points. I like the idea of his new special. -ssleppy
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So far he's scored 24pts off this Special, which leads the category but I wouldn't consider to be game-breaking. It's definitely a very good special, but still far shy of the uber powerful ones like Hodor's or Doran's. It's similar to Jon's special actually, in that he reliably gets it multiple times an episode (especially back in S1-4). -nyan
ssleppy and Lem Lemoncake like this
0:00
(+0)
Arya Stark:
There was so much discussion about Arya's list. She brings it up to Sansa and then Bran brings it up to her. She even called attention to the fact that she doesn't recite it because everyone but Cersei is already dead! I think you should either come up with a new special or count this 2x.
submitted by timmyblob (rejected)
emilien.raggi likes this
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It's tempting to see the almost-score scenes and look for ways of lowering the bar from the character having to actually do something to simply coming close to doing it. But the almost-scores are part of the entertainment value, it's not just watching the show and ticking off a checkbox that something related to hitlists happened so Arya gets points.
Arya's hitlist still has multiple characters on it (Cersei, the Mountain, Melisandre, Beric, Thoros), so recitations are very much in play. She was also given a new Special around the changing faces ability she's acquired. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
Disclosure of aryas secret list. How do thee clearly geenseeing visions not count? Just because It doesn't show his eyes roll back doesn't mean he just stumbled upon information. This should've been changed for last week as well as counted for this week.
submitted by talindsey (rejected)
emilien.raggi and hkeseyan like this
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As a special, I think we'll keep it to Bran to actively warging. Else he is info-dropping stuff from his visions multiple times in a conversation now. -nyan
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https://m.imgur.com/a/TOoBp -cyprus05
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isn't that what his special is for? I mean he can't/fight. He isn't getting points other than that. its the same thing as sam reading books except the obvious white walker kill... -talindsey
emilien.raggi and lomotan2 like this -
So in the preview for the next episode you see a swarm of ravens clearly all warged by bran will he receive points for all the ravens warged or just one? it seems that special is vague in situations like these. because he is technically warging into many different things. -talindsey
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
If he didn't greensee when he calls out arys list then why does he have the warg special? Same argument as last week with revealing sansa's past. These are not known throughout the north or seven kingdoms.
submitted by talindsey (rejected)
emilien.raggi and hkeseyan like this
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seeing this suggestion popping up a lot lately -hkeseyan
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I am seeing it, but it is a lot of the same people submitting ?
He has that special for when he does scenes with actual warging. He did tons of that last season, but unfortunately for Bran owners the writers have not given him anything to do this season. IMO his point scoring so far is fair and proportional to his actual contributions since returning south of the Wall. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
So in the preview for the next episode you see a swarm of ravens clearly all warged by bran will he receive points for all the ravens warged or just one? it seems that special is vague in situations like these. because he is technically warging into many different things.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: see discussion at: http://fantasora.com/event/3514)
talindsey and hkeseyan like this
Bronn debates with Jaime later in the battle who should use the Scorpion. The decision is made for Bronn to use it because he has two working hands.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
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meant to be under special sorry. -hindsight44
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Extended discussion on Bronn having a quality bar for his discussion of fighting strategy/tactics Special here: http://fantasora.com/event/3455
The exchange:
Jaime: "Qyburn's scorpion is over there."
Bronn: "Go get it, then."
Jaime: "I can't shoot with one hand."
I think it might've counted if the dialogue was reversed actually, but Bronn does not offer anything related to strategy/tactics in this dialogue. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Maester Wolkan:
Can he have the writing raven scrolls and reading books special as well?
submitted by talindsey (rejected: cleanup)
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i think a good special would be every time he refrences Maester Luwin -hindsight44
talindsey likes this -
Perhaps something related to timidity? He exhibited quite a lot of that while in service to the Boltons, and the Archmaesters make a point of bringing it up as well. Personally I don't get any excitement/interest from Wolkan's character name-dropping Luwin, they appear mostly incidental. -nyan
jedjackoway likes this -
I like the timidity line. I don't know how to formalize the language, but any time what is going on is too much for him seems great. -jedjackoway
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I'm thinking an opposite Special like Bran, that would be a cool break of character to see. +points for disagreeing with a Lord/Lady or refusing to carry out orders -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this
36:44
(+3)
Dickon Tarly:
Dickon: "Ser Jaime."
Jaime: "Rickon."
Dickon: "...Dickon."
Bronn: ??? (Special)
Jaime: "Rickon."
Dickon: "...Dickon."
Bronn: ??? (Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
goodjujumagic, Lem Lemoncake, csepulveda2885, Ser Vincent, 5 others like this
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The new special was added for Dickon: +Special points when someone doesn't take his name seriously -nyan
Bronn: "Get back to King's Landing."
Jaime Lannister: "I'm not abandoning my army."
Bronn: "You're the commander, not a damn infantryman. Those fuckers are about to swamp us." (Special)
Jaime Lannister: "I'm not abandoning my army."
Bronn: "You're the commander, not a damn infantryman. Those fuckers are about to swamp us." (Special)
submitted by hindsight44 (approved!)
Ser Vincent and talindsey like this
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"Get back to King's Landing. You are the Commander and not a damned Infantry-man. Those F* are about to swamp us!" -Ser Vincent
hindsight44 and jayson.the.pirate like this -
Also any update on Bronns special? He has talked alot of about fighting in episodes 4 and 5. I can think of two instances in both episodes. -hindsight44
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This one was added, though it does feel like a slight dropping of the bar. In keeping with the spirit of previous Bronn scores, I think there is some aspect to Bronn's fighting expertise/experience that went into all his score-worthy lines, which you can see in his previous scores here: http://fantasora.com/char/23/
Like with Jorah's "encyclopedia of Essos" special, there was definitely this facet of their character where they would launch into their expertise of this area and give these specific comments that you would never hear from any other character. Examples:
* "Now that is a sorry attempt at a siege. *Someone needs to teach those sad twats how to dig trenches*."
* "Have your lads start digging perimeter trenches. Set pickets every hundred yards. And work double-time on those siege towers and trebuchets."
* "You want to learn that sort of fighting? ... *All right, let's start with your footwork...*"
* "A cloak slows you down in a fight, makes it hard to move quietly. And the gold catches the light, so you're nice and easy to spot at night."
I've added in the line here because it could be argued that the statement "those fuckers are about to swamp us" is a keen military insight that is unique to Bronn. But personally I can just as easily imagine the line being said by a Randyll Tarly or a random Lannister foot soldier. -nyan
43:55
(+3)
Jaime Lannister:
Jamie uses his golden hand to block a strike from an attacking Dothraki.
(Special)
submitted by cyprus05 (approved!)
jayson.the.pirate, cyprus05, emilien.raggi, wynnch like this
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If you can find a screencap of this, that'd be wonderful! -nyan
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https://m.imgur.com/a/TOoBp -cyprus05
jedjackoway likes this -
I pasted it twice sorry, including in the wrong area. My bad, not sure if you can delete. The shot is from around 43:55, Jamie is using his hand to hold his sword upright to deflect the attack. -cyprus05
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Sweet, this is a great find! Thanks! -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
He also, is terrified once out of warg. "(gasp) ravens, we need to send out ravens."
submitted by talindsey (rejected)
hkeseyan and emilien.raggi like this
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Okay people are going to think I have Bran but the specific new verbiage I added in for fear was "audible scream" which he didn't do. He does breathe harder for a moment, it could be that he's a little scared, or just exerted himself from having to long-distance warg like that.
To keep Bran's special "special", I think the idea is that he has to break his current character and show that real human emotion. A normal character sees the NK and would freak out and scream. Perhaps Bran breathed harder for one breath, but his immediate next action is all cool and strategic, instructing Wolkan to send the ravens. -nyan
jedjackoway likes this
0:00
(+0)
Bran Stark:
He deserves points for the whole flock. No other person thus far has been able to warg into multiple things at one time.
submitted by talindsey (rejected: counted separately)
emilien.raggi and kremershell like this
0:00
(+0)
Brienne of Tarth:
55:19 Tormund Giantsbane asks Jon Snow if he brought "The big women" with him to Eastwatch.
submitted by megharr36 (rejected: Special references required to be said in the presence of the person)
megharr36, shannonferretti, orca4assasin like this
0:00
(+0)
Jorah Mormont:
can he special be amended to explaining he has cured his greyscale?
submitted by talindsey (rejected: cleanup)
emilien.raggi likes this
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I'm okay with this if people like it. It feels like a one-timer though, Dany is the only person it was important to tell. Also like the Ebrose interaction, they talk *about* his Greyscale but Jorah doesn't name-drop the disease or show it off which he was doing all S5-6. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Archmaester Ebrose:
Samwell: "Perhaps we ought to listen to what the boy has to say."
Archmaester Ebrose: "I sense a more detailed proposal is forthcoming?" (Spoken in tone of a rhetorical question)
Archmaester Ebrose: "I sense a more detailed proposal is forthcoming?" (Spoken in tone of a rhetorical question)
submitted by Ser Vincent (rejected)
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I was thinking we would exclude these Ebrose points on technical grounds that it was a statement and not a question. Like the Arya hitlist non-recital or Missandei saying Daenerys' titles for her, it mostly fits in with the spirit of the rule but it more interesting/less automatic to require the specific criteria. -nyan
hkeseyan likes this
45:27
(+3)
Tyrion Lannister:
Tyrion hands the sentimental slaver's coin to Jorah, reminiscing briefly on their slave days in Meereen before Mormont leaves for Eastwatch.
(Special)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
taichierskine, alicehanners, Lem Lemoncake, jedjackoway like this
46:49
(+3)
Samwell Tarly:
Sam reads from a book as he transcribes it onto a fresh set of paper, before handing it over to Baby Sam.
(Special)
submitted by hkeseyan (approved!)
brandonthebigB and kimbo like this
0:00
(+0)
Brienne of Tarth:
Where are the special points for Brienne when someone comments on her size/masculinity/attractiveness? Tormund has done this in several episodes.
submitted by cecilia.vy (rejected)
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So Tormund is the first person who has been genuinely positive about her attractiveness; in the past, it's all been sarcasm.
We decided these legit positive comments would not count. See precedent here: http://fantasora.com/event/3359 -jedjackoway
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The precedent is actually not about positive or negative, it's just that it has to actually comment on her physical appearance, not that Tormund has the hots for her. It's a very subtle distinction.
Also they need to be said in Brienne's presence, so the discussions between Hound and Tormund don't count because of that. -nyan
jedjackoway likes this
Receives points for Viserion's actions while under his control
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: Done)
emilien.raggi, nyan, jake.kmiech, as38, 2 others like this
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I feel like this would be a bit of a slippery slope because technically he is in control of everything. By the same principle the bear and every other animal turned should then also be point worthy for him -hindsight44
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It'll be specific to Viserion as a new special, not a general rule. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake and jedjackoway like this
0:00
(+0)
Maester Wolkan:
What about everytime he hand delivers a scroll? I know its a bit much but this guy has been in almost every episode this season and does virtually nothing. Even when Ramsey killed Roose last season he somehow managed to be completley forgettable. Atleast this would give him something.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected: cleanup)
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I would sort of argue that characters that do nothing interesting on screen are deserving of no points, but that might make a good pie-in-the-sky Special for Wolkan. +points for defying the Lord/Lady of Winterfell's orders, if he'll never manage to actually do that? -nyan
jake.kmiech likes this -
True but its not like hes doing literally nothing, he
is fulfilling his duties as Maester of Winterfell. Its just fulfilling those duties dont really fit into point worthy rules. Hes been in a majority of the episodes this season, I would say that warrants a special being made. -hindsight44
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I would argue the other Maesters like Luwin, Pycelle, Qyburn have been strong, interesting characters in their own right and have been minor players in the political game (convince points, mostly), and have had quirks in their personality that have shone through (Pycelle with his fake-walking, plus discreet sex points, and Qyburn has all kinds of cool science experts going on). For Wolkan he's just a sort of plain oatmeal character, so I think an obviously interesting Special has not come up yet.
If we made "writing raven letters" a point-worthy ability, I'd rather it be a blanket scoring category for all Maesters, otherwise it just seems like fishing for a way to give a character points. -nyan
jake.kmiech and Lem Lemoncake like this -
To be perfectly clear im fishing for points lol i feel like i made that clear in the event description. i just thought it would be good to find ways to give points to characters who get a decent amt of screen time that wield considerable amount of power but just cant find a way to be point worthy. do what u wanna do though it could create a bad precedent for future events. -hindsight44
25:49
(+3)
Beric Dondarrion:
Beric lights his sword on fire as the wight bear descends on the party.
(Special)
submitted by nyan (approved!)
Lem Lemoncake, talindsey, jake.kmiech, WampaLord like this
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It was badass, but I assume they're gonna do it in every fight, which would include some automatism as well? I liked the part where Beric lit up his sword to burn out Thoros' wound - if I understood that correctly :D So maybe a special would be points for every time lighting up a sword for non-fighting purposes. However, I have no idea if this will ever happen again.
Generally, the swordsonfire are fooken awesome, so I'd be fine with them getting points for it, even if it means to automatic extra points for every fight. -Lem Lemoncake
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I was thinking the ignition scenes where they are shown lighting it up, but not just for the flaming sword being already on. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this -
I like that special as well. -talindsey
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When he burnt Thoros' wound, it was already on fire from the fight with the bear -emilien.raggi
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I forgot I had already given Beric one for everytime he fights with the flaming sword. I'm going to just change it to the ignition - it's a cooler moment than just seeing him in the background with the sword, and the points should be the same (he had 1 fight scene without showing the ignition, but also ignited it once to burn Thoros' body which wasn't a fight). -nyan
jake.kmiech and emilien.raggi like this
0:00
(+0)
Tyrion Lannister:
His special seem outdated. I'm not sure where being denied a drink came from, that seems to have happened in maybe one or two scenes. Also he hasn't given anyone money in several seasons.
Can this be re-evaluated?
A point every time someone refers to his height, stature, dwarfism? A point every time someone refers to his Lannister heritage? etc
Can this be re-evaluated?
A point every time someone refers to his height, stature, dwarfism? A point every time someone refers to his Lannister heritage? etc
submitted by alicehanners (rejected: cleanup)
tbaum9842, alicehanners, allain.benjamin, jake.kmiech, 3 others like this
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Coins and drink denials happened a lot up until S4, when Tywin died and he left for Essos. He definitely hasn't done much of either since. I'm not sure his dwarfism comes up too much, but perhaps something along the lines of drinking or knowledge? "That's what I do, I drink and I know things." -nyan
csepulveda2885 likes this -
How about every time he councils danerys since he is the queens hand now? -playabills
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Counseling Daenerys is a slippery slope... would Davos and Qyburn and others also get similar specials? What about something that references him being a Lannister but being different from the rest of his family ("only Lannisters who count", "never trust a Lannister", etc) -hkeseyan
nyan likes this -
I'm not sure how often it'll come up, but when someone points out how often Tyrion talks? It happened in S7E3, and happened a lot in S5 with Jorah and Varys. But it's not that frequent. -nyan
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Considering Jon gets points for bastard mentions, seems fine he would get points for dwarf mentions. -xdwxrd
kevinpetsky likes this
0:00
(+0)
Theon Greyjoy:
The reek special is a bit outdated. Maybe he can get special points whenever he supports Yara? Or are we trying to cut down all specials to 1 per char anyway?
submitted by Lem Lemoncake (rejected: cleanup)
tbaum9842, eph630, hindsight44 like this
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I'm hoping we can come up with something a bit more specific or countable? "Supporting Yara" is a bit generic, and also automatic for Theon as this point. It would actually be nice for him to gain a special that is about restoring his own independence. He was kind of an abused dog for Ramsay and now a rescue dog for Yara, for the last 5 seasons. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake and playabills like this -
He sure looked like Reek last night! Also he landed special points for beinf a eunuch. Id say hes fine where he is. -hindsight44
ssantise, nyan, hkeseyan like this -
Did he? :o
He may look like Reek but I don't think he's ever gonna go by that name again, which is 1 of his 2 specials. That's what I was referring to - if we want to keep outdated specials that are most likely not gonna apply anymore ever again, or if they should be changed or removed or whatever :D -Lem Lemoncake
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It's being proposed for Bran that he'll get a special when breaking from his zombie state and showing some kind of emotion. Could we have something similar for Theon? I don't know that he's smiled in a long time. Or something like speaking out, taking a courageous stand, which he failed to do for Yara, but did back in S6 for example, when stumping for Yara in the Kingsmoot. -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this -
This sounds pretty interesting although I have no idea on which basis this could be scored. Haven't there been some forced smiles by Theon that looked really unpleasant? :D Like when he felt like people were waiting for an emotional response by him and he just forces whatever and is obviously not successful :/ -Lem Lemoncake
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There is "audible laughter" and "smiles with teeth" that could work (and probably exclude the forced ones... or maybe hilariously include them if they are really cheesily forced). -nyan
Lem Lemoncake likes this
0:00
(+0)
Tycho Nestoris:
+1 when he references closing or opening a loan
submitted by hkeseyan (rejected: cleanup)
jedjackoway and csepulveda2885 like this
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I think "references" would be a little too automatic for his character, since talking about loans is the sole purpose of any scene he's in. Are there any qualifiers for the dialogue we can think of? Or perhaps he can get a Special for each loan agreement he closes (this is already accounted for in Deals Brokered however, so it'd be more interesting to find something that's not just doubling existing scores). -nyan
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what about when he asks when the bank will receive their gold? deals brokered already covers him for when he is successful in beginning a loan so that would be redundant -hkeseyan
jake.kmiech likes this
8:11
(+3)
Jorah Mormont:
Special update proposal for Jorah: remove the "about Essos" restriction on his "servers as an encyclopedia for history/culture" special. He did the thing this episode, and since we left Essos we're unlikely to be going back there.
---
Jorah explains the purpose of the ancient dragonpit in King's Landing.
Missandei: "Why did they build it?"
Jorah: "Dragons don't understand the difference between what is theirs and what isn't. Land, livestock, children Letting them roam free around a city was a problem." (Special)
---
Jorah explains the purpose of the ancient dragonpit in King's Landing.
Missandei: "Why did they build it?"
Jorah: "Dragons don't understand the difference between what is theirs and what isn't. Land, livestock, children Letting them roam free around a city was a problem." (Special)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
jake.kmiech and emilien.raggi like this
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I feellike this would be overkill. A Westerosi advisor with knowledge of a foreign land is far different than a Westerosi advisor with knowledge of Westeros. At this point hes justt doing his job. There is no wit or really anything discernable about a high born person in Westeroes knowing the history of Westroes. He is literally just doing his job and if Missandei was standing next to Tyrion/Varys/Davos/Jon/Dany they would have all been able to share the same information. Its the same principle that Wolkan isnt getting special points for delivering raven scrolls. Its what he is expected to do and until Jorah can do this in a way that makes this unique i dont think this is point worthy. -hindsight44
hkeseyan and nyan like this -
Yeah that's definitely a good point that this line could've been dropped by anybody in the entourage, not really Jorah specific. -nyan
The Feels
0:00
(+0)
Sansa Stark:
I think the Stark children reunion is a warm fuzzy moment. Bran Arya and Sansa i think should all get points.
submitted by hindsight44 (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake likes this
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@nyan while i agree the first meeting of Sansa and Bran did not feel warm and fuzzy. This scene has no negative connotations and actually shows Sansa coming to terms with the fact her siings are bat shit crazy. Also the final scene is the three of them leisurley strolling through Winterfell, which actually set the tone of warm and fuzzy for Brienne and Pod. -hindsight44
Lem Lemoncake and nyan like this -
Ah I don't really remember that scene but this sounds like a good objection for scoring this scene, but not the initial reunions. -Lem Lemoncake
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This was a borderline one and I feel like there's still a lot of swirling definition for this category. It is a reunion, and it's definitely less awkward than the initial Sansa-Bran hug, but for me it was still a neutral state without that closure yet. They're talking about Arya's unfinished business and what Littlefinger is up to with his dagger, Bran is still in his emotionless trance. I think it'd be better if this scene is really the kind that gives your heart a little tug and makes you feel d'aww. The Podrick-Brienne exchange has that, Dany/Jorah holding hands has that for the 'shippers. If/when Bran breaks out of his trance and has a happy or sad moment with his siblings I think that'll definitely feel like a moment. But for now the Stark sibling reunion might seem like it has to be warm/fuzzy on paper, but it's not there yet.
I think though that the Sansa-Arya reunion has a little more potential for this category, as they reminiscence about their long journeys back to Winterfell. -nyan
0:00
(+0)
Sansa Stark:
The reunion at Eddard's statue was warm and fuzzy. The Stark sisters hugged!
submitted by timmyblob (rejected: cleanup)
0:00
(+0)
Arya Stark:
The reunion at Eddard's statue was warm and fuzzy. The Stark sisters hugged!
submitted by timmyblob (rejected: cleanup)
nyan likes this
Bronn saves Jaime from being burned to a crisp by Drogon. Bronn who also LOST his gold in the process of doing what was right in the moment of the battle. He's turned from a sellsword to a man who will sacrifice himself and his funds to save Jaime. That's as warm/fuzzy as it gets for Bronn.
submitted by timmyblob (rejected: cleanup)
Ser Vincent and hindsight44 like this
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Why not put life saving lives with healing a major or minor character category? Same place where Sam got points for healing jorah? If I'm talking crazy, I apologize, this is my first year in this type of league! -playabills
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But throwing Jaime off his horse into the water, isn't this an injury already? Seems to have more consequences for Jaime's physical health than other injuries we counted, such as those Brienne deals to Pod when they spar.
Especially, if this causes Jaime to transform into the Drowned God ? -Lem Lemoncake
jake.kmiech likes this -
An idea I'm thinking of is actually a split on the Politics category (after this season) - like the Jedi Knight or Mass Effect games where a character has political choices and can kind of choose a Light/Dark, Paragon/Renegade side.
So we'd split them up into:
Light Side (Politics - Honor, Paragon?):
* Convincing Argument
* New Follower
* Lives Saved (named characters only?)
* Warm Fuzzy Moments?
Dark Side (Politics - Tyrant?)
* Executive Decision
* New Prisoner
* Acts of Betrayal
Secret Discovery, House Words, New Titles/Weapons/Castles, Deals Brokered, Battle Victory, Political Rivals Eliminated would be counted for one or the other as some kind of judgment call based on whether it was a more or less honorable of an act. A basic criteria could be if the political act was achieved by threat or force, it would count on the Dark side and otherwise the Light side.
This might add a fun dimension to Politics, especially for Roto. You could load up on guys like Ned Stark who would dominate the Politics - Honor subcategory but get you nothing for the Dark side, or vice versa with a character like Littlefinger.
Also if anyone has ideas for what the Dark side subcategory should be name. I think doing Politics "honorably" or acting like a "paragon" sounds fine, but I'm struggling to find a good antonym that encompasses the dark side. -nyan
0:00
(+5)
Podrick Payne:
Starting tracking on a new category - a sort of sentimental one for the warm, fuzzy moments on the show, that are so few and far between. I'm unsure if it has good competitive use in the fantasy game, but I wanted to start tracking it from a stats and rewatching for the feels perspective.
Examples from this season might include:
S7E4: Podrick and Brienne's exchange on her fulfillment of Catelyn Stark's vow
S7E3: Jorah and Sam's bro handshake after the successful treatment of his Greyscale (Warm Fuzzy Moment)
Examples from this season might include:
S7E4: Podrick and Brienne's exchange on her fulfillment of Catelyn Stark's vow
S7E3: Jorah and Sam's bro handshake after the successful treatment of his Greyscale (Warm Fuzzy Moment)
submitted by nyan (rejected)
Lem Lemoncake, playabills, righteous like this
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@hkeysan same priciple. Ebrose had most special points ep3 and tied for most ep1 and that was off of one change so how can you say it doesnt effect draft value? -hindsight44
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@hindsight44 draft strategy for the entire draft, not draft value for one character. if each category is now 1/8th of the categories instead of 1/7th, then characters that are only good for one category are diminished even further, while characters that would earn points for this category are vaulted way up. this affects almost every character's projected draft spot, either in a positive or negative way, not just one character. also, even if we knew Ebrose's special beforehand, we wouldn't even know what it does to his value because we hadn't seen him do anything yet, so his draft value with no special and his draft value with a special that we know nothing about are equivalent - they are both down to speculation of a character we don't know about.
anyway, I don't play in a Roto league, and even if I did, if an alternate ruleset is allowed to discount this category, I am fine with that. however, if I did play in a Roto league, I would definitely be displeased with a new category being added halfway into the season -hkeseyan
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Lol okay, I think if we're still working through debates on a supposedly black and white category like Kills we're probably not ready to introduce another Politics-type category that is ripe for endless debate. So don't spend too much energy thinking on this one. -nyan
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